Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

China warns Google over attack claims: Does it matter though?

By | June 6, 2011, 3:43am PDT

Summary: The China People’s Daily reportedly warned that Google’s disclosure could hurt business and create tensions with the U.S.

Google once again has become a diplomatic hot potato after the search giant disclosed that it fended off an attack to steal hundreds of email account holders, including U.S. government officials and Chinese human rights advocates.

The China People’s Daily reportedly warned that Google’s disclosure could hurt business and create tensions with the U.S. Reuters reported that the paper said: “Google should not become overly embroiled in international political struggle, playing the role of a tool for political contention.”

However, the English version didn’t have the editorial and the translation of the Chinese paper—via Google Translate—didn’t turn up much. There is an opinion on China cyberdiplomacy.

If you zoom out a bit though, Google will continue to be in the middle of this political banter over cybersecurity. Why? Google doesn’t have much to lose. After its first dustup with Google over cybersecurity, it’s fairly clear where business in China is headed.

Last week, Google disclosed the attacks and the following line got the Chinese government wound up.

This campaign, which appears to originate from Jinan, China, affected what seem to be the personal Gmail accounts of hundreds of users including, among others, senior U.S. government officials, Chinese political activists, officials in several Asian countries (predominantly South Korea), military personnel and journalists.

The goal of this effort seems to have been to monitor the contents of these users’ emails, with the perpetrators apparently using stolen passwords to change peoples’ forwarding and delegation settings.

The line for Google to walk is revealing what it can be sure is an attack related to the Chinese government vs. just using the country as a cybersecurity crutch.

Given the business relations with the Chinese, Google may the the only company that can tell the real deal.

Indeed, Trend Micro noted that Hotmail and Yahoo Mail were also targeted. Trend Micro said:

The objective of the attackers appears to be to gain access to the target’s Webmail accounts in order to monitor his/her communications and, possibly, to stage future attacks. In the recent case revealed by Google, the attackers used a phishing attack to gain access to the target’s Gmail account then proceeded to add their own email addresses to the “forwarding and delegation settings,” allowing them to send and receive email messages via the compromised accounts.

The difference with Google and other companies is business relations. It would be simply stupid to prod the Chinese government if you have hopes of doing business there. That’s the game. Google’s business in China is toast—or getting there—so there’s nothing to lose in disclosure (and perhaps a lot to gain).

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Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic.

Disclosure

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan has nothing to disclose. He doesn’t hold investments in the technology companies he covers.

Biography

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic. He was most recently Executive Editor of News and Blogs at ZDNet. Prior to that he was executive news editor at eWeek and news editor at Baseline. He also served as the East Coast news editor and finance editor at CNET News.com. Larry has covered the technology and financial services industry since 1995, publishing articles in WallStreetWeek.com, Inter@ctive Week, The New York Times, and Financial Planning magazine. He's a graduate of the Columbia School of Journalism and the University of Delaware.

For daily updates, follow Larry on Twitter.

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RE: China warns Google over attack claims: Does it matter though?
zelrikriando 7th Jun
Google should reply " Yes we are a political tool, so what?? We are a US corporation, attacking us is attacking USA".
It really is time to reconsider our relationship with China and make serious efforts to move a lot of that business back to the USA!
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It's way overdue
happyharry_z 6th Jun
@Peter Perry Enough Chinese slave labour already! It's the freeloading corporations that are to blame.
...and don't forget to spread some of that blame to consumers who are willing to drive mom-and-pop stores out of business so they can save a buck. Responsibility rests on all of us. Prices will go up so be prepared to put your money where your mouth is.
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Message has been deleted.
frvr@... Updated - 6th Jun
  • Flagged
@happyharry_z
I agree with MarkBieschke, but price isn't the only important point. Am I the only one irritated with the inferior quality of Chinese "cheap" products? I'd gladly pay twice the price for something that will last! In a quality war, the rest of the world wins.
@BitSmacker,

Totally agree...I would pay more for merchandise that lasts longer. And if it's made in the USA, that's also a plus because it that much less of my money that goes to pay for all the unemployed people. And this is not an anti-Chinese position, but rather a pro-USA one.

gary
@frvr
Normally I am a great adherent to "Dont feed the trolls" but I could not let this pass... "Communist nips"?! Really, using a pejorative term for the Japanese to refer to the Chinese government. It does not add any weight to your contribution to the world.
@happyharry_z

It's always the big bad corporations...

