Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

Apple's malware challenge: Usability as its security world changes

By | May 26, 2011, 3:00am PDT

Summary: Apple’s security reality is changing right before our eyes and the company’s response will be telling. The toughest challenge will be shutting down hackers while keeping its trademark usability in tact.

Apple’s security reality is changing right before our eyes and the company’s response will be telling. The toughest challenge will be shutting down hackers while keeping its trademark usability in tact.

Steve Jobs & Co. is known for creating devices that can spur gadget lust with just a mere rumor. Apple customers for years have taken the view—inspired by the company’s commercials—that its software is safer. If you have a Mac there’s no need for anti-virus software. You’re secure.

The reality is Apple enjoyed security by obscurity. Its market share wasn’t worth the attention from hackers. Now Apple is worth the attention. Where’s the glory in taking out a smaller computing player when you can take out the big dog—Microsoft?

As a result of Apple’s lack of hacker interest, the company could talk about being more secure even as it tended to rewrite QuickTime and plug security holes every time it launched a new product or generated buzz. While you were playing with your latest greatest Apple software release the company would patch vulnerabilities.

Here’s Apple’s chain of events over the last month:

  • Mac Defender malware attacks Apple users.
  • Apple remains mostly silent and tries to thread the customer service needle.
  • Apple then announces a fix and that a future update will put Mac Defender to bed with an update.
  • Evil doers launch a new renamed version just a few hours later. The new malware is renamed (predictable) and split into two parts, a downloader that delivers a payload similar to Mac Defender (not so predictable).

Does any of this sound familiar? It should. Microsoft went through this same learning process with its security procedures. Microsoft had to button down its security operations and today is able to fend off a lot of attacks.

Ed Bott nailed the importance of these malware attacks against Apple when he said:

Apple appears to be treating this outbreak as if it were a single incident that won’t be repeated. They seriously underestimate the bad guys, who are not idiots. Peter James, an Intego spokeperson, told me his company’s analysts were “impressed by the quality of the original version.” The quick response to Apple’s move suggests they are capable of churning out new releases at Internet speeds, adapting their software and their tactics as their target—Apple—tries to put up new roadblocks.

If Apple plans to play Whack-a-Mole with these guys, they’re in for months of misery. Just ask any Windows security expert who was around in 2003 and 2004 when Microsoft was learning a similar painful lesson. If each reaction from Apple takes two or three weeks, the bad guys will make a small fortune and Mac users can count on significant pain and anguish.

Microsoft eventually got security religion, but there was a cost—usability. Vista’s most hated feature was UAC (user account control). Bott later noted that UAC was enough to drive any level-headed person to PC rage.

In a nutshell, Microsoft added a key security feature—and drove its users nuts. Apple naturally capitalized on Microsoft’s UAC flub.

This usability vs. security line is one Microsoft has been walking for years. If you use all three of the top Web browsers regularly—IE 9, Google Chrome and Mozilla’s Firefox—you notice pretty quickly that IE 9 has more prompts and security features that can be annoying. I don’t doubt that IE 9 is the most secure browser around, but there are times I feel like I’m taking medicine that has a nasty taste to it.

It’s not like Apple hasn’t paid any attention to security. The biggest issue is that Apple seems to be underestimating what it is up against. Apple is just supposed to work. Security sometimes requires some inconvenience to users. If you build security in from the ground up, usability can suffer.

Apple’s trade-off will between security and UI will be its biggest challenge in the years ahead. If I were to guess, Apple’s Mac malware issues are just the warm-up act for bigger things.

  • Why not target Apple’s iOS, which is a dominant mobile OS?
  • Why not target iTunes and all of those credit card accounts on file?
  • Why not go for the glory of bringing Apple down?

In other words, Apple may have to spend some time talking security frameworks. That’s quite a sea change. If Apple can integrate hardware, software and more security into a package where the consumer doesn’t notice then it will have pulled off a great feat.

Final thought: One natural reaction to talking Apple security is to bring up Google’s Android. Android will be just as big of a hacker target and Google will have to respond to the same challenges as Apple. Ironically, Microsoft’s Windows Phone 7 will have a free pass for a while. Why? Security by obscurity. Microsoft in mobile just isn’t big enough to matter.

