ie8 fix
madison

Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista

By | May 13, 2010, 1:18pm PDT

Summary: Hey Adobe: Apple and Microsoft say you have reliability and security problems with Flash Player. A whole lot of my readers say the same thing. As do I. So, uh, when do you plan to address that elephant in the room?

Here’s some advice, Adobe. The first step on the road to recovery is admitting that you have a problem.

Yes, I know you’d rather frame your fight with Apple as a high-minded crusade for freedom, but your customers think differently. When I hear fellow PC users talk about Flash these days, I hear the exact same frustration and exasperation I heard during Vista’s first year on the market. That is not the kind of word of mouth you want.

And make no mistake about it, those concerns are real. Was Steve Jobs exaggerating when he called Flash the biggest source of crashes on the Mac? Maybe a little, but I bet he has some pretty grim statistics to back that statement up. And Microsoft is reinforcing that same message, albeit more politely and with masterful understatement. Here’s what IE boss Dean Hachamovitch had to say two weeks ago:

Flash does have some issues, particularly around reliability, security, and performance. We work closely with engineers at Adobe, sharing information about the issues we know of in ongoing technical discussions.

“Some issues”? Yeah, that’s one way of putting it. My own experience fits right in. I discovered yesterday that Internet Explorer crashes on my wife’s PC once or twice a day. The Windows 7 Reliability Monitor says Adobe’s Flash Player is to blame (yes, it’s up-to-date), and it offers a step-by-step solution: Uninstall the Flash Player, reboot, and reinstall Flash. (The Microsoft prescription is, in fact, the exact same set of steps I recommended right here back in January.)

I did exactly that, and guess what? Today, at 7:42AM, another Flash crash. At the same time on the same PC, TweetDeck, an app that runs on the Adobe Air platform, had stopped responding. The crash report fingered that same Flash ActiveX control version as the cause.

Update: Via Twitter, Adobe’s John Dowdell questions my report on the TweetDeck crash. I got one small detail wrong. It was FlashUtil10e.exe, not the Active X control, Flash10e.ocx. Both versions were the same, 10.0.45.2. Here’s the crash report from Windows:

Oh, and just a little while ago the latest Adobe Reader update failed on another PC, with this not-so-helpful message: “Update failed. Cannot install this update. Please run Adobe Reader Repair. Error:1500.”

So pardon me if I feel cranky about your software right now, Adobe.

Look, Apple and Microsoft say you have reliability and security problems with Flash Player. A whole lot of my readers say the same thing. And so do I. We’re all sort of waiting for you to acknowledge that the number of times people have a negative experience with Flash is too high. Until you address that elephant in the room, no one is really interested in hearing much more about openness and freedom. (Well, except for the FTC and the DOJ, but that’s a different issue completely.)

And then there’s security. According to Microsoft’s most recent Security Intelligence Report, published earlier this week, a Flash Player exploit was the most commonly exploited browser vulnerability in the first half of last year. The list of security updates for Flash Player is depressingly long. So, how are you planning to convince us that you’ve gotten serious about security?

I talked to an Adobe spokesperson earlier this week and heard all about the big improvements coming in Flash Player 10.1. Product Manager Tom Nguyen told me, “We’re looking after the interests of our end users and customers,” and ticked off a list of improvements that are on the way: support for more mobile devices and more operating systems, better performance, improvements in power usage (and thus improved battery life), support for hardware-accelerated H.264 video. Those are all big, important features.

What I didn’t hear was a promise and a plan to deliver a more reliable, more secure product. Should we expect Flash 10.1 to crash less and be more resistant to attacks than Flash 10 or Flash 9? Why? What have you learned about how to stop customers from having a crappy experience and how are you applying those lessons? “Well,” I was told, “there’s an improved installer.”

Not the answer I was hoping for.

Microsoft responded to the mess that was Vista by bringing in a new boss, Steven Sinofsky, who changed the internal culture on the Windows team quickly and decisively. He also brought in a lot of engineering discipline and an unprecedented level of communication about the Windows 7 development process via detailed, sometimes epic posts on the E7 Blog.

Adobe has profound issues of quality and negative perception to deal with, just as Microsoft did with Vista. But in Flash they also have a product that is going to be severely challenged by HTML5 and Silverlight and probably some other products and technologies we don’t even know about right now. I’m certain Flash will still be around in five years and probably in 10 years. But it will be much less important than it is today.

