ie8 fix
madison

Apple, not Gear, deserves the blame for iTunes crashes

By | September 17, 2008, 11:16am PDT

It’s now been a week since Apple’s botched release of iTunes 8, which caused a tidal wave of Vista crashes before it was hastily rolled back. Judging from traffic on Apple’s support forum, pulling the new Apple USB driver and replacing it with the file from iTunes 7.7 succeeded in quieting most of the complaints from most Windows users, although a handful of customers report that they’re still having problems.

In my analysis last week, I confirmed that Apple was sneaking a couple of driver updates onto the system along with the five installer packages that make up iTunes 8. The USB controller update, which is apparently used when connecting an iPod or iPhone to the system, was tagged as the one appearing on the STOP error page in most of the trouble reports on the Apple forum. That’s the one that got rolled back.

In last week’s post, I also noted that an update to the GEARAspiWDM.sys driver was installed as well. I speculated that this driver might be involved in some of the problem reports, but that turned out not to be the case. This driver had nothing to do with any of the Blue Screen of Death errors I read about. In fact, it turns out that Gear’s driver might actually be an innocent bystander in another iTunes –related support issue.

First, a little background. Gear Software sells the GEARAspi driver set (a DLL and a storage filter driver) with its GEARWorks SDK, which allows third-party developers to build apps that can communicate with CD/DVD recorders, tape drives, media jukeboxes, and other such storage devices. Apple is not the only big customer that uses these drivers; Symantec, Kodak, Cakewalk, and Siemens also use Gear’s tools to enable ripping, formatting, authoring and burning features in their software. In all, there are probably tens of millions of Windows (and Mac and Linux) users running software that incorporates the Gear driver set.

Earlier this year, reports began appearing on Gear’s forum and the Apple support boards that iTunes users were encountering a well-known (but fortunately rare) issue where the CD or DVD drive icon disappeared from the Computer window. This problem has been around in Windows XP for as long as I can remember, and even has its own Knowledge Base article, which explains the Registry tweaks that have to be performed to restore access to the MIA optical drive.

The iTunes problem, as far as I can tell, first began cropping up in March and April, and by late August 26 Gear Software had posted a plea for help in tracking down the cause of the issue, naming a pair of driver files (afs.sys and afs2k.sys) as the most likely culprits. The AFS in those file names refers to Audio File System, and the drivers in question were part of a much older CD-burning engine that, like Gear’s software, was sold to third-party developers. It wound up in some widely distributed products, including Broderbund Print Shop,  HP Memories Disk Creator, Liquid Audio, and Symantec Ghost. An HP support document specifically notes the likelihood that the AFS driver can cause crashes and explains how to delete or replace it. Oak Technology, which developed the older, apparently flawed drivers, was swallowed up several years ago by Zoran. Downloadable copies of a September 2003 release of the AFS drivers are available at Simpli Software; HP has a newer version, released in 2004.

I looked long and hard to find any signs of other recent problems involving Gear’s software and couldn’t find any, so I’m inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt here. It’s also a perfect example of the complexities of testing software on the Windows platform. I suspect most of those driver conflicts occur because users install printer and scanner software from CDs that are five years old (or older). It’s hard to imagine testing for conflicts with outdated software that was patched long ago, and yet those programs persist in the real world.

And this historical footnote: If the name Oak Technology sounds familiar, then you qualify as an old-timer. MS-DOS boot disks (created by formatting a floppy with the /s switch) typically include a real-mode CD driver called Oakcdrom.sys, which was used in conjunction with Mscdex.exe to allow access to CD drives by floppy-based installers. Same company.

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Topics

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications.

Disclosure

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is a freelance technical journalist and book author. All work that Ed does is on a contractual basis.

