Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

Apple really is becoming Microsoft...

By | August 18, 2010, 4:00am PDT

Summary: Once we got our Genius at the Apple store he ran their canned diagnostics on the phone, told her there was nothing wrong, and that the problem, if there was one, must be due to a bad application.

If you’re looking for another datacenter commentary for today, this isn’t it, because this is completely off topic. But my experience at the Apple store today just really merited some comment.

I found myself at the not-too-local Apple store this morning, taking my 19 year old daughter to get her iPhone 3GS serviced. She had been on vacation last week and her 9 month old phone suddenly decided that the battery would last for only an hour or two, at best. She called me and I told her to just make an appointment at the local Apple store (less than 20 minutes from where she was vacationing) and that they should swap her phone for a refurb again (her first phone suffered a major failure less than two weeks after she received it).

She handed her phone to the Genius at the Apple Bar and after running diagnostics, they reset the phone to factory defaults and upgraded her to the latest dot release of iOS 4 and told her the problem was solved. If it happened again, she should go to any Apple store and they would happily replace the phone. Since they had not told her they were going to reset the phone, she was fortunate that she had her notebook with her and was able to restore her applications, and most importantly, her contacts.

Unfortunately, on the 20 minute car ride back to the hotel from the Apple Store, the phone lost 15% of its indicated power, so the problem clearly wasn’t solved. This meant I had to do the Dad thing and deal with it when she got home. So off to the Apple store we went.

Once we got our Genius at the Apple store he ran their canned diagnostics on the phone, told her there was nothing wrong, and that the problem, if there was one, must be due to a bad application. She simply reintroduced it to the phone when she restored it after her last visit to an Apple store. He then proceeded to tell her that she needed to restore the phone to its factory defaults, upgrade to the latest version of iOS 4, reinstall all of the applications she had, and then re-enter all of her contact information manually, then configure any applications that required it. But that she wasn’t to restore from backup since that was the problem.

Somewhat incredulously I joking replied “it’s the old Windows repair solution; wipe the OS and reinstall everything from scratch.” In return I got a blank look and the comment “Just reset everything to the factory defaults.” Apparently the irony of the recommended solution was lost on our Genius. The fact that I had an identical problem with my iPhone that had been resolved by the phone being replaced was simply dismissed by him. He was certain that it was a corrupted application or user problem.

Now I don’t know how many of you have 19 year old daughters (or are the 19 year old daughter) but my daughter runs her life on her iPhone. She has dozens, if not hundreds, of contacts stored on her phone,so re-entering all that data would not be a trivial task, nor does she have a hard copy backup of all that contact information, so she would have had to get all the data off the phone before she could begin the recommended process to repair it. So this was looking to be a daunting task for her and she was less than amused.

Attempting to head off a daughter explosion I proposed a possible resolution to the Genius; he would restore the phone to the original configuration, update the OS, we would leave with the phone and an appointment to come back an hour after he was done doing his “fix.’ He was smug, but said that would work and he could get us back in about 2 hours later if we thought it was necessary. He would not be there, but he would put notes in the file so that whoever saw us could follow-up (we later found out he was one of the store’s trainers, and only at the Genius Bar for the first hour each day).

So off to breakfast we went. Got back to the store about 90 minutes later, as the phone, doing the arduous task of sitting in my daughters purse while we ate breakfast, had lost about 30% of the battery power it had from the point the ‘fix” was applied.

Our new Genius, heard the story, said ‘Sounds like there’s a problem, let me get you a new phone”and had us out of the store in 5 minutes. But had I not proposed my solution this would have been an ongoing problem that would have simply led to a very frustrated customer. And the irony of the proposed solution being a Windows-esque wipe and reinstall would have gone unnoticed.

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RE: Apple really is becoming Microsoft...
mikezaiss 9th Dec
I had a similar problem with my iphone 4. I am actually on my 3rd one haha Stuff happens, you can't crucify apple every time one little thing goes wrong. They are pretty good about fixing the problem.