The big question for Adobe is whether they can shut down the complaints about Flash by delivering a product that “just works.” Oh, and at the same time stake out a future for a Web running on HTML5. Good luck with that.

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Topics

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications.

Disclosure

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is a freelance technical journalist and book author. All work that Ed does is on a contractual basis.

Since 1994, Ed has written more than 25 books about Microsoft Windows and Office. Along with various co-authors, Ed is completely responsible for the content of the books he writes. As a key part of his contractual relationship with publishers, he gives them permission to print and distribute the content he writes and to pay him a royalty based on the actual sales of those books. Ed's books written prior to fall 2011 have been distributed by Que Publishing (a division of Pearson Education) and by Microsoft Press. As of November 2011, Ed is a partner in the independent publishing company Fair Trade Digital Exchange, which exclusively publishes his books.

On occasion, Ed accepts consulting assignments. In recent years, he has worked as an expert witness in cases where his experience and knowledge of Microsoft and Microsoft Windows have been useful. In each such case, his compensation is on an hourly basis, and he is hired as a witness, not an advocate.

Ed does not own stock or have any other financial interest in Microsoft or any other software company. He owns 500 shares of stock in EMC Corporation, which was purchased before the company's acquisition of VMware. In addition, he owns 350 shares of stock in Intel Corporation, purchased more than two years ago. All stocks are held in retirement accounts for long-term growth.

Ed does not accept gifts from companies he covers. All hardware products he writes about are purchased with his own funds or are review units covered under formal loan agreements and are returned after the review is complete.

Biography

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications. He's served as editor of the U.S. edition of PC Computing and managing editor of PC World; both publications had monthly paid circulation in excess of 1 million during his tenure. He is the author of more than 25 books on Microsoft Windows and Office, including the recently released Windows 7 Inside Out.

Related Discussions on TechRepublic

Did you know you can take part in these discussions with your ZDNet membership?
328
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
delpidelpi 19th Oct
@Pete "athynz" Athens
black friday nikon lens
black friday canon lens
black friday camcorder
camcorder black friday
canon lens black friday
Nikon D5100 Black Friday
Black Friday Nikon D7000
Black Friday Nikon D3100
0 Votes
+ -
Huh? Don't you mean the new XP?
larry@... 13th May 2010
Is it just that it has a bad reputation? That it crashes? That's it's not built securely? The description fits XP much better than Vista.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
Pete "athynz" Athens 13th May 2010
@larry@... And what world are YOU living in? Dude, Vista was a steaming pile of crap that should never have been released even as a beta version much less a finished product! It was incredibly slow, buggy as hell, and simply sucked. I bought an HP laptop with Vista preinstalled (Athlon X2 processors, 2GB ram) and it was even slower than my old Omnibook Pro running XP... When I ripped that crapware off of my laptop and installed XP my laptop flew! No crashes, no stalls, no bottlenecks, no bugs... I was able to actually do something. And I gave Vista 2 months before I did that. I even decided to reinstall it after it was supposedly fixed with a service pack - yeah, it was fixed all right... fixed to be updated with Windows 7 which BTW blows the hell out of Vista and is better IMHO than XP so this isn't me just parroting the bad reviews - I WROTE some of the bad reviews of Vista, all from my personal experience.
0 Votes
+ -
@athynz IMO Vista's issues centered largely around performance and memory footprint, not security and stability. It was a workable OS if you had the memory for it, and it was plenty more secure than XP.

. . . and it was totally necessary to have it - because Windows 7 is built on it. If it weren't for Vista, you wouldn't have Windows 7.

This is just the way software development works sometimes. Even with a large company like Microsoft, there's gonna be some lemons.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
Sorry, I don't buy it.
itpro_z 13th May 2010
@athynz

So, you bought a crappy consumer grade laptop loaded with crapware, and it was all Vista's fault that you had trouble with it. I would hazard that it was probably your only experience with Vista as well. Never mind that for the vast majority of us Vista ran exceptionally well, easily outperforming XP in every way possible, as quantified and verified by numerous independent tests on identical hardware. Never mind that Windows 7 that you so rave about is basically just Vista with a few minor UI tweaks. Never mind that there are still millions of us happily running Vista who see no compelling reason to upgrade to 7. Take it from someone who actually supports PCs and end users for a living. Vista was the best Microsoft OS since 2K, while 7 is probably the best since 95.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
happyharry_z 14th May 2010
@athynz I bought an HP tablet with vista and have had not issues at all, including both OneNote tablet work and Visual Studio development work. Maybe it's not the OS that had the issue...
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
Kiltedbear 14th May 2010
@athynz Vista was still more secure than Xp was. That's his point. CobraA1 put it succinctly.

