ie8 fix
madison

Microsoft's hidden diagnostic tool unlocks Vista startup secrets

By | May 4, 2007, 8:51am PDT

Summary: Are you having performance problems with Windows Vista? You don’t need a stopwatch to find the cause. Vista’s onboard monitors are constantly recording information about performance and storing it in the new, greatly expanded event logs. None of these details are documented anywhere, which is why I sat down with a group of Microsoft engineers to unravel the mystery.

In researching a three-part series on Windows Vista start-up times here last month (Part 1, Part 2, Part 3), I spent hours with a stopwatch, documenting my experience with a handful of machines running a clean install of Windows Vista.

As it turns out, I didn’t need the stopwatch, because all the data was right under my nose all the time. Vista’s onboard monitors are constantly recording information about performance and storing it in the new, greatly expanded event logs. It’s an overwhelming amount of information, in fact, and none of the details are documented anywhere.

Vista boot time detailsTo get to the bottom of the mystery, I sat down with a group of Microsoft engineers for a free-wheeling hour-long conversation about Vista boot times and performance, with a special emphasis on learning how to troubleshoot problems that you might experience. I also collected data from 104 Windows Vista startups and crunched it down to find out just how long Vista really takes to start up.

It all starts with Vista’s Event Viewer program. I’ve put together an image gallery showing how you can access the same information on your system. so you can follow along. The key information is contained in the Diagnostics-Performance log, where event IDs 100-199 capture information about Boot Performance Monitoring. (The same log contains information about shutdown times and overall system performance, but for this project I chose to zero in exclusively on boot times.)

Want to see how your computer measures up? Click here for step-by-step instructions with detailed illustrations.

Every time you start your computer, Windows logs your boot time, starting as soon as the kernel loads (obviously, Windows can’t track the time it takes for your hardware to enumerate itself and for the BIOS to hand off control to the OS loader) and ending after every background service and process has finished loading and the system has been idle for at least 10 seconds. The total boot time is divided into two parts

  • MainPathBootTime measures the time it takes for the system to load all drivers and services that are critical to user interaction and get to the Windows desktop where the user can begin doing things.
  • BootPostBootTime includes all the other drivers and processes that aren’t critical to user interaction and can be loaded with low-priority I/O that always gives preference to user-initiated actions that execute using Normal I/O priority.

If you look in Event Viewer, you’ll see a separate value called BootTime, which measures the sum of these two values. (Subtract 10 seconds from this value to account for the idle time that indicates the boot process is completely done.) In addition, the logs are filled with clues that can help you figure out what went wrong and why a specific startup (or shutdown) took longer than normal.

Because the Event Viewer logs save their data in standard XML, I was able to capture this data from 104 startup events on four separate machines and crunch it down to these bullet points:

  • 35% of all starts took 30 seconds or less to return control to the user
  • 83% of all starts took 60 seconds or less to return control to the user
  • 70% of all starts completed all boot processes, including low-priority I/O activity, in two minutes or less
  • 94% of all starts completed all boot processes within three minutes

I’ve created a scatter chart using the data from these systems that makes the point visually and used that chart to kick off the image gallery.

Vista boot times scatter chart

In conversations with engineers at Microsoft, I learned that these values are consistent with what they’ve observed over millions of installations monitored via opt-in data collection programs, on an incredibly diverse array of hardware installations.

In a follow-up, I’ll explain what I learned about why some startups take longer than others and how you can diagnose and resolve startup problems on a Vista PC.

 

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Topics

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications.

Disclosure

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is a freelance technical journalist and book author. All work that Ed does is on a contractual basis.

Since 1994, Ed has written more than 25 books about Microsoft Windows and Office. Along with various co-authors, Ed is completely responsible for the content of the books he writes. As a key part of his contractual relationship with publishers, he gives them permission to print and distribute the content he writes and to pay him a royalty based on the actual sales of those books. Ed's books written prior to fall 2011 have been distributed by Que Publishing (a division of Pearson Education) and by Microsoft Press. As of November 2011, Ed is a partner in the independent publishing company Fair Trade Digital Exchange, which exclusively publishes his books.

