The Apple Core

Jason D. O'Grady & David Morgenstern

Apple’s Blu-ray fiasco: the iTunes conflict

By | February 2, 2010, 9:34am PST

Summary: Call me a conspiracy theorist, but Blu-Ray is on a collision course with iTunes and something’s got to give.

http://www.daveonfilm.com/pics/blu-ray-logo.jpgAs a parent one of the first things you’ll come to know and love is Disney movies. Like it or not, if you have kids, Disney will be in your future. This was my foray into Blu-ray.

My old beater DVD player was getting long in the tooth and was donated to my mother-in-law, making a nice spot in my home entertainment cabinet which is now occupied by a new Samsung BD-P3600 ($219 from Amazon) Blu-ray player. It’s pretty sweet piece of kit with 1080p, Divx and the ability to stream Blockbuster, Netflix, YouTube and Pandora.

Despite the wheezing coming from my trusty DVD player, it didn’t need to be replaced. It was my daughters love of Cars and Finding Nemo that hastened its demise. (While ‘Nemo isn’t on Blu-Ray yet, Cars is and it’s fantastic.) My logic was that if I’m going to purchase a movie that my daughter will re-watch a million times, I’ll be damned if I’m going to buy old tech. I buy few movies personally, save for the entire Monty Python catalog, this decision was all about the Disney.

Despite the hype about downloadable/streamable movies, they don’t look as good as Blu-ray and there’s something to be said for being able to play a movie right now – especially when kids are involved. And there’s no substitute for the tactile nature of a Blu-ray disc’s case, its cover art allows kids (and adults) to quickly browse and select a title based on the packaging.

Apple’s shun of Blu-ray makes no sense. It joined the Blu-Ray association in 2005 yet it ships millions of antiquated “SuperDrives” in it’s Mac Pro, iMac, MacBook and Mac mini each year. What gives?

The answer, after the jump…

Jobs famously called Blu-ray a “bag of hurt” in October 2008 stating that Apple’s “waiting till things settle down and Blu-ray takes off in the marketplace.” After the iPad announcement in January 2010 Steve Jobs toed the company line, reportedly telling his staff that the company is taking a “wait and see” approach to Blu-ray, waiting to implement it until Blu-ray sales “take off.”

If Jobs opposes optical discs idealogically because he thinks that everything should move to the cloud, or some other happy horsepucky, I’d support him. I’ve previously written that a case can be made for ditching the optical drive completely (much like Apple did with the floppy in 1998).

But that’s not what Jobs is saying. He keeps trotting out the same tired excuse that there isn’t a big enough market in Blu-ray yet. Really? The number of households with Blu-ray players increased 76 percent, to 17 million in 2009. Take off? I think that the Blu-ray horse has left the barn.

The elephant in the room is iTunes. The Apple content juggernaut allows you to buy and rent movies, TV shows and music (natch). More importantly, Apple gets a cut of every sale and controls the entire process. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like, but Blu-ray is on a collision course with iTunes and something’s got to give.

It’s pretty simple actually, if Apple releases a new Mac with a lame “SuperDrive” it’ll be obvious that Apple isn’t supporting Blu-ray because of its inherent conflict with iTunes, (a.k.a the Apple lock-in that I wrote about yesterday. Not because Blu-ray hasn’t “taken off.” Apple should come clean with its customers and not insult our intelligence with b.s. posturing.

What’s your take on Apple’s lack of support for Blu-ray?

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Topics

Jason O'Grady is a journalist and author specializing in mobile technology. He has published six books on Apple and mobile gadgets and his PowerPage blog has been publishing for over 15 years.

Disclosure

Jason D. O'Grady

Jason D. O'Grady is the creator and editor of O'Grady's PowerPage, which has been publishing mobile technology news since 1995. He maintains an advertising relationship with the following legacy advertisers on the PowerPage:

  • Amazon Associates
  • Google Adsense
  • Tekserve
  • Advertising on the PowerPage is brokered by a third-party agency (BackBeat Media) and he recuses himself from these negotiations.

Biography

Jason D. O'Grady

Jason D. O'Grady developed an affinity for Apple computers after using the original Lisa, and this affinity turned into a bona-fide obsession when he got the original 128 KB Macintosh in 1984.

He started writing one of the first Web sites about Apple (O'Grady's PowerPage) in 1995 and is considered to be one of the fathers of blogging. He has been a frequent speaker at the Macworld Expo conference and a member of the conference faculty. He also co-founded the first dedicated PowerBook User Group (PPUG) in the United States.