And isn't MS calling Flash insecure a bit like the pot calling the kettle black? I'm just saying...
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
tech_walker 14th May 2010
@athynz
I never had issues with Vista, I bought in May of 2007 and it always worked fine. After SP2 I don't think Win 7 is noticeably faster although I prefer the UI.
Windows XP was a great OS (after SP2) but it tends to be pretty insecure it would seem.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
Vista - No problems
jonc2011 Updated - 14th May 2010
@athynz - sorry to hear you had problems. My experience was EXACTLY the reverse. Not a single (significant) problem. And I bought a Vista notebook (Dell) within a month or two of its release. For me 7 is only a marginal improvement!

But I do have trouble with keeping Flash up to date - it is the most frequent problem reported by Secunia. But Flash never crashes my system, fortunately.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
vista sp2
RonDsz 14th May 2010
@athynz vista sp2 was very reliable and in certain benchmark tests it has even out performed xp and windows7. xp is dead technology as is vhs player. with new technology and software the os has to exploit newer hardware and is optimized to run such platform as not the old hardware.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
jp7691@... 14th May 2010
@athynz
Everybody is complaining so much about Vista.
I don't know ...
Comparing to XP, Vista I have (Home Premium 64) WAS! less reliable.
However it was not such a horror as some described.
Death screen happened once ... after attempt to install upgrade.
There were other minor problems.
Now, after last service pack, Vista acts like a fully grown and mature OS.
It works so well, I pushed purchase of Win7 until ... sometime in the future:)

I must say, Vista requires powerful system to work on, I have it on Q4 Intel (2.3x4) with 8GB of RAM.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
Pete "athynz" Athens Updated - 14th May 2010
@itpro_z The laptop is not crappy - like I said it flew when I installed XP on it and it flies now with Windows 7... and NO hardware changes were made. And I removed all of the preloaded crapware when I first got it and booted it up, so that was not the issue either. So given the constant of the hardware, and given the issues I had with Vista on several different PCs by 3 different manufacturers - none of which I had with XP or 7 on that laptop, my daughter's laptop, and my desktop I have to conclude that Vista sucked out loud. And given that there have been many other complaints about Vista my experience is not as unique as you are trying to paint it. And you say that 7 is Vista with a few UI tweaks - sorry dude I'm NOT buying that at all. And your conclusion about my experience with Vista is wrong. I support 6 PCs at my job - in addition to my other duties - and they are running Vista and I still have the same issues with those as I did with my personal ones... but I have built the case to have those upgraded to Win 7 so there is indeed light at the end of the tunnel - and my demonstrating the ease of use and lack of issues with my personal "crappy consumer grade laptop" played a huge part in that.

Getting back on topic, yeah Flash IS the new Vista. Complete with misguided people supporting it despite it's apparent flaws.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
Re: athynz
itpro_z 14th May 2010
athynz, my own experience is very different than yours. I am a network admin supporting over 300 users on my network, with over 100 each on Vista and XP, and a smaller number on 7. My own PC at the office is running Vista Business 64, while at home I have two Vista machines, one XP and one Win7 64. I support these and other machines and users full time, and have done so for 3 decades.

I have installed XP and Vista on identical hardware. I have also wiped XP machines and installed Vista, and in every case the machine ran much better than it ever did with XP. Vista is faster, more stable, more secure, and much better at multitasking than XP. I have also wiped Vista machines and installed 7, and found a very slight improvement in performance, not the huge difference that you state.

Have I seen Vista machines that ran poorly? Of course I have! I had one of my users bring me a laptop from home that she was ready to throw away, loudly proclaiming how crappy Vista was. When I checked it out I found an Celeron processor with 512 MB RAM. XP would have sucked on that machine. I have also had Vista machines that were sluggish out of the box, but in every case I found that the issue was crapware, not enough RAM, or performance hogging software such as Norton AV, Google Desktop, or something similar. With no more than a few minutes time cleaning up the machine or at most adding RAM I could turn the slow pig into a fine performing machine.

