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Linux won't be locked out of Windows 8 PCs, but FUD continues

By | January 16, 2012, 6:23am PST

Summary: A new draft of Microsoft’s Windows 8 hardware certification specs confirms what we already knew: the new Secure Boot feature won’t lock out Linux on hundreds of millions of new PCs. But Linux backers are demanding the right to hack a new class of devices that doesn’t yet exist.

Lawyers have an old saying: If the facts are on your side, pound the facts. If the law is on your side, pound the law. If neither is on your side, pound the table.

A tiny but vocal minority of Linux fanatics are pounding the table today over a new security feature called Secure Boot that will be introduced in Windows 8, shrilly accusing Microsoft once again of a conspiracy to “lock out” Linux.

They are pounding the table because the facts are not on their side. Very large market forces are not on their side. Any prospective Windows 8 user should not be on their side.

So what’s really going on?

Related posts:

Back in September, the Linux community expressed dire fears that Microsoft was plotting to lock out Linux in new PCs sold with Windows 8. The reality has now emerged, in the form of a detailed document from Microsoft that outlines requirements for Windows 8 certification on hardware. That document proves those fears were completely unfounded.

Indeed, if you read the latest headlines, you need to pay careful attention to the Orwellian changes in wording to see just how absurd the current arguments are.

Here’s the headline from my colleague Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols’ post on September 23, 2011:

Microsoft to stop Linux, older Windows, from running on Windows 8 PCs

And here’s the headline from his January 13, 2012 update:

Microsoft to lock out other operating systems from Windows 8 ARM PCs & devices

See how “Windows 8 PCs” turned into “Windows 8 ARM PCs and devices”? That’s a huge difference. For one thing, there’s no such thing as a “Windows 8 ARM PC.” The initial wave of ARM-based devices running Windows 8 will be tablets that run a subset of the full Windows 8 operating system, compiled for a completely different architecture. Even if later models add keyboards and trackpads, they will still not be PCs, any more than an iPad is a PC.

And they don’t exist yet.

Now let’s talk about Windows 8 PCs. The new specifications make it very clear:

All versions of Windows 8 shall be UEFI-compatible …

All client systems must support UEFI Secure boot …

MANDATORY: Enable/Disable Secure Boot. On non-ARM systems, it is required to implement the ability to disable Secure Boot via firmware setup. A physically present user must be allowed to disable Secure Boot via firmware setup without possession of PKpriv [the private key that supports Secure Boot].

“Non-ARM systems” means the classic x86 PC design. Roughly 400 million of these devices will be sold this year, and probably an equivalent number will be sold in the first year that Windows 8 is available. Every single one of those PCs will have the ability to run older versions of Windows, Linux, or a new operating system you create yourself. To do so, you will simply have to flip a bit in the system’s setup screen.

Sorry, conspiracy theorists. This does not represent “Microsoft’s latest attempt to abuse their PC monopoly power .” Quite the opposite. In the general-purpose PC segment, where small vestiges of Microsoft’s one-time monopoly still exist, this new security feature will be enabled by default, but the option to disable it will be mandatory. No lock-out for Linux.

In other words, Linux community, your fears were unfounded. So why the dire new headlines?

Ah, because those same certification guidelines from Microsoft include this phrase: “Disabling Secure [Boot] MUST NOT be possible on ARM systems.”

Windows 8 ARM systems do not yet exist. When they do ship, late this year or early next year, they will consist exclusively of tablets designed to run Metro-style apps. They will not run x86 software. They represent a close collaboration between a small number of hardware makers and Microsoft to build a secure, high-performance system that will be starting fresh in a market dominated by iPads and Android tablets.

If a PC maker decides to build an ARM-based system and install something other than Windows 8 on it, they can tell Microsoft to drop dead and design the firmware any way they want. The Secure Boot requirements apply only to OEMs who sell an ARM-based device and Windows 8 as a complete package.

If you disable Secure Boot on a Windows 8 ARM tablet, you have effectively bricked it. No other currently available operating systems, including any version of Windows, will run on it. No currently shipping version of Linux or Android will run on it.

This feature is indeed designed to make the next generation of PCs more secure by design, by making it impossible for malware authors to coerce users into installing rootkits that take over a machine before the operating system has a chance to boot. That’s a very good thing.