Plumbers San Jose | San Francisco Plumber
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contacts
banned from zdnet 18th Aug 2010
no matter how often you set your iphone back to factory settings you never have to manually input your contacts. you just sync them from your computer the next time you plug your phone in.

and hey, they solved the problem, didn't they? so what is your problem? click-baiting? some phony apple outrage story all about nothin'. i really hope, it doesn't work.
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Contributr
RE: Apple really is becoming Microsoft...
David Chernicoff 18th Aug 2010
@banned from zdnet

You're missing the point; the only backup for her contacts was in the phone backup, not in an email client. Her phone is her primary device; the computer is nly used to manage music and keep the phone backed up.
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all her contacts are restored. Who's missing the point?
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HAHAHA frgough misses the obvious point!
Johnny Vegas Updated - 18th Aug 2010
just like the itards at the genius bar. frgough since you cant comprehend what happened with the contacts heres the point. The itard genius specifically told her NOT TO RESTORE THEM BY SYNC'ING. He specifically told her to MANUALLY REENTER THEM. Just fyi since you apparently have excruciatingly low reading comprehension skills I make the articles other point really obvious for you. TWO "GENIUS" itards gave her the WRONG solution. The first COMPLETELY WASTED HER TIME, causing a return trip. The second if she'd followed their advice, would have COMPLETELY WASTED A LOT MORE OF HER TIME. The one who was a "GENIUS" trainer was even super SMUG about it.

But she's a good little itard for defending the hive no matter how obvious the reality of the EPIC FAIL.
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@David Chernicoff - let's face it the title of this article is nonsense. Microsoft would first have blamed the hardware manufacturer for any OS problem and shunted you to work with them. In addition you would have been on the phone with someone from Mexico or South America not in a store face to face with a real person.

Finally you got the support you needed once you proved the problem in fact existed. Care to venture a guess at how many folks come into an Apple store with a software problem and their immediate demand is replacement of the hardware.

Based on prior articles you know considerably more about Enterprise Computing and Datacenters than about consumer electronics and Apple.
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@menk: "Microsoft would first have blamed the hardware manufacturer..."
And they would have been right. Thanks for making this point.
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frough misses the point? or is it Johnny Vegas
stuff@... Updated - 18th Aug 2010
@Johnny Vegas you seem to be stuck in Windows land. For you Manually enter your contacts means type in each one. To someone on Apple Manual means sync. Place your phone on the dock & that's it. What the Genius said was NOT TO restore. Restore brings back everything - settings, desktop, emails, email addresses and apps etc all in one hit. A sync you can choose to sync any of those.
So manual for Apple = yes, but manual in MS world - heck no!

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RE: Apple really is becoming Microsoft...
sashamart Updated - 26th Sep
@David Chernicoff Finally you got the support you needed once you proved the problem in fact existed. Care to venture a guess at how many folks come into an Apple store with a software problem and their immediate demand is replacement of the hardware. locksmith san jose | san jose plumbing
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@banned from zdnet

Yes, the problem was solved . . . the Microsoft way . . . that was the point, but I guess reading comprehension is not high on the Apple religion totem pole.
at a genius bar, speak with a product expert, and get a product replacement after three visits.

Uh-huh. Just like Microsoft.
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@tankvision
Take a dump in a box, label it 'magical', and hype it up.

Your 'genius' is as much a product expert as a monkey is a brain surgeon. Anyone can plug a device in, click a button to run a diagnostic routine, and tell the customer "tough ****".
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RE: Apple really is becoming Microsoft...
cyberslammer 18th Aug 2010
@tankvision Gee, kind of like Microsoft...release XBox 360, everyone gets red rings of death, Microsoft refuses to take blame, charges people to fix the issue, then only after months of constant repeat red rings of death they acknowledge the issue and refund everyone their money and fix the machines for free.

Sound familiar?
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RE: Apple really is becoming Microsoft...
PollyProteus 18th Aug 2010
@tankvision - Actually the problem *wasn't* solved by the recommended (multiple times) reset. It really was a battery/hardware problem fixed by a hardware swap.