You know... those guys who employ us... err, are out to take our money and send their CEO's on a dream-cation...

Enough of the reterec already... save that for the union ralleys aimed at protecting our schools and saving our women and children...

I'll tell you what... the complaining stops where it starts... tired of China? Tell your politicians enough is enough... reach in your pockets and pay more for American, and it will be more, not necessarily better.

I am all for buying American, and there are quality American goods. Of course this means you can't necessarily keep up with your neighbors if your money is saving the County, not going farther...

Watch closely, and you will see that this Country is being sold out to China, and it is the consumers/voters that are moving us there, not a handful of people running the big bad corporations, you know, those companies that employ us (that and the government with the get paid for doing nothing programs that the rest of us fund).

The mirror is a powerful tool; in it you will see the first person who needs to start leading by example... We all have this tool, or access to one, and we all have someone stariing back at us who can help...

next...

-mark
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It's a structural/legal problem
WilErz Updated - 6th Jun
@ happyharry_z

You can't really blame consumers or even corporations. The problem is that the US system makes corporations solely accountable to shareholders seeking the highest short-run profits. Firms that move manufacturing to China are just playing the optimal strategy under the rules set up by the neoliberal US politicians. If you want to change the outcome, you've got to vote for politicians who will change the system.

A counter-example to the US is Germany, where co-determination means that corporations are accountable to multiple stakeholders. This includes the shareholders and the employees, represented on the supervisory boards by trade unions. I think this has an important impact on corporate behaviour. Corporations still relocate manufacturing to some degree, especially when it's a requirement for access to foreign markets (as it often is in China), but when I look at the products I use, from pens and paper to computers and cars, most of them are still made in Germany.
@frvr@-- You sound like an albino monkey,aka a low-iq honkie.
@BitSmacker, I have to disagree. The fact is that I have NOT seen lesser quality things from China. In fact, the quality between Chinese-made and American-made is so similar as to not make the American-made thing worth the added price.

The metals are the same, the plastics are the same, the solders are the same.... need I keep on going?
@Peter Perry Actually, it was time to do that long ago. Now it is HIGH time.
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Right on
frabjous 6th Jun
@Peter Perry Well said, and we need to prod our legislators to level the playing field, and vote with our feet when it comes to retail purchases. I, for one, do not shop at WalMart--and I wistfully remember their old, old "Made in the USA" ad campaigns. Now we are seeing the consequences of their sourcing decisions...
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The hack came from China
guihombre 6th Jun
The way for China to placate this is to help catch the phishers that originated from their territory.

If they're going to do the bluster and nonsense then it simply confirms that it was a government hack. Instead of "of course it wasn't a government attack, we're working with Google to locate the phisher..." We have "gee, we confess, how dare you catch us, you started it!"

What I'd like is a warning when a link in an email goes to a Chinese site. I know there are Chinese sites that are real businesses selling real services, but this kind of attitude means I don't trust them.

IMHO, I also want and end to manufacturing of logon tokens in China. Again, the Chinese authorities don't seem to want to catch these phishers, hence basic common sense means you can't ensure there aren't duplicates of all tokens.
@guihombre Well said sir.... Like you said this would be a non-story if they just said "We are trying to locate the Hacker's" But no all they said was they are pissed at Google for saying such a thing. I wouldn't trust china with as as far as I could throw Wen Jiabao. I think they think they are untouchable because of how much we owe them and how much we depend on there labor. But that willl all bite them in the @$$ one day prob not this year or next but one day.
China also invades Philippine waters in Kalayaan Islands!
@oldtechdudze That's modern china for you. Talk about peace, but keep up the truculent, arrogant acts.
@mejohnsn If you are an American citizen then tell me you're not being naive about the behaviour of your own CIA...
MacArthur was right!
@Tommy S. same to you, if you are an American citizen then tell me you're not being naive about the behaviour of your own CIA...
If China is where the Hack originated from then Google needs to say that is where it was from. If I got hacked and my neighbor did it I'd like to know it was from him not some random person. China's reaction to the claim by Google makes it more then just a claim in my book. I think that we will see more cyber attacks and soon this will lead to the next step in cyber warfare....... Daa Daa Daa Da da Daa Daa Daa Da da...... Skynet is coming.....
@nickitnite Haven't you been paying attention? Google already did this. They even narrowed it down to a town with a Chinese Military College.
"It would be simply stupid to prod the Chinese government if you have hopes of doing business there."

