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Five things Steve Ballmer won't tell you about Windows 7

By | January 5, 2009, 7:00pm PST

On Wednesday night, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer is going to step on stage at the Venetian Hotel’s Palazzo Ballroom to give the keynote address that kicks off the Consumer Electronics Show. It’s the first time for Ballmer, who’s taking the slot that his predecessor Bill Gates has had for years.

It’s widely expected that Ballmer will publicly unveil Windows 7 Beta 1, just as Gates used the stage to announce previous Windows versions. He’ll no doubt have an entourage of product managers to help him do the actual demos, hopefully inspiring a wow or two from the assembled throngs.

I’m looking forward to the demo, even though I don’t expect any surprises. Mostly, I’m going to be listening between the lines, paying attention to the things that Microsoft chooses not to talk about. In the spirit of the occasion, I offer up the following predictions of things that Ballmer will take great pains to avoid saying.

1. “Some of you are going to hate our new OS, no matter what we do.”

Building software is part art, part science, and all compromise. Every design decision involves tradeoffs in performance, in ease of use for novices versus raw power for experts, even in esthetics. I addressed some of these issues in a post I wrote last year, How do you benchmark real-world work? I fully expect each succeeding wave of Windows 7 reviews to include plenty of “Microsoft sucks” commentary. Especially from InfoWorld.

The back and forth between my ZDNet colleague Jason Perlow and me last week illustrates this principle perfectly. Jason (and the commenters who agree with his point of view) want Microsoft to offer an option that allows them to use their system using the Windows interface they mastered in 1998. I think pursuing that backward-looking strategy would be a massive waste of limited development resources

The bottom line is you can’t please everyone, and one size will never fit all. So the big question for Microsoft is whether they can please enough people and generate enough positive buzz to drown out the negative voices.

2. “Good luck finding drivers for all your old XP-only hardware.”

Over the past few months, I’ve installed and used Windows 7 on a dozen separate systems, representing a wide range in hardware capability and all sorts of different form factors. Virtually every one of those systems had also run Windows Vista at some point in its lab lifecycle, which made it easy for me to track down the best drivers for each subsystem and peripheral.

Over the course of the last two years, I’ve discarded or replaced a handful of devices that didn’t work at all with Vista: several network cards, some storage adapters, a scanner, a TV tuner. In every case, I had to replace the unsupported part or do without. The good news is that the driver model for Windows 7 is identical to that of Windows Vista, so all the hardware I now own (and all the drivers I’ve bookmarked and saved) will work on upgraded systems.

So, what happens to people who decided to skip Vista and stick with XP, for whatever reason? They get to face those exact same issues. If your device doesn’t have a driver for Windows Vista, it will not work under Windows 7. Period. Full stop.

3. “We’re still at the mercy of our clueless OEM partners – and so are you.”

Some of the worst complaints about Windows Vista came from users who were subjected to horrible installations from OEMs, with poorly written drivers, inadequate hardware, and great heaping helpings of crapware to slow everything down to a crawl.

I had the chance to see this phenomenon up close and personal last year, when I rebuilt a Sony VAIO whose performance with Windows Vista was so awful that its owner basically wrote it off and bought a new MacBook. After a clean installation, including Vista Service Pack 1, its performance was eye-opening and impressive.

Since that time, Sony, Dell, and other top-tier OEMs have cleaned up their acts impressively. But even if Windows 7 turns out to be an excellent operating system, there’s still the potential for it to be scuttled by sloppy or greedy hardware makers. Microsoft executives are jawboning like crazy with their hardware partners; you know they’ll be holding their breath after the launch to see how those systems perform in the real world.

4. “It might be years before we have a killer application for Vista or Windows 7.”

The myth of the “killer app” has never been stronger than with Windows Vista. The idea refers to some program that performs an absolutely irresistible function and only runs on a particular platform. If you need that program, you have to upgrade to the new OS.

But software developers, including Microsoft, aren’t interested in cutting off customers who still use older platforms, especially in this tight economy. So, as a result, most popular Windows programs these days are written to run on Windows XP, Vista, and (soon) Windows 7. And there’s no sign that’s going to change anytime soon.

If anything, Microsoft is doing its best to avoid any kind of Vista-only software. The new Windows Live Essentials bundle, for example, works on XP and Vista, as does Windows Live Mesh and every member of the Microsoft Office family.

