The Apple Core

Jason D. O'Grady & David Morgenstern

Apple reports problems with USB hubs causing system instability

By | March 8, 2011, 10:22pm PST

Summary: A recent Apple support note tells a tale: depending upon the particular USB setup, the placement of USB hubs, and how the keyboard and mouse are connected to the system, users may experience “unexpected behaviors” and “general system instability.” Yikes!

A recent Apple support note tells a tale: depending upon the particular USB setup, the placement of USB hubs, and how the keyboard and mouse are connected to the system, users may experience “unexpected behaviors” and “general system instability.”

Yikes!

Some third-party USB hubs and devices connected though them may disconnect unexpectedly after the computer is woken from sleep. This may cause unexpected behaviors such as general system instability within open applications, or data loss if a connected device was being used to store data from an open document. If a printer was connected through the third-party USB hub, it may not be recognized.

There are a number of variables in the issue that described in the note. And Apple says it can’t provide a list of the problem hubs.

To avoid the problem, the note suggests the following:

1. Connect all USB input devices, such as mice and keyboards, directly to a USB port on the computer or to an Apple display that is connected directly to a USB port on the computer.
2. Press the power button on the computer to wake it up instead of using an input device that is connected to a third-party USB hub.
3. Connect USB storage devices directly to a USB port on the computer to prevent third-party USB hubs from affecting them.

Now, suggestion Number 1 sounds like a good tip anyway. And Number 2 seems superfluous if you follow Number 1. Then there’s Number 3.

What is a “USB storage device?” Certainly, the note is talking about flash drives. But what about cameras? iOS devices? Audio recorders?

No idea. Perhaps clarification will follow.

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David Morgenstern has covered the Mac market and other technology segments for 20 years.

Disclosure

David Morgenstern

Freelance journalist/blogger David Morgenstern has nothing to disclose.

Biography

David Morgenstern

David Morgenstern has covered the Mac market and other technology segments for 20 years. In the recent past, he founded Ziff-Davis' Storage Supersite, served as news editor for Ziff Davis Internet and held several executive editorial positions at eWEEK. In the 1990s, David was editor of Ziff Davis' award-winning MacWEEK news publication as well as its successor title, eMediaWEEKly, which focused on multiplatform professional content creation. His byline can be found online and in print publications including CreativePro.com, Peachpit Press' Mac Bible and Popular Photography.

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RE: Apple reports problems with USB hubs causing system instability
jackson1984-24316069205748857739440257893812 11th Oct
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I don't believe it!!!! Apple with issues??
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@mike2k Anything that's connected via USB, to most all peripherals have had problems over it's history. Manufacturers can't seem to get the standards through their heads and everyone wants to make their product unique by way of deviating from those standards in some way. That includes Motherboard manufacturers and chipset makers. Talk about fragmented? ...USB hardware and firmware on their chipsets are all over the place in how they handle the same drivers. That's just pathetic and..... no wonder Apple is having problems with 3rd party USB hubs!
@Monarky

I've seen PCs BSOD from a bad USB hub or device. I've see PC motherboard fry when a liquid was spilled on a usb mouse, and once when liquid was spilled on a USB Hub. And I've seen Macs Kernel Panic with a bad USB device/hub as well.

This is not something indigenous to apple. The problem is the manufacturers, just like Monarky said. They don't adhear to the standard and their devices don't play well with others. So in reality, everyone has problems with 3rd party USB hubs.
Deleted
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@Monarky "Self-Serving Bias"....go read the definition.
@mike2k that should read, I don't believe it, Apple admitting to a problem?
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@Peter Perry It's happened before, them admitting issues is not really news ya know.
@Peter Perry - I believe it says ...problems with USB hubs causing system instability. If the fix is to plug directly into the machine, then the problem seems to be outside the realm of Apple's responsibility. With that said, I am having issues with my external backup drive and iPhone plugged thru a hub.
@Peter Perry

That is hard to believe. I wonder how many user complaints were deleted from the Apple forums before they admitted to this problem.
@Peter Perry It's only a half admission. They're still blaming a third party. Nothing new about that behavior.
@mike2k it is because you did not buy an Apple hub. they probably have code in their OS that says if it is not Apple - kill trhe machine and say you need to buy our more expensive hardware .
@stevejg61 No need to add code to the OS just make the hardware sensitive enough, that any variation from rigid Apple specifications throws a monkey wrench into the works! Then sit back and tell people it is third party hubs, so they are forced to buy Apple hardware that is spot on to the specifications. Oh and a lot more expensive also!
@stevejg61 Apple does not make USB hubs.
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@stevejg61 yes and like antenna gate, instead of figuring out how to fix the issue, they suggest you dont use a USB hub.... god I hate apple.....
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God, some of you Apple haters are...
godsfault 10th Mar 2011
@stevejg61 pathetic. But, some day you won't be teenagers anymore and your teenage opinions on Apple will merely be an embarrassment to you and not a source of amusement to others.
@mike2k
What if Apples were used in the real world for real work?
@kd5auq

They are. I use them, exclusively. I've had no problem with third party hubs, but then I don't use the hub for critical attachments, and I unplug those I do use when not in use.
@kd5auq
I have used only Apples for over twenty years, for real work. I have a couple of PCs too, the kids love playing games on them. Apple really sucks for games. No laser cannons or steering wheels. And when the PC gets a virus, just get a new one. I have had problems with third party hubs. Follow the recommendations and you won't have these issues.
@kd5auq

They are - you fool!!!