Since 1994, Ed has written more than 25 books about Microsoft Windows and Office. Along with various co-authors, Ed is completely responsible for the content of the books he writes. As a key part of his contractual relationship with publishers, he gives them permission to print and distribute the content he writes and to pay him a royalty based on the actual sales of those books. Ed's books written prior to fall 2011 have been distributed by Que Publishing (a division of Pearson Education) and by Microsoft Press. As of November 2011, Ed is a partner in the independent publishing company Fair Trade Digital Exchange, which exclusively publishes his books.

On occasion, Ed accepts consulting assignments. In recent years, he has worked as an expert witness in cases where his experience and knowledge of Microsoft and Microsoft Windows have been useful. In each such case, his compensation is on an hourly basis, and he is hired as a witness, not an advocate.

Ed does not own stock or have any other financial interest in Microsoft or any other software company. He owns 500 shares of stock in EMC Corporation, which was purchased before the company's acquisition of VMware. In addition, he owns 350 shares of stock in Intel Corporation, purchased more than two years ago. All stocks are held in retirement accounts for long-term growth.

Ed does not accept gifts from companies he covers. All hardware products he writes about are purchased with his own funds or are review units covered under formal loan agreements and are returned after the review is complete.

Biography

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications. He's served as editor of the U.S. edition of PC Computing and managing editor of PC World; both publications had monthly paid circulation in excess of 1 million during his tenure. He is the author of more than 25 books on Microsoft Windows and Office, including the recently released Windows 7 Inside Out.

45
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

RE: Apple, not Gear, deserves the blame for iTunes crashes
beijing2008 14th Sep
haha ive read that before its really funny happy rolex swiss replica
0 Votes
+ -
FUD mode
martin23 17th Sep 2008
Ed I am unsure why this issue deserves your third story. Not sure why you feel terms like "tidal wave" are appropriate.

You recently accused security software vendors of over egging the problem to help sell their products. So given that this issue affects only a small portion of Vista users why the big fuss.

One story with a few updates would have covered the issues. Three looks a bit like spreading FUD now that the problem has been resolved.
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
"The problem has been resolved"?
Ed Bott 17th Sep 2008
Uh, Martin, one problem has been resolved. Another problem remains. I have received multiple reports from readers who are experiencing the drive-letter issue, so I thought it was worth calling out in a separate post. I also felt it was worth mentioning my revised conclusions as to Gear's role in a separate post. Most people don't go back and read old posts looking for updates.

If you think I'm writing too much on a particular topic, please, please, please feel free to ignore those posts and go do something else.

Seriously.
0 Votes
+ -
On XP, I uninstalled
mtgarden 17th Sep 2008
the first version of iTunes 8. That wiped out both optical drives.

Fortunately, MS had an automated tool that fixed it without requiring the usual reg hacks.
0 Votes
+ -
Uh
martin23 17th Sep 2008
Seriously,

I also wonder what your motives are Ed.

I'm also sure you would rather I did not comment on your blogs. However its your option to proselytise for Microsoft, its mine to be agnostic.

I have no specific interest, or even knowledge, of ipods or itunes. It does however interest me that you felt the need to post 3 stories on the issue. I do not believe a single corporate customer is worried about the problem or even the majority of home users. I therefore have no idea why you feel it so important.

I'm sure if I did own an ipod I would be cross Apple messed up but would simply have delayed whilst someone worked out what ever teething problem they have is sorted. Or have I missed something does itunes 8 contain some key function everyone needs to download today.
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
Think again
Ed Bott 17th Sep 2008
"I do not believe a single corporate customer is worried about the problem"

Wrong. IT folks hate Apple software because they know users will install it on their company-issued PCs if allowed to, and it represents a profound security problem.
0 Votes
+ -
DING DING DING
beoz 17th Sep 2008
We specifically search and destroy iTunes. God, I hate iTunes calls (in the corporate "what the !@#$ were you thinking installing that sense).
0 Votes
+ -
better yet
rtk 17th Sep 2008
add unauthorized software installation to your company's computer acceptable use policy, and do what many companies are doing and add anything by Apple to the list of unacceptable software.
All new installations off the base image are supposed to be done by an elevated user. This protects us from idiots putting for-license-yet-not software on their machines (hello, exposure to fining)...which is why we'd be having to inventory machines anyway. We can't risk it.