After winning a major legal battle with Apple in 2006, he set the precedent that independent journalists are entitled to the same protections under the First Amendment as members of the mainstream media.

O'Grady is the author of The Nexus One Pocket Guide, The Droid Pocket Guide, The Google Phone Pocket Guide, and The Garmin nuvi Pocket Guide (Peachpit Press), the author of Corporations That Changed the World: Apple Inc. (Greenwood Press), and a contributor to The Mac Bible (Peachpit Press). In addition, he has contributed to numerous Mac publications over the years, including MacWEEK, Macworld, and MacPower (Japan).

When he's not writing about Apple for ZDNet at The Apple Core, he enjoys spending time with his family in New Jersey.

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RE: Apple's Blu-ray fiasco: the iTunes conflict
legacyandlunacy 8th Mar 2011
Biggest disappoint for a while with Apple. In my personal life and in my job, everything would be better if I could record in HD and then archive in HD. It may be a conflict of interest (profit) for Apple, but it is a big disappointment for me.
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Kids and blue-ray
frgough 2nd Feb 2010
Come talk to me again when your kid has broken a blu-ray disk while
enjoying that "tactile" experience.
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Obviously if your kids...
bjbrock 2nd Feb 2010
are breaking discs they are out of control. Small kids need supervision. Larger kids need to know the value of the disc. Or did you break one and blame it on your kids?
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Kids often don't treat movies or video game
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh 2nd Feb 2010
discs the same way an adult would. Just like kids never took care of VHS tapes. They get taken out of the player drop on top player to sit and collect dust, and get damaged. These leads back into the Fair play debate, and the users ability to make backup copies.
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Kids don't do those things ...
RationalGuy 2nd Feb 2010
... if you teach them how to take care of their things, and hold them accountable when they don't. I still have all my VHS tapes and they are all in great condition.
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If they have attention deficit disorder leanings with hyperactivity leanings they will forget no matter what you do or say.

On the other hand a few people grow up with all their old toys intact. There living space is absolutely immaculate.

Most are in the middle.
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ADD
faxmonkey 2nd Feb 2010
Too bad this thing has become such a crutch for parents and kids.

My mom had a solution to this. It was called a BELT.
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Agree
jimboh86 3rd Feb 2010
"Go get me my belt boy" is all I needed to hear, moms of ******* america
with their ******* time outs have ruined this country
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"..called a BELT" - I agree (NT)
fireman949@... 3rd Feb 2010
(NT)
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ABUSE is what it is
rjcarlson49 3rd Feb 2010
Hope you don't have kids.
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A Belt of What, exactly?
zdnet-gregc 3rd Feb 2010
Whiskey, perhaps?

The reason people don't feel the need to take better care of their toys is because toys have gotten so cheap. And they get better and cheaper all the time. Why take immaculate care of something that you're going to replace in a few years anyway?

Sure, ADD is probably over-diagnosed, like a lot of things. But when it's real, it's a b*tch and you can't beat it out. Anyone who tries should go to jail.
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I Think He Means A Belt Of Leather
Cardhu Updated - 4th Feb 2010
and that he is absolutely serious.

Yes, deliberately striking someone with a belt is a form of whipping. That is a physical beating qualifying as abuse beyond any rational measure of "discipline."

Attention deficit with or without hyperactivity is a real brain disorder confirmed by MRI scans:

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/39/1/26.full

Genetics and neurobiology are both developing a solid scientific understanding of ADHD:

http://www.iser.com/resources/genetics-ADHD.html

which states:

"Continued research supports the likelihood that ADHD is a genetic disorder with a combination of different genes being responsible for the expression of ADHD. This includes evidence of dysfunction with respect to the cortical networks involving dopamine D4 and D5 receptors, which have been proven to be instrumental in the pathogenesis of ADHD.

"Structural abnormalities and imaging studies have also consistently supported the fact that frontal?striatal regions of the brain are very much central to the dysfunction associated with ADHD. This evidence includes neuropsychological deficits involving problems with set shifting, inhibition, working memory, planning, and sustained attention. Imaging studies have showed a volume reduction in many different areas of the brain, but particularly in the frontal and cingulate regions of the cerebrum, which are central to many of the functions and skills associated with attention and executive abilities."

The real "crutch" is conjecture and insults based purely on uneducated prejudice.
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@zdnet-gregc: It's simple really ...
RationalGuy 11th Feb 2010
"Why take immaculate care of something that you're going to replace in a few years anyway?"

