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For Vista, WGA gets tougher

By | October 4, 2006, 7:49am PDT

For Windows Vista, Microsoft is rolling out a new version of its Windows Genuine Advantage anti-piracy program, complete with a new name: the Windows Software Protection Platform. This time, they mean business.

Technically, it's not a kill switch, but it's arguably a near-death experience for your PC.Let's call it WGA Plus, shall we? The Plus means this software, which is baked into Windows Vista, is even more aggressive about detecting and blocking what it considers software that is running with unauthorized license keys or has been tampered with. And woe be unto you if you get snagged in the WGA - sorry, SPP dragnet while running Vista. If that happens on a premium version of Windows Vista, you'll first lose access to key features, including the Aero interface, ReadyBoost performance enhancements, and Windows Defender antispyware detection. Eventually, if you don't deal with the problem, the measures get more severe and you're kicked into "reduced functionality mode":

Reduced functionality mode in Windows Vista will allow the user to use the browser after the reduced functionality mode has begun. Reduced functionality mode can occur as a result of failed product activation or of that copy being identified as counterfeit or non-genuine. In most cases customers will be able to correct this situation quickly with the options provided. With the tools in place for OEMs, and small to large customers, we expect that most customers should never be affected by having a non-genuine installation.

Microsoft denies that this is a "kill switch" for Windows Vista, even giving it a separate question and answer in its mock interview announcing the program. Technically, they're right, I suppose. Switching a PC into a degraded functionality where all you can do is browse the Internet doesn't kill it; but it's arguably a near-death experience. The accompanying white paper describes the experience in more detail:

By choosing "Access your computer with reduced functionality," the default Web browser will be started and the user will be presented with an option to purchase a new product key. There is no start menu, no desktop icons, and the desktop background is changed to black. The Web browser will fully function and Internet connectivity will not be blocked. After one hour, the system will log the user out without warning. It will not shut down the machine, and the user can log back in. Note: This is different from the Windows XP RFM experience, which limits screen resolution, colors, sounds and other features. [emphasis added]

My head practically exploded when I read this sentence describing the new, improved punishment regimen: "Windows Vista will have a reduced functionality mode but one that is enhanced." Enhanced reduced functionality? Orwell would be proud.

At first glance, this program looks like WGA, repackaged and renamed. So I asked Thomas Lindeman, Microsoft's Senior Product Manager for the Software Protection Platform, to explain what's new. "The Software Protection Platform is a set of technologies we've been working on for several years," he told me. It includes "anti-tampering, anti-reverse engineering, and activation components consisting of . activation servers and a client service running on the PC." With SPP, according to Lindeman, other tools can call the same APIs, making activation and validation technologies available to any Microsoft program, even games like Flight Simulator.

With SPP, life's going to get more difficult for corporate customers using volume license keys (VLKs). Stolen VLKs have been the bane of Microsoft's existence in the XP era, because pirates use them to install copies of Windows and Office that don't have to be activated. Corporations using Vista with VLKs will have to activate them, using either a Multiple Activation Key that allows a limited number of activations, or a Key Management Service running on a Windows domain (which will require periodic reactivation). The new program is called Volume Activation 2.0, and you can read more details in this white paper).

What's most distressing about the SPP announcement is Microsoft's continued insistence that its anti-piracy tools are nearly perfect and that innocent victims never suffer from errors in their code. The press release includes this snippet, for example:

Customers will be able to easily determine the status of their Windows Vista installations. In the System Properties panel of the Windows Vista Control Panel, Windows Vista will display the genuine status of the installed copy of Windows Vista. From there, and from any screen notifying users of a failed validation, a user will be able to obtain more information on why the copy of Windows is not genuine, as well as resources for getting a genuine copy.

See that? Not whether but why the copy of Windows is not genuine. And not resources for getting assistance, but for "getting a genuine copy." In other words, paying Microsoft.

The most chilling part of SPP is its new code to detect tampering. As Lindeman explained to me, "If the Software Protection Platform determines that the core binaries of your system have been hacked with, you will get a notification that operating system has been tampered with. Reinstallation is the remedy." And the clock starts ticking immediately. When an anti-tampering warning first appears, you have three days to reinstall or otherwise fix your copy of Windows Vista or shift into reduced functionality mode.

