Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

Did Apple iPhone 4 flap delay long-rumored Verizon Wireless debut?

By | July 19, 2010, 7:16am PDT

The flap swirling around the Apple iPhone 4 antenna and Steve Jobs’ defense of the device may have delayed a long-rumored move to Verizon Wireless, according to an analyst.

Many analysts and press reports have the iPhone as a lock coming to Verizon Wireless in the first quarter of 2011. But Piper Jaffray analyst Christopher Larsen says the Verizon-iPhone connection may not be that strong following antennagate—or whatever you want to call it (all iPhone coverage, Apple video sans press Q&A).

Larsen handicaps the carrier reaction to Apple’s iPhone 4 defense on Friday. In a nutshell, Apple’s performance was good for AT&T since it deflected attention from the carrier’s network. For Verizon Wireless, Apple’s performance may give it pause before adding the iPhone to its lineup. Larsen writes in a research note:

For AT&T, we think all the attention on Apple has actually relieved some network image pressure, but, the bigger telecom impact from this fiasco could be on Verizon customers waiting for their own device.

Verizon has historically been known for having a very rigorous qualification process to get phones on its network (years ago, it took Nokia two years to get a phone qualified.). Over time, Verizon has also been known for having phones later than other carriers – often due to demanding tests being completed by Verizon network engineers. While we can never know for sure, it is possible that this strict testing has helped Verizon maintain its strong network image (if all of Verizon’s phones are better tuned and engineered to not drop calls, then the network would appear better).

That’s an interesting point that lends credence to the emerging “Verizon doesn’t need the iPhone” argument. Larsen continues:

With huge apparent pent-up demand for a Verizon iPhone, we would have thought that Verizon would take any iPhone given to it and sell it immediately in order to maintain and win share. Then, this spring brought the second generation of Droid phones (the Incredible and, now, the X) – both of which appear to have given Verizon a stronger competitive response to the iPhone (one that has better economics to Verizon than an iPhone likely would). Now we have the iPhone antenna issue putting a damper on the device and potentially giving more strength to the Android platform.

Related: Droid X: Bigger, badder better

The kicker? Verizon Wireless may not take the iPhone unconditionally and that will delay Apple’s debut on the network. Now Larsen still argues that the iPhone will appear on Verizon—just not as fast as the current odds show.

Add all of this up and we can connect a few dots if Larsen’s iPhone-to-Verizon delay theory sticks:

  • Android has more runway to gain share since Verizon’s marketing heft will remain all about the Droids;
  • Verizon—after years of marketing against AT&T’s network—may be having second thoughts about Apple;
  • Apple could benefit from all of this in the long run. Let’s just say Verizon Wireless takes the iPhone 4 as currently constructed—even without the bumper. Verizon’s tests may go farther than an evidence put up by Apple last week if you assume that AT&T will take any iPhone thrown its way.

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Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic.

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Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan has nothing to disclose. He doesn’t hold investments in the technology companies he covers.

Biography

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic. He was most recently Executive Editor of News and Blogs at ZDNet. Prior to that he was executive news editor at eWeek and news editor at Baseline. He also served as the East Coast news editor and finance editor at CNET News.com. Larry has covered the technology and financial services industry since 1995, publishing articles in WallStreetWeek.com, Inter@ctive Week, The New York Times, and Financial Planning magazine. He's a graduate of the Columbia School of Journalism and the University of Delaware.

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RE: Did Apple iPhone 4 flap delay long-rumored Verizon Wireless debut?
tomlin21-24319035676893835085146735905770 11th Oct
Hey I assumed this was an extremely intriguing publish a lot of many thanks for pondering buy jerseys of it. You seem to be for being a really seasoned author.
voice and data at the same time on their network. No one wants to have their calls automatically routed to voicemail because they happened to be checking their email at the time.

It still amazes me how tech pundits jump all over Apple for an antenna issue that affects about 5% of the population and blithely pretends this Verizon elephant in the room doesn't even exist.

Just goes to show you that these guys aren't interested in informing.
@frgough

People also forget that Verizon is a business like any other. They have well over 3 million reasons why they would want the iPhone on their network.

Verizon is no stranger to issues with phones on their network, just none of them have been Apple branded so the blogosphere could care less.

I do agree that there needs to be some way to do data and voice at the same time. It's a feature people don't think they'd ever use until they have and find its quite useful. I would imagine that the issue would be something they would be able to figure out how to work out (or put the iphone on the 4g network).