On occasion, Ed accepts consulting assignments. In recent years, he has worked as an expert witness in cases where his experience and knowledge of Microsoft and Microsoft Windows have been useful. In each such case, his compensation is on an hourly basis, and he is hired as a witness, not an advocate.

Ed does not own stock or have any other financial interest in Microsoft or any other software company. He owns 500 shares of stock in EMC Corporation, which was purchased before the company's acquisition of VMware. In addition, he owns 350 shares of stock in Intel Corporation, purchased more than two years ago. All stocks are held in retirement accounts for long-term growth.

Ed does not accept gifts from companies he covers. All hardware products he writes about are purchased with his own funds or are review units covered under formal loan agreements and are returned after the review is complete.

Biography

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications. He's served as editor of the U.S. edition of PC Computing and managing editor of PC World; both publications had monthly paid circulation in excess of 1 million during his tenure. He is the author of more than 25 books on Microsoft Windows and Office, including the recently released Windows 7 Inside Out.

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Good point!
jackfish2011 21st Sep
Interesting and useful. Thanks for sharing! Check out more details about custom business cards??.
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Please, follow up ASAP!
CobraA1 4th May 2007
Oh, I can learn what's taking a lot of time for my computer to load at boot time? That's pretty useful information! Please do the follow up as soon as you can - I'd love to know how to optimize my boot time happy.
Thanks and good luck! replicawatchesuk
Their warez is SOOO bad that they must use OUR time to fix their C.R.A.P.! I really think it's time that users DEMAND at least $15.00 per hour for the information 'given' to MS to help them market their warez to others!
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HUH?
Jhaks 4th May 2007
HUH? I thought this feature was a good feature... I just don't understand some people.
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No one understands nomorems
John Zern 4th May 2007
Microsoft employee stubs his toe: "What an, idiotic, stupid, moronic thing to do. How typical of an MS employee."

(Insert company here) employee stubs his toe: I don't beleive it! I'm guessing an MS employee hit him over the foot with a rock!!!"
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Huh huh?
LBean 7th May 2007
Microsoft is one of the most profitable companies on the planet. It's officers some of the best paid. With this much profit motive wouldn't one think that the products would be less prone to error, less cumbersome to trouble-shoot (or not need such attention), and perhaps even less expensive?

And you wonder why people are critical of the company?

In every other industry, when a company is doing well, it's products improve; not the opposite.

So why IS the end user expected to patch weekly and debug someone else's code?

If this were a car or truck would you happily reconfigure the vehicle to get the appropriate performance? Would it be perfectly OK for you to drive a vehicle that gets crappy mileage, breaks down every other week, requires weekly visits to the shop, AND goes from zero to sixty in just under a minute?

I don't think so.
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Well, but...
Ginevra 7th May 2007
Let's be fair. There are parts of the vehicle you *do* reconfigure and perform maintenance on to suit your needs and assure good performance, either once, regularly or occasionally: optional features that must be installed specially by the manufacturer or dealer; seat, mirror, and steering column position; radio, clock, heat and AC settings; tire air pressure, balance and rotations; spark plugs, headlamp bulbs, oil changes, and so on and so forth. Most consumers would not be happy with a brand-new auto exactly as it's set up there on display at the lot, just as most of us aren't happy with a default Windows installation, and a car that doesn't get the attention it needs is just as likely to break down as an unpatched Windows installation. True, Windows may require that necessary attention more often, but then Windows is a more complex animal than an automobile and has a lot more new, unanticipated demands thrown at it; road surfaces and the formula of gasoline change much less over relatively short spans of time than technology, and even though the weather can change very quickly, you don't often see entirely new conditions the car manufacturer never imagined.

