The Apple Core

Jason D. O'Grady & David Morgenstern

No FireWire over Ethernet; but maybe in Snow Leopard

By | October 20, 2008, 8:28am PDT

Since Apple announced the new MacBook last week sans FireWire, there’s been a backlash from the Apple community about the omission.

Users love the high-speed data protocol for things like Target Disk Mode (TDM), transferring clips from digital video cameras and for connecting to external hard drives. Mac techs love FireWire because TDM is one of the best ways to diagnose a damaged hard drive (without having to physically remove it from the computer). In fact, over 60 percent of respondents to my recent poll said that they can’t live without FireWire.

Firewire 400 came out in 1995 and has a higher sustained transfer rate than USB 2 which came out in 2000. FireWire (IEEE 1394x) is faster than USB 2 in many repsects because it has a dedicated controller and a Direct Memory Access (DMA) channel. FireWire supplies more power than USB 2 making it better for time-sensitive transfer applications. USB 2, on the other hand, is controllerless and requires CPU overhead to move data and has much higher latency compared to FireWire.

Apple, in its infinite wisdom, decided that MacBooks don’t need FireWire, and Steve Jobs claims that most camcorders are all USB, anyway. The problem is that it isn’t true. So why did Apple drop FireWire from the MacBook? Most believe that Apple doesn’t want to pay the FireWire licensing fees (believed to be around 25 cents a port) but others (like me) believe that it’s just another way to upsell you to the more expensive (US$2,000) MacBook Pro.

In a piece written before the new MacBooks were announced some were speculating that Apple could support FireWire over Ethernet if the FireWire port was indeed dropped from the new MacBook. Unfortunately it has come to light that it’s currently impossible to run FireWire over Ethernet.

While it has been possible to run IP over Firewire since Mac OS 10.3, FireWire over Ethernet is another matter altogether. FireWire is more like SATA or SCSI than Ethernet, it’s just a dumb point-to-point connection.

There is hope though.

IEEE 1394c is an extension to the FireWire standard (IEEE 1394/a/b) that would provide the ability for FireWire to run at 800Mbps over category 5 unshielded twisted pair cables. It’s still in development and just passed the first ballot. More on 1394c is available on TechRepublic.

Once the 1394c standard passes, Apple would have to implement it either onboard or via an adapter. It’s conceivable that if there’s enough backlash and demand for the US$700 port Apple could implement FireWire over Ethernet by the time Snow Leopard (Mac OS 10.6) is released.

Those carrying pitchforks and torches on their way to Cupertino need to remember that Apple is still selling the white MacBook which still has a native FireWire 400 port.

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Topics

Jason O'Grady is a journalist and author specializing in mobile technology. He has published six books on Apple and mobile gadgets and his PowerPage blog has been publishing for over 15 years.

Disclosure

Jason D. O'Grady

Jason D. O'Grady is the creator and editor of O'Grady's PowerPage, which has been publishing mobile technology news since 1995. He maintains an advertising relationship with the following legacy advertisers on the PowerPage:

  • Amazon Associates
  • Google Adsense
  • Tekserve
  • Advertising on the PowerPage is brokered by a third-party agency (BackBeat Media) and he recuses himself from these negotiations.

Biography

Jason D. O'Grady

Jason D. O'Grady developed an affinity for Apple computers after using the original Lisa, and this affinity turned into a bona-fide obsession when he got the original 128 KB Macintosh in 1984.

He started writing one of the first Web sites about Apple (O'Grady's PowerPage) in 1995 and is considered to be one of the fathers of blogging. He has been a frequent speaker at the Macworld Expo conference and a member of the conference faculty. He also co-founded the first dedicated PowerBook User Group (PPUG) in the United States.

After winning a major legal battle with Apple in 2006, he set the precedent that independent journalists are entitled to the same protections under the First Amendment as members of the mainstream media.

O'Grady is the author of The Nexus One Pocket Guide, The Droid Pocket Guide, The Google Phone Pocket Guide, and The Garmin nuvi Pocket Guide (Peachpit Press), the author of Corporations That Changed the World: Apple Inc. (Greenwood Press), and a contributor to The Mac Bible (Peachpit Press). In addition, he has contributed to numerous Mac publications over the years, including MacWEEK, Macworld, and MacPower (Japan).

When he's not writing about Apple for ZDNet at The Apple Core, he enjoys spending time with his family in New Jersey.