Microsoft has done the right thing by making this feature user-configurable on general-purpose PCs that use the x86 standard. That preserves freedom of choice, even at a slight cost in security.

But on the new, built-from-scratch ARM-based platforms, the Linux community is literally asking Microsoft to compromise user security so that they can hack a new platform.

The correct answer to that request, in my opinion, is a firm no.

Of course, hackers will figure out a way to defeat UEFI-based protections in ARM-based Windows tablets, just as they have figured out how to mod Android tablets and jailbreak iPads. They could even work with PC manufacturers to create a mechanism by which the signatures for Linux bootloaders are included in new UEFI-based ARM systems.

But apparently it’s much more fun to pound the table.

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Topics

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications.

Disclosure

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is a freelance technical journalist and book author. All work that Ed does is on a contractual basis.

Since 1994, Ed has written more than 25 books about Microsoft Windows and Office. Along with various co-authors, Ed is completely responsible for the content of the books he writes. As a key part of his contractual relationship with publishers, he gives them permission to print and distribute the content he writes and to pay him a royalty based on the actual sales of those books. Ed's books written prior to fall 2011 have been distributed by Que Publishing (a division of Pearson Education) and by Microsoft Press. As of November 2011, Ed is a partner in the independent publishing company Fair Trade Digital Exchange, which exclusively publishes his books.

On occasion, Ed accepts consulting assignments. In recent years, he has worked as an expert witness in cases where his experience and knowledge of Microsoft and Microsoft Windows have been useful. In each such case, his compensation is on an hourly basis, and he is hired as a witness, not an advocate.

Ed does not own stock or have any other financial interest in Microsoft or any other software company. He owns 500 shares of stock in EMC Corporation, which was purchased before the company's acquisition of VMware. In addition, he owns 350 shares of stock in Intel Corporation, purchased more than two years ago. All stocks are held in retirement accounts for long-term growth.

Ed does not accept gifts from companies he covers. All hardware products he writes about are purchased with his own funds or are review units covered under formal loan agreements and are returned after the review is complete.

Biography

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications. He's served as editor of the U.S. edition of PC Computing and managing editor of PC World; both publications had monthly paid circulation in excess of 1 million during his tenure. He is the author of more than 25 books on Microsoft Windows and Office, including the recently released Windows 7 Inside Out.

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Malware still has a leg up on windows
bran2222 15th Apr
People act as if Microsoft has reformed its operating system. Windows still holds its foundations of a single user rather than multi. The multiple users in windows is an illusion. Permissions for non privillaged users can easily be elevated. Windows usally builds new code on top of old code.

Stopping malware before it boots up is also stupid. Malware is getting smarter it can infect the kernel and it is undetectable.

Malware is now making jumps to infect video cards and bios chips. Those are areas that cannot be protect and WIndows makes them an easy target. With microsoft enabling this new technology they are painting a bull's eye on thier clients saying hit us if you can.

Those fortunate enough to use GNU/Linux, Unix, Mac should be relatively safe from infection.

If it says Microsoft an infection is guarnteed, end users should be smart enough to practice safe usage of thier systems. 95% of windows users are easily manipulated by social engineering
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Linux has been on working on ARM devices for years. Sure, it might not run on the forthcoming Windows 8 tablets as it is now, because of variations in how boot works and other minor hardware differences; but you can bet that, if there was no secure boot requirement, people would have it up and running quite soon after they were to become available.

I understand the benefits of secure boot, and I am all for having it enabled by default on all new machines shipping with Windows 8. But I also think that you should be allowed to choose the software that runs on hardware that you own. The option to disable secure boot should be allowed, as it is on x86 hardware; or, a possibly better option would be the ability to add your own trusted keys to the secure boot mechanism so that Linux and other OS's could take advantage of the secure boot functionality.

Of course, it remains to be seen how successful Windows 8 ARM devices will be in the market. This may turn out to be a non-issue.
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Microsoft is doing a good thing
adacosta38 16th Jan
@aaron44126 I am sick of users installing Linux just say they want to try it out only to run back to me begging to get rid of it and reinstall Windows.
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How is it...
Letophoro 16th Jan
@adacosta38

That users are technically competent enough to install Linux by themselves, but need you to reinstall Windows? All of the users that I've had to install Windows for lack the necessary skills to install any OS, even Windows.
@adacosta38
that's the main reason legal action is required:
http://techrights.org/2012/01/16/strong-arm/
@adacosta38

The reason they need to beg you to reinstall Windows is because they don't have the needed key to the kingdom.