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Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic.

Disclosure

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan has nothing to disclose. He doesn’t hold investments in the technology companies he covers.

Biography

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic. He was most recently Executive Editor of News and Blogs at ZDNet. Prior to that he was executive news editor at eWeek and news editor at Baseline. He also served as the East Coast news editor and finance editor at CNET News.com. Larry has covered the technology and financial services industry since 1995, publishing articles in WallStreetWeek.com, Inter@ctive Week, The New York Times, and Financial Planning magazine. He's a graduate of the Columbia School of Journalism and the University of Delaware.

For daily updates, follow Larry on Twitter.

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RE: Apple's malware challenge: Usability as its security world changes
sdc100 1st Jun
@Harvey Lubin Oh god, here we go again: Trying to start a Mac-vs-Windows war when there was none. It's truly amazing how some Mac fanboys get all defensive when problems are pointed out. This is true of some Windows folks too, but it's certainly more fervent in the Mac world (I do support for both OSs an a major medical school).

That said, you're missing the point. As proof of your defensiveness, you pointed [at least] twice that Apple owes users nothing for user stupidity. No one, included the article's author, ever said that Apple owed us anything. No more than Microsoft owes its users for installing illegal/pirated or questionable software, or visiting Piratebay. You're making an issue out of something that no one ever claimed.

The real point here is that Mac users are being targeted, and whether Apple was even partially culpable is irrelevant. The fact is that it scares less sophisticated users, and that hurts Apple's bottom line and reputation. So it IS an Apple problem, not just a user problem. Keep in mind that Mac users are almost ALWAYS paying more for hardware, if only because there is less competition in the Mac world (trust me, as a corporate buyer, I know this to be true). Here's a simple example. If my only needs are email, websurfing and some occasional word processing (aka a typical causal user), can I accomplish that more cheaply in the Windows world (where brand new dual core laptops are $299-$399) or the Mac world? Given the huge price difference, do you think an unsophisticated Mac user would tolerate knowing that their world is less safe -- regardless of whose fault it is? I know that my casual clients won't, since security and stability are the only real reasons they choose Mac.

In summary: No one ever claimed that Apple owed anyone anything for this malware. But it is an Apple problem, regardless of how it originated. To dismiss it as just a user issue, as you did, is just stupid.
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Dietrich T. Schmitz, -*- Your Linux Advocate Updated - 26th May
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DeRSSS Updated - 26th May
So, I guess the malware on Apple computers are the most usable and easy to ... get (and use?) .
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I have posted repeatedly that the real target is not a few Mac users stupid enough to grant permission to malware for it to install. This happens all to frequently with Windows too. Also, Mac OS X has a UAC like feature. The MacDefender could not install without getting an admin password, just like Windows. Further, the "security through obscurity" theme is not only trite but incorrect. This exploit takes no advantage of the obscurity of OS X to attack its vulnerabilities. It uses the same method used by Windows exploits in the wild now: social engineering.

But you did point out what I have been saying for over two weeks. All of the smart phone and tablet platforms are the real gold mine for hackers. Android may top this list, but RIM and iOS may not be far behind. There are a lot more people using these than OS X and these folks are a lot more naive and susceptible to social engineering exploits (read here kids, teens and adolescents).

As an example, think of all the "smart" people that have rooted their smart phone. The entire internet appliance market is up for grabs by these thieves. It's time to educate everyone about the real dangers that exist for EVERY platform.
@jacarter3: This exploit takes no advantage of the obscurity of OS X to attack its vulnerabilities. It uses the same method used by Windows exploits in the wild now: social engineering.

...exploiting vulnerabilities. What it is related to is whether a particular platforms market share is sufficient to warrant the attention of malware authors.
@jacarter3 RIM is about as secure as is practical. It is the only smartphone OS that has emphasized security form it first concept.
@jacarter3
in reference to this. It uses the same method used by Windows exploits in the wild now: social engineering

Agreed, but the "obscurity" is in reference to those writing the malware - They can't see the OS X machines for all the Windows machines in the forest in terms of ROI.

