Busting deceptive benchmark charts (AMD this time) is necessary, but ultimately is not a solution

By | July 5, 2007, 1:50pm PDT

Yesterday, my fellow blogger George Ou (with whom I’ve sparred over the benchmarking practices of both Intel and AMD) referred to a set of comparative performance charts published by AMD as “criminal”. Reminiscent of when I referred to Intel’s benchmarking behavior as felonious, George wrote:

…..this latest round of deceptive benchmarks is so outrageous that it’s criminal. On AMD’s “Barcelona” performance page, AMD shows the following fictitious and outdated information. Apparently some of these misleading numbers are even showing up on Wall Street Journal advertisements…

His accusations have provoked a thread of comments (114 of them and growing at last count) many of which take George’s side, and a whole bunch of others that take George to task over a publication “timing” issue. Wrote CFKane:

Please double-check your facts before making wild accusations. Those graphs have not been posted just now after they announced the launch frequencies of 2.0GHz, but have been available on AMDs web site for a long time. Just google for the url and you’ll see that people have been discussing them since May.

Both George and the ZDNet readers who are ganging up on him have legitimate points. If for example, the charts and data were published months ago at a time when the newer data George refers to wasn’t yet available (be it in press briefings, WSJ ads, or whatever), I could see why readers might call George’s accusations into question. But if that’s the case, was George really out of line? I think not (hold that thought….as crazy as that sounds, I’ll tell you why in a sec). If, as George says, AMD is publishing benchmark data regarding a product that doesn’t yet exist (or that can’t be independently validated by a third party benchmarking organization), then it doesn’t matter when the benchmark was published. It’s simply not a good idea to publish that data.

The truth is that George, his supporters, and his critics have the sort of discriminating eyes that most consumers of the benchmark data in question do not. In other words, whereas George & Co. can pour through the data and weed out the hype, the chance that others less capable of analyzing the raw data will be misled is very good. Benchmark presentations shouldn’t require such discriminating eyes.  Not just to understand the timing of the data but also to discover where apples are being compared to oranges  (too often the case). If this particular flare up around benchmarking is evidence of anything, it’s that, given the current approach to publishing and policing benchmarks,  confusion is guaranteed.

This was my message to Intel when I last took it to task over benchmarking best practices which is why I was actually pleasantly surprised this past May when, during a roll-out of the latest Mobile Core 2 Duo processors, the company wisely elected to not only stick to the most recently published benchmark data, in an attempt to keep apples from being compared to oranges, it ended up comparing its newer processors to its older processors rather than to mobile processors from its competitors.  An example of one of the charts shown that day appears below and the entire presentation is available online.

intelcentrino.png

While Intel doesn’t get excused for its other benchmarking violations, this was one situation where it probably recognized what those of us with the discriminating eyes would have recognized had Intel attempted to compare the new mobile offerings to something from AMD: the comparisions might have shown Intel flattening AMD, but the credibility of the results based on timing and availability of test data would have been dubious at best.  Taking the high road and pointing out as best as it possibly could (it’s really hard to do real apples to apples comparisons) the improvements that Intel’s newer technology represented over its older gear was the right thing to do.

Still, a problem exist. No best practices are documented which means chip vendors and other companies looking to benchmark their wares are on their own to figure out what the high road is and what the best practices are.   Here for example are three best practices that might have kept the latest George Ou controversy from erupting:

  • Outdated benchmark charts are not only footnoted with the date they were published (AMD’s charts refer to the dates that data was plucked from SPEC.org), but are also watermarked with with the word “outdated” once new data becomes avaialable. An industry standard definition for “outdated” would have to be determined.
  • Current promotional pages (eg: the official performance page for AMD’s Barcelona) should always reflect the newest data available. It’s true that this could mean keeping a great many pages up to date, constantly checking to see if maybe some page contains some outdated data that could end up misleading someone. But on the same token, it’s not good PR for customers to be misled.
  • Benchmark charts should never include speculative data regarding unavailable product that can’t be independently verfied by a third party.

Is AMD the bad guy? Or is it really us? What I mean by “us” is that we as an industry have been pretty laissez-faire when it comes to benchmark publishing practices. In the 90’s we had large, well-funded, independent benchmarking organizations like ZD Labs that made it difficult if not impossible for vendors to purposely or inadvertently mislead customers, analysts, Wall St., etc. Today, most of those organization are gone and what’s left are a few watchdogs like George who, like him or not, is at least drawing attention to a problem: Each of the various benchmarking organizations (eg: SPEC.org) may have their special requirements for publishing benchmarks But that doesn’t deal with the broader issue of when and how those benchmarks get used in the context of other benchmarks. The resulting damage — again, whether purposeful or inadvertent — is material to a great many communities. Customers. Competitors. Researchers. Wall St. …. etc.