Microsoft business model since the day it opened it's doors was to create barriers to make changing OS difficult or impossible. It is standard practice but no one did it better than Microsoft.

I think people are concerned about secure boot because they do not trust Microsoft. Microsoft can say whatever they want. It will be difficult to overcome a well earned reputation.
@aaron44126 I am sick of users installing Linux just say they want to try it out only to run back to me begging to get rid of it and reinstall Windows.

What @Letophoro said, which makes your statement I quoted here a bunch of FUD.

Now if it's a matter of the original key that came with the machine (the sticker on the side or underside) not working, then that's Microsoft's fault, not the end user's fault.
  • Flagged
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@richardgarrick There is no barrier to changing OS's. You can pop your Linux DVD in the drive, boot from it, and install Linux. There is nothing about the fact that the system originally came with Windows on it that prevents you from doing that.

What do you mean by "the key to the kingdom"? If you mean the Windows product key, if the system came with Windows on it in the first place, there will be a sticker on the box somewhere that has the OEM product key on it. What's the issue?

As far as how hard it is to go back to Windows if you decide you want to, that's more up to the OEM that sold you the computer than it is to Microsoft. If you are lucky enough to have a system that came with a real Windows install CD it's not any more difficult than installing Linux in that you just boot from the CD and answer a few prompts and thats it. The difficulty arises because so many times these days the OEM doesn't give you an actual Windows CD and you had to create your own recovery media when you got the system. I suspect the people wanting expert help getting Windows back were people who 1) did not have a Windows CD, 2) Did not create or did not keep recovery media when the bought the system and 3) wiped their drive as part of the linux install.

Assuming you have a Windows CD, the main difference between a Linux install and a Windows install is that with Linux you usually get things like your office suite etc as part of the OS install where with Windows you have to do a separate install of that after the fact. There are pluses and minuses of both approaches
@adacosta38

So you are saying that people who can install Linux are not able to install windows. Well, that tells something about user friendliness of Windows.
@adacosta38
That is funny. From my experience, very few would want it uninstalled.
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It's the other way round ...
orionds Updated - 17th Jan
@adacosta38
for me when someone installs and tries Ubuntu and then tells me their Win 7 is much better but to come back several months later and then cries about how their Win 7 OS is crawling ever more slowly and producing all kinds of errors while I solve their immediate problem by performing their problem task using Ubuntu on my computer.

Then, they mumble something like "... I think I'll get an external hard disk and boot Ubuntu from it."
@adacosta38

I agree completely.

99% of users have never installed an OS. That Linux install was usually their first and often their first foray into "playing" with their PC.
Many hours later they had a working operating system but couldn't find the tools they were looking for. Their machine seemed to be fast but they hadn't yet installed the packages they needed, they'd no idea what a package was and when they found some, which version of Linux each was for.
Once running correctly they admired the OS greatly, even enjoyed it, and boy is it faster than those rubbish Win OS netbooks the kids have got ....

And yet they still end up at my desk wanting me to reinstall Windows.
Why? Because actually they miss the apps they're used too. The lamented Windows netbooks are great for the kids to create and share info easily and their partners work laptop also runs Windows so she can teach the kids how to "use a computer".
The thing is they could easily reinstall Windows themselves, they've still got the boot disks or an image partition they've never investigated. It's just that Linux install took days of 2-3hrs on a bunch of work nights to get right. As that was the only OS install they'd ever tried their false assumption is a Windows install will be the same.
It's much easier to chat to your friendly sysadmin, offer a beer or two, and spend a night at home relaxing. Next day a working, still , but familiar Windows is back.

Finally they promise themselves they'll look at Linux again, one day, not realising it's in their PVR, TV, i-devices and a whole gamut of other toys and gadgets.

Fundamentally users have finite time and choose not to use it "fixing" computers.
@adacosta38 - what - they can install Linux but need you to install Windows? Really? uhm...
@Mad Mole

I have spent entire days doing nothing but install various operating systems on virtual machines. Over and over again.

Why? Because I was BORED. I've pretty much memorized every Windows installer, and several Linux installers.