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RE: No FireWire over Ethernet; but maybe in Snow Leopard
jackson1984-24316069205748857739440257893812 11th Oct
I just subscribed in your RSS feed, undecided if I did it particularly despite the fact that? nfl jerseys 2012 Excellent publish with the way.
0 Votes
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License fees???
wolf_z 20th Oct 2008
"Most believe that Apple doesn?t want to pay the FireWire licensing fees (believed to be around 25 cents a port)"

Um, didn't Apple invent firewire? People pay *them*...
A few historical facts about FW:

Firewire is the Apple trademarked name for the IEEE 1394
connectivity standard adopted before the IEEE ratified it as
a standard.

Originally, to use use the name 'FireWire', you had to pay
Apple a licensing royalty. In the beginning the levied fee
was One US Dollar per port, but in 2000 they recended this
to the flat fee if one USD per device. Under the old
structure, a manufacturer of 4-port FireWire hubs would
have to pay a 5 dollar royalty on each hub (4 downstream
and 1 upstream ports); under the newer scheme, it is one
dollar flat regardless.

However, in June of 2002, the 1394 Trade Association
officially adopted the FireWire trademark as its brand
identity for the IEEE 1394 standard in what is known as a
"no-fee license agreement" from Apple. This allows the
1934 group and anything that uses 1394 to use the
FireWire trademark and logo free-of-charge.
0 Votes
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Ok...
DarbyOhara 21st Oct 2008
And your point? Apple is a conglomerate that is financially broken up into many parts. Just like the federal govt. Just because Army does work for the Air Force, don't mean it's free. Sure, it is all DoD, but they operate under different financial scenarios. I am assuming that Apple is doing the same since they have to pay a licence fee for something the company invented.
definately a mistake, as a tech for a school board, i
NNNNEEEEEDDDD FIREWIRE!

We are gonna stay clear of those laptops.
0 Votes
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Another Steve blunder
jorjitop 20th Oct 2008
While Steve Jobs has done much to resuscitate Apple, he has made his share of mistakes. It is his way, or no way. And, increasingly often, his way is not in the interests of most users.

The biggest blunders to my mind have been the MacBook Air (a victory of form over function), and the look of OS X.5 (dark and fantasy, but just plain ugly). Clearly, he should bring Firewire back. But, he won't.
0 Votes
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MacBook Air not a blunder
snberk341 Updated - 20th Oct 2008
The critics of the Air, don't get what the Air is for. For
someone who occasionally needs modest computing power
(Word processing and internet access, primarily)
everywhere they go the form factor of the Air is
perfect. For example, if you are travelling to a series of
meetings, all day, in different locations, where you may or
may not need a computer, then an Air is perfect for
throwing into a bag and forgetting about ('cause it small
and light) until you need it. And if you don't end up using
it, you aren't tired out by carrying around alot of extra
weight - both the weight of the notebook and the weight
of the larger bag that a larger notebook needs. And, if you
not a "macho man" because you happen to be my wife
(who loves her Air) or most other women, and quite a few
men - then those extra few pounds make alot of
difference.

The Air is not for you, fine. Its not meant to be a system
for the masses. Its specialist system that does what it was
designed to do very nicely.

End of Rant. And...

I'm still waiting for the FIrewire thing to sort itself out. I
have a system with FW, and won't need a replacement for
several years. Then, I'll see if Steve was correct or not. I
hope he is.... but he's not divine.
0 Votes
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Air no mistake; no firewire, a big one
dbcoyle6@... 20th Oct 2008
Total agreement. Don't have an Air, but bought one for one of
my crew. She loves it, I would not, but it's a niche machine.
The MacBook however, is NOT a niche machine, but meant to
take more market share from the mid-line Windows laptops.
And the pure advantage of firewire on all mac units was another
coupe that the PC world could not, and will never be able to
touch. With the removal of firewire now, it just makes the
MacBook that much closer to being a mid-line PC... but w/ OSX
of course. So as a result, I've canceled a purchase I was
submitting for about 10 Macbooks this fall for my labs. I'll
probably end up buying refurb white macbooks from Powermax
or something. We depend on firewire for our optical beam
tracking data systems, backup drives, and overall upkeep of our
laser lab mac flock of 20 machines. Thing is, I'm certain it's
even hardwired on the motherboard, it costs them virtually
nothing to include it, then turn certain features off etc... for
different price points on their products. Very disappointing.
0 Votes
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Sweet pickle sandwich, Apple. Just say you messed up, and re-
issue macbooks with firewire. Or offer it as a new option and say
you planned it all along. I'm sure it's on the motherboard but it's
just turned off. You'll sell a million more this year, save all that
hassle w/ shoving firewire over twisted pair or whatever (if it even
works)... save on adaptors, keep Apple customers happy... it's
win-win-win. No-brainer. Production Management Theory
101.
0 Votes
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RE: No FireWire - WTF?
loyalizer 20th Oct 2008
I am in the market for a new Powerbook (I mean
MacBookPro), But now that it seems to lack the Firewire
port I use for my HD's I think I will purchase the previous
version instead. If I am not mistaken, I thought FW800 was
backward compatible with FW400. Still I think the previous
model suits me fine. I was even contemplating a MacBook
and a Mac Mini in lieu of a MBP. But now that is absolutely
out of the question. Jobs says the video trends lean
towards USB, I thought Apple was a leader in technology
not a follower. I say, be the Shepherd not the Sheep...
0 Votes
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The Macbook Pros still have FireWire...
mrlinux Updated - 21st Oct 2008
But not the Macbooks.