Microsoft insists that "most customers should never be affected by having a non-genuine installation." That reassurance would be a lot more comforting if there wasn't already a solid base of failures in its current WGA program.

And in the sort of irony that invariably goes hand in hand with hubris, a wave of new problem reports have begun appearing on the official Microsoft WGA Validation Problems forum from corporate customers reporting that legitimate VLKs for Windows XP are suddenly being blocked. Read more details in this follow-up post.

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Topics

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications.

Disclosure

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is a freelance technical journalist and book author. All work that Ed does is on a contractual basis.

Since 1994, Ed has written more than 25 books about Microsoft Windows and Office. Along with various co-authors, Ed is completely responsible for the content of the books he writes. As a key part of his contractual relationship with publishers, he gives them permission to print and distribute the content he writes and to pay him a royalty based on the actual sales of those books. Ed's books written prior to fall 2011 have been distributed by Que Publishing (a division of Pearson Education) and by Microsoft Press. As of November 2011, Ed is a partner in the independent publishing company Fair Trade Digital Exchange, which exclusively publishes his books.

On occasion, Ed accepts consulting assignments. In recent years, he has worked as an expert witness in cases where his experience and knowledge of Microsoft and Microsoft Windows have been useful. In each such case, his compensation is on an hourly basis, and he is hired as a witness, not an advocate.

Ed does not own stock or have any other financial interest in Microsoft or any other software company. He owns 500 shares of stock in EMC Corporation, which was purchased before the company's acquisition of VMware. In addition, he owns 350 shares of stock in Intel Corporation, purchased more than two years ago. All stocks are held in retirement accounts for long-term growth.

Ed does not accept gifts from companies he covers. All hardware products he writes about are purchased with his own funds or are review units covered under formal loan agreements and are returned after the review is complete.

Biography

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications. He's served as editor of the U.S. edition of PC Computing and managing editor of PC World; both publications had monthly paid circulation in excess of 1 million during his tenure. He is the author of more than 25 books on Microsoft Windows and Office, including the recently released Windows 7 Inside Out.

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RE: For Vista, WGA gets tougher
Maks_ZB 25th Mar 2008
I was M$ Windows user for more than 20 years begining with Windows 3.0 and DOS. Vista WGA made me switch to Linux Ubuntu Desktop on my laptop computer. After 7 days of using Ubuntu Desktop, all I can say is: How stupid I was all this years? Why didn't I try linux before? Did you ever think you can do even more with Ubuntu than with Vista and all this for free and in much more fancy GUI? And yes, all of you who use any Only_Windows program because you have to, you can run it in Ubuntu too. Common be smart! Go to Ubuntu page and download ISO, burn DVD and you're 10 minutes to stable free OS with unlimited options.
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Just remember, Ed
Yagotta B. Kidding 4th Oct 2006
You are not the customer. Dell is the customer; you are the product.
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Upgrade to Vista? NFW!!!
gwrigg 4th Oct 2006
So in Vista, WGA will return with sharper teeth. Well, that's just bloody awesome news ... NOT!!!

Unless and until M$ resolves the boondoggle that WGA has become for XP, NFW will I upgrade to Vista, nor will I recommend that anyone else do so.
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So?
Yagotta B. Kidding 4th Oct 2006
Unless and until M$ resolves the boondoggle that WGA has become for XP, NFW will I upgrade to Vista, nor will I recommend that anyone else do so.

What-EVER. Eventually you'll have to replace that computer. If not because it breaks, then because your old one won't run the new MSVista-only applications.

Get over it.
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How long?
Patrick Jones 4th Oct 2006
How long will it be before we see any Vista only apps that don't have a suitable coutnerpart for other versions? Or one that is such a "gotta have" that people will want to upgrade? I can think of only a few that I have seen that are XP only and XP has been out for many years.
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I mean really!?!? Cable and disk TV providers won't not have set-top boxes to watch TV and provide video-on-demand. And, as long as there is XP in use, there will be applications that run on it (or Win2K, too). And, there will be Linux and Mac.

I really think what will happen is that through its efforts to enhance its OS division's bottom line, Micro$oft will open the door for the other OSes to gain enough market share to provide legitimate competition.