You teach kids to be respectful of themselves and others. That includes their property and the property of others. If you teach kids that the world is full of disposable things that should be mistreated and then discarded, they will respect nothing.
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My favorite is . . .
JLHenry 3rd Feb 2010
When they decide they look like frisbees and wnat to see if they work like a frisbee . . . sad
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Right.
frgough 3rd Feb 2010
because accidents never happen.
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Not to mention . . .
JLHenry 3rd Feb 2010
that kids are perfect . . . .(yeah, right) . . .

It's real obvious that neither of those lame-brains have kids . . .
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hmm
Badgered 2nd Feb 2010
Come talk to me again when your kid has broken a blu-ray disk while enjoying that "tactile" experience.

Raised 3 kids, now all teenagers and I'll be darned if I can remember even one "broken" disc. Plenty of scratched ones... and those were almost exclusively Playstation and XBox discs.

What exactly are your kids doing with these discs?
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Scratching one is VERY hard.
condelirios 2nd Feb 2010
Blu-Ray discs are very, very hard to scratch, they simply don't scratch like DVDs did... They are made of a much harder material. If they get scratched it would be because some was trying hard to do so. Simply sitting it on the counter and sliding it around will do nothing to it.
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I managed to scratch a bluray disc I'd rented quite
easily. Hence why I've bought very few blurays. They
are harder to scratch than a DVD most definitely, but I
can't say that they are VERY hard to scratch.
Certainly not for kids.

I've had problems renting BD's from the local video
store where, I've observed scratching which I would not
consider problematic only to have playback issues in my
PS3. I've considered it might be my PS3, but I was
surprised that relatively small scratches could provide
playback issues.

Some discs do seem to be better than others though.
There was a BD I rented about a month ago, when I
opened it had 'massive' (in comparison to other BD's
I'd rented before which were lightly scratched that had
playback issues) and it played back perfectly. I could
seek, rewind, it wouldn't miss a beat...
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....
Badgered 3rd Feb 2010
Blu-Ray discs are very, very hard to scratch

I was referring to all discs, not just blu-ray. My kids have scratched many discs, just not broken any. I was wondering what the OP's kids were doing to break the discs.
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It's difficult to break CDs and DVDs.
GrizzledGeezer 3rd Feb 2010
I've tried (once in front of the b**** running the Microsoft Company Store). You have to nearly bend them double (really) before they break.
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There is the "physically sundered, cracked, or torn" definition, then there's the "media will no longer play back due to defects" definition.

I think the original poster was using the second definition of "It just doesn't work anymore", rather than the first definition of "WHAT?!?! I have two (or more) pieces in my hands!"
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My daughter . . .
JLHenry 3rd Feb 2010
Broke one by stepping on it when she was little, because she wanted a hug from Daddy while I was putting a DVD away . . .Even though I told her she didn't do anything wrong, she still cried for almost 15 minutes, because she 'broked' Daddy's favorite movie . . .
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Back to back gripes from Jason- did someone wake up on the wrong side of the apple?

To me optical drive- be it blu-ray or not- is meaningless. I enjoy downloads and they look just fine for me. I don't see the relavence in buying Blu-ray so my kid can see a cartoon clearer, but we all have our own OCDs.

And despite what you say in both articles, I am not bound to iTunes to supply the media I watch or listen to. I rarely purchase from iTunes yet have a library of both movies and music which I enjoy on the iTunes app with no issues...

I would rather not be forced to pay more for a computer for a drive I don't care about. The Superdrive I have in my MBP serves it purpose- to install software and handle the occasional DVD game disc- and that's enough for me...
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Contributr
pay more?
Jason D. O'Grady 2nd Feb 2010
I'm sure that BD drives can be had for almost as cheaply as "SuperDrives" in the kind of volume that Apple buys.

I think that saying BD is more expensive is a straw-man argument.

- Jason
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Freebies
phlyfumblr 2nd Feb 2010
So Apple is going to upgrade the hardware for free? I honestly don't see them ditching the Superdrive- it would most likely be a config option- which would cost additional...

Frankly I don't see the need or the benefit of Blu Ray- and from what Apple has out there, they don't seem to be heading in that direction either...
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... until you have viewed on a decent-sized 1080p HDTV but once oyu have seen it, you won't go back.
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If by decent sized...
EmperorDarius 3rd Feb 2010
...you mean over 50", then you're right. Otherwise you won't notice any
real difference between Apple's 720p and 1080p UNLESS you are very,
very close to the TV.

And I doubt that there are a lot of people willing to spend that much on
a TV.