So, you tell me. If I can cure the sluggishness of a Vista machine by removing Google Desktop or Norton Internet Security, is Vista at fault, or the software that bogged it down?
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
Re: athynz
itpro_z 14th May 2010
athynz, my own experience is very different than yours. I am a network admin supporting over 300 users on my network, with over 100 each on Vista and XP, and a smaller number on 7. My own PC at the office is running Vista Business 64, while at home I have two Vista machines, one XP and one Win7 64. I support these and other machines and users full time, and have done so for 3 decades.

I have installed XP and Vista on identical hardware. I have also wiped XP machines and installed Vista, and in every case the machine ran much better than it ever did with XP. Vista is faster, more stable, more secure, and much better at multitasking than XP. I have also wiped Vista machines and installed 7, and found a very slight improvement in performance, not the huge difference that you state.

Have I seen Vista machines that ran poorly? Of course I have! I had one of my users bring me a laptop from home that she was ready to throw away, loudly proclaiming how crappy Vista was. When I checked it out I found an Celeron processor with 512 MB RAM. XP would have sucked on that machine. I have also had Vista machines that were sluggish out of the box, but in every case I found that the issue was crapware, not enough RAM, or performance hogging software such as Norton AV, Google Desktop, or something similar. With no more than a few minutes time cleaning up the machine or at most adding RAM I could turn the slow pig into a fine performing machine.

So, athynz, you tell me. If I can cure a sluggish Vista machine by removing some other software, is Vista at fault, or companies like Google or Symantec who produce software that would slow down any computer, XP included?
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
@athynz
I agree with your post. As a 16 year technician, I've seen a lot, everyn OS including Macs.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
ItsTheBottomLine Updated - 15th May 2010
@athynz I have to disagree. our swim team bought an HP laptop with Vista Home Premium...that was 3 or 4 years ago (can't remember). It is fine, zippy, no issues at all. Hardware vendors had a lot to do with the image of Vista. I had a home built with the correct specs and never had an issue wth Vista except one. Most people had this as well...nVidia drivers. But that was it..
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
jfgeschmidtt 15th May 2010
@athynz Since this has devolvled into discussion of Vista vs XP, I have to chime in with the others, there was a lot not to like about Vista from a usability perspective, but on a decent machine it was more secure, faster and far more refined than XP. Win 7 resolves many of the usability issues and has better compatibility support for older and less sophisticated pieces of software.

In terms of Flash, I think Adobe has not put the resources into it that is required to support a web wide mission critical platform. Hopefully they will get the message and up their game. I think that Jobs has ulterior motivations in his criticism. Microsoft is has SilverLight, so its complaints are not above suspicion either.
0 Votes
+ -
@athynz I gave up on Windows when XP came out and switched to Linux, then OS X. It was Vista that got me using Windows again, on a regular basis.

Yes, it had some performance issues, before SP1, but it was still an improvement over XP.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
Pete "athynz" Athens 17th May 2010
@itpro_z I'm glad you were able to get Vista to work - but your experience does not invalidate my own nor does it invalidate the experiences of others... there were just too many complaints for my issues with Vista to be an isolated problem. But with Windows 7 on my machines at home those issues are no more. And soon they will no longer be an issue at work either.
0 Votes
+ -
@Pete "athynz" Athens
black friday nikon lens
black friday canon lens
black friday camcorder
camcorder black friday
canon lens black friday
Nikon D5100 Black Friday
Black Friday Nikon D7000
Black Friday Nikon D3100
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
kburkenheim@... 14th May 2010
@larry@... More Like ME.
It flat doesn't work reliably
0 Votes
+ -
Vista is horrible
skelden 14th May 2010
I tried it on 10 PC's in a corporate enviroment. Biggest waste of tech support time. There's a reason most corporate customers stayed with XP until 7 was released. I only wish I had followed them.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
pat.indie Updated - 14th May 2010
@larry@...
Hahaha....did you EVER use XP?
0 Votes
+ -
@larry@... I agree, XP not Vista.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
Rodo1 Updated - 14th May 2010
@larry@... You are crazy as hell! I've be running XP for ten years and had a total of about 2 bsod's. Both were probably due to a bad install or something I did. Windows 7 (and Vista) are bloated pieces of crapware!

