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How many Intel CPUs will fail the XP Mode test in Windows 7?

By | May 3, 2009, 11:27am PDT

Summary: How much positive Windows 7 buzz is in danger of being wiped out in the next few weeks and months when consumers and business buyers discover that a heavily hyped new Windows 7 feature, Windows XP Mode, won’t work on some current dual- and quad-core CPUs from Intel? Also, check your desktop or mobile CPU against my list to see whether your PC passes or fails.

Some of the most popular PCs on the market today, equipped with fast and powerful dual- and quad-core CPUs, won’t be able to use the vaunted Windows XP Mode in Windows 7.

When Windows Vista launched, Intel and Microsoft both got a black eye over the infamous “Vista Capable” logo. That sticker was slapped on PCs running some of Intel’s most popular graphics chips, even though they wouldn’t run the new Aero graphics. Microsoft is still battling in court with angry customers (and their lawyers) who felt betrayed by that marketing campaign.

Now, three years later, it appears to be time for the “Vista Capable” sequel. How much positive Windows 7 buzz will be wiped out in coming weeks and months when consumers and business buyers discover that a heavily hyped new Windows 7 feature, XP Mode, won’t work on some Intel-based products? The problem is caused by the Byzantine way Intel packages its CPU technology—adding, removing, and tweaking features like bus speed and cache size to hit the widest variety of price points for PC makers.

The new Windows Virtual PC (now available as a beta release for the Windows 7 Release Candidate) requires hardware-assisted virtualization. For your PC to run XP Mode in Windows 7, the CPU has to support Intel Virtualization Technology (Intel VT) or AMD Virtualization (AMD-V), and this support has to be enabled in the BIOS.

In the case of Intel’s phenomenally confusing product matrix, VT support is added and removed from CPU models for reasons that have more to do with marketing than technology. You can’t necessarily tell from the model number whether VT support is present or not. If you buy a brand-new PC and pick the wrong CPU, Windows Virtual PC won’t be able to host the virtual machine that powers XP Mode. And spending more money can actually hurt you in some configurations.

Here’s a real-world example. Dell’s Vostro 420 is a well-built, no-frills desktop PC designed for the small and medium business market. The screen grab below shows the current lineup of CPUs that you can choose from when you build this system to order at Dell’s website. Four of the six options support Intel VT; I’ve circled the two CPUs that don’t support VT.

If you stay with the entry-level CPU, XP Mode won’t run on this PC. So you decide to upgrade the E7400 to an E8500 for $90. Problem solved! Although both are members of the Core 2 Duo family, the E8500 supports Intel VT, whereas the E7400 doesn’t.

But then you realize that for a measly $40 more you can go from a dual-core processor to the Core 2 Quad Q8200. Great idea! Unless you want to use any of those four CPU cores to run Windows Virtual PC, that is. The Q8200, you see, lacks VT support. For that, you need the Q9400, Q9550, or Q9650.

I had noticed this previously but revisited the topic today after my buddy Dwight Silverman commented, with some surprise, that his desktop PC with a Core 2 Quad Q8200 won’t support XP Mode (“Bummer”), but the Core 2 Duo E6600 in an older Mac does just fine. (“I guess I’ll be upgrading my Boot Camp partition”)

I haven’t looked at Intel’s CPU matrix since last summer, when I was researching which quad-core CPUs had some staying power. I have purchased three PCs with quad-core CPUs since then; thankfully, I avoided the Q8xxx series and went with the Q6600, Q9300, and Q9450, all of which support Intel VT.

This stuff is confusing, though. So, as a public service, I paid a visit to the Intel Processor Spec Finder, where I searched all modern CPU families, desktop and mobile, to see which ones support hardware virtualization. I copied the results to an Excel spreadsheet, created a few PivotTables, and came up with quick reference tables that can help you see at a glance whether your CPU can pass the XP Mode test.

Update: A reader passes along a recent news report that Intel plans to update five of its processors to add VT support: the Core 2 Quad Q8300, Core 2 Duo E7400 and E7500, and Pentium E5300 and E5400 are slated to get the new designs. That figures to make the landscape even more confusing, with some CPUs having VT support or not depending on the revision number.

If you’re curious whether your system has Intel VT support, check out the tables on the following two pages.

Next page: Intel desktop CPUs –>

 

More from “The Ed Bott Report”

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Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications.