Yes they could have just as easily snagged an OS X user as easily as a Windows user (Mac Defender proved this) but that would require the writers of this to constantly work on 2 versions of their malware, 1 for Windows, 1 for OSX.

It's the same reason why many software companies don't write versions of their software for Macs - Is it really worth the time, effort, and cost when just the Windows versions targets 90% of the market? OS X is just as "obscured" to them as it is to a malware writer.
@jacarter3
Mac Defender has already been updated to install without prompting for the admin password, by installing to the applications folder.
@jacarter3

I think you have trouble reading. He noted in the article both the historic and continued vulnerability of Windows and OTHER OSes as well. Additionally, I'm not convinced that it was all obscurity that protected Apple, but your logic is intrinsically flawed. That a common social engineering attack required merely a graphical layout change to look like a Mac interface SUPPORTS the argument that the only thing protecting Apple was obscurity.
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@ jacarter3

On Windows, IE9's SmartScreen would have effectively stopped malware like Mac Defender, which uses a very basic social engineering tactic. Apple have got a lot of catching up to do to close the security gap with Windows/IE.
@jacarter3 Actually, those poisoned images that launch the attack exploit libjpeg. Which is a part of OSX. Sorry, but you're wrong.
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Exploiting vulnerabilities
vulpine@... 26th May
@jacarter3:
Question: which OS X vulnerability is this so-called virus exploiting.
Answer: None. This is not an OS exploit but rather a much simpler and much more effective social one. The trojan is nothing more than a cheap, easy to create app that one way or another convinces the user to install it at which point is specifically asks the user to give it their credit card number. At worst it could steal enough data from that one document to clean out somebody's available credit, at best, a smart user would generate a one-time-use-only card number that would steal only the original 'requested' amount and no more (at least one bank currently offers this capability.)

The point is that this is not a virus by any definition and is only barely a trojan in that it uses one app to download another one which, for now, does nothing more than make an annoyance of itself for those who are aware of its purpose. The only vulnerability here is the user.
@ jacarter3

Another point is that UAC is far more than just a password prompt. It shows who digitally signed the software trying to run with elevated privileges and runs on a separate desktop -- the latter of which a fake prompt from a browser can't do. In order to fake a UAC prompt on a separate desktop, the malware would already have to be installed/running locally -- i.e. the machine would already have to be infected.

UAC can be made even stronger by enabling the setting to require the SAS (Secure Attention Sequence), Ctrl+Alt+Delete. In order to fake a UAC prompt with the SAS, the malware would have to have already installed a kernel-mode device driver (which requires running local code with admin privileges), which would mean the machine was already fully compromised, so there would be no need to fake a prompt anyway.

Granted some naive users will still respond to fake prompts (and respond to emails asking for their passwords, etc.), but Windows makes it very difficult for malware authors to trick experienced users.
@jacarter3 Thank you... although, I do believe that OSx has less instanced of malware because it is a less desirable target to malware developers. Just my opinion, but either way I agree that an OS is software... will always have users as the weakest link!!!
@Larry Dignan



Mac Defender is a ?scareware? scam. If a user receives an email from a stranger telling them to download and install an unknown application from an unknown source, they only have themselves to blame if they go ahead an download and install that bad application.

What if that same user fell for another scam? What if they received an email from a ?Nigerian prince? asking to send them money? Is Apple also responsible to reimburse that user for lost money , simply because the request came to them in an email on their Mac computer?

There is now a version that doesn?t require a password to install, but this doesn?t really change things. There is still no excuse for a user to purposely install and run it on their own computer.

Since the default setting in Safari is to NOT open downloaded files automatically, it still would not install or run without the user?s determined involvement.

Not only THAT, but if a user did change the default settings to allow downloaded files to open automatically, it is limited to only ?safe? files (videos, pictures, PDF, text, and archives). But downloaded applications and installers WON?T run automatically.

A user still needs to purposely run any downloaded application themselves.

If a user does make the mistake of downloading and installing one of these scareware application, it?s just as easy to uninstall it by dragging the application to the trash and deleting it.