Also, in Windows 7 you can run a command line app (powercfg.exe) on your notebook to determine if your battery is in need of replacement. Don't know about earlier versions of Windows or the upcoming Windows 7 Phone...
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@PollyProteus
nix_hed 18th Aug 2010
On a PowerBook/iBook/MacBook, there's two separate things to look at for your battery health - System Profiler gives you the number of charge cycles completed and the amount of power the battery can hold, while the Battery menu will give you a status message indicating if OS X "thinks" your battery is about to die in the near future. Snow Leopard is a lot more sensitive than Leopard is in this regard, but either way, Apple gives you a free battery replacement if you have less than ~300 charge cycles and your laptop is under warranty.
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@banned from zdnet
This is some sort of ironic comedy response isn't it?
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@banned from zdnet And because your such a fanboy you don't realize that the iTards are not "Geniuses" at all and just retards. And Apple is the only one with such crappy products that you have to make an appointment just to get your product serviced. Because if everyone came in at one time, the stores would be flooded with people that have problems.
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@Jimster480
Well considering wintards have to pack up their broken Dell and ship it off to a service center for 3-6 weeks and hope they get it back in one piece, I'd say the genius at Apple looks pretty good. Appointment and all.
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RE: Apple really is becoming Microsoft...
View from Here 19th Aug 2010
@ahh so
I guess the post asking if your last name really is le got it head on.

Dell... Microsoft. Dell... Microsoft. You should be a genius!
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Dell... Microsoft. Dell... Microsoft. You should be a genius

@View from Here - Why not. They pratically are one in the same anyway, except in name only.

Just ask that windoze key that's baked on to pratically every Dell keyboard ever made.
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RE: Apple really is becoming Microsoft...
View from Here 19th Aug 2010
@Jimster480

Just ask that windoze key that's baked on to pratically every Dell keyboard ever made.

The windows key that is standard on PCs? So basically all PCs are of Microsoft then?
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The windows key that is standard on PCs? So basically all PCs are of Microsoft then?

@View From Here
So why is their patented symbol on it then? Why not the Linux Penguin? Or a generic key that says "Start Menu"?

Is it because you've been used to seeing them on each and every keyboard for the last 20 years that M$ has monopolized the desktop PC market that you accept it without question?

If they were "that free" and independent, then take the symbol off.
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@Jimster480 When you say they would be flooded with people that have problems do you mean like the local Verizon store flooded with people trying to get their Android based phone fixed? No real facts to base my post on but figure that's alright because 99.9% of the hater posts (from either side) like your's are not based on facts either.

The facts are that they did correct the issue and provide her with a new phone. The contacts could have been transfered to the new phone via sync without doing a restore and if she didn't have them available to sync from then that was her mistake not Apples. They should have corrected it on the first visit but everyone should put their bias aside and realize that most service requests like this don't get resolved in the manner we would like. The fact that Apple has stores that customers can go into is a definite plus and though in 3 years of iPhone ownership I have never had to go to an Apple store I appreciate they fact it's there if I need it.
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The difference is....
condelirios 18th Aug 2010
Listen closely: MICROSOFT DOESN'T MAKE THE HARDWARE! If you are asking a software company for a solution to a hardware problem.... you will probably get an answer like... DUH.... "Re-install the software and try again"

Apple isn't anything like Microsoft on this... Microsoft would have no control over the hardware and after the first re-install would probably have told you it was a hardware problem and to contact the hardware manufacturer...

ALA... when I went through four Palm Treo 800w models... MS had nothing to do with the crappy Palm hardware. I simply kept getting replacements from Palm. Until I got sick of it... and purchased a Blackberry.

2 more replaced iPhones and you will catch up with my nightmare... then maybe you will get a Blackberry and solve the problem.
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@condelirios : Actually they make keyboards, mice, webcams, .... happy

But, the rule with Microsoft licensing is that if Windows came with the system, then the system manufacturer is suppose to solve the problem.

If you buy a copy of Windows [full or upgrade], them Microsoft is responsable - regardless of the hardware.
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@Gis Bun

"But, the rule with Microsoft licensing is that if Windows came with the system, then the system manufacturer is suppose to solve the problem."