Edit: Just to point out a previous phone that received a lot of complaints from the more tech savvy was the T720. The phone was advertised with FULL bluetooth compatibility and support, though Verizon would only allow you to use a headset with it. Want to transfer files, pictures, contacts? Sure, pay money to their service and receive scaled down images, or transfer using a usb cable and some horrid windows software. The problem came to the point where if you had the phone, rather then unlocking the rest of the BT profiles, Verizon was letting people out of their contracts early with no fee if they weren't happy. I was one of those users. I switched to the RAZR on AT&T (well, Cingular back then) and was much happier. Sure the T720 issues are not an issue any more, and the issues weren't so much issues then as most people didn't care. But the iPhone 4 antenna one isn't as big as people make it out to be now.
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Proof please
MSFTWorshipper 19th Jul 2010
@frgough Enough of this trolling. I'm not believe anything you see without proof.
@frgough

I have been with Verizon for 6 years now. No matter what phone I have used...be it a flip phone or a smart phone. I have never had a call "automatically routed" to voice mail because I was using a data service.
@Dorrod

I just a call rerouted to voicemail because I was on another call. Despite having call waiting and caller ID. And I still get voicemails showing up hours or days after the call was made to me. And I still get dropped calls while stationary.
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Apple's Voicemail Servers Built by AT&T
i2fun@... Updated - 19th Jul 2010
@Dorrod The 5yr Exclusive Contract required AT&T to build the infrastructure for Apple's exclusive Video/Voicemail, App Store & Walled Garden Network over the first year. This is the whole reason for the Exclusivity Contract in the first place. Here's an Apple insider's look at this, in this Fed Talk message to US Joint Forces Command:

http://lists.apple.com/archives/fed-talk/2008/Jul/msg00157.html

AT&T invested considerable funds and man hours in building the infrastructure for Apple's closed Garden Walled Network, App Store and Voice Mail. They also promised 3yrs of Unlimited data rates that has now expired on the 3yr anniversary of their original Apple Exclusivity Contract. From this message you can see that was extended in June 2008 to another 5yrs because of the trouble AT&T went through in building this infrastructure for Apple. Which makes it 2013 before it runs out. As it says even if that's wrong, it still means it won't expire until June 2012!

On top of this what do these idiots on Wall Street need to face the facts no iPhone is coming to Verizon. Verizon as good as said no iPhone for their Network. That Droids were doing quite well and that was from the CEO! Furthermore, Verizon joined with a group of some 40 global carriers to make their own App Market. The JIL Developer Tools site is well under way and I don't think Apple would like competing with what could well be the largest App Market on the Planet one day!

Plus Verizon (after disbanding their own Walled Garden Network) has seen what AT&T has gone through with getting blamed for all Apple's woes. They would have to had been working on building their Own Infrastructure for Apple iPlatform. That would keep it isolated from the rest of their customers like AT&T has done. This isn't Europe or Asia where iPhones aren't behind the Garden Walls. So their answer is still going to be NO NO NO!

This Christopher Larsen and all the other Wall Street Dreamers need to get a life and realized they aren't going to reach those inflated AAPL stock goals. iPhone is not coming to Verizon any time soon and definitely not before June 2012..... if ever!!! ....and as you saw today AAPL stocks continue their downward spiral!

btw... that's what happens when you are completely invested in Soft Assets. The bottom can fall out and you're left with nothing but paper!
@frgough
Don't think data/call will be an issue as this is the functionality that Verizon users are familiar with.

It will impact claimed functionality that Apple has touted for the iPhone though......
@frgough "voice and data at the same time on their network. No one wants to have their calls automatically routed to voicemail because they happened to be checking their email at the time."

Show how much you know. When I am surfing the web and someone calls me, the phone rings and I can stop surfing the web and answer it. Which is exactly like I do at home when someone calls me..I stop surfing the web and talk to them instead of half listening to them and continue doing my thing on the web.
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Not good enough
jivester Updated - 19th Jul 2010
@msprygada and if that person asked you a question about the content of an email or something that needed to get looked up on the internet... ur SOL...One reason why I remain on AT&T.

Does anyone know if this issue will be resolved on LTE networks?
@jivester Yes the LTE and the 4G tech will allow both data and voice. It's why I expect the next iPhone to be on Verizon 2q of 2011. I'm betting the next on will have a CDMA & LTE chip in it so it can use the LTE where available.
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Thanks for MISinforming everyone
Too_Busy_To_Be_Here 19th Jul 2010
@frgough - If you're using your data connection on Verizon and someone calls you, the data connection is suspended until the call completes and then picks up where it left off.