Mac Defender is a scam (NOT a virus), and there is no ?protection? for a user?s stupidity? and Apple is certainly NOT responsible for a user?s ignorance.

Larry, you as a Windows user might think that the "sky is falling" for Mac users, but nothing is further from the truth. Mac OS X has ALWAYS been free of viruses... as opposed to Windows which has hundreds of thousands of viruses and new ones coming each day.

It's quite obvious that articles written by Windows users about Mac Defender are not aimed at Mac users (who already know that the sky is NOT falling) but is instead aimed at your Windows-using readers.

By trying to paint Macs as being in the same virus-prone league as Windows PCs, it seems your goal is to placate Windows users (and yourself) by distracting them from the real, unjustifiable problems caused by Windows' terrible security.

Like a magician, you get your Windows user audience to look at this diversion (trying to make them believe that Mac OS X is just as bad as Windows) so that they don't focus on how totally inadequate Windows security is.
@Harvey Lubin ... talking about... MS Windows has some of the highest security measure for an OS. As usual, the user overrides them to install, run, or whatever with his or her system. OS X has the very same problem, user override execution. NO OS can protect the user from this (unless the user does not have admin rights at all, which our system do at the university does). Here at the university, our open area computers available to the public, never get malware, viruses, trojans or the like. WHY? They cannot override the security of execution/install software prohibited.

The comments you make almost look like a rabbid, disturbed Mac supporter. Or, maybe so?
@Harvey Lubin

"Like a magician, you get your Windows user audience to look at this diversion (trying to make them believe that Mac OS X is just as bad as Windows) so that they don't focus on how totally inadequate Windows security is."


You may have been able to make this claim in 2005, but not 2011. Most security professionals seem to believe that Windows 7 is more secure than OS X. Everyone knows that XP had horrible security but to bash Windows security in general in 2011 is incorrect. Come back to the present.

BBeck
@Harvey Lubin - delusional viewpoints like this are the cause of the problem in the first place. You cannot completely guard against users being socially engineered into installing malware (unless you have a locked down environment that doesn't allow installing software full stop), so you need realtime antivirus tools to spot suspicious behaviour and known malware before it executes.

Windows users by and large ensure they have this, often via free, unintrusive third party software like Windows Defender, Avast or AVG. Mac users by and large do not. It's a situation that obviously leaves Mac users wide open to this sort of malware, and it's only going to increase in popularity in tandem with that of the Mac platform.

But feel free to keep your head in the sand over there in HappyMacLand.
@Harvey Lubin

please run for President!
Finally we are seeing some attacks or attention given by hackers to the MAC system! Android also? I'm happy Microsoft has lost pretty much market share so hackers can go and bother also MAC users. They were always proud and showing off that they wouldn't get any antivirus since it was ridiculous to have one on the MAC systems.
I'm happy to see that finally Hackers are attacking MAC and ANDROID or other OS. So they can give some very little rest to Microsoft that has been attacked for many many years. Everyone should get his turn. Other OSes get ready to protect yourself. LoL
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Talk about spin!!
richdave 29th May
@Harvey Lubin

Let's see if I have this tight. Macs are secure and virus/malware/trojan free. And if a Mac machine is successfully attacked by a virus/trojan/malware it is the Mac users fault, because that machine itself is so secure that it cannot be penetrated without user intervention. This is basically what you Apple fanatics are saying, right?
@Harvey Lubin

I think, Mr Lubin, that you are attributing too much to this blog. Agreed, Mac Defender is a piece of malware, acting through a social strategy, rather than a classic virus. It does require the assistance of the user, but the fact that Apple products nowadays are being purchased by those who do not care what is "under the bonnet" but only want something that works straoght out of the box makes social engineering attacks more likely to suceed. It is a compliment to Apple that this is the case. It is a further compliment to Apple that serious malware producers now feel it is financially viable to go after Apple users.

Windows 7 is a very secure OS. Not completely, but then no OS is. It is a vast improvement over previous versions, and has a native AV checker and firewall. Therefore Windows security is no longer terrible.