And the rule with system manufacturers is that if Windows came with the system, then Microsoft is supposed to fix the problem.

They just pass the buck back and forth eternally. These days I just build my own machines and support them myself.
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Clearly you don't have a clue...
Peter Perry 22nd Aug 2010
@condelirios you refuse to see the irony in his situation. What they did to the phone was an oft used fix way back in the early days of modern Windows (post DOS)... I'm not saying this makes Apple Microsoft (in my opinion they're much worse) just that the situation is very similar.
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Get over it
Tommo_uk Updated - 18th Aug 2010
How many other stores even have a Genius Bar which will attempt to fix your problem on the spot and then replace your phone, rather than insisting you hand it in to them to send back to a repair centre, leaving you without a phone for a week or two?
Count yourself lucky you had an Apple Store to go into.
In addition, as a previous poster points out, you don't need to manually re-enter any data, let alone contacts, if you sync your iPhone to your PC/Mac. Sure you have to re-install the applications from scratch (but iTunes does this all for you, for all of them. You don't have to do them manually one by one) and you'll have to re-enter your preferences for them, but your contacts, calendar, notes info and suchlike are synced via iTunes with your desktop/laptop's native apps (such as Mail, iCal, Address Book on the Mac and their equivalent on a PC), so if she sync'd her iPhone to ensure her info was up to date she wouldn't have lost anything at all - even with a wipe-and-restore.
This article says more about your lack of understanding of how an iPhone works and interacts with a PC/Mac and its contact/calendar information than any shortcomings on Apple's part.
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Contributr
RE: Apple really is becoming Microsoft...
David Chernicoff 18th Aug 2010
@Tommo_uk

You csan only resync contacts if you have them stored elsewhere. You're basically saying that she needs to install a supportd email client to backup her contacts because she can't trust the iTunes backup process.

and you are clearly missing the irony that the recommended ( and incorrect) solution was one that Mac users have been joking about for Windows users for years.
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RE: Apple really is becoming Microsoft...
Pete "athynz" Athens 18th Aug 2010
@David Chernicoff maybe I did it backwards but when I first got my iPhone and synced my contacts I did it from my email client where I have ALL of my contacts backed up - and every time I get new contacts I add them to the email client... I did that ever since I got my Windows Mobile device and lost the newer contacts I had added...
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@Tommo_uk

Funny, Verizon doesn't have a "Genius Bar", but every time I have taken a phone in with some kind of problem, it has always been repaired onsite or replaced - I've never had to wait for a phone to be sent out for repair (even for a broken touchscreen). And on the topic of contacts, the Verizon employees were also able to backup and sync all of them for me on spot - the only thing I had to do was give them authorization to set up a free Verizon backup account.

With Verizon not having a Genius Bar, I guess there is one thing I miss out on - I don't get the pleasure of dealing with some smug Apple employee with a "Genius" complex.
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RE: Apple really is becoming Microsoft...
ahh so Updated - 18th Aug 2010
@NetAdmin1178
Will Verizon do that with laptops and desktops as well?

Oh that's right...they don't sell those. Maybe that tiny HP netbook with XP pwned on it and a 5GB Mobile Broadband cap for $60 bucks per month. - LOL... grin
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RE: Apple really is becoming Microsoft...
justinkearney 18th Aug 2010
It seems that reading long articles isn't something that Apple fanboys are able to do well.

"He then proceeded to tell her that she needed to restore the phone to its factory defaults, upgrade to the latest version of iOS 4, reinstall all of the applications she had, and then re-enter all of her contact information manually, then configure any applications that required it. But that she wasn?t to restore from backup since that was the problem." ~ Apple Genuis

This is why having to enter all the contacts manually came up, because the Apple tech told them it was the fix. If Apple was that great he would have just replaced the phone the first time, but it seems like the Genuis's don't listen to what the customer tells them, just like the readers here don't read the post fully. If it was a bad app then it would have been Apple's fault anyway because they are a walled garden and unless you jailbreak your phone your not allowed to install apps that aren't verified by Steve Jobs himself.
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RE: Apple really is becoming Microsoft...
cyberslammer 18th Aug 2010
@justinkearney Yes, and the Microsoft fanboy with his XBox live avatar isn't an obvious giveaway.
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@cyberslammer

I'm a Linux user and I actually agree with @justinkearney on this one.

