Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

Banning electronics: Can't coffee shop owners find a better way to keep tables free?

By | August 3, 2010, 4:00am PDT

Summary: Coffee shops and other businesses are battling a a long-time problem of people hogging a table all day for the cost of a $2 cup of coffee by banning electronics. Doesn’t that seem backward? Sounds like those restaurants need time limits

I know technology has this way of taking over our lives, of captivating our attention to such an extent that we can’t even enjoy a cup of coffee, crack open a good book or just soak up some summer sun without firing up a laptop or fiddling with a mobile phone.

Nick Bilton’s tale in the New York Times’ Bits blog shows how some business owners may be taking the pursuit of an unplugged world a bit too far by forcing a no-tech policy on to their customers, banning the use of computers or other electronics during certain hours or in certain areas.

The story isn’t new. Some news outlets were reporting it last summer. But as the weather warms and more people look for an escape of the dreary office setting, the stories of “no-tech-here” encounters are popping back up, as well

Clearly, a business owner can impose any rules he’d like on his place of business and those who don’t like it can find someplace else to buy a cup of coffee or a sandwich. But, in an age where technology moves quick but the economy recovers slow, it’s hard to imagine that business owners would do anything to discourage customers from coming in and spending money.

With that said, I can see restaurants and coffee shops wanting to keep tables clear during busy hours, not occupied for eight hours by some iPad-carrying geek who will nurse a $2 cup of coffee - and tie up a table in the process.

Still, Bilton was told flat-out that his Kindle - technically an e-reader and not a computer - was not allowed in the coffee shop. Period. It was the same story when he pulled out an iPad at a Brooklyn sandwich shop. If it has a battery and a screen, it’s not allowed.

From there, Bilton’s post went into this rant about e-books and pixels vs. paper and the outselling of digital goods over traditional ones. That was all interesting stuff - but I’m still blown away by this trend of banning electronics, as opposed to setting time limits for a table or requiring a purchase for a seat.

Anyone who’s ever strolled through a Barnes and Noble knows that there are plenty of people who find a book in the store and then curl up on one of those comfy chairs, occupying it for hours (and then not buying the book.) What about if you wanted to sit and turn the first few pages of a book before deciding whether or not to buy it - but there were no open chairs.

You get where I’m going with this, right? Why ban the electronics? Why not just find a way to ban the inconsiderate behavior?

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Sam has been a technology and business blogger for more than 18 years.

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Sam Diaz

Sam has been a technology and business blogger, reporter and editor at ZDNet, the Washington Post, San Jose Mercury News and Fresno Bee for more than 18 years. He's a member of the National Association of Hispanic Journalists and a graduate of California State University, Fresno.

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RE: Banning electronics: Can't coffee shop owners find a better way to keep tables free?
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But, if they put up a minimum, per hour, of spending to take a table you'd whine about that too.
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a low minimum
Spats30 3rd Aug 2010
Something like "A minimum $2/hour purchase required per table." sounds very reasonable to me.
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Thoughts
Economister 3rd Aug 2010
@Spats30

1. The owner can of course do whatever he wants

2. Free Wi-Fi attracts business

3. Owner cannot afford to have a table occupied for hours over a cup of coffee.

Given the above, I would think that a MAC address based management of connections, say half hour or 1 hour automatically free, depending on time of day (how busy). After the system cuts you off, you cannot reconnect with the same MAC address (device) for say 3 or 4 hours. No human intervention required. The customer goes there for a quick meal or cup of coffee with free Wi-Fi and the owner gets rid of the freeloaders.

I am not a programmer nor network specialist, but is seems to me that the solutions to this problem are rather trivial.
@Spats30

