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Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

Apple's iPad may extend company's PC profit pole position

By | March 24, 2010, 3:01am PDT

Apple only accounts for 7 percent of the PC industry’s revenue, but lands 35 percent of the sector’s profit. Why? It’s all about the software, according to Deutsche Bank.

Chris Whitmore, an analyst with Deutsche Bank, broke down the revenue and operating profit share for all the top PC vendors in a research note. For those keeping score at home, Whitmore reckons that the following graph will skew even more in Apple’s favor with the launch of the iPad.

How did Apple arrive at this lofty profit position? It controls the hardware and the software, explains Whitmore. Instead of passing the software profit margins along to Microsoft—like HP, Dell, Acer and others do—Apple keeps the spoils.

[Complete ZDNet coverage: Apple iPad]

Whitmore said in a research note:

Apple has very high value share with only 7% revenue share but ~35% profit share which we attribute to the strength of the Mac/MacBook lineup, vertical integration of hardware and software (it captures margin most PC vendors pass along to Microsoft) and its strength at the high-end of the market.

And the punch line:

With its pending release of the iPad, we expect Apple to capture even greater profit share in the PC market as it applies its software-centric model to another large sub-segment of the market.

Other odds and ends:

  • Apple, Dell and HP account for 70 percent of the PC industry’s operating profit with 40 percent revenue share.
  • Acer has 13 percent unit market share and only about 6 percent of the operating profit.
  • Apple had 3 percent of PC industry revenue in 2005 and will have 8 percent by 2011, according to Deutsche Bank estimates. Dell’s revenue share will go from 21 percent in 2005 to and estimated 14 percent in 2010.

The upshot is that some PC makers will have to make a decision about whether they want to play in the industry. Whitmore noted that Toshiba and Sony are the most likely candidates to exit the PC market.

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Topics

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic.

Disclosure

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan has nothing to disclose. He doesn’t hold investments in the technology companies he covers.

Biography

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic. He was most recently Executive Editor of News and Blogs at ZDNet. Prior to that he was executive news editor at eWeek and news editor at Baseline. He also served as the East Coast news editor and finance editor at CNET News.com. Larry has covered the technology and financial services industry since 1995, publishing articles in WallStreetWeek.com, Inter@ctive Week, The New York Times, and Financial Planning magazine. He's a graduate of the Columbia School of Journalism and the University of Delaware.

For daily updates, follow Larry on Twitter.

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The only reason they were so sweet with you...
Feldwebel Wolfenstool 11th Apr 2010
...because it's a VERY well-known pervasive defect, and if they were'nt so sweet, you'd be 180 degrees, screaming Class-Action Lawsuit instead. Apple repairs their junk. Big deal. So does everyone else. How about those new iMACS, eh? Gonna get one?
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Main competitor the cloud not M$ then?
johnfenjackson@... Updated - 24th Mar 2010
By the same reasoning as guest poster Nauges argues that M$'$ revenue streams are threatened by the cloud ...

http://blogs.zdnet.com/SAAS/?p=1014&tag=content;col1

... App?e is even more vulnerable.

Moreover one could argue that their PC exit strategy is already proceeding swimmingly - with the iPhone and the iPad: low-powered computers accessing the cloud.

Further their strategy to corner and control the content delivered from the cloud (iTunes etc) is also well advanced.
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Apple won't be threatened by the cloud
medezark@... 24th Mar 2010
If Apple sees any cloud based apps cutting into their margins, they'll just cut off access. Why do you think they forbid Flash on the Ipod/Ipad??

Of course apple's margins are higher.

With a completely closed ecosystem such as apple's, it's the customers who lose.
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MobileMe
hill60 24th Mar 2010
and a billion dollar data centre say that Apple will extend the cloud
they already have.

iTunes and the App store make money for content providers.

Which is why people flock to Apple to sell their stuff.

Flash based games are useless on a phone, how many current phones
support a game like Farmville on Facebook?

Less than a million?

I can play non-flash based games eg Mafia Wars on Facebook.