It baffles me how our folks in charge of that can't get it right...sigh. Someone's messing up Active Directory rights badly there, it's pretty basic functionality. I really wish they'd fix that once and for all. Folks would also have much less My Web Search and Smiley Central and crud too...
0 Votes
+ -
re: better (@beoz)
notsofast 20th Sep 2008
I work at a Telecom company, and there's no restrictions on my computer. Perhaps there is in non-IT departments, but I doubt it. Even when I worked at a large company, I could install anything, but I did have to use a tool that elevated privileges to administrative.

But then again, our PC IT dept is lacking. I've seen brand new core-2 laptops that take a minute to open a word document (if you click on the document....very fast if you open word/excel and the do a file/open).

Can they fix it? Apparently not.
0 Votes
+ -
Profound????????
martin23 18th Sep 2008
"Wrong. IT folks hate Apple software because they know users will install it on their company-issued PCs if allowed to, and it represents a profound security problem."

I think that has to be one of the most ridiculous and inaccurate statements I have heard in years. Your claim is that Apple software is a "profound security problem". Strangely I have not met a corporate client who takes that view, the "IT folk" I know have many worries apple is not one of them. I do not recall any ever saying "I'm worried about Quicktime I hear it gives a profound security problem"

To suggest I think your views a little rabid is more than obvious. Todays Microsoft marketing FUD statement. Avoid using Apple software it represents a "profound security problem". Use only the wonderful safe Microsoft alternatives now. Oh and don't use Real Player either that also pollutes the essence of Microsoftness.
0 Votes
+ -
profound
rtk 18th Sep 2008
malware like installers and updaters, cover-ups and disinformation campaigns, and a general lack of apparent commitment to security.

Yup, Apple represents a profound security problem.
0 Votes
+ -
I tend to agree here. Apple software, while working fine on a MAC, generally causes insane amounts of issues, security wholes, etc on Windows platforms. Plus the fact that the software DEMANDS to run at startup, even after removing the offending registry entries they will come back. This sounds a lot like spyware to me.

The fact that iTunes sneaks in so many other apps during it's install and update routines, qualifies Apple as a Malware distributor.
0 Votes
+ -
Oh yes...Profound!!!!!!
Tad Diego 18th Sep 2008
...the "IT folk" I know have many worries apple is not one of them. I do not recall any ever saying "I'm worried about Quicktime I hear it gives a profound security problem"...

I'm not sure what world you live in, but as an IT Manager, I tell my folks to get rid of Apple's software as soon as we see it around here. Safari, iTunes, Quicktime, whatever -- they've all been implicated in very real, very widespread, very dangerous security holes on a Windows platform. And Apple's annoying tactic of sneaking in extra programs during an update is something I can't tolerate. Microsoft used to do the same until everyone called foul on it; now they're smart and they don't anymore (also Sony).

I can understand Apple trying to play "catch-up" and seeding the market with these illicit downloads, but that only marks them as desperate and afraid. They'll grow up someday...
0 Votes
+ -
On no
martin23 18th Sep 2008
"I tell my folks to get rid of Apple's software as soon as we see it around here. Safari, iTunes, Quicktime, whatever -- they've all been implicated in very real, very widespread, very dangerous security holes on a Windows platform."

You miss my point on two grounds. Firstly I would hope there are not that many corporates who even allow users to download their own applications so the issue if not as Ed suggests one that is likley to be profound.