Disclosure

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is a freelance technical journalist and book author. All work that Ed does is on a contractual basis.

Since 1994, Ed has written more than 25 books about Microsoft Windows and Office. Along with various co-authors, Ed is completely responsible for the content of the books he writes. As a key part of his contractual relationship with publishers, he gives them permission to print and distribute the content he writes and to pay him a royalty based on the actual sales of those books. Ed's books written prior to fall 2011 have been distributed by Que Publishing (a division of Pearson Education) and by Microsoft Press. As of November 2011, Ed is a partner in the independent publishing company Fair Trade Digital Exchange, which exclusively publishes his books.

On occasion, Ed accepts consulting assignments. In recent years, he has worked as an expert witness in cases where his experience and knowledge of Microsoft and Microsoft Windows have been useful. In each such case, his compensation is on an hourly basis, and he is hired as a witness, not an advocate.

Ed does not own stock or have any other financial interest in Microsoft or any other software company. He owns 500 shares of stock in EMC Corporation, which was purchased before the company's acquisition of VMware. In addition, he owns 350 shares of stock in Intel Corporation, purchased more than two years ago. All stocks are held in retirement accounts for long-term growth.

Ed does not accept gifts from companies he covers. All hardware products he writes about are purchased with his own funds or are review units covered under formal loan agreements and are returned after the review is complete.

Biography

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications. He's served as editor of the U.S. edition of PC Computing and managing editor of PC World; both publications had monthly paid circulation in excess of 1 million during his tenure. He is the author of more than 25 books on Microsoft Windows and Office, including the recently released Windows 7 Inside Out.

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Kolo Toure
grahamrix 18th Oct
silver price today
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Good post
RickyF 3rd May 2009
Thanks Ed, we all need this information.
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I second the sentiment (nt)
tikigawd 4th May 2009
nt
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(nt)
Lovs2look 25th Jun 2009
(nt) what a logical reply!
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I guess the easiest way to avoid most of this confusion is to run a licensed copy of XP under VMWare and forget Microsoft's half-axed solution.
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Or run a licenced copy of XP ...
de-void-21165590650301806002836337787023 4th May 2009
... on a free copy of VirtualPC.
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which means
akulkis 4th May 2009
paying even MORE $$$ to Redmond.

I'll just pass and stick with Linux.
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Or run a licensed copy of XP.
Amaroq 20th May 2009
Period.
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It looks to me like it has to do with graphics memory.
No More Microsoft Software Ever! 5th May 2009
6MB or more lets the XP mode run. 4MB or less refused to run the XP Virtual mode.
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That's not graphics memory,
nix_hed 5th May 2009
that's processor L2 cache. Here's your sign.
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@RickyF I do hope you all know Microsoft has relesed an update to Windows XP mode, so you do NOT have to have Intel's VT or Amd- V
They actually relesed it a while back.
They also released it WAY before May, so I dont know what you are all talking about. Go look on the XP mode download page. You intsall/download last out of all three things on the page.
@RickyF Yes you right we all need this information and you give it thanks to the sharing. custom book report | buy Admission essay | buy thesis
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Contributr
Check your CPU against the tables here and let me know. Be sure to include the PC manufacturer name and model.

For instance, I'm typing this on an HP Pavilion Elite m9300t with a Q9450 CPU, which does support VT.

My test machine, running along side it, is a Dell XPS 420 with a quad-core Q6600, which also supports VT (and is in fact running Windows Virtual PC on the Windows 7 RC).
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Contributr
Want to do the same post ...
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes 3rd May 2009
... for AMD CPUs? happy
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Contributr
I wish I had time
Ed Bott 3rd May 2009
I know Intel CPUs pretty well so I was able to do this quickly. I'm less conversant with AMD's line, so it would take some time to get up to speed.

Maybe one of my ZDNet blogging colleagues could do this... wink
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Contributr
If you'll do the table...
Ed Bott Updated - 3rd May 2009
I'll publish it here.

Caveat: Info can't come from Wikipedia. Has to come from original source and be fully fact-checked.