In the scale of Apple revenue streams iTunes and App store sales
make up a very small amount.
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Ignorance is bliss.
Sleeper Service 24th Mar 2010
"Flash based games are useless on a phone, how many current phones support a game like Farmville on Facebook?"

Every Nokia and WinMo smartphone and probably most of the rest.
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wrong
bannedfromzdnetagain 24th Mar 2010
there is no flash on smartphones yet. on any smartphone. period.

some support flash light. but flash light doesn't give you farmville or any
other flash based games on your phone. ignorance is bliss but
cluelessness and arrogance are idiotique.
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Except those that run SkyFire.
Sleeper Service 26th Mar 2010
Ignorance is indeed bliss is it not?
0 Votes
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Apple is working on a number of cloud based apps right now

Apple has iwork.com that will let any Mac, PC & ipad to use its cloud
based app.

If you have iWork 09 installed on your Mac, give it a try, is free (beta)

http://www.apple.com/iwork/iwork-dot-com/?cid=APP-NAUS-IWORK-
090702-00003&cp=APP-IWORK-00003&sr=IWORK.COM
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A few questions...
Sleeper Service 24th Mar 2010
1) Does that operating profit only refer to PCs?
2) If so what the hell has the iPad got to do with anything?
3) If you're an Apple stockholder you should be over the moon. If you're an Apple customer don't you feel just a little bit used?

Fire away!
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"If you're an Apple customer don't you feel just a little bit used?"

If Apple satisfies our needs, why should we begrudge Apple's profits?
Profits are the way that customers rewards a company.

But, that is only true in Capitalism; the Soviet Union could never produce
an Apple computer. The Class Struggle never produces stylish products.
Class envy is more apt to produce violence, than competition.
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...
Badgered 24th Mar 2010
If Apple satisfies our needs, why should we begrudge Apple's profits? Profits are the way that customers rewards a company.

So if Apple suddenly decided to charge 10k for an iMac, but it suits your needs that would be okay? I mean hey, who are you to begrudge them their profits....

I would assume there would be a limit to your generosity. Apple does do a great job of finding the limit.
0 Votes
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Neither is Dell, nor HP. If you are a size queen, HP and Dell win. If you
are building a sustainable business with a highly loyal customer base that
believes the profit margins are invested into more life-improving
technology (that would describe me), then you don't mind.

BTW, join the wagon and make some money doing nothing. Buy AAPL
now because $435 per share is less than 2 years away. That's almost
double your money.

Who else is offering that kind of return in tech? Class? Class? Anyone?
Ferris?
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Who else
tikigawd 24th Mar 2010
Who else is offering that kind of return in tech? Class? Class? Anyone?

BIDU
GOOG
NFLX

They've worked well for me.
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Odd then that the...
zkiwi 24th Mar 2010
Class struggle managed to defeat Nazi Germany, take over all of eastern Europe and on the way produce the amazing Movie/Opera Alexander Nevsky, and huge amounts of scary good weapons as well as athletes.

I guess it helps that the people running it were for the most part evil SOB's but the USSR was capable of an awful lot of great stuff.

Personally, I think they could well have produced an Apple computer (independently) if they thought it was a good way to put one over on the "west."
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Soviets
Jkirk3279 27th Mar 2010
During the Apollo-Soyuze joint mission, one of the
Apollo Astronauts discovered that the Russian
spacecraft was controlled, not by a computer, but by a
large spring-driven brass drum, (a la?music box),
covered with pegs.

As the drum rotated, various reed switches were
turned on by contacting those pegs, controlling the
firing of the thrusters at predetermined times.

This, despite the fact they probably could have pirated
Western style integrated circuits or at least used
transistors for the same task.

Would you like to reconsider your statement in light of
this information?

happy
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Not really...
zkiwi 28th Mar 2010
As the Soyuz thing worked. Apparently Soviet spacecraft crash far less than American spacecraft if the shuttle program is anything to go by.