This isn’t just an AMD/Intel problem. It’s for anybody publishing benchmarks be it chipmakers, system makers, operating system makers and even companies like Apple that claim a certain amount of battery life for their devices using scenarios that aren’t even remotely close to those found in the real world.

It’s time for the industry to recognize that the longer it takes to get together and solve this problem, the longer the entire industry is actually disrespecting itself. For thing to continue the way they are going doesn’t benefit anybody. It’s not good for customers being misled. It’s not good for vendors that get nailed to the wall for deceptive practices. It’s not good for other people whether they’re recommending stock strategies or purchasing decisions. No matter how you look at it, it’s a no win situation. One that must be corrected.

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Ditto
omt66@... 8th Jul 2007
I agree.
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This will be corrected
Roger Ramjet 5th Jul 2007
just as soon as hard drive manufacturers learn what a gigabyte is . . . IOW don't hold your breath.
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They do know
Freebird54 6th Jul 2007
what a Gigabyte is. Unfortunately for us, it is not what WE think it is (or what MS, for instance, shows). I was surprised too to discover that 'offical' nomenclature was on their side in this, using the straight decimal values. Apparently we want to see GiB instead. Here are the decimal ones

http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/prefixes.html

and the binary ones (that we THOUGHT we were using)

http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html

I don't like it either, but there it is happy
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Will AMD out-flank the iPhone?
bidemytime 6th Jul 2007
Prior to the iPhone release, there were about 30 negative ZDNet articles about it, most of which were blasted by those who saw through the charade and mis-information.

I thought it would be years before ZDNet could beat that record; but this invented controversy might just do the trick.

AMD posts benchmarks that favor their products, and it's called "criminal" and an "outrage." Just for a little perspective, what Scooter Libby did was criminal and Bush's pardon of him was an outrage.
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Much ado about nothing
nfhiggs@... 6th Jul 2007
is what all this is. But to correct the above poster, there was no pardon of anyone - it was merely a commuting of a prison sentence - fines and parole still must be served. for *real* perspective, Clinton was the guy that had the pardoning party days before leaving office, pardoning a REAL criminal that was wanted by the FBI for stealing millions of dollars. Thats the definition of outrage.
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Ditto
omt66@... 8th Jul 2007
I agree.
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David Berlind's point
mhenriday 6th Jul 2007
is well taken - there is a crying need for an independent (from both manufacturers and lobbyists) standards institute which can perform objective tests on new technological products and which makes the results available to the interested public. How it should be financed and what powers, if any, it should have over manufacturers is a matter for further discussion, but the need is obvious. Otherwise we consumers, investors, et al, are reduced to relying on advertising claims we find ourselves unable to check, or the writings of people like Mr Ou, whose lack of bias is, I fear, open to question....

Henri
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ZD-Net is the bad one here.
Narg 6th Jul 2007
Sorry guys. Any IT idiot knows that marketing data is usually over-blown. Calling the police on just another outmoded chart is overkill and not news worthy. Thanks for wasting my time.
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I beg to differ
dberlind 6th Jul 2007
The question isn't whether the benchmarks are safe by "any IT idiot." Wall St. analysts to whom this benchmark data is often presented, and whose opinions affect even the smallest of investors, are not the IT idiots you speak of. The list goes on.. but to say.. Hey, don't worry about it... the public can sort this sort of thing out on their own is an offering of carte blanche and a direction we don't want to go.

db
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RTFA?
AySz88 6th Jul 2007
Thanks for not reading the article and wasting other peoples' time.
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...the above message was meant to be Re: "ZD-Net is the bad one here."
Everybody KNOWS that AMD cpus run at a quanta of lightspeed FASTER than any Intel chip. While Intel CPUS have a built-in tech that causes the speed of the CPU to actually SLOW DOWN when number crunching processes are occurring, AMD CPUS run flat out at full speed ALL the time.

It is perhaps a failing with AMD, the only failing actually, cos the chips are prone to burn out faster without adequate heat dissipation- But that is not really a shortcoming, as a new AMD chip can be bought, even today, for a fraction of a new Intel chip with the same capabilities.

But Shills like this guy, and I do not know who he really represents- Either it is Universal, the RIAA, or Microsoft in general- Now he is saying AMD has FALSE BENCHMARKS?

What utter crap!