What if the PCs with viruses were used instead? Maybe spam would be sent around the world in large numbers?

Maybe Infrastructure would be at risk from viruses that target it directly?

Sure, Apple does have issues from time to time - and yes they do admit it regularly.

But PC problem have been a source of much income for me, most of it I turn down now because I can't stand the stupidity of it.

i prefer to stay sane and not spend my time solving the stupidity over and over again.

If you like the madness of repeating the mistakes then go for it!!!
@mike2k
Lol yeah right. Its the usb devices fault not the apple its connected to and the reason you can't make calls on the iphone is because your holding it in your hand wrong lol Apple never takes responsibility for its own issues or failures.
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@Fletchguy

If I am out and I have a moment and I am bored I play antennagate with my iPhone 4.

I have not been able to replicate reliably any issue with the antenna and the way I hold the phone.

I have tried all combinations of covering the gaps, either individually or all gaps at once.

I can report 100% that covering any gap or combination of gaps with a hand or skin is not a way to drop the signal.

So get over yourself you bloggers who make claims about devices they do not have - you are speaking crap.

Yes - I can block the signal by holding a phone the wrong way - that phone is my Sony-Ericsson K750i.

I can reduce the signal on my iPhone 3GS by covering the front and back at the right place also - but it is hard to find the right place.

I can increase the reception of my iPhone 4 by adding my body to the antenna by holding it. I have much less success in reducing the signal on the iPhone 4 by holding it than I do increasing the signal on it - or reducing the signal on another device.


For completeness I just tested shorting with metal - and yes, once the signal dropped by 1 bar - but every other time in the same location and under the same conditions the signal did not drop at all.

What I have found is that other factors than shorting the gap are much more likely to cause a loss of signal. The factors that are more relevant are things such as a very small change in position or angle, and changes in my body position or other external factors.

So as for the antenna issue - what Steve Jobs issued was advice on how to use a any mobile phone. If you do not understand the issues of mobile phones then do not comment.

To misrepresent the situation to attack Apple is just plain misleading and deceptive, or should I blame ignorance instead?

So you go take responsibility for your ignorance and admit you have no idea and are just repeating other people's lies!!!

If you cannot accept responsibility for your actions then do not throw stones.
@mike2k

More Apple scare tactics. If you use USB, the terrorists win.
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This is News?
tomogden 8th Mar 2011
Get real. USB hubs have had issues since day-1 10 years ago.
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@tomogden yep, not to mention scsi. usb-storage? hd?
@tomogden - the difference is, Apple and its customers advertise the thing and saying how "it just works". Therefore, there is a legitimate issue. At least with Apple's credibility. In short, people need to see through marketing drivel. Good luck.
@HypnoToad72
Mine just works. It's no surprise, plug in a shoddy peripheral and you have problems. Not difficult to understand.
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@HypnoToad72

Yes, it just works in most cases without the crap that Windows inflicts on the user.

I doubt that any sane person tells you that it just works because they mean that any combination of hardware and software attached will just work.

I think cars just start when you turn the key and will run smoothly - so sue me when your car does not run smoothly with incompatible petrol - just try it!!!

Or post some stupid blog saying:

'Car drivers say that cars just work - so let's laugh at them because Ford advised not using E10 fuel in the F100s, clearly car drivers are stupid in thinking that cars are easier to run than horses!!!'
@tomogden not on my PC
Perhaps if there were four USB ports on a MacBook Pro, one would not have to use a hub, but it is necessary for me - my iPhone, one of my 3 iPods, my TwelveSouth BassJump and my portable 1TB drive - I really have no choice.
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Good point
Will Farrell 9th Mar 2011
@mixedupfiles
Remove the need to use a USB hub.
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@Will Farrell I would need six of 'em not four. Perhaps Apple should just fill the back and sides with ports then I'm sure your PC guys would start loving Apple. Right?
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I rarely use Mass storage via USB
jacarter3 9th Mar 2011
@mixedupfiles

unless it's a thumb drive and then only very temporarily to copy a few files that are passed to a colleague. Large storage devices ALWAYS are connected using FireWire 800 for speed reasons when storing large chunks of data for archival reasons.

Also, this issue is common and not really news worthy. It pertains to every OS I have ever used including Win 7. I always disconnect all USB devices before closing the MBP lid to put it to sleep.