Most autos aren't expected to be plug-and-play compatible with pretty much any third-party product, other than maybe tires and fluids, whereas we expect Windows to run on any Intel machine and handle any piece of software or hardware we install on our machines; this would be like expecting that anything from a VW bug to a fire truck be designed to accept anything from a HEMI engine to tail fins to four-wheel-drive. If that were the case, we'd see a lot more problems with our vehicles than we do.

Also, unlike Windows, most cars are not expected to stand up to daily burglary, carjacking and grand theft auto attempts by ever-more-sophisticated criminals. And, sad to say, many cars (*coughSUV'scough*) purchased today DO get crappy mileage.

So I wouldn't say Windows is that different from other products, or at least not from automobiles. The more complex and versatile something is required to be to perform its function, the more things can go wrong with it and the more compromises must be made to keep things running and more or less in balance.
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Even tires are not all compatible
Cayble 7th May 2007
You are right, and that previous loony is out to lunch. I guess he figures cars come with those computer boxes for no particular reason. Those computer boxes can provide a litany of diagnostic information on your car and are accessed any time there is a need to run a check on how things are performing on your car.

And dufuss boys analogy with cars is incomplete unless he also stipulates that the only alternative to one of these cars he would hate so much is a vehicle cobbled together by designers from around the world mixed into one, and the only way to get it to do as much as the car he hates so much would involve having alot of the knowledge the designers do. If you don't have that superior knowledge you would never be able to get one of these cobbled together cars to do half of what its supposed to do.

And none of your favorite after market parts would work either, you would have to get after market parts cobbled together by the same bunch who made the cobbled together car.

Sure the cobbled together parts would work, but typically your choices would be reduced and in some cases alot of entertainment features people now install in cars would just not be available as only parts made by the cobblers work and they are real "nuts and bolts" types who are not into fun in games cobbling.

The one other option would go to the "SPECIAL" car dealer who sells mostly white cars that are a little over priced. While you wouldn't have to be as knowledgeable as if you owned one of the cobbled cars you are limited again in your choice of after market parts and the entertainment after market parts are one again few and far between.

Changing body parts and a number of engine parts would often prove to be problematic and if you are really keen on doing that kind of thing, well, the "special white" cars are not your best choice, in fact you would find that practically all the people who buy the "special white" cars usually love them just the way they are and don't usually go for changing them much, if ever. They just purchase a whole new "special white" car every few years.

So the alternatives are fine I guess if you can live with all that nonsense. Most people just want a car that works and adding new parts, of any kind, is usually always a breeze and you have alot of versatility. The cobblers and the "special white" owners will always call you a crazy person because they like what they have; they just don't get that most people don't want to settle for what they have.
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wow
Khyron 7th May 2007
For one, i don't debug because i don't have to. Just click Yes to any bug and submit it to MS for them to look at. If I wanted to take my stock car and make it a race car, yes! i would modify the computer and firmware to increase performance and add parts or features to increase performance. When you increase performance, you make the computer perform faster, but puts more stress on certain hardware so manufacturers typically setup their products in a middle-of-the-road configuration to allow tweakers to tweak and average users to enjoy their product as is.

Not every car is a Monte Carlo SS and even your stock 2007 Mustang has the ability to be fine tuned for racing after you buy it and doesn't come tuned to the hilt, stock. There is software you can buy to monitor your engine and tune it's performance. you could say why doesn't every car come with a laptop and a cdrom in the glove box so you can tune it the way you want it? The answer is a very small minority of people even bother trying to tweak an engine and the same is true for operating systems. Only the geeks tweak and play around. MS has given us some of those tweak tools for free by building them into their OS.

Just go back to waiting for your open-source community to develop a viable non-windows operating system. no telling when an update or a driver will come out from them. Windows has been out for nearly 30 years and Linux still has no mainstream foothold in the home user or business desktop market. Wonder why that is? Linux could compete with Windows, but it's own open-source community is refusing to let it become standardized and user-friendly, in favor of keeping it geeky and cryptic to use.
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22 years
Benchmarked 7th May 2007
Sorry to be a hair-splitter, but Windows will be 22 years old in November this year, not nearly 30.
  • Flagged
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Only not.
Hogleg 7th May 2007
The biggest problem with microsoft is that they're successful, and people resent that. It doesn't seem to bother the geeks who work for them, who are just as nice, competent, and profoundly human as you or I. People just like to forget how they got there; by turning technologically fussy, notoriously difficult money-sinks in to productive and utilitarian products. They forget that.