And, like I've said before, corporations won't stand for having to take on more IT hassles so do not look for them to make massive investments in changing over to Vista.

I really pity anyone who falls into the "gotta have" trap and pays for Vista because of that. They're the ones who will be duped.
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sure
beaner1111@... 4th Oct 2006
The day I am FORCED to "upgrade" to this operating system, is the day I quit my job as a system's administrator and go back to school in something that will never make me come accross a computer ever again.

Vista will suck THAT bad.
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And we will wave goodbye to ya.
No_Ax_to_Grind 4th Oct 2006
Have a nice trip.
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All Three of You, Huh
Cardhu 17th Oct 2006
You, yourself, and ... well, yourself.
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Deja Moo
Yagotta B. Kidding 4th Oct 2006
The day I am FORCED to "upgrade" to this operating system, is the day I quit my job as a system's administrator and go back to school in something that will never make me come accross a computer ever again.

The nice thing about this industry is you see the same posts every time MS comes out with a new release. The nice thing about the one above is that not a single word has changed since XP was in the wings.
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Wait a minute...
Rumpled_Foreskin 5th Oct 2006
What you and No_Axe are overlooking is that it's exactly this kind of bloated corporate arrogance that guarantees there'll be a change. Just as in the early 60's the American automotive industry said to itself: "small, energy efficient cars? Ha! The American consumer will take whatever we give them And we're gonna give 'em big, clunky gas guzzlers that fall apart in two years."

Next thing you know, it's hello Volkswagen, Hello Toyota.

You guys may be genius IT men, but this is elementary market evolution at work.
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Then use OSS!
jidsdabomb@... 6th Oct 2006
"What-EVER. Eventually you'll have to replace that computer. If not because it breaks, then because your old one won't run the new MSVista-only applications."

Why not just switch to OSS? It makes a Lot more sense, you have no stupid WGA threats hanging over your head, your computer will never go into "enhanced" "reduced functionality mode", you get a lot of cool games... If you want HL2, WoW, etc. then all you have to do is get Cedega. There's really not too much more to it. If you're not a gamer, then you have all the apps you need, WITH the OS. No more going to the local tech store to buy M$ Office, you get OpenOffice.org with your OS install (depending on your chosen distribution). If not, then all you have to do is download it. No cost (except for that of the internet - if it's too expensive, get someone with cable or DSL or something other to download and burn a cd for you), fewer bugs, fewer security vunerabilities, the works. OSS is the bane of M$, and it is what will free this world from the evil that is the M$ monopoly. LONG LIVE OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE!

--Jids
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Swim With The Sharks
Ole Man 7th Oct 2006
Good luck to you, Axey, Gotta, and any others that want to keep swimming with the sharks. They're getting bigger and meaner. I wouldn't bet my behind that I wouldn't get bitten. I'm staying out of the water and play with the sand puppies.
IF YOU Y'GONNA BE DUMB, Y'GOTTA BE TUFF
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Just think what could happen if the activation servers got hacked
and someone was able to deactivate every Windows key!
Imagine the horror that would arise as most every computer was
rendered useless!
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John Lennon Songs
Yagotta B. Kidding 4th Oct 2006
Imagine the horror that would arise as most every computer was rendered useless!

Imagine the incredible boost to Microsoft's revenues. 401(k) accounts all over the country would double overnight.

It could be the best thing for the economy in decades.
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I seriously doubt that
maldain 1st Nov 2006
The fact is that MicroSoft would take it in the shorts. It might not be such a bad thing for the rest of us since most governments run on MicroSoft products it would virtually eliminate governmental hassles at least until MicroSoft sent out new activation keys.
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... because the "feature" that starts the clock ticking when your system files gets hacked will presumably start if a virus infection "hacks" the right system files.

Can you imagine the "genuine advantage" that users will have if they get infected for some reason and then 3 days later that have to resurrect Windows?

That should have them rolling in the aisles .......
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I think they improved WGA yesterday
skiplarson 4th Oct 2006
I think MS must have done something to "improve" WGA yesterday.

There are a lot of posts on the MS WGA Forum from corporations that have all of a sudden experienced WGA failures on their valid VLK's.

I am glad that I only support a small number of computers, because I would hate to have to go to each one on a large campus to fix MS "improved" Advantage program.