Guess which ones are the easiest and quickest? Linux. Windows is actually more difficult to install, and takes more time, than Linux.

Ubuntu in particular is great and easy. Fedora is ok, but I had troubles with real hardware (but not virtual machines). SuSE had a horrendous time on my virtual machines, but worked great on real hardware. Debian was nice if you already know what you're doing. CentOS was like Fedora (ok).

Windows? Heh. You have to answer more questions, it doesn't streamline the process, you have to do at least one reboot (at least with older versions), and overall it had to copy over more files and it took much MUCH longer.

And you know what? Maybe it's just me, but the overall number of features (Office suite, other pre-installed apps, eyecandy, etc.) and general ease of use was ALSO higher on Linux. I admit that part is entirely personal preference, but I in particular find the package management features in Debian/Ubuntu to be lightyears ahead of anything Windows has or ever will have.

However, there was one BIG exception.

It took me 2 days straight to install Gentoo. But, that's Gentoo. You can't expect anything better than that from them.

Edit: What makes Ubuntu installs really nice, is that it asks you stuff like username/password, and other trivial stuff, while it's already installing the system. So it's already going while you answer the rest of the questions.

Also, about 'ease of use' and especially 'Desktop polish': Linux is somewhat behind in this. Ease of use, debatable... It's got a lot of nice usability features going for it. But polish? Yeah. On nVidia cards, resizing windows while using Compiz is horrendously slow and buggy, unless you cheat and use those resize methods that draw a simple rectangle or something. In KDE, there are numerous and frequent little graphical glitches in the Plasma desktop system - particularly with drawing buttons, and in handling the animations in (and to/from for windows) the taskbar.

KDE 4.x basically was a rewrite of KDE, initially leaving out many features and now making it lack basic use polish - particularly graphically. Gnome 3 was a complete redesign of the desktop platform - making it absolutely horrible to learn, and very keyboard shortcut dependent. I personally like Unity, but it inherits Compiz' problems, and has a little bit of the graphical issues KDE is also having, particularly in it's "Unity Bar" on the left side - also, Unity is not yet very easily customized, but the Ubuntu developers say they are working on a customization utility. Also, the lack of hierarchal menus is a little jarring at first, but the 'filters' thing actually basically mimics this functionality well enough, and the search works nicely (though can use a little help, which they're working on).

I guess overall, I see problems and flaws in the basic way Windows works, and right now, NEEDS to work. And I see so much more potential in the Linux platform for greatness, that can go far beyond what Windows can ever achieve in it's limited way of doing things.

Yes, things may be a little rough around the edges (not in installation though - Ubuntu's perfected that, pretty much), but the potential is astounding.
@adacosta38

Well, Linux is much easier to install than Windows and takes about half the time to do it!
@aaron44126 or, a possibly better option would be the ability to add your own trusted keys to the secure boot mechanism so that Linux and other OS's could take advantage of the secure boot functionality.

From SJVN's post....

"Between these two requirements, any ARM device that ships with Windows 8 will never run another operating system unless it is signed with a preloaded key or a security exploit is found that enables users to circumvent secure boot."

Sounds like the Linux community would need to work with OEMs to provide a key.
but then they would have to admit that this is a non conspiracy.
@Badgered
If community provide key it would have to be made public... So anyone could use it.... So any malicious software could use it.... And if someone keep key for them selfs (oh like single linux distro vendor) then there are hundred of others who would not benefit.
@przemoli If community provide key it would have to be made public... So anyone could use it.... So any malicious software could use it...

This again sounds like an issue for the Linux community to figure out. The burden of fixing Linux insecurity should not rest on Microsoft's shoulders any more than fixing any Windows issue should rest on Linux shoulders.
  • Flagged
This again sounds like an issue for the Linux community to figure out. The burden of fixing Linux insecurity should not rest on Microsoft's shoulders any more than fixing any Windows issue should rest on Linux shoulders.

If they're locking out one's choice to put another OS on there, then yes it is the burden of Microsoft and we will hold them accountable.
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@ScorpioBlue If they're locking out one's choice to put another OS on there, then yes it is the burden of Microsoft and we will hold them accountable.

Why?

Take a few moments to think about this one. If a tablet came out pre-installed with some version of Linux, but for some reason the OEM decided to lock out the device so that you couldn't run Windows on it... Would you be this upset?