People are more critical because many more people can afford to be...the armchair keyboard cowboys who couldn't have hacked it 10-15 years ago now find themselves relatively proficient with computer usage. Don't argue that it's a Mac or Linux revolution either...put a Mac user in front of any other computer and see what happens. Linux's market share speaks for itself. I have nothing personal against either, but they didn't open up the computer market like MS did. They're a step up from elitist fringe markets in discussions like this, and you know it as well as I do.

As a direct retort to your argument, computers ARE more reliable. Products ARE cheaper. Things DO work better. When's the last time you bought hardware that was absolutely incompatible with your windows? What about 15 years ago, if you even COULD install your own hardware then? The average Joe couldn't, whatever your skills are. Don't tell me you've never seen the Radio Shack ads from 1993 for the new 386 with 4 MEGS of RAM and 2 (two!) floppy disk drives for only $7,599. How long has it been since you've seen a blue screen?

Why should you be forced to download patches? No one's forcing you. If you want to be a victim to the next group of haxors from Malta, Chechnya, Thailand, or california, more power to you. The patches are offered in hopes that people like you will be more a part of the solution than the problem, but hey, windows 98 still runs, if you'd rather not be involved in the whole security thing.

Hey, I've forced apps to quit with a terminal kill command or ctrl+open apple+command+esc, too. Everything bites it sometimes. I haven't seen a real windows bluescreen that has been anything but hardware in a long, long time, and I bet you haven't either.

The point is, people rag on MS because they're the biggest dog on the block, and no one likes the biggest dog. They got that way for a reason though, and like them or not, revising your history in your head is a poor excuse for an argument against them.

As far as your tired car analogy goes...well, that's really more applicable to macs, since with certain small exceptions, microsoft doesn't make hardware, which is what your car is. Point in fact, if you want to retune your car because you bought new exhaust, or you changed the manifold, you DO have to go to the manufacturer, or at least someone who REALLY knows what they're doing, since the software component of cars IS controlled, for much the same reason Apple chose to keep their hardware/software in a mostly proprietary closed system.
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Precisely
Sparhawk_z 7th May 2007
I couldn't have worded it better. I've dealt with MS tech support, some of their mid-size business managers and various others both in person and over the phone - I have never ever had anything near a bad experience with anyone there.

As for their software, it's always worked for me, right back from 8088 days and Dos 3.2.
When there has been a problem I've fixed it. Nothing is without flaw. Call me a fanboy but hey - Windows (NT, 2000, XP and now Vista) has always worked a treat for my clients with a broad compatibility system, ease of use and great support both from MS and from the community!
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You're losing it, d00d!
M.R. Kennedy 4th May 2007
Go chill out with Whisperycat and Ole Man. They're smoking higher grade stuff than you are.
Utterly allow among your accept conviction on weight loss pills.
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Message has been deleted.
No_Ax_to_Grind Updated - 7th May 2007
Gold release software should not be beta-class code, with real users in real environments giving the company information for no compensation. People who partake in assisting the company with development and ideas should be compensated. This isn't a communist society, you know.

This isn't open source we're dealing with, where nobody profit from the efforts of third party, unaffiliated volunteer hobbyists. (except possibly Apple, IBM, or Novell - all of which package open source software and sell it as their own for big bucks.)

It's as gaudy as a person buying a sweater with a brand name emblazoned on it in big letters. That is the polar opposite of advertising. It's unethical, immoral, and embarrassing in the extreme. Which is why you'll never see me wearing a big read shirt with the name of a company that sells carbonated sugar water that rots tooth enamel... Though if I could fit that sells carbonated sugar water that rots tooth enamel..." after the company's name, then I might just do it. But I doubt they'd like that. wink

Usually, companies that advertise pay people to advertise. Not have people pay the company to advertise the company!! I can't say it's clandestine, or perhaps people are so thick they can't fathom they're doing just that!
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Actually, in a communist...
msalzberg 5th May 2007
society, every shares in the labor and the harvest. People would get compensated.