Then don't do business there, plain and simple. I fail to see why we try to act as if we somehow need to do business with a government that frankly bullies its own population.
@CobraA1 Why do we do this? Because with a few shining exceptions such as Google, we are idiots!
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Between the human rights violations it's heaps upon it's own citizens, it's complete disrespect of international law, and it's well documented attempts to spy-upon, hunt-down, and persecute/execute anyone who would dare speak out against it's crimes ... China's outrage should be considered high praise for Google.

Since our own government has already caved in to the enemy, granting them favored trading status despite their on-going crimes and idealogical intent to conquer and destroy the US, it seems that only a business with nothing to lose will stand up to the bully.

Sad, considering that protecting the citizens from foreign espionage is what the government is *supposed* to be doing...

regards,
Jon
"If the Chinese government didn't do these hacks, then their anger is self directed at losing control. If they did the hacks, then their anger is from being caught at it." Either way it's bad for them. Someone expressed this opinion some time ago at their first set of hacks and it seems nothing's changed.
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I think it's time to stop Chinese traffic from entering the country. Take a big 'ol honkin pair of cutters to those underwater cables.
When the targets are usually Chinese dissidents' and US state department persons' personal email accounts, it's kind of obvious that China has something to do with it.

The fact is on a daily basis my servers block hundreds if not thousands of chinese IPs for attempting to brute force SSH and attempting to authenticate with our mail relay to send spam.
We can hope that the Chinese people (probably the young now) will want to use a service that had enough honor to point out when some group is acting unethically. Even if it's possibility a government that threatens their profits.

If I lived in China, I'd only trust Google at this point forward. It seems the other mail providers either aren't aware they've been compromised or don't know how to handle it.

In fact, if I were in the Chinese government, I'd ONLY trust Google with my personal email since it can't be monitored by others in my government or outside governments.
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FACE, and the Saving Thereof...
MadYank Updated - 6th Jun
China, being "The Middle Kingdom" (and therefore between us lowly humans and the Gods Themselves; a higher form of life than us serfs and peasants) has NEVER been willing to admit ANY error - the Warlords wouldn't do it, Chiang Kai Shek wouldn't do it, and the Communists won't admit ANY Errors; it would entail a Loss of Face! They will go to war, they will sacrifice MILLIONS of their own peasants, they will kill millions of gwai devils (us foreigners) before the Mandarins-with-new-titles that currently infest The Hidden City in Beijing EVER admit being wrong about ANYTHING.
After all, they once thought they were wrong - but they made a mistake.
And ever since that day, Cities may rise and fall, plagues will course the land, death and destruction and warfare march throughout China - but the People's Republic of China will ALWAYS be right.
Chairman Mao said so.
Bring your own salt shaker.
And there was NEVER a virus, a hacker, or a malicious piece of code let out of the Ministry of State Security.
Honest.
This is sooo wrong. It sounds altogether so CIA, but of course the CIA wouldn't do anything like this now would they?
Adolf Hitler once said "The More Debt you have with a Country, the more Business you will do with that County." Until the US decides to payoff China, we will be forever beholden to them. I personally think the US has no intention of ever paying China, but instead allows them to run trade imbalances as payment. The US would create a Boogie Man in China, like we do in every other Country not named Russia or Great Britain and go to War with China before ever paying them off! So forget about Wally World ever going away and Mom & Pop returning to your local Downtown Area.
it doesn't matter. go phish.
Nothing the Chinese say has any credibility whatsoever. Google knew who did it, told everyone, and now Beijing will whine and cry foul, lying every inch of the way that they didn't do it. It must really rankle them that they cannot slam their totalitarian fist down on Google.

Other folk here have pointed out part of the problem and it needs to be reiterated. We need American goods, not Chinese, and it is something that the American people are going to have to start insisting on in the future. No amount of effort on our part is going to make China play by any rules that might be considered remotely fair.
Google should reply " Yes we are a political tool, so what?? We are a US corporation, attacking us is attacking USA".

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