720p remains the most practical solutions as of right now, gorgeous
quality and relatively small file size.
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50"? No...
lawgone 3rd Feb 2010
At 10 feet away you can clearly see the difference on a 42" screen. There is so much more detail in the picture whereas on the AppleTV (which I have and use) it is more smooth over. The ATV still looks good, but not nearly as good as Blu Ray. I have a 46" screen which I sit 10 ft away from and it's night and day...unless you have poor vision, which is a separate issue.
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You have sharp eyes?
EmperorDarius 3rd Feb 2010
From an article from CNET

"In our tests, we put 720p next to 1080p sets, then feed them both
the same source material from high-end Blu-ray players. We typically
watch both sets for a while, with eyes darting back and forth between
the two to look for differences in the most-detailed sections such as
hair, textures of fabric, and grassy plains.

Bottom line: It's almost always very difficult to see any difference--
especially from farther than 2m away on a 50-inch TV.

Katzmaier stands by his previous analysis: The extra sharpness
afforded by the 1080p televisions he's seen is noticeable only when
watching 1080i/1080p sources on larger screens, say 55 inches and
bigger and projectors that display wall-size pictures.
"

http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/home_av/tvs/0,39037594,39372180-
4,00.htm

So you must have some very sharp eyes, or a lot of attention to small
details, because until now we, as a family, have never noticed a
significant difference (Could also be that, since the iTunes content is
more compressed, [around 2 GB smaller than the norm] it looks worse
than uncompressed 720p)
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Agreed
jdstrong 3rd Feb 2010
You can see the difference on a 42" screen. However it is when you project it to HD 92" screen that it really comes into it's own. Very sweet!
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You can't even find 720p TVs anymore.
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BZZZZT! WRONG
terjeb@... 4th Feb 2010
You are correct to a degree, that when given excellent material, the difference between 720p and 1080p is hard to see. As with the test you quoted earlier, that is clearly true. You can see the difference between DVD and HD quite well from about 42" and up, but 720p and 1080p you do need to go high up there prob higher than 55" at normal viewing distance. With the same material.

HOWEVER. You say "Apple's 720p" and 1080p, and that is another matter entirely. 720p encoded for web has a SIGNIFICANTLY lower bitrate than what is found on a Blu-Ray disk. 720p at 5M/s is not the same as 720p at 25M/s. Not even close.

Need to be VERY clear on this. Download Apple 720p and put it on your 42" and compare it to disk-based 1080p, and the difference is EASILY visible from 10 feet away.

So, the difference between Apple's (downloadable) 720p and Blu-Ray is HUGE on any 1080p capable TV. In fact, the difference between the downloadable 1080p content out there and Blu-Ray 1080p is significant as well.

One of the best disk out there to check this out with is the Shakira Oral Fixation tour Blu-Ray. There is lots of 1080p and 720p teaser material available for it. Download it and play it on your big screen. You will see LOTS of banding and LOTS of pixelation. In the 1080p material on the Blu-Ray there is nothing of that.

I am afraid that the drive to download will win out. Afraid because that means that the material will always be sub-par. There is no way we will see 25M/s or 30M/s quality video over the net in a reasonable future. This means that there is only one way to get really good video on your TV and that is Blu-Ray or waiting hours for a 30GB download.
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Did I say hours for 30G
terjeb@... 4th Feb 2010
Make that days and weeks.
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RE:The superiority of Blu-Ray is not obvious
kunundra2003@... 3rd Feb 2010
Ive had a HD player before they killed HD now I
have a Blu-Ray player and the HD is far more
superior to blu_ray both in video and sound to bad
HD lost
0 Votes
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I agree HD was better
jimk_z 5th Feb 2010
But I think it was better not so much for the sound or video, but due to its backwards compatability with DVD players and the software for HD was so much more mature and stable then BLU-RAY.
Actually for many people even on a large screen HD TV they cant see a real big difference between BLU-RAY and a regular DVD. Especially with a player that does good conversion. It can only be somewhat obvious if you are in a Best Buy and looking at the same movie side by side on two big displays. Even then some people cant tell the difference. Its not that big a difference maker to make a lot of people want to run out and buy a blu-ray player. Also the cost of Blu-Ray movies is detrimental.
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BD Cost
ch0k3h0ld 2nd Feb 2010
Its about the royalties and licenses. Not long ago, the Sony royalty for a BD drive was 10 times the royalty for a DVD drive - $30 vs $3. It may have come down by now, but $30 additional cost per unit is ridiculous for the limited benefit offered. Jobs' comments about Blu-ray being a "bag of hurt" also referenced the complexities of the licensing. From the documents I have seen, I can assure you that the licensing agreements are also ridiculous from a legal standpoint and negotiations are not welcome. Take it or leave it says Sony. They think Blu-ray is the be all and end all. Apple wants to leave it.
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Are you for real?
blacksheepxlch 3rd Feb 2010
It is amazing how much you apple fan boyz bend and twist to apoligize for your god "Jobs"! So it is not ok for Sony to have a complex license agreement, but ok for apple to have a similar agreement to their vendors? Be real, quit trying to blame every other source, and put the blame where it belongs, squarely on the folk at apple who wish to make sure they make a large profit at the expense of their vendors and their customers! Screw apple, and jobs, and let the babies whine because some one disagrees with their cult of a company!
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Benefits of Blu-Ray
terjeb@... 4th Feb 2010
>> Frankly I don't see the need or the benefit of Blu Ray