Hey why not. Other businesses do this type of thing. Most if not all strip clubs require you to have a drink in front of you @ all times if you set next to the stage. And no you cannot milk a $6 jack and coke for 4 hours the bouncers pay attention. So i say get you big bouncers @ barnes and noble and starbucks then your problem goes away.
If I lived in an area that had this problem, I would go to the small Bus owners and suggest setting up network with passwords that expire after a certain amount of time. (Start a side business for myself)The other day my wife and I drove an hour to a bigger town so her and her friend could go shopping. I went to a chain restaurant that has free wifi. Sat there for three hours with my net book, only spent $12, but I did leave the waitress $8 tip for "taking up space". I also watched the room and as long as 5 tables were free I stayed. If they would have gotten busy or anything I would have either left or went and sat at the bar.
@jcm996 I think you are considerate .
Buy your damn coffee and get the hell out. No problem. Don't like it? Buy from some where else. Don't see a problem with it myself.
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go to the library
smartin007 3rd Aug 2010
The Panera I go to always has most of the tables taken over by people with laptops, either doing homework or business work. There is always some jakcasz sitting in a booth with his laptop and all his work spread out, while a party of four has to fight to squeeze in a small table for two. . Its a restaurant, not a library. Just because you buy something doesn't give you the right to camp out and treat the place like your own personal office.
@smartin007
I've seen this as well. I usually get my food to go because the Panera around here is always packed so I bring it back to the office but there are a dozen or so people with laptops and papers spread out. The funniest thing is the one guy trying to find a seat near the power outlet.
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Student would come in and stay all day hogging up a certain section of the restaurant (Panera Bread). Then they began limiting your online session to one hour. Personally I don't mind, one hour is perfectly suitable for me to come in, grab some coffee and breakfast and read the days news on my iPod Touch (soon to be an iPad).
I will have to agree with the shop owners here. They are trying to make money in their small business. Barnes & Noble is a national chain with a lot of income. The coffee shops are small business, every person that is just sitting at a table taking up space is one less seat for another customer and one less sale. Why turn 5 tables an hour when you can turn 20 tables an hour?
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same ol'
sportmac 3rd Aug 2010
this is just an extension of how rude people have become. they talk and text while driving (risking all kinds of mayhem), they'll talk on their phones or on a bus or in a subway as though you're really really interested in their conversation.
they'll be out with friends and take calls or browse the web, pretty much telling their friends where they stand (hey, you guys are fun and all but, right now, i prefer my friends on facebook).
and they'll sit all day in a coffee shop after spending $2 like it's their right.
@sportmac: they'll talk on their phones or on a bus or in a subway as though you're really really interested in their conversation

...I care if you're interested in my conversation. I'm doing so because I want to talk to the person on the other end of the phone. And I don't see why people think doing this is rude.
@ye It is rude. Very rude. The problem is, because of the way the brain works, its very difficult to "tune out" half a conversation, even if you don't care what's being said. Paradoxically, its easier to tune out a full conversation -you simply don't notice anymore. But half a conversation is annoying all the way through, it prevents others from reading, or concentrating on anything. Have you noticed how people complain about others talking over the phone but not about two other persons having a conversation? Now you know why.
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@ImaGremlin: The problem is, because of the way the brain works, its very difficult to "tune out" half a conversation, even if you don't care what's being said.

I have no problem tuning people out.

Have you noticed how people complain about others talking over the phone but not about two other persons having a conversation?

Yes, I have. And I can't think of any other reason other than they don't like it. People just complaining because they can. That's it.
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@ImaGremlin
oncall 3rd Aug 2010
I agree it's rude. I also find a lot of cell phone talkers don't modulate their voices properly. They are speaking loud and clear to compensate for the phone performance and not the ambient noise level as two people talking face to face would. I have noticed the behavior substantially decline in my area the past few years as, I suspect, people are finding text messaging a more manageable communication method while on-the-go.

As for Ye, I am glad you find that you can tune out distractions easily, you are probably aware that skill is not applied evenly in all individuals.
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That's not my problem.
ye 3rd Aug 2010
@oncall: As for Ye, I am glad you find that you can tune out distractions easily, you are probably aware that skill is not applied evenly in all individuals.

You're just another one of those complainers. You don't like something so therefore it's rude. There's nothing rude about it.
@ye

But just for fun, I usually record people like yourself and then play it back at maximum volume while watching the video once the conversation ends.

It's truly amazing how many people take exception to hearing themselves babble on when they're trying to have a few quiet moments of reading their newspaper, or eating at a restaurant, or actually talking to someone else that's physically present.
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Yeah
oncall 3rd Aug 2010
@ye
"You're just another one of those complainers. "

I think we all got that you feel your behavior should not be of concern or a distraction to anyone else no matter how annoying. A blissful lack of awareness and consideration for others. I guess that's how rude behavior works doesn't it?
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Are you serious?
ye 3rd Aug 2010
@Letophoro: But just for fun, I usually record people like yourself and then play it back at maximum volume while watching the video once the conversation ends.

This just reinforces my point that you're complaining to complain. You don't like it so therefore you feel the need to record someone else's conversation and play it back to them? Seriously?
@oncall: ...annoying. I'll even go so far as to take a picture of someone and show them that wearing red is annoying. So is wearing red annoying? Or am I being an overly whiney person who is butting my nose into other people's business because they're doing something I disagree with?