None of those programs are going to drop XP support anytime soon (although it’s remotely possible that the next version of Office will work only on Vista or later). That strategy of wide backward compatibility is the right thing to do for customers, but it bolsters the argument of those who contend that a killer app is the only reason to upgrade.

5. “Our licensing terms are as hopelessly confusing as ever.”

Microsoft hasn’t gotten around to announcing how many editions of Windows 7 it plans to produce or what their prices will be. But one thing is certain: the confusing, multi-layered Windows business model isn’t going to change.

Royalty OEMs (the big PC makers like HP, Dell, Sony, and Toshiba) have one price list and one set of terms. Small system builders have another set of rules. Retail copies are horrendously overpriced.

Enterprise customers have to navigate through a thicket of price lists and volume licensing programs that actually require their own certification programs. And even Microsoft sometimes contradicts itself completely on how licensing terms apply to some customers.

Those are my predictions. Sit back, grab some popcorn, and watch the keynote for yourself, in low (100k), medium (300k) or high quality (750k) streams.

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Topics

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications.

Disclosure

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is a freelance technical journalist and book author. All work that Ed does is on a contractual basis.

Since 1994, Ed has written more than 25 books about Microsoft Windows and Office. Along with various co-authors, Ed is completely responsible for the content of the books he writes. As a key part of his contractual relationship with publishers, he gives them permission to print and distribute the content he writes and to pay him a royalty based on the actual sales of those books. Ed's books written prior to fall 2011 have been distributed by Que Publishing (a division of Pearson Education) and by Microsoft Press. As of November 2011, Ed is a partner in the independent publishing company Fair Trade Digital Exchange, which exclusively publishes his books.

On occasion, Ed accepts consulting assignments. In recent years, he has worked as an expert witness in cases where his experience and knowledge of Microsoft and Microsoft Windows have been useful. In each such case, his compensation is on an hourly basis, and he is hired as a witness, not an advocate.

Ed does not own stock or have any other financial interest in Microsoft or any other software company. He owns 500 shares of stock in EMC Corporation, which was purchased before the company's acquisition of VMware. In addition, he owns 350 shares of stock in Intel Corporation, purchased more than two years ago. All stocks are held in retirement accounts for long-term growth.

Ed does not accept gifts from companies he covers. All hardware products he writes about are purchased with his own funds or are review units covered under formal loan agreements and are returned after the review is complete.

Biography

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications. He's served as editor of the U.S. edition of PC Computing and managing editor of PC World; both publications had monthly paid circulation in excess of 1 million during his tenure. He is the author of more than 25 books on Microsoft Windows and Office, including the recently released Windows 7 Inside Out.

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Vista sucked for many reasons.
Ivan_the_stinky 17th Aug 2009
If you remeber reading the news back in the days of vista's development. You may remember that the security in vista had to be dramatically changed late in the development cycle due to a large court case. A court case from the likes of Symantec, McAfee. They had heard that microsoft wanted to make the kernel secure in thier new os (vista) and they didn't like that one bit...
The crazy thing is that they won and vista was changed. Over night the only progressive changes were scrapped. No new f/s and no new secure kernel.

Besides that Microsoft lied about what hardware was necessary to run windows. They claimed that the vista basic experience would run on 512Mb actually 448MB after video memory is subtracted. I set some of these so called NEW notebooks up after ariving from reputable manufactures. In most cases they actually ran slower than the 6 year or so old Windows xp pc's (bloated with crapware and worse) that they were supposedly replacing.

Shiney, glittering, gadget loaded user interfaces may present a wow factor initially but in reality they are no more useful than fancy packaging. What people really need is a clean easy to read inteface.
Personally i switch off all shadows and animations as they do nothing for readability and only slow me down.
I find the windows classic theme snappier and more efficient on screen space.

@de-void:
You mentioned that windows xp can be sold up until July 09.
You forgot to mention however that this only applies to OEM netbook / netpc's.
More as Microsoft's own admition that Vista is wholely unsuitable for these systems.
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VISTA tax
nizuse 5th Jan 2009
"Over the course of the last two years, I?ve discarded or replaced a handful of devices that didn?t work at all with Vista: several network cards, some storage adapters, a scanner, a TV tuner."

Fantastic.
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Oy.. It's not THAT bad...
Wolfie2K3 5th Jan 2009
First off, we don't know how old those devices are. For all we know, those NICs could have been ancient 10BaseT cards that are slower than a glacier.