That's the way to rack up those brownie points Microsoft happy
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If this really happens
samcurry 4th Oct 2006
Its time to purchase the MS stock.. happy That way as they get richer from this scam we stockholders can too.

Really this is gonna suck eggs. I did read somewhere that "ultimate" wasnt going to have the activation, wonder if thats going to change now?
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...then to what is it a prelude?
BFDonnelly 27th Oct 2006
What happens when other vendors get to use the APIs? Will they kill older versions of software, forcing upgrades? Will vendors put time limits on licenses? That is, will "YaddaYadda 2008" _really_be_ "YaddaYadda 2008?"
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Software as Product
Harry Bardal 4th Oct 2006
Software the "product" has always had fuzzy edges. Those edges
are getting sharper. License compliance is being policed to
maintain the revenue streams and shareholder confidence. This
represents the problem inherant in trying to maintain a
conspicuous level of growth when you already dominate a
market that has reached a growth threshold. Meanwhile the
threat of MS stock slipping belw $20 and an ensuing stock dump
looms large.

Microsoft will always try to stay within a tolerable limit. They do
respond to mass dissaproval. In light of this, this week's
indignity is hardly the issue. What should be the issue, is the
cumulative effect of all this stuff.

In any event, the power of software is becoming clear.

Ed intimated the other day, that the reason that OSX was not an
option, was because Apple tied it's hardware to the OS and this
was an anathema to the virtues of the free market. The prejudice
is clear. It give "product" priority to the atoms over the bits.

In requiring one to buy Apple hardware to get OSX, Apple
projects a software prejudice, despite all the comments to the
contrary. To buy a Apple brain, you're required to buy an Apple
body. The irony is, that Microsoft has always imposed the
opposite restrictions on their users. To buy a PC body, and to be
mollified by the "choice" of different shapes and colours of
extruded plastic, meant you were required to accept and pay for
a Windows brain. This clearly displays Microsoft's hardware
leverage. Which restriction is worse. You tell me.

These champions of the free market have carried a double
standard around the issue of choice. They gave software a pass.
It had fuzzy edges, it was easier then. It's not so easy anymore.

So yes this is about quality of software, first and foremost. Is
WGA a brilliant strategy for revenue generation, or is it just
buggy software? It doesn't really matter. This is about the fact
that the abstractions of language are infinitely more powerful
than the hardware object. As WGA raises some hackles and
software's preeminence is made clear, this has to be about using
the correct criteria to make decisions.
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Contributr
If you're gonna paraphrase...
Ed Bott 4th Oct 2006
Then be accurate. I never, ever, ever said anything like what you say I said:

"Ed intimated the other day, that the reason that OSX was not an option, was because Apple tied it's hardware to the OS and this was an anathema to the virtues of the free market."

Show me the direct quote. Cause (a) I don't believe that and (b) I never said it.
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Quote
Harry Bardal 4th Oct 2006
Here's the passage I was referring to, form your blog on
openness.

"If you want to convince me that Apple is suddenly becoming
more open, let me know when they allow OS X to run on
hardware they didn't build. Or even in virtual machines, the way
every other modern OS does."

Openness is presumably a virtue to the consumer? It makes a
system more attractive? That was my interpretation anyway. My
issue is that you can't hold double standards anymore between
hardware and software. I realize your mission is against WGA
false positives and that this is a good fight. There is this
important distinction to be made however. As Microsoft starts to
exercise their prerogative with WGA, there can be some question
as to their methods, and legit complaints if their software
doesn't work properly. It does draw into sharp relief, how the
standards that you apply to Apple's lack of hardware openness,
are not applied to software openness. Software has always been
legaly closed, it's just for the first time, it's starting to feel
practically closed. Software quality become paramount.

To purchase a PC is to inevitably purchase Windows with it.
Apple's terms are no more restrictive than any OEM's
"recommendation" of Windows XP. Regardless of which brand
your box is?they will all have the same brain. Repeating the
same brain in a virtual machine doesn't contribute to market
diversity, it underlines the problem. As we begin to understand
that the brain, not the body, rules the roost, Things like the WGA
problems serve to accentuate the hypocracy of some
conventional wisdoms.
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Contributr
Here's the part you missed
Ed Bott 4th Oct 2006
It was two paragraphs earlier:

"Is this wrong? Depends on your point of view, I guess. If I were an officer or shareholder of Apple, I would fiercely protect the monopoly I've created in the music business and would only open it up if forced to do so. Just as Microsoft does with its Windows monopoly. If I believed that openness was the Holy Grail of computing, I'd have a hard time with either company [Apple or Microsoft] .