I have a 2.2 GHZ Socket 754 K8 with 2 GB 400 MHz Ram. I Also have a 3.2 GHz P-IV, hypertrheaded, dual channeled, with both Vista and XP MCE.

Guess which system is faster. Guess which one I use for all my rendering processes? Guess which system gives me less errors?

AMD of course. I do not really hate the Intel system, I like it. But: There are several idiotic so-called anti-virus "Safeguards" built into the Intel CPU that I have had to disable at great difficulty. The AMD chip... Does not have the same so-called safeguards. THEREFORE, certain programs I use all the time will not run on the Intel chip but run marvelously on the AMD.

I find AMD superior to Intel in every way shape and form, and faster than Intel by several levels.

Besides... Regarding Benchmarking, what works for Intel does not necessarily work for AMD... Which is why most good benchmarking programs specifically detect AMD vs Intel chips and act accordingly.

I think this guy, rather than specifically Shilling for Universal like I suspected earlier, is more or less shilling for a KIND of Technological NeoFascism...

Is it not strange that Microsoft needs to know your entire life story before your damn Vista OS can be validated and activated? The handshaking that goes on during Vista Activation is just incredible. Same thing with every program that has activation and/or hasp devices that must be installed before the person who paid sometimes over 1,000 for the program can even look at it.

Well, to quote Groucho Marx... I'M AGAINST IT.

I do not believe AMD is giving us deceptive benchmarks. I believe AMD runs so much faster than Intel it is incredible, and that makes Intel Itch. Also, INTEL is directing itself to install all kinds of strangely Nazi-Like code into their new CPUs.. Things that can be used against a person, if a government were to implement certain ah... pressures on the citizens of the US. I REALLY do not care for my daily computer activities to be monitored at Langley, Va.

AMD is not really following this trend if you get my drift... Hence, in the last week, we have seen hundreds of articles against Iphones, etc: Things that do not conform to this new disturbing trend with Intel.

Last week, the Iphone really hit a nerve with all kinds of people who keep blogs here who basically suggest a kind of Technological Police Control over us, because it runs outside of security systems developed by Intel and Microsoft, who are pressuring the phone companies to conform to what they want, instead of keeping the possibilities open.

If we read articles like these, we can detect a dread undercurrent. Paranoia? Maybe, but I still prefer AMD over INTEL and I resent any implications that AMD lies to us about the quality of it's products.
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As Much as i am an AMD fan....
ivanotter 6th Jul 2007
You make all of us AMD fans LOOK bad. I am sorry, you blow this WAY out of proportion.

I love AMD because they are cheap and run well. Intel currently has the speed lead (i run both, BTW, so deal with both) and Intel for now has it. AMD is great for building a GOOD inexpensive computer.

Ranting on neo-facism in an article about benchmarking just makes you look like an idiot
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The press is at fault
rweiler@... 6th Jul 2007
As you point out, in the 'good old days', the press used to make at least some minimal effort to verify the truth and accuracy of what they are told. The journalism business has discarded any pretense of performing a public service and has put the emphasis squarely on 'business'. That means getting content almost exclusively from the vendors. In ZD's case, that even means giving a major advertiser their own journalist. To the extent that balance exists, it is through competing press releases. Were it confined to the trade press, it wouldn't be so bad, but unfortunately, the 'mainstream' press now operates the same way.

In the current instance people should just skip AMD and Intel self serving press kits and George Ou, and just go straight to their vendor of choice and find out what they can actually buy right now, for what price, and then go to www.spec.org and check out the submitted numbers keeping in mind that these are 'guaranteed not to exceed' numbers. If they have the luxury of doing so, they should get loaner machines and try out the applications that they plan to use.
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Damn right the press is at fault...
XweAponX 6th Jul 2007
Starting with ZDnet and this particular author.
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No whine zone
thetruthhurts 6th Jul 2007
When AMD's, ahem, 'leadership' quits its meglomaniac aspirations and gets back to basics then perhaps opinions will change.

AMD has no one to blame but itself for this and many other missteps in execution.

Quit whining and get back to business.
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Dear Executive Editor
Robert Hahn 6th Jul 2007
> whereas George & Co. can pour through the data and weed out the hype

It's "pore" over the data:

Pore: v.i. look concentratedly: to study something carefully and thoughtfully ? poring over a book
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While you are probably correct
Freebird54 6th Jul 2007
in your assumption of the author's intentions - perhaps he was just a little ahead of you...

After all, George does 'pour' over the data - he pours scorn on it! (or cold water, or...) happy

Let's not get too pedantic on here - it's already hard enough to get a GOOD discussion going!

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