Just wait till the Snow Kitty gets released... From what we've heard about it so far, it's going to REQUIRE an Intel based Mac. Now we're going to see Mac users having to toss out perfectly good PPC based hardware because it won't run the latest and greatest OSX...

The point is: Technology moves forward. Things go obsolete. Feces occurs. Move on..
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So you say you don't know.
nizuse 6th Jan 2009
..
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I could have sworn I did... n/t
Wolfie2K3 7th Jan 2009
n/t
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Well said - Apple "tax" seemingly infinite
coppockm@... 6th Jan 2009
It's silly to talk negatively about how switching to Vista, or Windows 7, requires one to discard older hardware and software. The same was true with Windows XP, Windows 2000, Windows 98, etc., etc. And the same is, of course, absolutely and frighteningly true with the Mac.

Consider what it means to switch to a Macintosh (and yes, I own a Macbook Pro, and run Linux machines, as well as my Vista and now Windows 7 systems). First, there's absolutely NO software that will work with the Mac, unless one runs in Boot Camp or a virtual machine. Second, there is far more hardware that _won't_ work with a Mac than _will_ work with it.

The biggest advantage that Apple has is that it controls the hardware as well as the software. Macs work better not because their inherently superior, but because Mac can optimize the OS for a very limited set of machines. Vista failed not because it was inherently bad, but because the drivers produced by third parties were terrible, something that Apple simply does not--by design--have to deal with. Yes, that's a great move on Apple's part, it's brilliant strategy, and it's also something Microsoft would never get away with.

Yes, there's an Apple "tax," and there's a Vista "tax," and there will be a Windows 7 "tax." As Wolfie2K3 pointed out, as technology advances, things are made obsolete. One day, we'll all be struggling with reading our old CD's and DVD's. Such is life, and one simply needs to accept and plan for such changes, rather than crying about them.
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Head in sand? Not this guy . . .
brian ansorge 6th Jan 2009
Computer Hell:

"Unless the computer is re-architected from scratch, which will not happen in the next 100 years, we are set on a path of never-ending misery. Windows Vista proves it."

John C. Dvorak
PC Magazine
Jan 29, 2007
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Dvorak?
Sleeper Service 7th Jan 2009
Srsly.
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WELL SAID !!
Vinces314 12th Jan 2009
WELL SAID !!!!!!!!
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Why accept needless changes?
lastar84 6th Jan 2009
Funny as it may sound, coming from me (a radical progressive) change for the sake of itself is ridiculous. I still have the Photoshop 4.0 LE program that came with a printer I purchased ten years ago. Works just fine in XP SP3, and while I've advanced into well into CS4 since then, I'm still amazed at what a wonderful piece of software that "limited edition" was. I have lots of programs that are old and running like a charm.

Here's an idea for anyone creating an operating system. Stop trying to justify yourself with silly whizbang garbage, stop changing things out of boredom, and stay the h*ll out of my way! I have many programs -- old, new, free and paid for -- to do the things I want to do.
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Change For The Same Reason As Always
Leans_To_Center 7th Jan 2009
If they don't change things, they have nothing new to sell,
and no profits.