Ubuntu here I come!
0 Votes
+ -
True
Lester Young 14th May 2010
@larry@... XP had teething problems comparable to Vista's. How soon we forget. I think XP's problems were much more forgiven because it was released into an environment of low expectations - whatever the issues, XP was an obvious improvement over its predecessors. SP2 set the bar much higher for Vista.
0 Votes
+ -
@larry@... My XP and my Vista machines are very reliable. They are less reliable when running Flash. I like what Flash can do but I've had way to many problems that end up leading directly to Flash.
0 Votes
+ -
XP? Don't be a fanboy
croberts 13th May 2010
Customer satisfaction (user satisfaction) was much higher with XP then it ever was with vista. Regardless of the technical issues (or nonissues) with Vista, it's the perception that's the issue. And that's the same problem as Flash is facing.
0 Votes
+ -
It seems more than perception with Flash
kenosha77a 13th May 2010
@croberts All my browsers have Flash content blocked until I actually wish to view some embedded Flash video. I don't need to view the Flash based adverts - much to the chagrin of the advertisers, I suspect. Perhaps the advertisers will get the message and start coding their ads in another format.
0 Votes
+ -
@kenosha7777
They already have. I am seeing non flash ads now. Time to find some new ad blockers.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
beggerking Updated - 14th May 2010
@kenosha7777 exactly. its better to be able to BLOCK something and still retain compatibility, than to have it disabled as in an ipad and showiing only blank space.

THATS THE POWER OF PLUG-IN, which isn't in the case of Vista... you can't Block/unlock Vista.

therefore, prove Ed is an idiot for trying to comparing the two.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
ubiquitous one 14th May 2010
its better to be able to BLOCK something and still retain compatibility, than to have it disabled as in an ipad and showiing only blank space.

@beggerking, no it's actually better to not have Flash at all and send a signal to Adobe that we won't put up with security riddled crap from them any more.

Using Flash blockers doesn't send much of a message to Adobe at all, since they've already sold the Flash development tool to the website builder. They already got their money and could care less.

That's not to say I won't switch to new ad blockers should HTML5 or H-264 becomes the new web standard.
0 Votes
+ -
Yeah... how about in ...
rock06r 14th May 2010
@kenosha7777 ... non-existent HTML-5? They're still working on it and there's no end in sight as to when they finally nail it down. Still too much of a moving target - even for the companies that make coding tools.
0 Votes
+ -
@kenosha7777 I block Flash as well, although I don't run ad-blockers. If an advertiser gives me a friendly advert, which doesn't involve JavaScript being run from a third-party domain (I'm looking at you doubleclick) or running Flash, then I'll look at it. If they want to slow down my machine and potentially open it up to security flaws, they can go swivel.

Sites should take that into consideration, when they take out advertising contracts. They need money to support the site, I accept that. They (and their advertisers) should accept that the adverts shouldn't make it harder to use the site.

I also tend to have dozens of tabs open at once. If they all had active Flash content, I would be deafened by a cacophony of sound and my machine would grind to a halt!

It is one of the reasons I actually like surfing on my iPhone. My Mac has ClickToFlash for Safari and FlashBlock and NoScript for Firefox, my Windows machines have FlashBlock for Firefox and Chrome and NoScript also for Firefox...
0 Votes
+ -
Remember "Xtreme Pain?"
Lester Young 14th May 2010
@croberts The satisfaction with XP wasn't always that great.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
de-void-21165590650301806002836337787023 20th May 2010
@croberts - You have a VERY short memory.

XP was absolutely lambasted when it was first released. Part of this was because users who'd been down the Win95/98/Me path suddenly found that their machines with 64MB RAM couldn't run XP until they'd upgraded to at least 256MB RAM. Many others suffered significantly worse driver availability issues than Vista EVER suffered from.

It wasn't until SP2 that XP started gaining widespread traction - particularly in businesses.

Back in 2001, however, the internet was not the soap-box for everyone with an opinion and forums like this were not as readily available, nor were they as frequently read so the echo chamber had much less of an impact on XP than it did for Vista.
0 Votes
+ -
Flash crashes
AdamzP 13th May 2010
I have zero Flash crashes in my reliability reports on Windows 7. There's a couple from InDesign and Illustrator though. Our 5 Mac OS Tiger machines never have Flash crashes either. I figured it was a Leopard issue, but now I'm surprised to hear that Flash has issues on Windows as well.
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
@AdamzP Yes, on my work PC here I have zero Flash-related crashes as well. But there's no denying those crash reports on the other PC. And I have seen enough of them to know that they are not rare.
0 Votes
+ -
@Ed Bott