I'm betting the "honest" answer is No. Because after all, this is Microsoft we're talking about.
  • Flagged
Take a few moments to think about this one. If a tablet came out pre-installed with some version of Linux, but for some reason the OEM decided to lock out the device so that you couldn't run Windows on it... Would you be this upset?

Absolutely. What comes around, goes around. Which is also why we see a lot of jail-broken Android devices out there. People have long complained about having to do that.

But none of them were convicted monopolists as Microsoft is so the standards are different for them.
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@Badgered
on unrootable Android based hardware?

If Google is locking or an OEM is locking out one's choice to put another OS on there, then yes it is the burden of Google and the OEM's and we will hold them accountable.

Wow. That works just as well, and is proven to be factual.
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If Google is locking or an OEM is locking out one's choice to put another OS on there, then yes it is the burden of Google and the OEM's and we will hold them accountable.

Absolutely. I agree with that 100%

But this article is about Microsoft, the biggest most convicted monopolist out there. Isn't it.
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@Badgered "Sounds like the Linux community would need to work with OEMs to provide a key"

This is impractical. Next time you update the kernel your keys will be useless and your computer unbootable. Part of the appeal of Linux is the ability to change the operating system yourself, if you so wish. Depending on pre-loaded keys takes away that advantage.
This is impractical. Next time you update the kernel your keys will be useless and your computer unbootable. Part of the appeal of Linux is the ability to change the operating system yourself, if you so wish. Depending on pre-loaded keys takes away that advantage.

And that would go against every one of their greedy, corporate principles. FREEDOM!
@aaron44126

a possibly better option would be the ability to add your own trusted keys to the secure boot mechanism so that Linux and other OS's could take advantage of the secure boot functionality.

But then your opening up the device to malware. Which negates this whole process. There have been a few instances where malware has been digitally signed. Microsoft doesn't want to take that chance on their Windows 8 tablets.
@Cylon Centurion

Yeah, I get that... but allowing you to load your own keys is better than the option to turn off secure boot altogether, which is what I was getting at. As long as it cannot be done programatically (i.e. adding extra keys requires human interaction, and must be done in the pre-OS environment) --- I don't see this being a big threat, and it would allow people to make their own informed decisions.
Next you'll be telling me Peterborough United is a shoe in to win the next three cups.
But then your opening up the device to malware.

I don't believe it will stop it either. It might make it more difficult but that's still no excuse to lock people into one OS if they choose to change. It then winds up looking like the malware excuse for something more sinister.
  • Flagged
@Cylon Centurion How do you open your device to malware? Is the malware going to add its key into the BIOS?

I have a nice motherboard with an option to disable BIOS writes, which I do. When I want to upgrade the BIOS I disable it, flash the BIOS, then re-enable it. That keeps me secure from attempts to tamper with the BIOS but means I can still update the BIOS. That's a perfectly sensible solution that doesn't lock out updates. OEMs are still going to need to be able to flash the BIOS on these devices to deal with any potential bugs anyway. There's no need to prevent adding a key. If that was the case, they would be requiring it on PCs.
How can malware be digitally signed unless the signer had MS' private key? And what ARM BIOS malware even exists? Mr. Bott is going on and on about devices "that don't exist" (as if they're not already in development and waiting for Win8 to go gold to release them, like the convertible touch tablet Lenovo showed at the CES show Mr. Bott was at), but what about this imaginary malware that doesn't exist?
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Really?
Joe_Raby 16th Jan
@aaron44126

Since when do Linux (and by Linux, I mean Android, not actually Linux, since Android mostly isn't open-source until the current version is obsolete) tablet makers give a crap about my choice to install something else in the first place? From what I've seen, nearly, if not all current Android tablets have locked bootloaders that make it impossible to install something else anyway. Ditto for the iPad. None of the vendors offer that choice now. Demanding the same from Microsoft is just OSS idiocy at work. Go ask Google first, since they already make the biggest choice of tablets (and by "make", I mean, they make the software in close relationship to hardware vendors before the public has a chance to dissect the software in one way or another - you know, like Microsoft).
@Joe_Raby

That doesn't matter. I also think that those tablet makers shouldn't stand in the way if you want to install a different OS on there. But that's not what this article is about.