Try selling that to the MS / Apple / Adobe people.
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money money money
tmsbrdrs 11th Jan 2009
There's a reason I switched to Linux and you just pointed out that reason. If a software developer is in it solely for profit then the software will be made to sell the most copies, not to do the best job. Vista sucked just enough so that when people saw Windows 7 come out, they thought "finally". I've looked at several paid programs vs. the free alternatives and found that, in most cases, the free alternative actually does a better job with less bloat. Even free software made by Adobe is crap when compared to software made by smaller companies that actually care about the product. For example, Adobe Reader when compared to Foxit Reader on Windows. Adobe is bloated, slow to load with limited abilities and slows your PC to a crawl when in use. Foxit is small, takes less than half the time to load, reads PDFs just as easily and even lets you edit a PDF file or create one with the free software, something you'd never get to do with Adobe. Comparing an OS works the same way. I'm working with Ubuntu right now. I paid nothing for it. It's a smaller size and takes up less system resources when compared with XP. I have at least as many of those "high end" effects that Vista was supposedly giving for the money. I've had no driver difficulties, though from what I've read that's not always the case. I can use ever piece of hardware I own with Ubuntu with no configuration necessary. I even get better performance out of the apps that run on multiple platforms. Blender (a free 3D rendering tool capable of creating full, feature length, feature quality animations) runs faster and more smoothly on Ubuntu than it did on XP on the same machine. My browser runs more smoothly on Ubuntu. Last.fm loads more quickly and even my msn software (aMSN since the actual software isn't made for Linux, you'd have to ask microsoft about that one) even my msn software runs better. I have downloaded a few files and one or two programs from websites and noticed a difference in download speeds of 10X that of XP at the lowest. When my PC runs at its top speeds, I dare an XP user to match them. All that came free, but if I pay for the newest OS from MS, I have to upgrade my hardware, most likely find new peripherals since mine will no longer be compatible and I will have to spend well over the $200 I spent for my used system with such great performance under Ubuntu. The only thing left to MS that Linux can't do is running Direct X games. One lawsuit announcing the monopoly on gaming and even that will change. Either MS will have to give access to Direct X to all other OS platforms or gaming engineers will have to design games that will run on multiple platforms.
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coppockm
Axsimulate Updated - 7th Jan 2009
coppockm said:
"First, there's absolutely NO software that will work with the Mac, unless one runs in Boot Camp or a virtual machine."

Wow! Image, all these years I've been using Macs and all the software I've been using over those years has just been my imagination! Thanks coppockm!

And while we are talking about non-existing software on the Mac, just think; the gui version of Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Photoshop, Illustrator, Quark Xpress, and many more that are running on Windows, is just your imagination because none of those would have existed if it wasn't for the Mac.

coppockm said:
"The biggest advantage that Apple has is that it controls the hardware as well as the software."

Wait! didn't you just state their is NO software for the Mac?

No software for the Mac, ha!, typical Windows fanboi post.
And by the way, stating their is no software for the Mac, invalidated your claim you own an Apple laptop.
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Errr okay...
logicearth@... 7th Jan 2009
"Wow! Image, all these years I've been using Macs and all the software I've been using over those years has just been my imagination! Thanks coppockm!"

He means software for Windows. Are you to dense to figure that out?
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RE: Errr okay...
Axsimulate 8th Jan 2009
Go re-read his post. Do you really think he said there is no software for Windows?

Pot calling the kettle black comes to mind.
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RE: Errr okay,,,
MarkKB 8th Jan 2009
Go re-read his post. Do you really think he said there is no software for Windows?

The OP was saying that when someone switches from Windows to Mac OS X, none of their software on Windows will work on Mac OS X. That's what the parent was trying to get across.
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Another MS preacher
Jim4Prez 6th Jan 2009
It seams people can't even comment on a TOTALLY MS-based article without bringing up Apple?

Are you really that jealous that you have not bought a Mac yet? Spare me the "they cost too much" crap. You can get a very good IMac or Macbok now for VERY competitive prices.

Exactly what PPC based hardware are you talking about?

Any Mac user with a PPC based Mac will be fine. See, They don't have to upgrade to the latest OS. MS has been basically Intel-Only for many years now.

Sure they did a little server stuff in the ITanic and other platforms in the WinNT days.

But tell me the last time you could buy a non-Intel computer with MS-Windows on it?

Again, you won't "see Mac users having to toss out perfectly good PPC based hardware because it won't run the latest and greatest OSX". You are just stupid for even thinking that. I can certainly tell you have never even freaking OWNED an OSX-based system.

Stick to Winders. That seems to suit you fine. Oh, and stop with the little "Mac users will do this or that" crap. Actually BUY a Mac and then you can have an opinion.
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Fix
Jim4Prez 6th Jan 2009
Non-Intel should be non-x86.
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I have a Mac, and...
coppockm@... 6th Jan 2009
My understanding is that Snow Leopard will be Intel-only. That means that folks with PPC-based Macs won't be able to upgrade. The original point here was that it's true in the Mac world as well as the Windows world: eventually, older hardware and software gets abandoned.

So, I don't think your point is perfectly clear.

Incidentally, yes, you can get decent Mac hardware for decent prices. Used. Off eBay. Or refurbed. Or, every very now and then, discounted (because of course Apple controls Mac pricing with an iron fist). However, you can't get decent _new_ systems for much less than $1000, as you can with Windows PCs--where you can easily get a decent system for $500, or even less.