Emphasis added for your benefit. That piece was about a columnist for a leading Web 2.0 site praising Apple for its openness. Apple deserves praise for a lot of things, but openness isn't one of them.

You seem to be under the impression that I have a vendetta against Apple. I don't. And you don't help your case by repeatedly (and yes, you've done it before) misquoting or distorting what I say. That's one reason why I respect your passion and your advocacy for Apple, Harry, but have a hard time responding to your arguments.
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Carefule with your choice of words
mrlinux 5th Oct 2006
"If you want to convince me that Apple is suddenly becoming
more open, let me know when they allow OS X to run on
hardware they didn't build. Or even in virtual machines, the way
every other modern OS does."
I dont think ZOS/AIX/HPUX/OS400, I dont think these Os's run on different hardware
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Contributr
Modern?
Ed Bott 5th Oct 2006
I should have qualified that with "consumer" and/or "mainstream business desktop".

But really, are AIX and OS400 really modern? They're both pushing 20 years old. Current, yes, and highly capable. But not modern.
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Untrue
techboy_z 4th Oct 2006
"Software has always been legaly closed"

No. The terms of licensing are chosen by the authors/producers of the software product. Yes, M$ has chosen to keep closed their software. That is not an inherent property of software.

In fact, what we're seeing here, with WGA vs. Apple vs. OSS, is a widening of the gap. WGA and Apple's hardware/software tying are both just different mechanisms for preventing the purchaser from using their copy of the OS in any manner they wish. No other product succumbs to this. If I wish to buy a DVD play to use it only as a doorstop...that's *my* business, not JVCs or Sony's. And to this date, no DVD producer will complain about my doing so. But M$ has a complaint if I take my copy of Windows and make it operational on a non-x86 platform. And Apple has a problem if I take OS-X from my Mac and find a way to run it on my PC...even if I trash the Mac and only ever use 1 instance of the OS. The OS as a product must be able to be used as the purchaser sees fit (sure, there are some legal limits, but they are of the nature of not using it to perform other crimes...not what hardware or what specific machine I choose to use the OS on). On the other side of this gap, we're seeing open source OSs that allow freedom to use the product as one sees fit, to experiment with it, to modify it, etc. In short, you're allowed to open the hood on your own vehicle. Closed software has not always been as closed as it is now. EULAs continue to become more and more onerous. And enforcement mechanisms have become more and more invasive. The lack of freedom and the onerousness of enforcement mechanisms are precisely what will drive people away from closed software and to open software.
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So what?
No_Ax_to_Grind 4th Oct 2006
I mean it seems to me the people screaming the loudest are the very people MS is targeting.

Oh, and just as an FYI: I have exactlly one "wrong" WGA report and a 5 minute phone call to the MS 800 number had it resolved. Shrug... No biggie.
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Contributr
Did you follow any of those links?
Ed Bott 4th Oct 2006
All four were from people who appear to be legitimate volume license customers. Why would Microsoft be "targeting" them?

And if you support 1000 PCs and all of a sudden message start popping up on some/many/all of them saying the software is potentially counterfeit, how does that reflect on you as an IT person?

I don't get your nonchalance about this.
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Consider the source
Yagotta B. Kidding 4th Oct 2006
I don't get your nonchalance about this.

Don has two unshakable beliefs:
1) Microsoft can do no wrong
2) Anyone accused of "piracy" is scum
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Forgot one YBK
Monkey_MCSE 4th Oct 2006
3. Because my company runs this way, everyone else's does.
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This is about like
a.techno.geek 5th Oct 2006
The person you talk about must be from Child Protective Service in the State of Michigan. Somebody makes accusation and you are automatically guilty until proven innocent and Child Protective Services can do no wrong.