The second is that you seem to be a client of FUD. Whilst your statement has some truth I could make the same claim if not worse for the equivalent MS product. IE in particular has ofren been implicated in "dangerous security holes on a Windows platform". To what extent one set of products more prone to risk that other is open to debate but to see things in such a black and white way may be being determined by preference rather than just facts?
haha ive read that before its really funny happy rolex swiss replica
0 Votes
+ -
The Accountability Gap
Harry Bardal 17th Sep 2008
Of course Apple deserves the blame. Yes, testing on the
Windows platform is much more complex than what Apple
is used to, but that's no excuse. Apple is capable of
getting a bad record for it's PC software unless it does
more testing and gets more experience.

Microsoft meanwhile is responsible for the proliferation of
open architecture through broad licensing. They have
encouraged lax development standards to speed adoption.
They have not seen fit to manage the exponential increase
of complexity. To the point where their platform bursts it's
boundaries and relies on it's teams of cognoscenti, it's
OEM partners, and it's users to accept the offloaded work.

So who's to blame? It's still Apple. No, really, I'm dead
serious. Apple still has to cobble together something out of
junkyard parts, for a function that is fundamental to a
system and should have been a built-in services for years.
Apple is, and will be accountable. It's refreshing. They are
responsible to fix it, and it's their software that should be
ditched if it's not acceptable.

If it will never be Microsoft's fault for nurturing complexity,
then it is not their "fault" for nurturing "open" either.

The double standards here are yards thick. In the midst of
calling for a "strategically limited" hardware reference spec
from Microsoft, our author is still prepared to ask us
whether we are "for freedom" (and Microsoft), or "against
it" (and Apple).

Just as Vista's rejection is about the cumulative effect of
Windows grief, any given problem is capable of now
becoming the last straw. Users see iTunes work on the
Mac. They see it fail on the PC. If there is a suspicion of
conspiracy or "software malpractice", it would be better if it
came from a more informed place. One that better
understands the virtues of the vertical integration that is
now seen as the better direction, even if it is not to be the
destination.

So does this have everything to do with the divergent
models of MS and Apple, or does it have nothing to do
with them? We'll certainly never know if the focus is always
going to be about this weeks problem, or driver files
(afs.sys and afs2k.sys). We've gone so far down the rabbit
hole that redirecting blame away from Microsoft is a
thriving cottage industry. Users meanwhile are looking for
accountability, good management, rewards rather than
punishments for license compliance. "Openness" was
always the pseudonym for "closed but huge". That shell
game has gotten old.
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
Doesn't it hurt?
Ed Bott 17th Sep 2008
Doesn't it hurt when you twist your brain around into contorted positions like that, Harry? I get a headache just reading it, and I didn't have to torture brain cells in an attempt to make it all sound logical.
0 Votes
+ -
Okay
Harry Bardal 17th Sep 2008
I was agreeing with you. Sorry if that was confusing.

I just extend the arc of your argument. A principled stance
on software malpractice sees Apple's flawed Windows-
based jukebox, resented, patched, or ditched off PCs in
favor of alternatives. As it should be.

It helps explain Vista resentment. So Vista is working now,
why the illogical "Mojave" response? People are crazy? No,
people are complex, infinitely more so than computers in
fact. The irony? For years folks have had bad drivers. Take
a bow.

Like I say, you've been diligently chronicling the abuse of
Windows users by Developers, Hackers, OEMs, and
Microsoft themselves. There have been weekly calls for forbearance. Apple is this week's flavor. Evidence that
Windows may be inevitable. There will never be an
indication that the platform is the larger and endemic
problem. There will never be a concession that another
model might provide a better experience, or is even worth
looking into. I'm just thrilled that Apple is on the radar to
some small extent, and look forward to the dissection of
any other failures they have on the PC. One thing I can be
sure of we won't hear of any successes.
0 Votes
+ -
You sink to ever lower lows!
ShadeTree Updated - 17th Sep 2008
To try and contrive this as Microsoft's fault is laughable. Do you really think anyone takes you seriously?
0 Votes
+ -
Missed a Bit
Harry Bardal 17th Sep 2008
I think you missed a bit where I actually said it was Apple's
fault.

It's Apples fault.