The trouble with Wikipedia, as wonderful as it is, is that it's a secondary source.
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AMD-V
TommyLA 4th May 2009
All AMD Phenom & Phenom II CPUs support AMD-V
http://www.amd.com/us-
en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_1533
1_15917^15919,00.html
http://www.amd.com/us-
en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_1533
1_15917^15919,00.html

but not all of the Athlon 64 X2 chips support
AMD-V, but atm those you can buy support AMD-V,
aka Brisbane and Windsor cores

this makes AMD support virtualization more than
Intel, why? Q8200 dont support virtualization
but Phenom II 810 supports virtualization

AMD Athlon X2 7750 Black Edition supports
virtualization Core 2 Duo E7400 dont
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710
TommyLA 4th May 2009
then AMD Phenom II 710 is a better comparison and
also got AMD-V
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(nt)
Lovs2look 25th Jun 2009
(nt)
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Just to clarify, you shouldn't say "support virtualization"
daboochmeister Updated - 22nd May 2009
To be clear, virtualization is supported in the other chipsets ... as long as the virtualization product involved doesn't require the AMD-V or Intel VT hardware virtualization support interfaces (and plenty do). The root issue is that Microsoft selected a virtualization approach that doesn't support the other chipsets.

I know you know this, I just thought someone reading your note might get the wrong impression, if they didn't remember the whole context.

What I HAVEN'T seen is any specific analysis of whether running XP on Win7 in one of those other virtualization tools (VirtualBox, VMWare, etc.) works cleanly, and is therefore an option. That I don't know.
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Contributr
I have run XP on VirtualBox in Win7
Ed Bott 22nd May 2009
Runs great without VT.
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Contributr
It's both easy and messy ...
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes 4th May 2009
...

It's easy in that every AMD CPU that's DDR2 compatible or higher is AMD-V ready EXCEPT for Semprons. That means that Socket AM2/AM2+/AM3 CPUs EXCEPT for Semprons are all AMD-V capable.

Socket 939 pieces or earlier are not.

All Turion 64 X2s are AMD-V ready.
All Opterons from the 1200 series onward are AMD-V ready.

It's messy when it comes to the Athlon X2 64s in that, say, you can have an the 3800+, 4200+, 4400+, 4600+ and 4800+ parts in both 939 and AM2 ... just remember that 939 parts aren't AMD-V ready.
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Contributr
And then there's BIOS support
Ed Bott 4th May 2009
I asked a colleague to check an older system that has an AMD-V compatible Turion 64 X2. No option in the BIOS to turn it on, and never willbe, given that this system is nearly three years old.
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Contributr
When you add BIOS support into the mix ...
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes Updated - 4th May 2009
... you are looking at systems out there that would need their BIOSes updated (or tweaked) before it would work. And then there will be systems with the right chip but no BIOS support.

It's a mess ...
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Safe to say...
ShadowGIATL 4th May 2009
this won't be technology for the average user, and only after careful consideration will it be for the power user.

I fear this will become a backlash for MS, although their heart was in the right place.

One of those darn if you do, darn if you don't kinda things.
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Contributr
@ShadowGIATL ...
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes 4th May 2009
... I agree ...

I'm hoping that Microsoft will release a tool, but like Ed says, this doesn't help with future machines.

... maybe a logo program ...
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@Adrian
ShadowGIATL 4th May 2009
At first I thought about the deep water they got into over the "Vista Capable" logo program, but then I though, well maybe they learned their lesson.

If they leave out the spin, and promote it correctly, I could really see a great marketing leverage tool for them here.

This would help not only those looking to use Windows Virtual PC, but also anyone looking to use any brand of virtualization.

At first I admit I didn't see a great immediate future in VT, but now that it has matured I can see it has real potential. I feel that MS, even if it's not everyone's favorite, is in great position to promote VT if they play their cards right. Let's hope they do for the sake of all brands, as VT could bridge a lot of gaps.
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You are...
fairportfan 5th May 2009
...a Bad Man.
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Turned on by default?
peter_erskine@... 4th May 2009
Could it be that with Turion 64 X2 it's on anyway, like with my Fujitsu Siemens Amilo?
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AMD CPU lineup just as confusing
djchandler 4th May 2009
I just did a build for which virtualization was a primary concern. It seems you're okay as long as you go with a Phenom or Phenom II. But sorting out the dual cores was confusing. I settled on an X2 7750 and an AMD 780/SB700 chipset on a Gigabyte MB. Virtualization is enabled in the BIOS. Can't wait to get my hands on Windows 7 RC to give it a spin.