It's not a hatred of Apple that causes the need to point out obviously bad customer service.
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@justinkearney

I think the author was paraphrasing the Apple Genuis[sic] as saying that all contacts must be re-entered manually. He most likely said that she would need to reload her apps and resync her contact info from her computer. That's how it works. Even her 3rd party apps are downloaded and stored on the computer when you sync. And no, that is not the same as the iPhone backup that also backs up all the data and app settings.

Now in this case, it's entirely possible that the girl seldom if ever, synced her phone with her computer, so she had no real backup for her contacts. Well, what can you say ...that's too bad. Next time she should sync more or get a MoblieMe account.

So I think the author has left out parts of the full conversation with the Genius. Is this comparable to a Windows wipe and reinstall? Maybe, but only marginally. Wipe and factory reset your iPhone isn't nearly as time consuming, nor painful, especially if sync your phone on a regular basis.
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You're either an exceptional apologist, idiot, or
SonofaSailor Updated - 18th Aug 2010
@jaypeg

So...you're going to tell us what really was said between the "genius" and the author? what the "genius" really meant? and the data preservation habits of the author's daughter?

WOW!!! for someone who wasn't there, didn't experience it, and doesn't know the author or his daughter...you sure are chock full of information (or chock full of something)

First, yeah, David's daughter obviously synced her phone, otherwise the author wouldn't have included this in the article: " Since they had not told her they were going to reset the phone, she was fortunate that she had her notebook with her and was able to restore her applications, and most importantly, her contacts."

Second, it's not about the time comparison of wiping and re-installing an iphone vs Windows...it's about having to do it on an iPhone in the first place...you know, that device that is "Magical" and the company's products who "just work"??? Especially after how many years of Apple idiots ridiculing the practice of "wipe and re-install"

Thirdly, your presumptions are exactly the reason why the Apple fanbase is viewed as smug, arrogant, ignorant pricks; and why the company itself is viewed that way (well, in your defense, the CEO helps in that regard)

The "Apple experience" has now come full circle: Apple does put out devices that fail, but because of their controlling and closed nature, nobody can fix them (not even their own "geniuses")...the fix is to swap the device; all the while the customer gets attitude from the company and it's representatives, and they get told it's something they did wrong.

Too bad you fanbois don't detox yourselves of the kool aid long enough to realize this. Tell me, what color is the sky in your world?
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RE: Apple really is becoming Microsoft...
jaypeg Updated - 19th Aug 2010
@SonofaSailor

Spare me your 6 pack of non-technical partisan invective. A fine display of childish ignorance most likely coming from someone who has never even used the product in question. Please spew your hatred and fud elsewhere, it's not helpful or informative here.

Neither of us has an actual transcript of the in store conversation and the author's version is just that--his version--which he's writing with a slant to support his headline. But some fairly clear assumptions can be derived from the situation if you understand the difference between a restore from an iPhone backup and a factory restore. The daughter may have had the contacts in the iPhone backup, thus was able to restore them, but that backup is a complete backup of the entire phone, it allows you to restore the phone if, say, you get a hung update. However, if your backup contains a bad app, you can't use it because, so far, there's no selective restore feature on that backup file.

So, in the paragraph you mention, the daughter restores her contacts from the backup, which unfortunately, also reinstalls the problem app (assuming there was one).

Now, if the daughter had her contacts stored in her Mac's Address Book or on the MobileMe cloud, there's just no need for her to reenter those manually and I strongly doubt that the Genius employee would have suggested it. Thankfully the iPhone/iTunes sync features give this extra level of redundancy, but you have those sync features turned on, and you have plug your phone into your computer once in a while. Many iPhone users sync their phones a little less than they should. Hopefully Apple will add wireless syncing at some point in the future.