There it is again! I suppose if you're at odds with any of my
past declarative statements, you'll be at odds with this one
on principle, but at least take it under consideration.

Speaking of principles, ditch the jukebox if you're
principled, then apply the same principled demands for accountability to all the places where Apple isn't, and that's
a good many places. Let me know how that goes. Nothing
makes me angrier than software that sporks itself or your
machine after installing or after deinstalling. Do you need
further clarification?

Do driver issues ring any other bells with you, or are we to
continue with context-free workshops on this week's PC
hassle? If ever, there has been a precedent for driver
related problems on a Windows box, let's put it in context.
That context is... that paragon of virtue... open
architecture. Sorry if that blows your mind.
0 Votes
+ -
You need to go into politics.
TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827 17th Sep 2008
Apple completely, um... well, mix and match "pooch, the, screwed, Apple and totally" in various ways, you will hit upon the right combination. The rant following would do any politician proud who wanted to use a lot of words, obfuscate everything and just leave the reader wondering "what" after the nod off and wake back up.

What, seriously, were you trying to say? I get the gist of one point was Vista is too complicated? Well, if it's too complicated for Apple to write and test on, then don't. Seems like a simple solution.

TripleII
0 Votes
+ -
Yes They Did
Harry Bardal 17th Sep 2008
Yup, it was a failure, but it was not a failure in a vacuum. It
had context, and the context is open architecture itself.

So sure, let's not write or test against complexity anymore. I
have a dim view of malfunctioning software and those who sell
it. I usually stop writing them checks. For the Windows user,
that means ditching the jukebox. Fortunately, it was free.
Whoops, I guess by that standard, Vista spent a year in
"ditchable" status as well. The principled users, are therefore
on XP, Mac, and Linux and iTunes works well on one of them.
Guess which, and guess why.
0 Votes
+ -
Much better.
TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827 17th Sep 2008
Maybe Vista is too open (I would have to leave that to people who know Windows better) or complex. I do system test (primary function) for a living (18 years, I am getting old) and I know that KISS is the ONLY way to go.

Case and point, there really should be no way a driver brings the OS down, I suspect MS will be looking at this moving forward. My point, you would do well to condense your argument the way you did above.

Note: I use Linux, iTunes is not native, no real need though, Amarok (which Windows users will be getting formal release soon) is my multimedia player.

TripleII
0 Votes
+ -
I'm sure you're very intelligent
beoz Updated - 17th Sep 2008
I appreciate the cogent manner in which you post, it's a breath of fresh air compared to "OMG M$ SUX LOL DIE LINUX WINDOZE".

But uh, I think you're failing to communicate with your audience..unless your audience is full of sesquipedalians.
0 Votes
+ -
Caveman Hate iTunes
Harry Bardal 18th Sep 2008
These issues are often counterintuitive. We need to be
thinking about technology from the logic gate up, not
from the logo down. Last time I checked, Apple uses the
same 0's and 1's Microsoft does. We should all be beyond
platform piety, but we need multiple platforms for that to
be the case. ZDNet and Ed in particular take great pains to
keep the platforms separate and at odds. "Windows
inevitability" is the larger instance of that problem. A
cynical person might say fanning the flame wars is the
purpose.

On some bright shining day, some rebel is actually going
to do a review of peered and competitive systems rather
than comparing Windows to itself. On that day, we're all
going to grow a brain.
0 Votes
+ -
I use Linux regularly, Win XP, VIsta, whatever. I'm fairly agnostic generally.

BUT, when I look at the U.S. Cert list each week, one of the biggest contributors is iTunes. Well, QuickTime really. Its almost as bad as RealPlayer.

If a corporation isn't concerned about QuickTime on a windows box, its nearly corporate malfeasance. Go check out mpack, metasploit, or any other pack of exploits. They *all* have iTunes exploits. Visit BusinessWeek during a malware dump. iTunes is often on the list of attack vectors.