In a theoretical communist society, not in any one that has existed, to my (limited)
knowledge.
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haha
Khyron 7th May 2007
And everyone is kept poor. Socialist and Communist societies are typically the poorest ones with the highest unemployment rates. aka France - Riots anyone? Aka Britain, aka Russia - before they changed to a capitlist platform.

When you spread the wealth to everyone, by the time that wealth gets to you it's like getting a penny - woot! you're rich now! Go Communism. lol!
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Don?t mix apples with oranges
jason.mailley 7th May 2007
Socialism is not to compare to comunism... Review your books, and start traveling... You might very well decide not to live in the US after that. I found Canada to be a 100 times better to live in then USA. There is a few thing in life that everyones have to pay anyhow : Medical treatment as an example... Why let some insurance companies benefit on the back of every citizen when it can be the very same society insuring itself for these "BASIC" needs. And with a government negociating pricing with pharmaceutics, we pay half the price that would be paid in the US. The society is changing, and even the citizens of usa have to look at themselves in the mirror and ask them what is a good society to live in, what really means freedom and so on to make sure their society follows their principles, and if they dont, try changing it as much as you can. The usa have lots of corruptions inside its government, but it can be changed... dont asume your live in the best country of the world when you rank in position 48 for life expectancy and when you have the most per capita prisoners in the world.
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When comparing Socialist and Communist systems as they differ only in a minor matter of degree. The fact is that Socialist systems the government owns or controls most of the means of production with in a society while in a Communist system the government just owns the means of production. While it's possible to have private ownership under a socialist system it's impossible to control such owned property while under a communist system there isn't any private ownership of property so there isn't any control issue. So while there is a difference it is one of degree a socialist country is one where the government has seized as much control as it's citizens will allow and in a communist country the government has seized total control.
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Contributr
Silly argument
Ed Bott 5th May 2007
"Gold release software should not be beta-class code, with real users in real environments giving the company information for no compensation. "

Real-world feedback on performance and reliability provides developers with information they can use to improve the software in terms of incremental updates and bug fixes. No testing environment can possibly simulate the diversity of hardware and softwware in production environments in the real world.

And this isn't a closed-vs-open source issue. Mozilla has a Quality Feedback Agent for Firefox and Thunderbird that works in identical fashion. Is that a bad idea too?
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People aren't charged for Firefox and Thunderbird, Mozilla is absolutely up-front about the existence of the agent, and they have a "Don't Send" button that let's users opt out--including permanently--from the agent.

My first thought on reading this article was to wonder what other information Microsoft is recording--being so so sneaky about gathering what appears to be innocuous information tends to make me suspicious...
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Contributr
You missed the "opt in" part
Ed Bott 5th May 2007
None of this is undisclosed. It's off unless you specifically approve of it.

All of this information is recorded on YOUR computer for YOU. It isn't sent to Microsoft unless you choose to send it.
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Suspicious
Khyron 7th May 2007
and Bill Gates really cares about what applications you have on your computer. He's looking real hard at every bug submission trying to rat you out and will call the PO-lice on you. lol! gimme a break.

He just cares about getting his money for his software and keeping it running and compatible with other software packages to remain one of the top operating systems providers on the market.

When searching for a reason why something has happened, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. There is no conspiracy.
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Ed,
Cardinal_Bill 6th May 2007
They, MS, are wasting MY CPU cycles. The way you described it, even if I don't "Opt in" they still collect the data.