MB, CPU and 4GB ram for $200 (before sales tax)-when I get my rebates back it comes in at about $175. A certain well known and favorite supplier was offering free shipping, but I purchased locally anyway and actually came out a little ahead. Amazing! If you have some spare cash right now the deals are great.
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Do the same for AMD CPUs
rMatey 4th May 2009
Second that motion!!!
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nope :/
Kruton@... 3rd May 2009
I just bought a Quad Q8300 a few weeks ago. I didn't put much thought into VT. My dad has a Core 2 Duo that supports it so I just assumed that my quad core would because that would only * twitch * make sense.
...and this is what I get for deviating from my AMD loyalty.

On the flip side, I test drove Win7 for a weekend to see how it felt doing my daily activities for a few days and everything ran fine so I may never even need XP mode.
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My PC info
MGP2 3rd May 2009
Systemax Venture - SYX-P5GC-MX

Below is a print out from the Intel CPUID utility.

Intel(R) Processor Identification Utility
Version: 3.1.20060901
Time Stamp: 2009/05/03 22:04:24
Number of processors in system: 1
Current processor: #1
Processor Name: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 925 3.00GHz
Type: 0
Family: F
Model: 6
Stepping: 5
Revision: 9
L1 Instruction Cache: 12 K?ops
L1 Data Cache: 16 KB
L2 Cache: 2 MB
Packaging: LGA775
EIST: Yes
MMX(TM): Yes
SIMD: Yes
SIMD2: Yes
SIMD3: Yes
Enhanced Halt State: Yes
Execute Disable Bit: No
Hyper-Threading Technology: No
Intel(R) Extended Memory 64 Technology: Yes
Intel(R) Virtualization Technology: No
Expected Processor Frequency: 3.0 GHz
Reported Processor Frequency: 3.0 GHz
Expected System Bus Frequency: 800 MHz
Reported System Bus Frequency: 800 MHz
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Annoyingly, my PC does not.
voyager529 3rd May 2009
Hey Ed,

I've got an HP Pavilion DV9030us with an Intel Core 2 Duo T5500. The processor supports virtualization according to your table, but my current BIOS does not.

According to the HP support site for the laptop, last BIOS update for it was from November of 2007. I'm guessing that this laptop will never gain virtualization support.

Joey
but win xp runs just fine in virtual box on my machine. why would these extremely high end processors NOT be able to virtualize xp?
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Ummm....
ShadowGIATL 4th May 2009
All modern processors can run virtualization in software. The point here is that Windows Virtual PC requires HARDWARE VT.

This could be yet another source of confusion for some people I can see. Boy will this XP Mode be quite the fiasco.
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Microsoft not serious about virtualisation.
peter_erskine@... 4th May 2009
Do you ever get the feeling that MS aren't making a serious effort over virtual machines in general? As open-source and free VM software is considerably better than anything MS has to offer, it looks like they are not trying.
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Up to this point...
ShadowGIATL 4th May 2009
No... they haven't been. Windows Virtual PC isn't designed to be a "virtual machine" from what I see. It is merely there to provide backward compatiblity without having to use fat binary. If you include the backward compatibilty in the OS, then you add boat, which is something MS has taken heat for over the years. They aim to help eliminate this, and so effectivly so, but offering those that really need it, an XP mode.

As to whether this will lead to them taking VT more serious in the future? One can only hope.
just run xp in virtualbox. wouldn't that work?
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In short... no...
ShadowGIATL Updated - 4th May 2009
Windows Virtual PC is not intended to be a true "virtual machine." If you don't have VT built in and you need XP, then obviously you will need a software VM. WVP is not meant for running OS's, but rather running apps in an OS environment; an "XP Mode."

However, if you use something other then WMP to run your XP apps, then you will need a license for that OS.

If MS actually included a real VM like Hyper-V on their retail consumer OS, then they'd be sued 128 ways from 30 something companies, and the EU.

This is not their intent... although the past makes you wonder why they didn't try to do just that. If nothing else... you have to admit MS sports a big brass pair most of the time.
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If not, do try it... on older, and newer hardware to get a feel. I have not tried Win 7 yet, but will.. though not on my main PC, or in a VM.