And I liked iTunes....
0 Votes
+ -
I'd Agree
Harry Bardal 18th Sep 2008
Apple, like everyone including Microsoft, have written
insecure software for the PC. Let's separate this from the
corporate world. Business should not only reject iTunes for
security reasons, they should reject Windows and a
licensing scheme that put a "company car" in the hands of
every cubicle dwelling surf. Blame Apple for it. Business
should be on thin clients, and the only reason they are not,
is the GUI was too sexy, and guess who made it that way.
You tell me who has more to lose from common sense
applied evenly.

Secondly let's separate security threats from security
consequences and look at the record of consequences for
OSX and Windows. The difference is staggering, and the
market share issue doesn't do enough to explain the
disparity. Rise in Apple market share also rebalances from
a monoculture that assists exploits.

My issue, in all these subjects is context. Some of the
underlying reasons for the patterns of Windows failures
stem from complexity, open architecture, and lack of
accountability with large segments of usage. This does
nothing to absolve Apple, but there are circumstances in
which that's not the point. Accountability in the larger
sense is more attractive to consumers than artificial
abundance and fake choice. If it takes a problem to
highlight it, so be it.

What it does do is point towards Apple's own platform. It
must be bad? They write terrible software? Turns out no.
The non-technical iTunes user who has the app fail on the
PC turns to the Mac and sees it working and working and
displaying better. They see it multitasking better. There are
no sound drop-offs thanks to core audio. What's that you
say? I don't have to worry about malware and viruses
anymore? I don't need to purchase security software? The
Mac has had tight user account control for 7 years? No
wild viruses to speak of? Gee!

You see where I'm going with this? Much distills down to
the user experience. Business was led astray years ago,
and not by technical merit, but by a licensable, hardware-
independent GUI. A consumer product drove business and
it was by no means the first time. So when you say iTunes
is bad for business, I say no kidding. I say extend that
logic to it's ultimate end, and you have a very different,
and decidedly de-Window'd landscape.
0 Votes
+ -
Much text...
Sleeper Service 20th Sep 2008
...little sense.
0 Votes
+ -
Re: Vista Rejection?
notsofast 20th Sep 2008
What are you talking about? Vista's adoption rate is faster than any previous MS OS. And just like the last OS, most copies come with a new computer.

Only people like myself install a new OS...everyone else buys a computer and uses the OS till they get their next Computer.

Regardless, the fault for this lies with Apple. They put out an app and drivers that they didn't fully test Itunes before releasing it. There's no doubt that testing is easier on the Mac platform, but it's not relevant.

As for the double standard, having a spec system doesn't hinder openness. It gives OEMs, and presumably consumers, sets of hardware that MS is saying will always work. For many (most?) users, those systems will suffice. For those that it does not, they'll have plenty of options.
0 Votes
+ -
Let's not mince words her guys! Windows is ultimately to blame. If it was a better operating system it would kill the app and not he whole operating system. I use Mac and Win and the answer would be the same that the OS is ultimately the loser whenever a blue screen of death appears.
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
Sigh
Ed Bott 18th Sep 2008
The cause of the crash is a kernel-mode USB driver, not an app. You could do the same thing on a Mac, except it would be called a kernel panic.

If Apple wrote and installed only a user-mode app, then its crashes would be handled gracefully. But it is doing far more.
0 Votes
+ -
There now appears to be major problems with USB in the latest MAC OS release too!
Ed, as you know a driver is nothing more than an
program that has no direct human interaction. It is
streamlined and also in many cases written with code
that has been old and decrepit.

The fact that the drivers are part of the problem, you
really can't blame Apple for that. Microsoft has
allowed hundreds of companies to develop drivers for
its system.

You know that the bug or crash is due to a USB driver
conflict, do you know which one? Do you know if it
only affects people with ASUS motherboards, Abit, or
is it only with Tyan or Soyo motherboards? Because as
we know they all have the USB hardware inside it, with
their own set of firmware directions built into the
board itself. Or was it Microsoft's own drivers...