I remember posts when Vista came out "Works just fine for me, no problems at all". Doesn't matter, if enough customers have a bad experience with Vista/Flash or whatever it can doom any product. This once again brings us to "end user experience", an average user is probably not able to diagnose what's causing his computer to crash, he only knows that it did crash. That puts the onus on Adobe here to not be that weak link that makes an entire product look bad.
0 Votes
+ -
I have had Flash take down my browser windows
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh 13th May 2010
@Ed Bott : even on Windows 7, with the same amount of frequency. Now whether this is due to poor coding of advertisements like the ones running on this site, or bugs in the adobe code, the fact is, I never have a browser window crash or become non-responsive with either flash disabled or blocked.
0 Votes
+ -
Flash issues...
Wolfie2K3 14th May 2010
@Ed Bott
Maybe you can detail some of the sites with problem flash that your wife visits? Like AdamzP, I have 0 Flash related issues. I do have one recurring Adobe AIR issue, though. I've been known to frequent a number of Flash sites -including this one and MSN games where some, tho not all of them are Flash based.
0 Votes
+ -
@AdamzP
On both my work and personal machines (Vista and Win7) I took a look and found the flash related crashes were all traced back to advertisments in the browser.
At work we heavily use flash to drive our employee updates online and our training environemnt is in flash.

But while I have minimal issue with flash itself, it is a bit slow.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
Loverock Davidson 13th May 2010
Flash has lots of issues, you can't say its the new Vista considering Microsoft Vista was great product at launch which added increased security and compatibility and a host of new features. Everyone who used Microsoft Vista thought it was great. The ones who bashed it never tried it as proven by the Mojave experiment. So saying flash is like Vista is just plain wrong.
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
You miss the point
Ed Bott 13th May 2010
@Loverock Davidson From the original post "When I hear fellow PC users talk about Flash these days, I hear the exact same frustration and exasperation I heard during Vista??????s first year on the market. That is not the kind of word of mouth you want."

It's about perception, which matters.
0 Votes
+ -
Most of the time you should just ignore LD
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh 13th May 2010
@Ed Bott : he suffers from a MSFT Reality Distortion Field. Fact is even to this date I have high end machines that Vista just flat out refuses to install on. Have zero issues with Win 7. Vista is really a ME repeat.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
Pete "athynz" Athens 13th May 2010
@Loverock Davidson Sorry dude but my experience with Vista differs greatly... Along with many others I have to say that Microsoft released a steaming turd with Vista. I almost - ALMOST - bit the bullet and went with Macs... They did make Windows 7 a much better system but yeah IMHO and in my experience Vista sucked out loud.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
Loverock Davidson 13th May 2010
@athynz
Please see the Mojave experiment.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
LD
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh 13th May 2010
MSFT marketing means nothing. Mojave experiment was just a sales pitch.
0 Votes
+ -
@athynz

While Vista was not perfect it continues to run fine on many computers. Initially the OS was rough out of the gate just as is with any Major OS release but overall. I find that many of the problems people blamed on Vista were not faults of the Core OS but that of the OEM/Hardware manufacturer with poor driver support and 3rd party software makers. It wasn't until SP1 that most of the issues were worked out. The trick is to understand where the issues need to have the blame pointed at. I have literally worked on hundreds of computers with Vista on them in my side jobs and EVERY one of them ran smooth after they were set up right without all the OEM crApplications installed and using updated drivers usually direct from the hardware manufacturer and not from the OEM. Many of the people I helped changed their tune about Vista and Windows once I showed them where the actual problems lied.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Sorry, Adobe: Flash is the new Vista
Pete "athynz" Athens 14th May 2010
@bobiroc I gave Vista a try, I purged my system of the OEM crapware when I first got it and I kept on hoping that it would get better. It did when I removed Vista and installed XP on my laptop. I did give Vista SP1 a try - I believed the Mojave Experiment sales pitch, so yeah Loverock I know about the Mojave Scam - and it was just as bad... again no crapware, and no hardware changes from the initial purchase... and this laptop came preinstalled with Vista Home Premium. I purchased the family pack Windows 7 and upgraded my laptop and had NONE of the issues I had with Vista, all the speed and then some that I had with XP - in short I am quite satisfied with 7, enjoyed XP, and completely disliked Vista. Any company is entitled to a screw up now and then - Microsoft had Millenium Edition and Vista... For those who love Vista, great, but IMHO Ed hit the nail right on the head with the headline.

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix
ie8 fix