MicroSoft/Child Protective Services
Client/Bad Parent

Close parallel, because M$ WGA services accusations equals guilty. Client has to plead case to use something they have already paid for to use it or pay for it again to use it.
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In addition, both (MS WGA/SPP/child protective services) are enforced by a government that is paid for by OUR tax dollars ... with even the DOJ backing down when they finally had a chance to do something about the monopoly owned by MS. Course no one seems to want to even deal with this problem when it comes to child protective services...so at least the DOJ made a show of trying to deal with MS's monopoly...not that a slap on the wrist even comes close to dealing with it.

What is it called when corporations are equivalent to citizens and the government protects them against the real citizens of a country?

There is a name for it...
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Ed, You're Dealing With No_Ax Here
itanalyst 4th Oct 2006
The man of 1000 IT jobs...he's claimed to be so many different things at one time I wouldn't believe him if he said he was a janitor.

Ignore him.
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But he is...
Rick_K 5th Oct 2006
A janitor. He works at Microsoft. Otherwise how would he have so
much "inside information"?
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Limited imagination
Yagotta B. Kidding 5th Oct 2006
Otherwise how would he have so much "inside information"?

Lots of possibilities -- he could be a proctologist, for instance.
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Must be a darned good one
Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User 6th Oct 2006
to sort through that much shh.. data!
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As I explained before.
No_Ax_to_Grind 4th Oct 2006
Anytime you apply somehting to 600 million of anything you assume a failure rate at some percentage.

The trick then of course is to have a saftey net for that tiny percentage, thats what the 800 numbers are for.

As far as 1000 PCs doing it? Have seen nothing that indicates its happened or will happen.

Yes, I think it is FAR more likely that there are volume licenes that are being abused and now they are getting caught.
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Volume licences
TonyMcS 4th Oct 2006
Yup they are being given out to everyone. The real culprits are the universities, where volume keys get handed out to staff willy nilly by anti (and pro) MS IT staff.
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NT
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Straighten The Mess Out
Ole Man 7th Oct 2006
Too bad Micro$oft doesn't employ you as CEO. With your great skills and awesome knowledge you could straighten this whole mess out fast. Catch them crooks and slap the cuffs on them. Throw them in prison where they belong. They aint got no business using a computer ennyhow if they don't bow down to the Micro$oft God.
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Still anecdotees?
TonyMcS 4th Oct 2006
Try getting some data Ed. Real data. With the amount of computers Windows is used on, I want to see some real figures rather than some dubious anecdotes.
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No Biggie
voska 4th Oct 2006
Say I buy a computer that has OEM Vista and I use it for a few years then BOOM one day it say I'm illegit and have pay again. No big deal, I'll ditch Microsoft and install Linux and my next PC purchase will be a Mac. Simple solution to simple problem.

This happens enough and Microsoft will change thier tune or Microsoft will strive to get it right the first time and we legit users won't even notice.

In the end pirates will continue to pirate, that's what they do. And if Microsoft some how manages to foil thier every effort then Microsoft will just lose marketshare. Not that they can't spare 30% market share and still make hoards of profits so again no big deal.

In fact one could look at this on the brighter side and see this as the potetial door opening for the competition. Anyone out willing to step through that door? If not then Microsoft continues same old same old.
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They can't give *nix away
TonyMcS 4th Oct 2006
Face it Linux is free. If people were actually having the trouble with Windows that the cultists hear maintain, then what would stop people using such a powerful and free OS? THe answer is it isn't. Neither free or powerful. Applications are the reasons for computers, not OSs and the vast majority of apps are on Windows.

But hey, let's all wait for the revolution to come wink
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Know Less Than Nothing
Ole Man 7th Oct 2006
If I knew less than nothing about a subject I think i'd keep my mouth shut.
You are wrong on all counts. LINUX IS FREE. LINUX IS POWERFUL. LINUX HAS MANY MANY MORE APPLICATIONS THAN WINDOWS.
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Re: Know Less Than Nothing
cnfrisch 8th Oct 2006
Linux is a hobbist's O/S which requires a massive amount of time to install and setup properly. With Windows, you're up and running in less than an hour.
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That is a flat out right lie.
Linux User 147560 8th Oct 2006
And I call bulls*it on it and your post.

Linux is NOT a hobbiest OS anymore, it is being used in businesses around the world for a variety of things from desktop to high end server.