Do we know that these drivers are not created poorly
by the developer? Do we even know that the USB drivers
are only affected when you have a third party USB card
placed into your machine too?

The problem is that although Apple did create a crash,
it was obviously by mistake. I would love to see a
company come up with a program that works on every
system the first time without issue, or when they add
in a new addition to the program itself.

The only company that can get away with ungodly buggy
software from the word go is Microsoft, if Apple isn't
allowed a level of leeway for a mistake then
Microsoft, and it's creator Bill Gates should be
crucified and hung from the rafters...

For in my lifetime working on, selling, and doing
troubleshooting for, Microsoft has yet to come out
with an OS or program that didn't need patching or
serious work after it was released.

As one saying that has stuck with me put it so succinctly, "If Microsoft wanted to create something
that didn't suck, they would come out with a vacum."
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
You have no idea what you're talking about
Ed Bott Updated - 19th Sep 2008
Apple has acknowledged it was their driver that caused the problem. They released a new version of iTunes 8 with a different driver and even wrote a support document acknowledging the problem and telling their users to get the ne version to resolve the issue.

Trying to blame this on someone else is way beyond silly.
0 Votes
+ -
Apple to blame, try Microsoft.
Matt Ridge 20th Sep 2008
Apple can only be blamed for so much, if you remember Microsoft still won't disclose all the code required to its developers to make a program work flawlessly...

There is a reason why it is easier to program for the Mac than it is for the PC... and it isn't due to the lack of lines to make a Mac work, but the lack of antiquated code and Darwinist mentality of Microsoft.

Windows Vista is still using code that they were using back during DOS and Windows 98, you can't tell me that corruption and lack of functionality can't be placed at the feet of Microsoft demanding a product out faster than it should be.

Microsoft believes in the mentality push it out the door and we will fix the bugs later, if you are telling me that a security patch, an "update" or something of the sort didn't break the program and cause Apple to revert back to an older version of a driver that did work to fix the issue of crashes and corruption on their end then you really are blind to the Microsoft way of life.

Apple beta tested the application on their systems, and it worked. If you are telling me that Apple has to beta test it on the hundreds of thousands of variations of Vista and XP systems out there (which are programmed like night and day) and expect them to work flawlessly then you seriously have a delusional view of Apple, they are like no other company out there. They program to the cover the majority of all people out there and of course a small percentile are going to have issues. That is the world of programming.

It looks also the the majority of these issues came with Vista, and lets be honest, most people in the work force will not be using Vista because it is buggy, dysfunctional, etc.. there are articles saying that Vista is just as secure as XP still coming out, has anyone here ever thought that that type of article or description is laughable? Vista was suppose to be superior in all ways to XP and yet until XP was taken out of options for new build systems VIsta wasn't even 5% of all purchases. Only till the masses complained did XP come back.

Vista has now become part of the mainstream by Microsoft Strong arming tactics, in where they have pretty much forced the software developers to develop for Vista only products, or products that won't work fully unless you have Vista.

You can blame Apple for coding something that caused crashes, but a failed USB software driver alone will not cause a crash. It may cause an issue, but it can not crash a system by itself, other programs need to fail for that to happen, in English a cascade effect, which can cause a BSOD.

Apple may be blamed for the starting of the cascade, but Microsoft can be blamed for shoddy craftsmanship as well, because in Vista what has happened should not be able to happen.
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
First rule of holes...
Ed Bott 20th Sep 2008
When you find yourself in one, stop digging.

You really have no idea what you're talking about. "a failed USB software driver alone will not cause a crash"? Wrong. Any kernel mode driver can cause a crash. In fact, that's true on Macs as well. These might be interesting reading for you:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1392

http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/kernelpanics.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=driver+%22kernel+panic%22+USB+site%3Aapple.com

Continuing...

"Windows Vista is still using code that they were using back during DOS and Windows 98." Oh, really? Care to point out which bits of that old you're talking about? Vista and XP are built on the NT code base, which was completely separate from DOS and Win 9x.