A blissful lack of awareness and consideration for others. I guess that's how rude behavior works doesn't it?

I'm fully aware there are a lot of complainers out there who have nothing better to do with their time than to be concerned with what others are doing even though it doesn't even involve them. Some are so caught up in sticking their nose where it doesn't belong they actually record the conversation.
@ye

Here is a thought text the other person or wait until you can talk in a more private setting. I tired of overhearing loud mouths talking about there drunking orgy weekends or taking the wife/husbands and kids where ever. On Monday morning i want to sip my coffee in peace and start gearing up for the work week.
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@MLHACK: re is a thought text the other person or wait until you can talk in a more private setting.

I'm not going to adjust my calling habits merely because some whiney, sniveling idiot doesn't like that I'm talking on the phone around him.
@ye

You don't care who is listening why should it bother you that someone records what you are saying, tune it out. Recording it seems like a lot of effort, and would be rude, IMHO. However, if you are talking loudly in a restaurant such that I cannot carry on a conversation with the person I am having dinner with, well, you are making your business my business so you should have no expectations of privacy should you?

As far as what qualifies something as rude? Well you either learn it growing up or you don't. Taking your red clothes analogy, wearing red to a funeral might be considered very rude and disrespectful, unless it was the favorite color of the deceased.
@ye

"I'm not going to adjust my calling habits merely because some whiney, sniveling idiot doesn't like that I'm talking on the phone around him."

How rude of them! LMAO

Nice, both rude and arrogant, a fine combination. I am starting to wonder if you are just trolling us?
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Yes, I am serious.
Letophoro 3rd Aug 2010
@ye

The point is not that it's annoying to me to be forced to listen to someone else discuss the meaningless (to me) drivel that is their life.

The point is that people like yourself find themselves annoying when they they are actually forced to listen to what they make others listen to.

I can't help it if you don't like to listen to you any more than I or anyone else does.

It's not like I immediately record people either. It's only the ones that can't be bothered to dial it down from eleven when politely asked to keep it down.
@ye no different than a boombox. nobody wants to hear somebody else's music and nobody wants to listen to someone else's conversation, regardless of how interesting it is to you.
@sportmac: So feel free to ignore it.
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@oncall: Why would you care if he records a conversation?

I just think it's indiciative of the whiney, idiot who feels he's empowered to tell others what they should and should not do. Typical of someone so self absored with their opinion. If anyone doesn't like listening to my conversation then don't. It is really that simple.
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Not trolling at all.
ye 3rd Aug 2010
@oncall: Tired of you whiney, butt-into-everyone-elses-business jerks trying to tell others what to do. It's simple: Don't like listening to my conversation? Then don't. Yes, it is that easy!
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@Letophoro: You're doing so merely because you disagree with it. No one is pointing a gun to your head and saying "Listen to this conversation". Don't like it? Don't listen. Yes, it's that easy!
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WOW
oncall 3rd Aug 2010
@ye
"I just think it's indiciative of the whiney, idiot who feels he's empowered to tell others what they should and should not do.Typical of someone so self absored with their opinion."

Were you trying to be ironic or did it just come naturally?
@ye so you're the one!
over 6 billion people in the world and you're the one that's special. nothing, but nothing, is more important than what you want and when you want it.
just ignore it eh? so, if there are 30 people on a bus they can all try to ignore you because you don't have to consider them at all. they're insignificant. it's you you you you you. is that it pumpkin? sum it up does it?
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Why are you tired Ye?
oncall 3rd Aug 2010
@ye
"Tired of you whiney, butt-into-everyone-elses-business jerks trying to tell others what to do."

You shouldn't be tired at all. Have people been butting into your private conversations and asking you to tone it down? Just ignore them.

"Don't like it? Don't listen. Yes, it's that easy!"

wink
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Nothing special about me.
ye 3rd Aug 2010
@sportmac: it's you you you you you. is that it pumpkin? sum it up does it?

Damn straight. It's public transportation. If they don't like it tough. Why should I have to change my habits because a bunch of whiney idiots don't like something.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, wrong with having a conversation on a cell phone in public. Tired of hearing that it's some big imposition on others when it's not. They may not like it but tough.
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No, they don't.
ye 3rd Aug 2010
@oncall: Have people been butting into your private conversations and asking you to tone it down?

Sorry to burst your bubble.
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@ye

You're doing so merely because you disagree with it. No one is pointing a gun to your head and saying "Listen to this conversation". Don't like it? Don't listen. Yes, it's that easy!