Yes, there IS a Mac premium, and in fact, that's on purpose. It's Apple's entire strategy--position themselves as the high-priced, superior product. And they'd be fools to do anything different.
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Snow Kitty and PPC
Asiafish 6th Jan 2009
Those PPC Macs that users will
have to discard will be a
minimum of 6-years-old.
Besides that, Leopard, like XP in
the Windows world, will remain a
supported OS for some time to
come, so no discard required.
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Ok... You're missing the point.
Wolfie2K3 7th Jan 2009
The OP was bemoaning how some of Ed's hardware was no longer supported under Vista/7. My point was that pretty much ALL hardware will, eventually, be put out to pasture. Even Macs.

A few old NICs, an old scanner and a tv tuner card (which will likely be obsolete come the middle of next month anyhow) are a small price to pay.

If you want to pet the Snow Kitty, you best have an Intel chip inside. Of course, the older versions of the OS will still be supported - for a while. At least until the next rev after Snow Leopard comes out. But even those will eventually no longer supported.
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money money money
tmsbrdrs 11th Jan 2009
The OP was bemoaning how perfectly good, functional hardware that was good enough for day to day use with XP with no trouble had to be upgraded just because of a new OS.In other words, for the average user who upgrades his OS to whatever new version of Windows is the choice at the moment, the money train doesn't stop at the OS. It keeps going and going and going. The problem with running a machine with XP once support for it has stopped is that whatever security vulnerablities haven't been fixed yet will continue to exist and will continue to be exploited for at least a few years after support has stopped. The only way to keep your PC safe is to take it offline or switch OS's. In comparison, an older model of OSX is still pretty safe, even after support is no longer available. Unix based systems do have a very good security system compared with Windows. That means there's not really any need to keep them offline for a few years just to keep your data safe. Linux systems are even safer and much easier on the wallet. I'm using Ubuntu 8.10 with compiz fusion running and having no slowdown, even on my older PC (Pentium IV at 1.8 Ghz with 512 Mbs RAM and a 127 gig hdd. Even my USB ports are still an older model. All my hardware was supported straight out of the box with no driver installation required, though Ubuntu did find and install a proprietary driver for my geforce 4000 model video card). Bottom line, when Windows says one of its OS' is obsolete, the entire Windows using world has no choice but to go along with it or reenact the scene from Pitch Black where the guy fell behind. With a Mac, it's still daylight and there's nothing there to eat you. With Linux, there's no falling behind, ever.
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Contributr
All of them were outdated and the replacements in every case offered huge improvements in performance and functionality.

They were all purchased in 1999-2003, with the first wave of XP releases.
I had a Laserjet printer that I bought in 1993 that worked perfectly until the sensor that detects paper in the tray malfunctioned and could not be replaced. It printed prescriptions in my exam room and was quite fast enough for the task, as well as giving beautiful results. My 1999 Ford Taurus has 80,000 miles on it, barely a scratch and runs trouble free -- should someone force me not to drive it any more because there are cars with more features? The OS changes are like changing the rail spacing of the railroads. Maybe the newer cars to the new specification will have improvements, but that leaves a lot of rolling stock that is otherwise functional needing replaced. We used to call this planned obsolescence.
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missed detail on printer.
hizaleus 6th Jan 2009
The printer stopped working in 2006. My objection is not that it was no longer supported by the manufacturer (I got my money's worth), but that a peripheral like this with plenty of useful life in it could be made worthless because of an operating system that offers no drivers.
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The devil's in the details...
coppockm@... 6th Jan 2009
But, of course, that's not the point: your printer was "made worthless" because the cost of maintaining parts inventory for such an old device became prohibitive for the manufacturer.

The same is true for an older operating system. At some point, the cost of maintaining support for the OS, as well as updating drivers, becomes prohibitive as well.

Basically, you're asking the manufacturer to continue to support you and your obsolete equipment and software merely... well... because. Even if it costs them tremendous amounts of money, as well as holding back the development of new and divergent products.

I suppose if there was a model for that sort of thing, that is, people who are willing to _pay_ for new drivers for older products and to _pay_ for maintenance on out-of-production operating systems, then you'd be in good shape. However, there isn't a model for it, because there aren't enough people willing to pay the cost.