Mac Defender clearly does not mean the sky is falling in on Apple, but it does mean that security is now becoming an issue. Not, at this stage a very serious one, but none the less, an issue.

To point this out is not shilling for Redmond, it is merely pointing out that Apple products are no longer invulnerable.

As I have run ClamAV on my wifes Macbook since she first obtained it, and would like an AV app for my iPad, I consider AV protection on ANY OS to be a primary requirement.

Therefore, I do not consider that pointing out that Apple products now have malware "in the wild" is either an attemt to shift the focus from Windows problems, nor, as others have said, an attempt to get people to shift back to Windows. To claim it is so, is simply a gross exaggeration.

The one thing I will accept, is that due to Apple fanatics claiming the absolute invulnerability of Apple products from attack, there is almost certainly an element of schadenfreude in these blogs. Who can blame them.
@Harvey Lubin Oh god, here we go again: Trying to start a Mac-vs-Windows war when there was none. It's truly amazing how some Mac fanboys get all defensive when problems are pointed out. This is true of some Windows folks too, but it's certainly more fervent in the Mac world (I do support for both OSs an a major medical school).

That said, you're missing the point. As proof of your defensiveness, you pointed [at least] twice that Apple owes users nothing for user stupidity. No one, included the article's author, ever said that Apple owed us anything. No more than Microsoft owes its users for installing illegal/pirated or questionable software, or visiting Piratebay. You're making an issue out of something that no one ever claimed.

The real point here is that Mac users are being targeted, and whether Apple was even partially culpable is irrelevant. The fact is that it scares less sophisticated users, and that hurts Apple's bottom line and reputation. So it IS an Apple problem, not just a user problem. Keep in mind that Mac users are almost ALWAYS paying more for hardware, if only because there is less competition in the Mac world (trust me, as a corporate buyer, I know this to be true). Here's a simple example. If my only needs are email, websurfing and some occasional word processing (aka a typical causal user), can I accomplish that more cheaply in the Windows world (where brand new dual core laptops are $299-$399) or the Mac world? Given the huge price difference, do you think an unsophisticated Mac user would tolerate knowing that their world is less safe -- regardless of whose fault it is? I know that my casual clients won't, since security and stability are the only real reasons they choose Mac.

In summary: No one ever claimed that Apple owed anyone anything for this malware. But it is an Apple problem, regardless of how it originated. To dismiss it as just a user issue, as you did, is just stupid.
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@Dietrich T. Schmitz,

Thank you ZDnet
No, Windows uses "security through obscurity".

Windows is closed source, it's inner working is "obscured". The idea is if you don't know how the mechanisms work then you will be unable to subvert them. This is "security by obscurity".

Mac OS X is based on open source foundations. As such it uses peer review. The idea being that if anyone can look at the mechanism then problems will be discovered and fixed and hence a more secure system achieved.

So you're 100% wrong when you suggest Mac OS X has "security by obscurity".

The thing is this isn't actually much of an attack. The path to infection is pretty convoluted. Mac OS X isn't what's been compromised here - it is actually Google's image search that's been spoofed. What happens on the Mac is the software has to get the user (by social engineering) to push buttons to get onto the system. Even the new version needs the users to push the buttons! This is SO very different to the bad old days of exploits with Windows XP. Thus far we've seen nothing that suggests such problems.

Now that's not to say there aren't things Apple can do. Removing executable files and DMGs from the list of "safe" files would make sense (and actually we've seen problems with this setting before). Perhaps making the "Applications" folder read-only for "Admin" users would make sense.

But in general terms, Mac OS X's security is much like that of Unix (and hence Linux) and in FAR better shape than XP's was.