Besides, the only reason the USA even cared about space is that Russia got there first.
0 Votes
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Here here.
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh 24th Mar 2010
She could use and abuse me any day wink
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Well I just got my MacBook Pro back from Apple.
The Danger is Microsoft Updated - 24th Mar 2010
I went to an Apple store Saturday because there was a vertical line on my display that would not go away. Because I got Apple care it was fixed for free (new LCD panel installed) and I got it back from Apple in only two working days (it's a 2.75 year old laptop).

It's that's being used then please, Apple, USE ME!
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....
Badgered 24th Mar 2010
Because I got Apple care it was fixed for free (new LCD panel installed) and I got it back from Apple in only two working days.

It's that's being used then please, Apple, USE ME!


This is different than any other warranty/extended warranty how?
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How many cover the LCD display on the laptop? (NT)
The Danger is Microsoft 24th Mar 2010
NT
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Apple did it without question. Hence why I like Apple. They support their customers. Others (like Dell) make you jump hoops.
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Not my experience
John Zern 24th Mar 2010
They've had the part, and the unit repaired in within 24 hours, in most cases.
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Dell provides a damage protection plan....
Lester Young 24th Mar 2010
...for about the same cost as AppleCare. People have been denied coverage under AppleCare because of light damage unrelated to the failure. Your coverage is far better with Dell's cost-equivalent plan.
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@ Lester Young - read the fine print
aj.redmond@... 24th Mar 2010
A damage protection plan is going to be loaded with a lot of fine print. This is whether the plan is from Dell or HP. If you say the wrong thing about how the damage occurred or if you have damaged the part a second time, you will probably be denied coverage. Support for these programs are totally at the judgement of the person you are trying to get coverage from. I know because I have worked for one of the companies mentioned.

Apple may not have damage protection programs but I don't think they want the negative customer support publicity that these "packs" carry. Instead Apple concentrates on providing A1 service on the AppleCare program and their customer support scores show it.
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@aj: Hogwash!
Lester Young 24th Mar 2010
First, you're speculating about how Dell, HP, etc., approach damage protection programs. Extended warranties without damage protection leave you at the mercy of the provider, since wear and tear or incidental, unrelated damage have been used as reasons not to honor them. Apple is as guilty as anyone else of using that dodge.

Did you know that if Apple replaces a defective part under warranty there is essentially NO protection against defects in the replacement part? I've seen that first hand.
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Everyone. That's what you're paying for.
John Zern Updated - 24th Mar 2010
Though I've never had a Dell laptop go bad on me, beyond the screen and a keyboard.

They've been there in within 24 hours for most all other issues.
0 Votes
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It's in country
Ken_z 28th Mar 2010
You call support at Apple and you get an Apple employe who is not
overseas, but in country. And charged with making you happy so you will
buy more Apple products.

That's the difference.
0 Votes
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The only reason they were so sweet with you...
Feldwebel Wolfenstool 11th Apr 2010
...because it's a VERY well-known pervasive defect, and if they were'nt so sweet, you'd be 180 degrees, screaming Class-Action Lawsuit instead. Apple repairs their junk. Big deal. So does everyone else. How about those new iMACS, eh? Gonna get one?
0 Votes
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An answer to your question
David Turner 24th Mar 2010
3.)If you're an Apple customer don't you feel
just a little bit used?

No because as the report stated HP, Dell etc
hand over a lot of their profit to MS so you
are not comparing like for like.

Apple's figure includes its profit for hardware
and software. HP, Dell etc make no profit on
the software but do pay MS money to have
windows on their computers thus reducing their
profit.
0 Votes
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7% revenue?
bannedfromzdnetagain 24th Mar 2010
it's about time that someone shows us that racing to the
bottom with razor thin or negative margin netbooks is not a
sustainable business model. vertical integrated companies
(hardware, software and services from one company) like
apple are.

one question though: i assume these numbers are worldwide
numbers. and apple has a unit market share of roughly 4%
worldwide. their average selling price must be around $1350
if i recall it correctly. pc asp is now around $600. with an asp
than is more than double that of the industry shouldn't
apple's revenue share be around 9-10%? what's wrong with
my maths?
0 Votes
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It's what you get when you pursue the cheapest possible price, rather
than excellence. The customers rebel at taking the "any old crap" that
you throw at them.