I would expect Ole Pigeon to be right... the most use for XP mode to be for custom business apps. But, that really isn't the point here. People are, in general, going to believe what they want or what they are told by advertising, or word of mouth.. or any convoluted combination. If the general "belief" is that Win7 is "Better than Vista, and runs everything you now own on WinXP" then that is exactly what the 'herd' of consumers will expect out of it.

If the bulk of PCs, which when you look at the general audience of potential "upgraders" here is large and varied, do not run -out of the box- this "win XP mode" it will get a lot more attention then just "my machine isn't -really- 'vista capable'"

I make no excuses for Microsoft, now or in the past. I support their products in so much as many customers use it, and it keeps me busy. Their past track record of business practices, hype, over selling, and any other thing you can name, shows that they will likely -not- take the proper steps to mitigate this potential mushroom... though I have the feeling that after the WindowsME like failure that is Vista, Win7 will be regarded eventually as 'much better' and therefore life will go on.

To clarify- the home user will -expect- their current apps to work in Win7. Eventually, most probably will, even games. But that will not be the case right off the bat. People are going to get -extremly- frustrated very quickly, and most people have no idea what a VM or Virtualization is, or that win7 requires it as part of their cpu or if it can be upgraded, and even if it can their board might not.

No logo, no downloadable tool and no well meaning geek friend are going to adequately explain this to them; home users or corporate managers alike. They will simply expect to be able to do what they do, and, for a fair percentage of them, they will not -be- able to. Microsoft, and support people all down the line are going to look like a bunch of jerks to those few, and I do not relish the look I am sure I will encounter from this eventually, just as I have seen many times before trying to explain the simple truth that something they 'just bought' can't do what they thought it would.

And to anyone suggesting to "just run a copy of windows XP in a virtual box... that will be ok" Go ask grand ma, your school principal, the neighbor on each side of you, the person down at the grocery store and one more random person to do that. Now, for the possibly one person in that lot who could, ask them how it runs. Then ask them how much it bogs their machine, can it run graphics well, or heaven forbid a game. Then take into account that it would need a full, legal XP license, money, boot time, memory, frustration and if they figured out the hoops to copy and paste or move files in and out of it. Plus I can see it now- infected VM botnets, oh the joy.

No, VMs are not bad. In fact.. I expect that a fully supported 'xp mode' machine may run most things especially well. VMs are amazing things, and indispensable for many uses. But they are very different things.

I wish Win7 well, I hope it performs and becomes everything MS et al says it can be, because I would like to have a MS system I could use that was better. One where security was the thought from the ground up... and the main programs directory wasn't the default catch all for modules, addons, configs, screenshots, logs and other things that are specific to the user: true multi-user..which XP is absolutely not, and so many programmers out there seem to not care about. I also wish more application developers made their software for multiple platforms... especially the relatively few that keep people locked into just one OS.
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It runs many games just fine, as long as it's graphics card requirements
aren't all that high. I can also run several different high-end video editing
apps using Fusion as well (though AVID works much better on Mac OS
than it does in Windows, and there's a little monster called Final Cut...)

As long as Microsoft gets virtualization right with Win7, I don't see too
many problems with WinXP mode for home users.
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Nope, it does not pass...BUT...
Master Guru 3rd May 2009
But, it does not matter. I have no apps that don't work well with both Vista and Windows 7 also.

Ed,

Can you create a list of commonly used apps that won't run in Windows 7? I'm interested in what does not, which I thought were just some OLD custom business apps as a rule.
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Contributr
Interesting idea
Ed Bott 3rd May 2009
QuickBooks goes near the top of the list, of course, all but the curernt version. I have a USB scanner that has XP drivers but doesn't support Vista or Win7 (and definitely doesn't work under x64 Win7).

Let me see what I can turn up.
I have a feeling that the people who get the most out of this are business
with custom apps.
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That's a good point why do we need XP mode?
Randalllind Updated - 4th May 2009
If you can't play games etc in it. How is Virtual XP going to make XP users want Windows 7?

My new laptop doesn't support it and neither does my AMD 64 Athlon 3700+ however I can run a normal XP copy in Virtal PC 2007.
People use Windows for other tasks, not just games. XP mode might be
important to a business that can't (or won't) upgrade customized
software that won't work with Vista or 7.
0 Votes
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Kolo Toure
grahamrix 18th Oct
silver price today

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