UAC always looks like a copy of Mac OS X normal practice.
@jeremychappell not really the obscurity Mr Dignan was referring to, but I presume you knew that!
@RonanSail Well I wanted to think it wasn't just a biased barb - benefit of the doubt and all that.
@jeremychappell

No, you're wrong. Mac still uses security BY obscurity. The obscurity here is that Mac wasn't popular so poeople didn't bother. And yes, we all know Windows can get viruses and malware but what we are seeing for mac is only malware. The fact remains it is still malicious code that needs to be found and removed, and Apple's public image WAS that AV software wasn't necessary, even though it is necessary to block and or remove malware. Don't try and sugar cote the problem and don't blame it on ignorant users. Most people are going to freak if they see a popup that tells them they have a virus, unless they are seasoned computer people, and by seasoned I mean used computers extensively, not casually.
that tells them they have a virus"

Unless they are a Mac user who believes that their platform is immune to viruses. So, oddly enough, the very thing the blog author and others on this ZDNet witch hunt are railing against is the very thing that would protect a Mac user from this phishing attack.
@KBot Seen this twice now - neither user installed it. One did what I'd do - restarted Safari, and deleted the install file. The other took the system off the network and isolated it (yeah).

Neither came close to being infected.

"Security by obscurity" is a well established idea - and this isn't it.
@fr_gough: In reading you response it looks like you're saying that people are better served by believing OSX is immune because this malware spreads by scaring people.... That is a very backasswards argument.
@KBot

And just how many MAC users are "seasoned computer people"? I would imagine those who are running power mac's for their business as seasoned, but surely the overwhelming majority are entry level people who like the MAC's because they heard they are simple.
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Macs are vulnerable to viruses
WilErz Updated - 26th May
@ KBot

Apple's attempt to distinguish viruses from other malware is misleading at best. Macs are clearly vulnerable to viruses (look at Charlie Miller's ability to regularly exploit fully patched OS-X/Safari installs in seconds), but benefit from obscurity.

The similar drivel about 'Unix security' from Apple and Linux apologists is belied by the proliferation of worms attacking Linux web servers. Linux desktops benefit from obscurity, but Linux web servers don't. That's why malware targeting Linux tends to attack the Lamp stack, as opposed to, for example, Gnome or KDE.
@jeremychappell
"Seen this twice now - neither user installed it. One did what I'd do - restarted Safari, and deleted the install file. The other took the system off the network and isolated it"

That's what people with experience with malware would do, but for casual users, this isn't the case. And I still don't agree with you when it comes to the definition of security by obscurity. The word obscure can be loosely translated to not common. Using this as a guideline, security by obscurity would mean that it is considered secure because it is not common and hackers don't bother. This explains the idea of a mac to a T.

@MindWarpMedia "And just how many MAC users are "seasoned computer people"? I would imagine those who are running power mac's for their business as seasoned, but surely the overwhelming majority are entry level people who like the MAC's because they heard they are simple" This is exactly what I'm talking about. Computer people, people who keep up with tech news, etc will obviously peotect their machines like they should, but people who don't know better won't because they didn't know they needed to.I'm constantly worried about my friends and family not paying attention and accidentally downloading a virus or malware, hell it even heppens to the best of us. Regardless what OS, it's the manufacturer's responsibility to design it, or patch it with security in mind. And it is also their responsibility to at least actively inform their userbase of AV software.
@KBot Obscure doesn't mean that at all:

obscure
adjective
not discovered or known about; uncertain : his origins and parentage are obscure.
* not clearly expressed or easily understood : obscure references to Proust.
* not important or well known : an obscure religious sect.
* hard to make out or define; vague : figurative I feel an obscure resentment.
* (of a color) not sharply defined; dim or dingy.
verb
keep from being seen; conceal : gray clouds obscure the sun.
* make unclear and difficult to understand : the debate has become obscured by conflicting ideological perspectives.
* overshadow : none of this should obscure the skill, experience, and perseverance of the workers.

It doesn't mean "not common".

Well these users were in a primary school (what Americans call "elementary school" I believe. So seasoned IT professionals, they were not.

Update: Look "security by obscurity" is all about keeping implementation details secret - that is what it means. And "not well known" is not at all like "not common" - at one time DNA was "not well known" but it was still inside every living thing.

AntiVirus software's effectiveness is grossly overstated. It is only as good as the signatures, and quite frankly they wouldn't have helped with this. The AntiVirus industry talk up malware, and overstate the effectiveness of their products.

Windows security didn't significantly improve until Vista and Windows 7 - no amount of AntiVirus software worked.