There are a number of reasons why this may be so, some might be correctable by your optician.

With newer TVs the difference between Blu-Ray and regular DVD is significant and immediately visible on decent material. Even the difference between broadcast HD and Blu-Ray HD is readily visible.

If you want to try it out, get the Blue Planet blu-rays and watch the one about the shallow seas. On this disc there is an amount of DVD-quality footage that is up-scaled to HD (with a VERY good upscaler since it didn't have to happen in real time). Moving from HD footage to DVD footage is jarring and unpleasant.
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ask Sony
Al_nyc 2nd Feb 2010
They have their hand out for every single blu-ray player and media sold. They are the ones you can blame for the high player prices.
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Sony is indeed horrible
tikigawd 4th Feb 2010
How dare they charge licensing fees for the technology they developed.
0 Votes
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The average consumer DVD+-RW DL drive costs about $40, The average
Blu-Ray reader/writer costs around 200. Even the average combo Blu-
Ray reader/DVD writer costs around 120 or so. Considering that slim,
slot-load drives are around 30-50% more than the standard form factor
drives, you're looking at Apple raising the price of their computers
between 200 and 400 for Blu-Ray. You know why? Get this - it's
BECAUSE THEY CAN.
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....
Badgered Updated - 2nd Feb 2010
Considering that slim, slot-load drives are around 30-50% more than the standard form factor drives, you're looking at Apple raising the price of their computers between 200 and 400 for Blu-Ray.

Not exactly sure of your point... are you implying that would be a problem for Apple? If so I'm not sure why... Apple is the "high end", or at least that's what I'm told.
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He was responding to Jason O'Grady who wrote:

I'm sure that BD drives can be had for almost as cheaply as "SuperDrives" in the kind of volume that Apple buys.

I don't think it would be a problem for Apple. They're certainly NOT shy when it comes to outrageous prices.

I think Jason hit it right on the money - it's a decision based on what would benefit Apple more. Include a BD player, and they have less control over the content and how it's delivered. It'd mean iTunes would have fewer sales down the road. That hurts the Apple bottom line.
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What?
ch0k3h0ld 2nd Feb 2010
Nobody buys Blu-ray discs to watch them on a computer screen. Blu-ray just isn't a threat to iTunes regardless of what drives Apple puts in their computers. So why does Apple care? Their hardware is already expensive, why add more cost for nothing? Besides that, you think the iTunes store is only accessed by Apple hardware? I can't prove it, but I bet they sell more content to PC users, any of which can have a BD drive if they want. Your control argument just doesnt hold any water. The truth is that BD is more trouble than its worth and Jobs doesn't like it.
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Exactamundo!!!
elCharles 3rd Feb 2010
ch0k3h0ld, exactly, Blu-Ray is meant to bring theatre experience closer
to home. MacBooks and imacs are not designed as Home Theatre
Systems!!!
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Ever hear of Apple TV?
The_Omega_Man 3rd Feb 2010
I believe that AppleTV does not require one to view the Apple supplied iTunes video on a computer screen! wink
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High End?
ch0k3h0ld 2nd Feb 2010
Apple certainly is high end hardware, but blu-ray just as certainly isn't. If Apple doesn't think you need it, guess what? You probably don't. So go buy an external drive if you are determined to donate $$ to Sony.
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....
Badgered 3rd Feb 2010
If Apple doesn't think you need it, guess what? You probably don't.

Ahh yes.. Apple always knows what's best for you. Don't bother thinking for yourself, just obey.
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Biggest disappoint for a while with Apple. In my personal life and in my job, everything would be better if I could record in HD and then archive in HD. It may be a conflict of interest (profit) for Apple, but it is a big disappointment for me.

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