Businesses stayed with Windows XP because Microsoft had run out of
good reasons for them to buy. Speed was no incentive because Vista
was slower than XP. Vista gave no advantages which businesses
wanted; the cheapest computer is the one you don't buy.

Windows 7 gives no incentive for XP users to upgrade and they are
60% of the world's computer user base. The computer market is
stagnant, except for Apple. It is lethargic for only 2% of the Windows
user base to upgrade to Win7 per month. It's twice as fast as Vista's
adoption was, but Vista was a dog. Apple's upgrade cycle to Snow
Leopard is over twice as fast as Win7's.

"their average selling price must be around $1350
if i recall it correctly. pc asp is now around $600. with an asp
than is more than double that of the industry shouldn't
apple's revenue share be around 9-10%? what's wrong with
my maths?"


Nothing is wrong with your math. Apple just doesn't sell loss leaders
which make them no profit. This is what depresses the profit per
computer of Dell and HP.

Market share is illusionary, so long as you have enough customers to
provide a base. And that base is actively being churned.

The Windows XP user base is mostly inactive; the business who run
their XP computers occasionally see no reason to upgrade or buy a
new computer. Perhaps, if the economy improves, businesses will
start upgrading their hardware. But, they won't be replaced with
NetBooks, because their life expectancy is too short.

It is unclear what they will replace XP computers with. Microsoft is
attempting to force them to upgrade, but that might not work.

The Chrome OS will be released later this year and it will be much
more secure than Windows -- no virus'. Google's cloud based apps
are unlikely to temp the XP user, but WINE may. A combination of the
Chrome OS and WINE would allow businesses to run their old XP
software without the dangers of running Windows on the Internet.

But, its too soon to say yet. The XP users aren't going anywhere.
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I disagree. Microsoft's business model
John Zern 24th Mar 2010
is still on course. Chrome will be not be an issue.

The computer market is stagnent, except for Apple.

Windows 7 has sold more in 5 months, then all copies of OS X combined, from the day it was released.

I'm sure a lot of companies wished their sales where "that stagnent". wink
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microsoft wins, the pc box assemblers lose
bannedfromzdnetagain 24th Mar 2010
it is not about microsoft vs. apple here. microsoft sells software, apple
sells hardware. they are not even in the same business. and surely don't
see each other as competitors. this is a misconception of tech blogs.

but that's exactly the problem of the hardware industry. microsoft makes
huge profits while the pc box assemblers hardly make any money
anymore in their commoditized industry that races to the bottom.

apple is the only hardware computer company that has a sustainable
business model, the others are just means for microsoft to make money.
i pity the hp, dell and acers of the world.
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Not if the OS boosts hardware sales.
Lester Young 24th Mar 2010
Desktop hardware is the least profitable aspect of Apple's business, BTW.
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how do you know?
bannedfromzdnetagain 26th Mar 2010
there are no numbers on apple's profit margin for desktops. how do you
know? any sources?
0 Votes
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It's been discussed in these forums.
Lester Young 27th Mar 2010
iPhones, iPods, and iTunes are driving the bus.
0 Votes
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Windows 7
Jkirk3279 24th Mar 2010
Actually, the graph that shows Windows 7 adoption ALSO
shows XP and Vista combined dropping at the same rate.

So it's not that Windows 7 is growing the Windows
marketshare, just that it's replacing existing Windows
licenses.
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Oh, really?
Lester Young 24th Mar 2010
http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-weekly-200942-201011

When was the last time any OS captured market share at the rate that Win7 is? The more dynamic markets are showing a rather dramatic decline in XP use, and they sure aren't going to OSX or Linux/Wine.
0 Votes
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Really
still not nice 24th Mar 2010
When you're a monopoly that has a history of engaging in anti-competitive behavior, that market is already captured for you.

http://opentech7.blogspot.com/2009/03/critism-of-microsoft.html

"This is due to Microsoft's technique of keeping the market needing its products even if they are not the best, mainly by explicit and implicit agreements with computer manufacturers, who announce Microsoft's software being more compatible with their products. For instance, main computers manufacturers sell their computers with pre-installed version of Windows Vista."