Also significant is that Microsoft's own "Security Essentials" is probably the best offering in the AntiVirus industry, again pretty damning when you think how much experience the AntiVirus companies have had.

Over reliance on AntiVirus software is a fundamental mistake.
jeremychappell

Not sure if you realize this but "not well known" is similar to not common, which is one definition of obscure that you listed, so nice try, but fail. Secondly, I didn't say seasoned IT professional, look at the end of the first post, "used computers extensively" meaning tinkering around with them, keeping up with the tech. I'm not a seasoned IT professional by the definition you used but i know enough to protect my machines with AV software and not to trust vague "virus" notifications. Casual users don't. I'm not saying Apple is horrible, I'm just trying to get you to stop trying to sugarcoat the fact that they overlooked this.
@jeremychappell

OS X's market share has up until recently been completely obscured, or overshadowed by Widows.
@jeremychappell,

"Mac OS X is based on open source foundations. As such it uses peer review. The idea being that if anyone can look at the mechanism then problems will be discovered and fixed and hence a more secure system achieved."

Sure if they document their API's and if OSX was really open source. Darwin (the BSD based underlying operating system) is open source, the GUI that sits on top of the operating system is not. OSX/Safari was the first to go down in pwn2own this year, and the reason cited was lack of documentation.

"UAC always looks like a copy of Mac OS X normal practice."

Demanding admin access for certain functions is a generally accepted paradigm that has been around for decades. OS X copied it, Windows Vista/7 copied. We're in technology...people copy from each other.
@bmonsterman WebKit is open source... They DO document their APIs...

I never said Mac's security practice as unique - just what Windows 7 reminded me of.
@jeremychappell,

WebKit is open source. Cool. Most of what was developed by Apple in OSX ( not the BSD backend ) is not. I'm not certainly not bashing Apple for this, I believe that people and institutions have right to keep their intellectual property private. However to claim that MS has security by obscurity and claim that Apple is all open and all that is a stretch.

I think the reason you see alot of OS X bashing here is that Apple fans have a kind of "Jesus OS" perception of OS X, which Apple (to their credit) continues to nurture. Here are some of the weird claims:

1. OS X is impervious to malicious attack, and such no antivirus software, or even good sense is required to operate a machine running OS X.
2. OS X is the most efficient OS in the galaxy. A computer running OS X can run on a circa 2001 computer and still run rings around the newest alternative.
3. OS X is so user friendly...it's so much better than any competitors UI, although I can't really tell you why.
@bmonsterman Safari was the first to go in Pwn2Own because it was the first system on the block, not the first one to fall in a simultaneous challenge. That little fact gets ignored. Pwn2Own is not run simultaneously as to give participants the ability to compete on numerous platforms.
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OS X is NOT Open Source
monteith 26th May
@jeremychappell OS X, Safari, iTunes, iPhoto, GarageBand, iOS, QuickTime -- none of it is open source. Apple took open source code and changed it to their liking and added what they wanted on top and caused some gripes in the open source community because they would not share their own code back. (Linux distribution changed their regulations partially as a response to what Apple was doing with BSD.)

The fact is that Apple had a huge programming task ahead of them and Copland was not going to do the trick so they purchased NeXTSTEP, adopted the BSP framework, switched to Intel microprocessors and have ended up with a machine that is the NeXTAGAIN operating system, completely incompatible with anything prior to OS X & Intel. There are no OS X distributions from anyone else because Apple's code is not freely available.

Apple was not targeted because the bad guys were not using Macs - the market was not big enough. Now they are and the cracks are showing.

I am not an Apple hater - my main home machine is a MacBook Air, but I am happy to admit that Apple is playing from behind in the security arena. Perhaps the elves in Cupertino can come up with a new approach to security that no one ever thought of before. I hope so or OS X is in for the same battle Windows had.
@ bmonsterman

I'd like to add to your point by noting that peer review is a very specific academic process. The 'many eyes' conjecture of open source advocates doesn't even come close to real peer review. Indeed, if commercial software houses have security experts vetting their code, with the ability to reject insecure code, that's probably closer to real peer review than the 'many eyes' conjecture.