These Windows 8 tablets will be running Windows so they will be fully-functional PCs, capable of running Linux or Android or BSD or whatever. If the only thing stopping user choice is a simple software lock that can't be turned off, that's what I have a problem with. (And if the same thing is true with the iPad or whatever random Android tablet, I have the same problem with them.)
[Oops, posted twice by accident...]
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So why is it....
Joe_Raby 16th Jan
@aaron44126:

...that you are only making a stink around it being a Windows tablet? I'm honestly starting to think that Linux fans are jealous of Windows computers because Microsoft gets better OEM design wins than the FSF or Google.
@Joe_Raby
I don't want to have to jailbreak/root any device to become the administrator of the device. I want to be the administrator already. If my only option is to jailbreak/root a device, then I may end up settling for that, but it's not what I want from my hardware.

I don't care if it's a Windows 8 device that keeps me from installing Android or Linux or if it's an Android device that keeps me from installing Windows 8 or Linux. If it's trying to block my administrative privileges, I don't like it. When I buy hardware, it's my hardware, not Samsung's, not Google's, not Microsoft's, not HTC's, not Apple's, etc. It's mine, and I should be able to do what I want with it.

Incidentally, the only version of Android that wasn't open sourced from the beginning was version 3. Every other version has had the source code released at the same time it was first introduced on devices, including Ice Cream Sandwich (Android 4).
@CFWhitman: You DO have a choice:

Want to install Linux/'droid on your tablet? Buy a 'droid tablet.

Want a Windows8 tablet? Buy a Windows8 tablet.
@bitcrazed
I didn't say I wanted a choice. I said I wanted to be the administrator of my own hardware. I want to be able to use one piece of software, and then next month or next year switch to another, and maybe another after that. A one-time choice doesn't make me the administrator, and not being the administrator of my own equipment is unacceptable.
@Joe_Raby
Before you comment check on google if you are right.
There are plenty of androids mods, and tuts how to run ubuntu on iPhone.

The same will not be possible on ARM computers for Windows.

And do not call them tablets. There are already plethora of linux ARM PCs!! Do you really think that there will be non for Windows? Heck ! Already Qualcom announced ARM chips for netbooks and notebooks!

Google do not bite!
@bitcrazed
Yes you DO have choice!

If you want to have black painted room buy already painted in black room. If you want to have white painted ....

And if you will try to repaint it yourself, you will be disconnected from power grid (aka losing guarantee) AND you will not succed since old owner will physically block your attempt at bringing paint to your room (aka. Secure Boot).

People in China also have a choice of freedom. They can die, can't them ?
@CFWhitman - Then don't purchase a Windows Logo PC. Purchase a non-logo PC and do with it what you please. Same with ARM systems. These requirements are not for installing Windows 8, but rather for systems that wish to be labeled as a Windows Logo PC.
If the only thing stopping user choice is a simple software lock that can't be turned off, that's what I have a problem with. (And if the same thing is true with the iPad or whatever random Android tablet, I have the same problem with them.)

@aaron44126
The difference is Apple makes it's own hardware and sells it as one package. Microsoft uses an OEM which historically has left users with the option to install something else.

If Microsoft made their own phone or tablet with their logo stamped on it, then I would see no problem with locking it down. But they're still stuck in the PC mentality that they have to use an OEM to run their software.

With the competition already out there with phones (and soon tablets), Microsoft should be able to lock down UEFI the same way Apple does it if they brand and sell the devices themselves.
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@Joe_Raby

Because for a lot of the Linux community, it is only about the hatred for Microsoft, not any reasonable discussion of the facts etc. Scorpio Blue, Linux Geek and others are just about the Microsoft hate and trolling like their leader SJVN. They don't even have the ability to hold a rational conversation about any of this.
  • Flagged
@Joe_Raby

For the record, Google does not make even one tablet. Google does not make even one mobile phone. These boot loaders are designed and put in there by the manufacturers, not Google.

Microsoft asks vendors to make their devices locked to Windows? Big deal!
When those vendors realize, that their products are going to sit on shelves for extended periods of time and NOT SELL, some will change their mind.

The free market is great force. If say, DELL obeys Microsoft, perhaps HP will not etc.
@CFWhitman: But you ARE asking for choice: You stated that you wanted to be the administrator of your devices and that you want to have the freedom to install any and all software on your devices.