Hopefully the author or the actual guy in the store will add to this thread and then we can know to a certainty why she had to re-enter her contacts, but until then, I'm sticking to my assumptions on this. With proper sync features enabled and regular syncing with your computer, the data and contacts on your iPhone are quite safe.
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LOL...yet again...
SonofaSailor Updated - 18th Aug 2010
@Tommo_uk

For the second time this week, we have a story about a faulty iDevice and a smug "Genius" with his head up his a$$...coupled with a bunch of Apple fanbois telling the blog author it's his fault.

You Apple idiots put religous extremists to shame.
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@SonofaSailor Like any company puts out any product that doesn't have a certain percentage of failure. Did the Apple "Genius" handle it in the best manor possible, no but I have had countless experiences trying to get warranty repairs on all kinds of other products that would have made this experience feel like heaven. The problem is your hatred (made so obvious with comments like "You Apple idiots...) precludes you from ever seeing anything but a failure on Apples part regardless of if it was there or not. The fanboys and the haters just need to realize that having such a small minded narrow view on life or a particular brand/product only shows how immature and illogical you are, not how bad/good the brand/product are.
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RE: Apple really is becoming Microsoft...
cyberslammer 18th Aug 2010
@Tommo_uk Microsoft Genius Bar...that in itself is a complete oxymoron.
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@cyberslammer

"Apple Genius" is an oxymoron as well.
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RE: Apple really is becoming Microsoft...
boomchuck1 Updated - 18th Aug 2010
@Tommo_uk

You missed the part where the genius told her to manually re-enter all her contacts. The idea was that somehow the backup was corrupted or had bad stuff so don't use it at all.

Another point, this is a 19 year old. A desktop or laptop computer is an archaic device to them. Why would they even have an email client on there to sync from when all their email is being done on the iPhone?
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@boomchuck1
Again MS users can't get past the 'manually enter' your contacts. If she synced her phone recently she could SYNC (called manual in the article) which is just the press of a button.
Very different to a RESTORE which restores everything on the phone (everything).
and VERY different from manually entering your data one by one which is how MS users interpret this. Those of us that use Apple know how easy these things are.

MS & Apple - different worlds, different language!
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RE: Apple really is becoming Microsoft...
PollyProteus 18th Aug 2010
@Tommo_uk - Your reply says more about your inability to comprehend what you were actually reading than anything else except being an Apple drone.
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Blah blah...
zkiwi 18th Aug 2010
So, you hate Apple and are happy to vent. Whoop de do.

The pathetic level of thought here that seems to think one somewhat bad experience makes every encounter with a "genius" universally bad is quite sad.

I guess the obvious implication of the title that Apple is in the writers opinion plumbing the depths of inadequate support that he associates with Microsoft pretty much escapes you.

OMG Apple sucks almost as much as Microsoft! Have fun with that.
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Blah
nix_hed 18th Aug 2010
@Tommo_uk

I don't know about the UK, but every cell phone provider here in the US has a repair or replace on the spot policy at their "service center" stores.
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@nix_hed No, most here have a leave it with us for a week or two to look at policy. That's why I'm with Orange who will courier a new phone to me the next day if my mobile develops a fault.
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RE: Apple really is becoming Microsoft...
erik.soderquist 18th Aug 2010
@Tommo_uk

i've had in store replacement of every blackberry i've ever had replaced... though they were replaced because of physical damage rather than faulty hardware...

for reference: carriers are/were Alltel and Verizon
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He clearly stated...
Steve*1* 18th Aug 2010
@Tommo_uk

"...you don't need to manually re-enter any data, let alone contacts, if you sync your iPhone...

She was told NOT to do that. Re-read the article.
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RE: Apple really is becoming Microsoft...
Jkirk3279 Updated - 18th Aug 2010
@Steve*1*

The question is how long do you want to fuss with a problem you can solve easily?

Of course, you may want to drag this out just so you can complain.
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I had a similar problem with my iphone 4. I am actually on my 3rd one haha Stuff happens, you can't crucify apple every time one little thing goes wrong. They are pretty good about fixing the problem.

Plumbers San Jose | San Francisco Plumber

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