The 'many eyes' conjecture of the open source advocates is closer to the idea that 'a million monkeys with a million typewriters will eventually produce the works of Shakespeare'. If the expected time period involved exceeds the lifespan of the universe, then even if it's technically true, it isn't meaningful.
@bmonsterman Err - what?!

OK I'm going to help you with your own argument a little here. WebKit is a fork of KHTML, Apple didn't just dream it out of thin air.

Much of the technology in Mac OS X was created by NeXT, and later a joint partnership with Sun Microsystems. Again Apple didn't dream this from thin air.

Third "security by obscurity" isn't an insult - it is a strategy. You don't reveal how the mechanism works. This argument is as old as lock making. Microsoft believe in the "hidden mechanism".

The closed source parts of Mac OS X have very limited attack profiles - deliberately so. This is part of the reason WebKit is open source.

Your views on what Apple say and what Mac users believe are your problem. I don't think they say that, and I don't believe that.

Point 1: I don't accept Mac users believe this. Also in this case it isn't Mac OS X that's being hacked - it's the user's brain.

Point 2: I'm sure there are Mac users that do think this. However I'm not one of them. There is a reason the iPad doesn't run the whole "OS X" stack, and speed is part of it.

Point 3: OK, I've been using Mac OS X since it was called NeXTSTEP {wink} so I might be a bit biased - but what's got a nicer UI?
@monteith FreeBSD isn't a Framework. The problems of Copland were rather worse than "a huge programming task". There are versions of Mac OS X that run on PowerPC (although the current version doesn't). The transition was rather more phased than you suggest.

WebKit (the core of Safari) is open source.

Apple do push their changes back up to projects they use (it would be pretty foolish not to - this is in their self interest).

Mac OS X lags Windows 7 security in few ways (the ASLR is not as comprehensive as Windows 7 for example). But I think you overstate the case rather.

Interestingly NeXTSTEP originally ran on POWER as well as 68K, it was later ported to SPARC, HP/PA, and i386. It also seems clear that Apple most likely have it running on other processors too, probably ARM, deep in their labs.
@jeremychappell
Point 1: I don't accept Mac users believe this. Also in this case it isn't Mac OS X that's being hacked - it's the user's brain. - chuckle
When you look to hack a system, you look at all three avanues of entry:
-hardware
-software
-social

Social is just another avenue of access.
grin
jeremychappell,

"OK I'm going to help you with your own argument a little here. WebKit is a fork of KHTML, Apple didn't just dream it out of thin air.

Much of the technology in Mac OS X was created by NeXT, and later a joint partnership with Sun Microsystems. Again Apple didn't dream this from thin air.

Third "security by obscurity" isn't an insult - it is a strategy. You don't reveal how the mechanism works. This argument is as old as lock making. Microsoft believe in the "hidden mechanism".

The closed source parts of Mac OS X have very limited attack profiles - deliberately so. This is part of the reason WebKit is open source."

Frankly, I'm not going to argue with you on this. I simply don't know that much about OSX and you have me at a disadvantage.

"Your views on what Apple say and what Mac users believe are your problem. I don't think they say that, and I don't believe that."

Well...the "I'm a PC ads" definitely suggested it, but that's just marketing. Maybe it is my problem. If it is it's not a big one, because I really don't care that much. I'm not a troll or a fanboi...so I'll just let it go.
@jeremychappell OSX is open source? Mind showing me a link to the source so I can build it myself?
@vel0city Did he say it was open source? Must have missed that. But here's the link you wanted. http://www.opensource.apple.com/
@jeremychappell Open source foundations does not equate to being open source. Apple is no longer pushing back patches to the darwin project on a regular basis... Having used a 1990s version of FreeBSD to begin the NeXT project does not make it:
1. The same source as the modern free BSD, in the 13 or so years since NeXT was started FreeBSD has undergone many major versions and a few architecture changes. If you go and look at the modern FreeBSD chances are it will have little in common with OSX anymore. The branch happened over 10 years ago, with 10 years of active development two divergent code branches will be signficantly different.
2. Maintained by the FreeBSD community.

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