If the software in question is an entire OS, then, as I stated, you should choose to buy a device that is NOT Windows-certified and which supports unlocked bootloaders and multiple OS'.
@przemoli: Your metaphor is entirely irrelevant.

When you buy a device that is certified for Windows8, you're buying a device with a EULA that clearly states that you won't be able to install any non-Microsoft operating systems on said device.

You can choose to buy that device or choose to buy a device that supports unlocked bootloaders etc.
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It's not even the complicated
LiquidLearner 17th Jan
@Joe_Raby

Want a tablet you can load any OS on? Get an x86 tablet. Want a fixed OS tablet that will also be cheaper? Get an ARM tablet. Boom, done.
@Joe_Raby
Precisely!! And you just unmasked the strawman in this misadventure. Here is another novel idea: If the Linux want a tablet to run Linux on, why don't the make themselves one?? This would a) give them exactly what they want and 2) they will not have to complain and cry-baby about windows sub-par tablets/PCs. We could kill to Linux Birds with one Microsoft Stone!! Just my $.02.
@Joe_Raby Consider ARM-based ultrabook-style laptops. By Bott's definition, these aren't PCs. By any user's definition, they are. If you purchase a Win8 ARM laptop, it will be just as locked as your phone. Possibly more so. How is that a good thing.

I support signing. I think its use on Chromebooks is excellent. It can be disabled there if a developer wants to use the hardware for something other than Chrome OS, which a lot of devs do. I guarantee there will be people who want to try to tun Win9 on their ARM laptops. Maybe they want to test something else, or write a homemade driver. They can't do that.

See? I didn't mention Linux once.
@Joe_Raby

"HTC will allow the bootloader to be unlocked on every phone it releases going forward, and will also be working backwards to make unlocking tools for phones released prior to September 2011.

HTC previously took pains to lock down the bootloaders on its Android devices, preventing users from rooting them to install custom operating system builds. After some backlash, HTC recanted, and Peter Chou, HTC's CEO, said in May that the company would no longer be locking the bootloaders."
HTC releases tool to unlock bootloaders on its devices
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/12/htc-has-released-a-tool.ars

"Asus has announced plans to unlock the bootloader on its Eee Pad Transformer Prime and bring Android 4 to the device by January 12. After facing customer scrutiny Monday for locking and encrypting the bootloader on the device, Asus announced plans to release an unlocking tool for the tablet/PC hybrid."
Asus to unlock Transformer Prime's bootloader, issue Android 4 update http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2012/01/asus-to-unlock-transformer-primes-bootloader-update-to-android-4.ars

People on sites like this one may not be aware of the fuss, but locking users out of their own property does piss them off, and OEMs are starting to get the message.
@Joe_Raby
Because in FOSS realm hypocrisy of so called kinda-sorta-open software and/or hardware solutions is never properly criticized?

And here I have been imagining that I've actually seen google and several others rightly criticized at least as often as closed competitors for stuff such as that, but also many times for irrelevant technicalities like blaming FireFox (MPL license) for not being free enough as to create fully free variant one has to change the name and icon which resulted to Debian shipping with version that looks, walks and quacks like FF but everyone is confused about where it is and what is this IceWeasel with weird icon? For such things closed source software is rarely accused of.

So yes, some FOSS folks have more attitude than intelligence for my FOSS-assed views, and for that they can be blamed for - some of us really are way too uptight towards irrelevant details of software that is for any reasonable aspects Free and Open.
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People act as if Microsoft has reformed its operating system. Windows still holds its foundations of a single user rather than multi. The multiple users in windows is an illusion. Permissions for non privillaged users can easily be elevated. Windows usally builds new code on top of old code.

Stopping malware before it boots up is also stupid. Malware is getting smarter it can infect the kernel and it is undetectable.

Malware is now making jumps to infect video cards and bios chips. Those are areas that cannot be protect and WIndows makes them an easy target. With microsoft enabling this new technology they are painting a bull's eye on thier clients saying hit us if you can.

Those fortunate enough to use GNU/Linux, Unix, Mac should be relatively safe from infection.

If it says Microsoft an infection is guarnteed, end users should be smart enough to practice safe usage of thier systems. 95% of windows users are easily manipulated by social engineering

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