It's underhanded, it's as bad as a virus in a way, because my computer is collecting (perhaps unused if I never "Opt in") data for them. Can you assure me that the data is never sent out? Will MS change the EULA to allow them to collect the data?
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Absurd
ShadeTree 7th May 2007
The data is being used even if you opt out. it is used to fine tune your boot up and improve your boot times.
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Contributr
ShadeTree is correct
Ed Bott 7th May 2007
The data is indeed being used by Windows to improve performance on the fly. Most of the auto-tuning mechanisms in Vista depend on information collected here. It's not just running uselessly.

And all versions of Windows in the NT family have collected information in event logs. This isn't new, just expanded and IMO greatly improved.
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OK,
Cardinal_Bill 7th May 2007
I'm a paranoid SOB. MS has been collecting data about the boot sequence and how the OS is working for the last 3 releases. NT, XP and now VISTA.

So, which version of the OS does an autotune based upon the data?
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It works and I like it...thanks to Ed I can use it better.
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That IS open source though, Ed
mdsmedia 6th May 2007
Mozilla's software is Open Source, so user feedback is helpful to the users and developers. MS's software is not Open Source, so, in terms of this argument, the feedback from users is used by MS to help them make more money.

Having said that, I don't have a problem with MS receiving that information to improve their product, and didn't you say it was "opt-in" and therefore you have a choice as to whether to participate?
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Not-for-profit = Good, For-profit = Evil?
M.R. Kennedy 7th May 2007
mdsmedia said:

"Mozilla's software is Open Source, so user feedback is helpful to the users and developers. MS's software is not Open Source, so, in terms of this argument, the feedback from users is used by MS to help them make more money."

You're making a very serious accusation here. Do you have any evidence to back up your statement?

Probably not.

And, for the record, I did *not* opt in to Microsoft's data collection program when I installed Vista on my machine. I am somewhat averse to sending out information on what I have on that machine, though lord knows that there are any number of programs that do exactly that thing *without* informing the user in advance.
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Gee...
aallord 7th May 2007
Prove MS is using data to make more money; when was the last time you purchased a MS product that wasn't associated with a price increase? Or are you saying MS is continuing to work with profits remaining flat? Not a chance they would operate on flat profits.

Opt in, gee remember Win 98; the famous question on do you want to share this information with MS; how about the lawsuit that followed which nailed MS for collecting information from users who said "NO".
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Microsoft gave the user a choice to opt out of information collection then collected the information anyway. They've been sued and lost over this issue at least once that I can remember. So it's not just paranoia that makes people suspect Microsoft of misbehaving.
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Brain dead. Completely.
Cayble 7th May 2007
I love observations like this one I'm about to quote, tell half the story and hope nobody notices;

"Mozilla's software is Open Source, so user feedback is helpful to the users and developers. MS's software is not Open Source, so, in terms of this argument, the feedback from users is used by MS to help them make more money."

Ok, so the feed back helps Microsoft make more money. And how does that happen? It happens because they use the information to improve software development therefore making a better product in the long run therefore making their products more desirable and therefore more salable therefore increasing their profits.

God forbid in a capitalist system a vendor should "trick" the public into purchasing a product because it has been improved over previous versions.

What a dim whit.
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What a dim whit
hbashman@... 7th Nov 2007
You certainly are !!
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OK, maybe I am paranoid, but is the opt-in hidden inside something else, and so you say "yes" to (maybe, for example) please download an update or game from Microsoft, and this data gets sent anyway.

I would assume also that the opt-in option is "recommended". That way the ordinary user would simply click OK.

Most ordinary users will be opt'ing-in.
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Take another point of view
rhomp2002@... 7th May 2007
If the information is available, then the tools to use the information should also be available to the user. If M$ were serious about this feature, then they would have made all the tools you spend hours talking to the M$ people about and that you are writing this article about. Why was the use of this feature not a part of the Vista rollout and who do you have to smack up side the head to get the tools to make use of it? Sounds to me like M$ screwed the pooch on this one as well. They should have released the legend that defines the various statistics so that the user can optimize the operating system. That should have been an integral part of the release. Guess M$ just decided that the clients didn't need to know about all this as they were too stupid to make use of it.
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Contributr
You don't understand
Ed Bott 7th May 2007
All these tools are available to anyone using Windows Vista. They just don't have documentation that explains the meaning of each log entry. That's what I talked to the engineers about. There will be documentation eventually, they're just not ready yet. (And that's the way it's always been with Windows; documentation for detailed stuff often lags release. it can and will be published incrementally in KB articles, in whitepapers, and on Technet.)