More ports would be very nice but I doubt that that would really obviate this issue. The devices themselves and not just the hub can be the real issue.
@mixedupfiles
I have two USB hooked up to my Mac Pro and have never had a bit of trouble with either one of them. The USB devices are usually turned off except when they are actually needed. If a USB device, such as a disk drive or scanner does not come up, usually power cycling that device will make it work. The computer has never crashed at any time for any reason.
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The problem is not unique to Apple, it happens on Windows systems as well. Some of the USB controller chip designers didn't cover all the bases in terms of sleep/wake and resynchronization. I learned a long time ago not to plug external hard drives into USB hubs except on a very temporary basis.
I'm back to using strictly a laptop as my main computer now, but when I still had my Mac Mini connected to my 24 inch LED Cinema Display, my keyboard would simply go on the fritz and randomly stop working. The lights would flash in unison and then it would come back a few moments later. The keyboard WAS an IBM because I liked the way it felt to type on, but it was plugged in exactly as Apple dictates and it still behaved strangely. Never had trouble with that KB on any other machine. I knew something was up.
@Playdrv4me

How is this the same issue?

Clearly the KB is having some USB driver issue - and not an issue related to hubs.

I knew something was up. it is - but what is not at all clear from your post, except that it is not a hub related issue and not connected to this article.
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Magic Jack
Robert Hahn 9th Mar 2011
Magic Jack -- which looks like two USB storage devices to Windows -- does this on my Windows 7/64 system. After every sleep, I have to disconnect it and reconnect it; about a quarter of the time Windows 7 BSODs.
0 Votes
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Windows users have has to deal with this issue as well - this is hardly an issue unique to Apple... for "critical" things such as external hard drives I have to connect them directly to my PC, some accessories I'm able to connect to my AC powered USB hub with no issues but for some reason I'm not able to plug the external drives into the hub and have them recognized.
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non-solution. Thnx Apple
scottsworld 9th Mar 2011
perhaps, if this is the solution, then Apple just MIGHT consider putting some more damn USB ports on their products!! They have been lacking for years. der.
PS- i note that their next 'answer' will no doubt be, "Thunderbolt is all you need"! urgh.
Weird. I've been using a Belkin USB Hub forever. Never a glitch. Apple admits to problems frequently enough. Their admissions are much more frequent than my difficulties. Of course, if you just hate Apple any excuse at all will do to enter the flamewar.
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I've seen Belkin hubs go bad...
i8thecat 9th Mar 2011
@Rip Ragged

Not as often as I have seen others go bad...

Some people are cheep and sometimes you get what you pay for. Cheep hubs usually provide a cheep performance.
I have been having all sorts of these types of problems. One thing that I noticed is the problem is worse if I power the external USB hub. If I use the same hub unpowered I still have instability but not full out lock-ups that I see when the hub is powered.
While I have seen issues with specific brands and types of USB hubs, I have not run into a bsod from one.
Running Win7/64 in a couple of notebooks.
Best I like is an APC I picked up on Amazon. Works great with all my machines.... btw: I usually get a powered hub.

To minimize the wear and tear on the device slots, I usually hook most of my peripherals via the hub.
happy
Manufacturer's of crap hubs are to blame. USB is just awful anyway, only a total moron would add more USB ports with a hub.
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Sometimes it's the only option...
i8thecat 9th Mar 2011
@james347

If someone has 4 USB devices to run and only 3 ports, a hub is the only way to get all 4 working. (granted in real world usage, a lowly firewire 400 is only 20 times faster than any USB 2 port).

One of the things that is so attractive about lightpeak technology is that future computers will only need one lightpeak port. A hub will plug into that port and you will be able to plug everything into that port including multiple monitors, hard drives, keyboard, mouse, network, printers, etc.
No, No, No... the answer is simple. Stop buying other people's HUBs an buy ours!

http://www.amazon.com/Mac-Mini-USB-2-0-4PT/dp/B0009VU7BM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1299684522&sr=8-1
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That's a Belkin hub brainiac...
i8thecat 9th Mar 2011
@Badgered

How does that foot taste? Mmmm Mmmm Good???
@i8thecat

Needs a little salt.
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Maybe Apple should add more USB ports
jscott418 9th Mar 2011
It would be bice if Apple would stop worrying about looks and start putting more USB ports on its computers. They used to have two on a corded Keyboard. But then they went to blutooth keyboards. No excuse not to have more USB ports.
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It's a Hub Issue, Not Apple
Brick Tamland 9th Mar 2011
I've had several hubs screw the pooch in Windows before...you have it running fine on one machine, then move it to another and the system goes haywire....it's the nonstandardization of the protocol, and it's even worse if you install an off-brand USB hub from your local PC shop...

I purchased one for my 64-bit gaming server so I could have a hub on top of it, the entire system would lock at random for no reason even if nothing was plugged into the hub...removed the hub, rebooted, and it worked fine, then went out and got an actual brand-name hub.

Just beware of these cheaply-made computer peripherals, it's truly you get what you pay for.
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RE: Apple reports problems with USB hubs causing system instability
jackson1984-24316069205748857739440257893812 11th Oct
I reebok jerseys acknowledge your wp website template, precisely wherever would you find it thru?

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