Connectivity

* Built-in AirPort Extreme (802.11n)4
* Built-in Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR
* Built-in 10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet (RJ-45 connector)
* Two USB 2.0 ports
* One FireWire 800 port
* One ExpressCard/34 slot
Maybe they didn't have Firewire 3200 ready. The next iteration
might carry a Firewire 3200 port that also is backwards
compatible to Firewire 800 and 400.

Or maybe there's a Firewire adapter for the card slot?

In the end, I'm betting Jobs figures 802.11n is fast enough.

So, Steve, give us some 802.11n CD card readers!
0 Votes
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Sorry, the new MacBook doesn't have a card slot
ssaha Updated - 22nd Oct 2008
No ExpressCard/34 slot in the new Aluminum MacBook, but the MBP still has it. Apparently Steve thinks that nobody needs FireWire or expansion except power users who will fork over the big bucks for the MBP. Unfortunately, I have a school that has lots of firewire-based DV cameras that would be useless with the MacBooks, and we can't afford to purchase MBPs just for the privilege of editing video. I hope that the white MacBooks aren't just there until the stock of parts runs out.
0 Votes
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Licensing?
Chris Wiley 21st Oct 2008
Apple pays licensing to Apple for Firewire? That's brilliant!
The IEEE 1394c standard has already been approved in 2006, see http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/4231513/4231514/04231515.pdf?arnumber=4231515
The soon-to-be-expected standard IEEE 1394-2008 comprises further amendments such as FireWire 1600 and 3200.
0 Votes
+ -
As a Mac consultant, I constantly use firewire to move files
and troubleshoot hard drives.

Firewire will be sorely missed. As for firewire over
ethernet, what about all the Macs from 2000 to now? My
client will not have implemented FWoEN.

worra worra worra

--Dan
0 Votes
+ -
you don't need it!
dcsos 21st Oct 2008
Steve has spoken.
So use usb 2 disk for booting and trouble shooting intel macs...... its now already possible!
also make usb 2 work in target mode, Steve
because no way will this new "Firewire over ethernet" fly
Question to the thread....

Can a third party card be added to the almost never used Express card port to answer all of these issues?
What do I use for my video transfer and editing?
Bought a new miniDV Camcorder last year for our travels. Pity Apple has the monopoly on cute software!
I was going to buy a MacBook laptop this year with firewire, but firewire has disappeared - despite the number of people who use it for video transfers (at least).
So, not sure what to do now. Maybe I'll transition back to Windows Vista on my Toshiba and buy video software (would be cheaper than a new MacBook).
Oh yes, sold my Apple stock too. Hope for Apple's sake this is not a trend.
Steve Jobs is a smart dude, but he really needs to listen to what his customers want - it would make him smarter, Apple bigger and NASDAQ much happier......
Apple should release an small format MacBookPro to alleviate this problem with Firewire missing on the MacBook. It is stupid for Apple not to do this but my guess with the economy as it is it would be hard press to open another line.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: No FireWire over Ethernet; but maybe in Snow Leopard
jackson1984-24316069205748857739440257893812 11th Oct
I just subscribed in your RSS feed, undecided if I did it particularly despite the fact that? nfl jerseys 2012 Excellent publish with the way.

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