Meanwhile, Apple released a buggy driver that caused Windows systems to crash. They aclknowledged it and fixed it quickly. Your arguments are laughable, kind of like a defense attorney arguing that his client is guilty after the entire jury just heard the client confess.

Nice try.
http://www.triplepoint.com/company/larry.html

Try this for size Ed.

Sorry, XP shares the same code in many cases as Windows 95 and before, this isn't a trick issue this is fact.

Ed, please admit you are wrong, I have been doing tech support probably longer than you have, the only diffrence is that you have books under your name I have schools and universities calling me for my help and my fingerprints over same schools and universities creating disk images for Mac and PC systems.

I know enough to know that Windows XP and Vista share in some cases the same code as Windows 95... if this wasn't true then why does the majority of the security patches for Windows that come out traverse and repair

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms08-sep.mspx

Lets see what this looks like, Windows Vista, XP and 2000. Perhaps you are right, but perhaps it isn't just them, because windows 2000 has an NT kernel, and so does Vista. Although it is NT 6.0 This tells me that there is code that is utilized that is well over a decade old.

You may want to ignore this fact, but facts are suborn things. You may not think that XP and Vista has old code in it, but it does.

Also I am not denying something can cause a kernel crash, but it can't cause it on its own. As I have said before and you seem to agree with, but you chose to say I am wrong, that a faulty program can't cause a crash on its own, it needs interaction with other programs, hence the cascade.

You may disagree with the premise, but you can't disagree with the logic. If you do, then you are fooling yourself, and everyone on this board, which is a disservice for everyone here.

Loose the ego, it will help your ability to discuss things with people. Also, snide remarks aren't becoming of an author, and "blogger"... it gives less credibility to your responses although they may be right people will take you more seriously.

Just my two cents, and then some.
0 Votes
+ -
Hand over the shovel
rtk 20th Sep 2008
You already need a ladder.
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
Those links...
Ed Bott 21st Sep 2008
... do not mean what you think they mean.

Sorry, I stand by everything I've written. One of us is right, and one of us is wrong. I'm quite comfortable in my command of the facts.
0 Votes
+ -
Message has been deleted.
Matt Ridge Updated - 22nd Sep 2008
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
You deleted my post. You don't think the problems with USB in the latest MAC OS update are relavent? It seems likely, to me, that the code causing problems in Windows would be shared with the x86 Mac OS. Do you delete everything that does not interest you?
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
No one deleted your comment
Ed Bott 19th Sep 2008
It's still there:

http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12354-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=52068&messageID=982650&start=-9969

And as I explain over and over again, only a ZDNet moderator can delete a post.
0 Votes
+ -
Deleted post
davidadkins1@... 19th Sep 2008
Apologies
0 Votes
+ -
Apple has resolved their mistake.

Apple was at fault. Period. A simple, clear, and direct apology for a flawed update is in order.
0 Votes
+ -
MY PROBLEM:
On a Windows XP Pro (SP 2), after updating iTunes to version 8.1.1.10, my CD & DVD drive letters were missing.
>> Not being a tech guru, it took me several hours to find Mr. Bott's 09/17/08 article "Apple, not Gear, deserves the blame for iTunes crashes" describing the missing CD/DVD drive letters & referencing a Microsoft knowledge base article which fixes it. (That article is KB #314060 -- "Delete lower & upper filters for CD devices.")
>> After running Microsoft's FIX IT, the missing drive letter problem was SOLVED. However, upon restarting iTunes, I got the message that iTunes' CD/DVD burning ability was inoperable due to the changed Registry settings (the "fix" for the missing drive letters). As I use WinAmp for my CD burning (it apparently was not affected), I decided NOT to reinstall iTunes & go through the same problem ALL OVER AGAIN.
>> So. for those of you who have the same problem, I hope this helps.

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix
ie8 fix