You cannot get a Window machine up in an hour with the same level of security and functionality (read applications installed and ready to use) let alone before a Linux machine! The ONLY possible way is a mirror install and even then you still have to make sure all the security updates are current and installed as well as all apps are functional and installed. And even then... an hour? Right! devil
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well....
Badgered 9th Oct 2006
I do agree that the post you are referring to is full of cow pies.

Here's my problem... The software we currently run, is run on an MS OS. To purchase new software (Office Suites, ERP system, etc.), replace said software, and train the users on that new software would not only be a logistical nightmare, but also initally very expensive.

We are a smaller company and at first glance you'd think, it should be easy to convert them. But not so... In this 1 man I.T. Department, trying to get the funding, resources, and everyone behind the movement is impossible.

Linux could be the greatest OS to ever hit the planet, but that doesn't do me any good if I (alone) have to replace my entire network software and retrain everyone.

Does it totally suck to be forced into this position?.... absolutley. Unfortunately, IMHO, Linux has not yet become the alternative. It may, in time... but not yet.
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Re: Badgered
maldain 1st Nov 2006
You might want to play around with either Suse or Mandriva distro's as both are fairly easy to install and use. Open Office seems to be a low learning curve conversion from MS Office though most users will gain additional applications which will make them more productive but for somebody who has no experience with databases will find OpenOffice base has bit of learning curve as would access. All in all, the conversion might not be as difficult as you think. Try installing it and playing around with it before you dismiss it. That's what we're doing here at my company. We're finding some interesting things about the learning curve. For regular users who type letters run spread sheets. Our main apps are run though terminal emulation so it was pretty easy to convert those over just point an ssh connection to the appropriate place.
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Bass-Ackwards
Ole Man 9th Oct 2006
As usual, you've got it a$$- backwards.
I am not a hobbyist.
Linux installs much faster (and easier) than Windows.
When was the last time you installed Linux?
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Absolute Crap!!!
DagonSphere 24th Oct 2006
BULLSH*T!!!

Linux is a hobbist's O/S

I do real work at home and at work with Linux. At home, I balance my checkbook, surf the web, touch up and print photos, and many other things. Pretty painlessly, might I add. I do believe Yahoo uses Linux. Many webhosts use Linux. Hardly a hobbyists OS.

which requires a massive amount of time to install and setup properly.

I've installed DSL Linux on a friend's Celron 400MHz with a massive 64 MB of memory and a 9 Gig HDD in less than 15 minutes. Complete with a high speed aDSL internet connection and a GUI. And the system runs quicker and more stable than the W98 that was on it before.

Ubuntu has a GUI installer that's better than M$'s, and requires no more technical knowledge to install than any version of Windows. Want a graphical firewall?? Just sudo apt-get install firestarter. Done. Total time, maybe 40 minutes after my tweaks. I can't remember for sure. I only had to install it once.

Yes, there are versions of Linux (Gentoo) that can take massive amounts of time to install, based on the need to massivly customize and tweak the system. But it's NOT the only way.

With Windows, you're up and running in less than an hour.

You might be able to get Windows installed in less than an hour if you quick format the drive. But if your doing a full format on a 200+GB drive, go grab a cup of coffee, read the paper, and come back later. But you will not get all your software, printer drivers, and user/group accounts installed in that time.

How about disaster recovery? I have a single floppy that holds the configuration files for my server. This includes installing additional software, adding configuration files, user/group settings, etc.

I use Linux at home to do all the things (and more) I use to do with M$ Windows -- only better -- IMO. It comes packed with useful programs, better security, and most of all, choices.

Your comment is, at best, completely bogus.
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RE: For Vista, WGA gets tougher
Maks_ZB 25th Mar 2008
I was M$ Windows user for more than 20 years begining with Windows 3.0 and DOS. Vista WGA made me switch to Linux Ubuntu Desktop on my laptop computer. After 7 days of using Ubuntu Desktop, all I can say is: How stupid I was all this years? Why didn't I try linux before? Did you ever think you can do even more with Ubuntu than with Vista and all this for free and in much more fancy GUI? And yes, all of you who use any Only_Windows program because you have to, you can run it in Ubuntu too. Common be smart! Go to Ubuntu page and download ISO, burn DVD and you're 10 minutes to stable free OS with unlimited options.

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