Anyone can follow the same steps I outlined here and use these tools.
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Nothing new there
Yamust B. Kiddingme 7th May 2007
Apple has always taken that position; users are too stupid to need to know what is happening under the covers.

I guess that is why some of us use Windez.
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Invalid argument.
Dr. John 7th May 2007
Your argument is invalid simply because the people who used this software VOLUNTEERED to provide the information. In fact, so many people were clamoring to do it in beta, they had to limit the releases.

Even on the final production product install, you're given the choice, in plain language, to participate, or not.

And, you're all wet regarding nobody profiting from sharing the info in open source.

But, since you seem to be on a tear about smart capitalism at its finest, you'll assume you're right and that'll be that.
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Nicely put....
fr0thy2. 7th May 2007
Nicely Put!
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Dr. John your so right....
fredfarkwater@... 7th May 2007
ON! Apparently, most of the younger folks here haven't ever heard of the word, LICENSE, as in license the product to others and make money doing it! If one of these people thinks that Linus is a old, poor provety stricken programmer then he/she needs to revisit what drives products on the market, MONEY! No one does it for free. Open source is a catch phase to get people to contribute for free! Even those who contrib get paid in the form of expierence for which they'll be paid later. And I don't believe M$ has ever come out and said, "were in this for the freebies"! I am not a M$ofty and think they do a lot of dirty things like squash comp and that's bad for all of us.
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There is nothing invalid about the argument as I don't see it as an argument but more of an opinion which each is entitled to without anyone else implying it's something else. But then you're right as always, no point in accepting their opinion, call it an argument and make an assumption.
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I don't get it...
msalzberg 5th May 2007
You have a problem with diagnostics included with the OS? It sounds to me like
this is a good thing.
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Here, I'll explain you
Fil0403 6th May 2007
It *IS* a good thing, but Microsoft employed it. That makes it a bad thing, you know?
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Good for who ?
intrepi@... 7th May 2007
Who do you consider it's good for ? Is there anything that MS does that would make you consider, not actually know, but consider, what they are doing may be questionable to the level of being spyware ?
It's nice to be trusting, but at some point trust does become a gray area and some are just totally naive. Just wondering where this all fits in with your personal thoughts on this.
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It's a log file, people!
Dr. John 7th May 2007
Events = Logs ... The same thing we've been using for years to track, and trace, and correct problems. And, it's finally detailed enough to be truly useful.
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Non-fan agrees
cjinsomniac@... 7th May 2007
I'm not crazy about Vista at all, in its present state... But I am glad this data is provided, and even collected, I mean, why grouse about collecting data which might improve performance, when you've already agreed to a EULA which allows MS to snoop around your system and delete files from it? At least there is a bit of good with all the bad. This way, we might get some performance enhancements along with the added bloat and surveillance in the next service pack... There's lots to dislike about Vista, the collection of boot data is more a plus than a minus in the big picture. If it bothers people so much, they should do like I do... I don't run Vista.
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Contributr
FUD
Ed Bott 7th May 2007
"when you've already agreed to a EULA which allows MS to snoop around your system and delete files from it?"

Please cite the portion of the Vista EULA that says that. (Hint: It doesn't exist.)
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Best advice I've been given - I'll do it
intrepi@... 8th May 2007
For all those that have replied, thank you, much appreciated, I will however take your advice and not run Vista as MS has the right to collect whatever it wants providing it doesn't infringe on my rights which has reached a highly questionable matter I choose not to give them the benefit of my doubt.
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Good point!
jackfish2011 21st Sep
Interesting and useful. Thanks for sharing! Check out more details about custom business cards??.

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