"Microsoft's policy known as "embrace, extend and extinguish" starts with embracing new technology and extending it as much as it can mostly by the agreements with both users and other technology companies. Then Microsoft ensures on making its products the standard one and extinguishing any competition through media channels"
0 Votes
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Excuses, excuses.
Lester Young 24th Mar 2010
Fact is, Linux netbooks were often exchanged for Windows netbooks and not the other way around. When given a choice, most users choose Windows. Even a lot of Mac users choose Windows. The ability to run Windows is a major reason Mac sales got a boost in the Intel era. The Linux community needs to stop sniveling about Microsoft and figure out what they need to do to get their desktop up to snuff so it's a product that can compete with Windows. It's put up or shut up time.
  • Flagged
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Their record speaks for itself
still not nice 25th Mar 2010
I don't have to make up anything. M$ has been caught breaking the law and all they had to do is put up a PR job to let the public believe that it changed. But it really hasn't. The Bush Administration turned a blind eye when it came to their campaign financial donors up in Redmond.

I have a Windoze machine at home and even I have to use it for some of my work, so try not to equate that with 'love' or 'reverence' like you seem to be in the habit of doing.

And nope, I'm not gonna shut up. And I seriously doubt others (who agree with me) will, either.
  • Flagged
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It won't do you any good.....
Lester Young 27th Mar 2010
...to keep on sniveling. Nobody likes snivelers. It won't convince anybody.
.. infact Dell installs OEM version and for each installation cost is passed on the customers without effecting Dells margin of profit.

So others in the industry have lesser profit margin because they pass the benefit to consumers and also because there is competition in PC market that is more cut-throat than Mac OS business (there's only one vendor). Apple has chosen to price its products higher and create a perception of quality. Not to mention, Dell, HP and others still deliver quality and deliver more bang for our bucks.
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The PC market is more cut throat...
UrbanBard 24th Mar 2010
The PC market is more cut throat, because they have less to offer than
Apple. Apple customers are not looking for the cheapest price; they
have other criteria which they demand. We tend to keep our Mac's
twice as long as PC's, so we get a lower Total Cost of Ownership. Over
a four year period of computer use, PC owners pay more.

Dell and HP sell computers which make them almost no profit; Apple
does not.

Dell and HP sell computers in Apple's quality range, but they often
cost more than Apple's products. It is an illusion that PC owners pay
less.

The user experience of Apple products is much higher. That is why
Apple has the highest customer satisfaction ratings in the computer
industry.
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dunno
pwn0tr0n 24th Mar 2010
I think you are right for pre-built computers. If you match a dell with an apple, feature by feature and on performance, both laptops and desktops come close in price.

However, I build my own. I can build a PC for around $1200 with the same feature set as a $2800 mac and I'll have better case ventilation, a better power supply, better video card and processor.

Best of all I can swap hardware out without voiding my warranty.

I like macs, don't get me wrong, but I build my own and don't buy macs for the same reason I won't buy a Dell or HP.

If I were to buy a prebuilt desktop or laptop it'd be a mac. My next desktop will be built with intel hardware so I can make it a hackintosh and run OSX on it.
Shhh don't tell Steve Jobs =D
  • Flagged
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I see you have no ethics. Have fun with that. (NT)
The Danger is Microsoft 24th Mar 2010
NT
  • Flagged
0 Votes
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PC purchasers do not obsessively configure a PC to match a Mac feature-for-feature. Custom-configured hardware always costs more than off-the-shelf hardware. Purchasers generally look for the best deal in a price range meeting their requirements. That is seldom a Mac.
0 Votes
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As Apple operates as some kind of sect, user
reports are not based on user experience, but on
cult enlightemnt. But still it is a kind of
happiness. Any method is good for that:).
  • Flagged
0 Votes
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NT

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