Go stick your head near the exhaust of a jet engine spooling up for takeoff and then just not listen to it. It's easy. It's just white noise and should be easy to tune out.

Some things are simply too loud to not be heard. A loud phone conversation a foot or two away in a quiet area is one of them.

But enough of this. It appears from your replies to myself and others that you are simply trolling. If you aren't trolling, then I pity you.
@Letophoro: The fact you equate the two goes to show how irrational you are.

Some things are simply too loud to not be heard. A loud phone conversation a foot or two away in a quiet area is one of them.

The same goes for a conversation between two or more people. I don't see cries for people to stop talking to one another. And I don't buy that cop out that it's somehow louder when talking on the phone. That's an excuse whiney people such as yourself use to try and justify your argument.

But enough of this. It appears from your replies to myself and others that you are simply trolling. If you aren't trolling, then I pity you.

Not at all. Just telling you how it is.
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What than Ye?
oncall 3rd Aug 2010
@ye
"Sorry to burst your bubble."

So, no one is bothering you. Then why are you tired? Are you just tired in general or tired of people with opinions that differ from yours? Who are these whiny people that are making you tired, yet apparently not bothering you at the same time? If you could be bothered, which apparently you are not, but still tired of it anyway.

But if you are not bothered and you are not really tired maybe you are just one of the complainers here to complain. Making you one of the "whiny idiots" you despise so much. Is that it?

Well from one whiny idiot to another I will say it has been entertaining Ye.

wink
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oh pumpkin
sportmac 3rd Aug 2010
@ye "
Damn straight. It's public transportation. If they don't like it tough. Why should I have to change my habits because a bunch of whiney idiots don't like something."

well then, a boombox is ok no?

it's called common courtesy pumpkin. i'm sure at some point you'll learn about it. it's ok. it's difficult when one comes to the realization that the sun does not rise and set around them. you'll get there.
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I don't have problems with boomboxes.
ye Updated - 3rd Aug 2010
@sportmac: t's called common courtesy pumpkin.

Talking on a cell phone is no more discourteous than talking to some standing next to you. Though there are those who, for whatever reason, dislike people doing so and they feel the need to impose those beliefs on others. They're the kind of people who refer to others as "pumpkin". And they're whiney cry babies.
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oh dear boy
sportmac Updated - 4th Aug 2010
@ye it's ok dear lad. you'll get there. i know you're upset that no one here agrees with you but don't let it bother you.
you see, i could be upset that you call me and others names but i know that if we were standing toe to toe you'd wet yourself before those words would pass your lips, that yours is just keyboard courage, anonymous bravado. but it's ok pumpkin, that's all part of the process. you'll get there someday.
@ye:
"I have no problem tuning people out"

Obviously.
@raelalt: Do learn the difference.
@sportmac

I agree 110% not pisses me off more then the person in the group of friends who cannot keep they face off of the *ucking smart phone.
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Passwords won't work anymore
Hameiri 3rd Aug 2010
Many people have 3 or 4G and if they can't connect to the local Wi-Fi they will simply switch over to one of these.

I always figured this was a problem. A business has to figure whether accepting this behavior will cost them more than enacting a ban. Usually I would figure that letting people stay would make you more money in the long run than banning them. Good will is very important for a business, people will even pay for it.
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Rather than having ones employees take their attention away from paying customers to police a bunch of tech junkies. How could you even pull it off, have an employee walk around handing out "your time is up" stickers. A time limit for free wifi but that doesn't help with a lot of folks who have mifi cards and such or are studying off a CD. Like Bilton and his Kindle. OK, so now they let him stay with his Kindle but ask an iPad user (who was also there to have a cup of coffee and read) to leave. Now rather than the iPad user feeling merely irritated at a blanket rule evenhandedly applied he is downright offended at such "discrimination" and creates a scene.

And hey, guess what, where one business chases folks away another will step up to cater to these people. One of my local public libraries has taken up selling fancy coffees, go figure.
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@oncall: One of my local public libraries has taken up selling fancy coffees, go figure.

They're almost always funded by tax payer dollars.
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LOL
oncall 3rd Aug 2010
@ye
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Maybe we need Internet cafe's again.
dave95. Updated - 3rd Aug 2010
Remember the Internet cafe's of the past (are there any left)? Same concept but without the need for bulky computer station this time around. Coffee and desert, couch, tables, magazines and just a great place for social gathering etc. Just bring in your Kindle, iPad, laptops etc.

Such places could get more common as we become more mobile users. Places like Starbucks and Big chain book stores just opened up their wifi knowing there's a need.
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