Your example of your old Taurus is telling. At some point, as with any automobile, you'll be unable to get parts for it. You're more than welcome to keep running it, as long as it's safe, of course, and meets emissions standards (another topic entirely), but you'll play hell getting parts to fix it and finding mechanics with the knowledge to do so. I can remember my Dad driving around junk yards looking for parts for my old '72 Olds Cutlass. That's reality.

What you're asking for is for the manufacturer (not Microsoft, mind you) to keep making updated drivers forever, no matter the cost. If you want that, fine, but be prepared to pay _a lot_ more for the printer in the first place, and to pay through the nose as time goes on.
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Thank You! Now maybe the clueless will get one?
JustAnAboveAverageJoe 6th Jan 2009
But don't hold your breath.
Actually, what he's asking for is for perfectly good hardware which performs admirably to continue to be allowed to do so. There's no need for the manufacturor to have to make a new driver. The only real need for something a lot more drastic but also a lot more useful. All that needs to happen is for drivers to be standardized. Instead of needing a specific driver for one piece of hardware from one manufacturor and a different specific driver for a similar piece of hardware that does the exact same job from a different manufacturor just because that's how it always has been done, why not make one driver for a certain time period, capable of running the features for that particular piece of hardware? In Linux, this is very well taken care of for anything not labeling itself as too good for the community. Upkeep for drivers, once they'd been standardized, would be minimal. Rather than having to upgrade a hundred drivers for printers manufactured between 1993 and 1994, you'd have to upgrade one, multiply that by the number of years and number of devices and you're saving millions of labor hours. It's not even that much of a huge feat to standardize. One driver made for the best class of items capable of running all items below it and you're done. As I said, if a free OS can handle this task, then surely MS with it's multibillion dollars in assets can handle it. If a bunch of nonpaid programmers doing it for the love of the cause, then programmers who make a hundred dollars an hour can handle this small task. The happiest customer is the one who chooses your business rather than the one who is forced into it.
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We're not being forced...
Sleeper Service 6th Jan 2009
...you can stick with them if you want as well as XP.

What's your point exactly?
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"Force" is a bad word here...
coppockm@... 6th Jan 2009
Well, the word "force" is bandied about way too often nowadays. You're right, no force is being used here. I don't see Microsoft holding a gun to anyone's head.

Folks will, however, eventually be _required_ to switch to something other than XP. Microsoft won't continue to support the OS forever, and neither will hardware manufacturers. It just costs too darn much.

Your point is well taken, though. People have choices, they're just choices among the available options. I'd sure love to buy a 1968 Chevy Camaro, brand new, but guess what: that's simply not possible because it's not made any longer. The lack of a choice in the matter isn't the same as the use of force.
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no choice means being forced
tmsbrdrs 11th Jan 2009
If I'm walking down a path that disappears behind me and I have no choice but to keep going am I being forced to walk down that path if I want to do anything but stand still and die? A person who requires an OS in order to make a living has no choice but to upgrade his OS is in the same predicament. He cannot stand still without losing his livelihood and he cannot go back. He is being forced to "progress" just to continue life as he knows it. MS may not be holding a gun to his head but it's still a forced move.
I agree with they. I have a Soundblaster Live 5.1 which I bought in 2003. I recently had to rebuild that computer after a motherboard failure. So I rebuilt it into a HTPC complete with a CoolerMaster HTPC case with VFD, Media Center remote and digital tuner card. Being an MSDN subscriber, I had a complementary copy of Vista lying around, so I decided to try it.

It was a bad move.

My SoundBlaster Live 5.1 was unsupported, no matter how much I cursed or what kind of driver I throw at it. Also, the onboard audio won't let me pass sound from the Line-In port to the speakers. Apart from that, the CoolerMaster VFD refused to work either, the driver kept complaining about the VFD being an OEM and I should get the drivers from the OEM's website, though the funny thing is that I got the driver from CoolerMaster's website itself. I could not find working drivers for my Broadcom-based Bluetooth dongle either- the Widcomm updater kept saying that I had a unsupported bluetooth device.

The last straw that broke the camel's back came when I tried to shut down the PC - it went into standby instead of shutting down and refused to wake no matter how furiously I tapped on the keyboard or power switch.

After that handful experience, I immediately got rid of Vista and went to XP Media Center Edition, and everything worked. If the time for leaving XP should come, I will switch to Linux, since to my understanding, everything on the HTPC has drivers and works with Linux.
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Uh...
Sleeper Service Updated - 7th Jan 2009
...I take it you didn't download ALchemy then?

You know the free software Creative provided to enable older cards to work with Vista because HAL had been replaced?
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Funny you should mention the Ford Taurus
clyman6232@... 7th Jan 2009
I owned a Mercury Sable wagon, the same thing as a Taurus. The ones with a 3.8 ltr engine also came with a 4 speed automatic overdrive transmission which Ford did not properly lubricate the tail shaft. The result was that the transmission would always go out, usually between 60 and 120 thousand miles. After buying it for $5200.00 in 2007, I put about $10,000 into repairs including a transmission at about 120,000, new head gaskets within a month later and immediatly after the head gasket, the injectors had to be taken out and cleaned with one needing replacement. The reason was the block expanded and contracted at a lot less than the aluminum heads. Naturally with the heads expanding and contracting so much more than the block, the head gasket had to let go. They even used stretch bolts for the heads that could not be reused, you had to purchase new ones at about $200.00. The transmissions were from about 1999 and 2003 so I recommend that if you have that experimental transmission, it is time to get rid of it. A very poor example for what this discussion is about. The only reason for changing operating systems is that they want to sell you a new operating system even if it replaces one that worked perfectly. Also, they helped their friends who make computer parts. All they had to do was not write drivers for the new operating system and boost their sales. It is all a gimick. Most people found XP to do everything they wanted done and the only way to get updates besides critical ones is to pay through the nose for extended support, and that is only until 2014. After 2014, who knows. I suppose you could spend a few hundred dollars per year to keep XP alive but by then the software will not run on XP.

It is all about greed, not trying to give the customers a good product. This applies to Microsoft and Apple. I am sure that XP would meet my needs for the rest of my life if parts with XP drivers were still available. I already own the software that I need and there is no need to change it to get the job done that I need done.

I would not mind so much if they came out with an operating system that looks and acts like XP and would continue to run new software that comes in XP format. Like that will ever happen. It is the american mindset. Look at the Japanese cars. At 125,000 miles most american cars are wearing out while the Japanese ones are just getting broken in. My Acura Integra has over 280,000 miles on it which is very typical Honda and Toyota cars and trucks. The Big 3 would not listen Demming about building quality into every part but the Japanese, being humble after their loss in the war, listened. The big 3 told Demming that "why should they change, they had the market? Gold old American pride has ruined this country.
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Send those replaced parts to
tracy anne Updated - 7th Jan 2009
Ken Stark at Helios Solutions in Texas, he will have no trouble making them work with Linux, and as he operates a charity giving rebuilt comuputers to needy families, he can use every donation given.

This applies to all Vista and Windows 7 users, please give generously of the hardware you've had to replace.

Ken can be contacted at http://www.heliosinitiative.org/blog/ just leave him a message and he'll be back to you.
Best reason to "upgrade" to Vista or Windows 7, so a Linux user can help the world. I love it.
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much lulz
Spiritusindomit@... 8th Jan 2009
I've been running it for three years and never had to replace a single thing. Mr Bott holds on to some pretty ancient and obscure hardware. 99% of users have an experience similar to my own.
6. Windows 7 will take another three years of development *after* it's released to reach its full operational state.
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Unlikely.
CobraA1 5th Jan 2009
Unlikely. Unlike Vista, which was a total rewrite of many of the internal parts of Windows, Windows 7 has less internal changes and appears to focus more on UI changes. It should be fully operational, and will be fully compatible with Vista applications and drivers.
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Total ReWrite?!?!
Stuka 5th Jan 2009
Thats about laughable. It was FAR from a complete rewrite. MS has not done a complete re-write of any large part of windows since Windows 95 and NT4.

Vista is simply XP with a lot of stuff added on to it or changed. If Windows 7 does indeed use MinWin, this will be the single largest change in a consumer version of windows in ages.
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You're Wrong
dschlegel@... 5th Jan 2009
Sorry, but it's true. Vista was a rewrite of a lot of the underlying parts of Windows - especially driver models. This is most of what caused headaches with Vista - a new video driver model and new sound driver model just to scratch the surface. These changes were necessary though. For example, many drivers were moved to user mode instead of kernel mode (WDDM vs. XPDM display drivers). This increases the stability of the system overall - the less calls being made by third party software directly to the kernel the better. Of course what is visible of these changes are things like Aero which with a WDDM driver will not be the culprit of a BSOD, and on the sound end we now have application specific control of audio levels.

You speak of MinWin being a large change in Windows. In fact that's another area Vista was a big step, most of the separation of windows subsystems happened in the Vista era, and is only being improved upon in Windows 7. MinWin really is just what happens when you run the windows kernel without any other subsystems of the operating system running, and most of the work to make this happen existed in Vista.
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The entire...
logicearth@... Updated - 5th Jan 2009
Networking stack was rewritten from the ground up in Windows Vista. If Vista was simply Windows XP, then it should not of had the compatibility problems that it did.

Btw, the Networking stack is a large and major component.
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First of all, I said "Unlike Vista, which was a total rewrite of many of the internal parts of Windows . . .," so yes I am recognizing that some parts haven't been rewritten.

But many have! A lot of big stuff got rewritten - the graphics, the networking, the sound, some parts of the shell, the security model, and most importantly the driver model, which is why we had so many driver problems.

Sure, it's still based on NT, and it still has a some old code in it, but Vista did indeed change a lot of stuff internally.

Why do you think we had so many driver troubles? Microsoft totally rewrote the way drivers worked, that's why!!

Minwin is great, and it'll be fantastic to have a revamped kernel and a more modular OS. But as the others have noted, Vista is the first step in that direction. Windows 7 will be another step. This isn't something that is going to start in Windows 7. It started in Vista, and will continue in Windows 7.
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Just like OS X...
coppockm@... 6th Jan 2009
Indeed. And that's how Apple's done things with OS X, for the most part. The core of the OS remained the same, for the most part, while features were added and tweaked.

Snow Leopard will be interesting, because it's specifically not just feature adds, but rather focuses on core OS changes. And, I've been getting hints of the very same kinds of things that people have complained about with Vista. For example, Snow Leopard builds so far have a very kludgy "run in 32-bit mode" popup for certain preferences items. Might be fixed before release, might not.

The point? Just that nobody, even Apple, is immune to the kinds of complaints I've read in these threads alone.
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I don't want Vista
clyman6232@... 7th Jan 2009
What good is Windows 7 if I want XP? I don't care that Windows 7 is basically the same as Vista, I hate Vista along with 90% of computer users at last count.
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Which count was that?
rtk 7th Jan 2009
You and 8 friends?
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That many?
Sleeper Service 8th Jan 2009
{NT}
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Actual count
tmsbrdrs 11th Jan 2009
You know, the one the Mojave experiment was made to try and quash.
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Is that the same as the...
Sleeper Service 6th Jan 2009
...six updates that Leopard has had in a year to try and bring it up to its full operational state?

Just askin'.
LOL amen brother
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For those running Windows XP and have chosen to skip Windows Vista in favor of Windows 7, please take note. There will be no upgrade path from Windows XP to Windows Vista - clean installs only!

The only upgrade offered is for a computer currently running Windows Vista w/SP1 or SP2 (when it is released in a few months from now).
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Vista sucked for many reasons.
Ivan_the_stinky 17th Aug 2009
If you remeber reading the news back in the days of vista's development. You may remember that the security in vista had to be dramatically changed late in the development cycle due to a large court case. A court case from the likes of Symantec, McAfee. They had heard that microsoft wanted to make the kernel secure in thier new os (vista) and they didn't like that one bit...
The crazy thing is that they won and vista was changed. Over night the only progressive changes were scrapped. No new f/s and no new secure kernel.

Besides that Microsoft lied about what hardware was necessary to run windows. They claimed that the vista basic experience would run on 512Mb actually 448MB after video memory is subtracted. I set some of these so called NEW notebooks up after ariving from reputable manufactures. In most cases they actually ran slower than the 6 year or so old Windows xp pc's (bloated with crapware and worse) that they were supposedly replacing.

Shiney, glittering, gadget loaded user interfaces may present a wow factor initially but in reality they are no more useful than fancy packaging. What people really need is a clean easy to read inteface.
Personally i switch off all shadows and animations as they do nothing for readability and only slow me down.
I find the windows classic theme snappier and more efficient on screen space.

@de-void:
You mentioned that windows xp can be sold up until July 09.
You forgot to mention however that this only applies to OEM netbook / netpc's.
More as Microsoft's own admition that Vista is wholely unsuitable for these systems.

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