Just goes to show you that people will attempt to inform others even when they don't know what they're talking about.
@Too_Busy_To_Be_Here That still sucks. Ever been on a long concall and lost access to email and IM during the call? Sucks! That is the achilles heel of CDMA in this country. LTE shouldnt have this problem as everything is treated as data (voice, data, SMS).
@frgough
someone hears or reads something and tries to pass that information off as news and sometimes it may be, but I suggest that one should check ones sources before passing along information as relevant and true. I have been a Verizon customer for 5 years, and I currently have the Moto-Droid, when I have an incoming call and I am using the web for ANY reason the call doesn't go directly to V-mail, the phone rings. The phone system has always done it this way, I started with the Treo phones and had a Q and Omnia before the Droid. I have not tried to access the web while on a call, maybe that's the test.
@frgough Well unless Verizon's network is different than Sprints network, this is not the case. While it is true that I cannot go on the internet via 3G (although I might be able to via 4G once its available in my area) while I'm in a call, if I am on the net when I get a call, it throws me off the net and rings the phone. It has been this way for about 2-3 years now. So I'm not sure what your talking about.
@Jimster480 I don't know why you all are explaining this to him. The iPhone isn't capable of doing this type of stuff and thats what he's basing his assumption on. You know iFools don't understand anything outside of the iPhone so why bother.
@frgough Wow...I didn't know the iPhone sucked this bad!!! You mean it doesn't interrupt whatever you're doing to bring the phone call to the front? Yea I think it better stay on AT&T at this point until they catch up to Google in software engineering.
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The whole iPhone/Android thing is making my rep and me sick. We all know the reason Verizon does not want the iPhone: they want the marketing flexibility for Windows Phone 7. My rep showed me a top-secret commercial for Windows Phone 7 from Verizon. It shows a bunch of hipsters in the mall, walking and laughing when one of them fires up PowerPoint and reviews a slide deck for school. The other fires up IE and launches into a web browsing eXPerience that is 2nd to none. My rep and I are at Starbucks and our drinks are ready, so ciao for now.
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8/10
MSFTWorshipper 19th Jul 2010
@Mike Cox Why not at yarrows Mike? What about the scones?
@Mike Cox

Nice one. I lol'd.

Seriously, WinMo 7 might turn out to be good, but again, as a business why would Verizon at this point NOT want the iPhone on their network? Unless of course, their network can't really handle the data load.

Come on people. Think of how many users would jump ship and go Verizon if they could have an iPhone there. The geek world might prefer Android, but the average joe would prefer an iPhone if they could have one. Proof? The millions of users with iPhones that ***** about AT&T's signal day in and day out, yet stick with it.
@tk_77

I can think of a couple potential reason, as a business, that they might not want the iphone. Margins are ofter much smaller than people think and small things can easily change profitability to loss.

1. Apple won't give them terms that make them enough money to bother, no matter how popular the phone is. Remeber, AT&T is the only provider because it was initially the only one willing to take them on, on the terms Apple gave them which are not standard terms.

2. The cost of upgrading the network to support all the notoriously heavy data using iphones (with their not-so-great signal strength) outweighs the benefit of the user base.
@tk_77 Not that many people really want the iphone. It's not as big as you think it is. Don't you think that since the iphone has been out for 3 years now that if anyone was going to jump ship they would have by now?
@Guyver21 Yeah, only 3 million people bought the iPhone 4 is 3 weeks, not that many people at all. Given the hatred for AT&T I would suspect there are at least that many people that would pick up an iPhone in a heartbeat if available on another network let alone those that have one now but want out of AT&T.
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eXPerience?
Economister 19th Jul 2010
@Mike Cox

If I gave you may e-mail, could you just send me that commercial. I promise I will not tell or show it to anybody, I just cannot stand the wait. wink
@Economister

Um, you do realize that that post was tongue in cheek, right?
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So...
trickytom2 19th Jul 2010
@Mike Cox

Your "rep" entrusted you with a "top secret" bit of info and you posted it on a blog? Nice.
@trickytom2
You apparently have no idea who "Mike Cox" is.
Get with the program.
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Don't get last bullet
Economister 19th Jul 2010
I have trouble following the logic in the last bullet. I am absolutely certain that Apple understands the antenna issue perfectly well, and do not need Verizon to help them out. Apple simply made a "form over function" decision that kind of blew up in their faces.
@Economister
Bull. Period.
While this is often stated, it is categorically untrue that Apple designs reflect a form over function philosophy. In fact, it is COMPLETELY the opposite. Their design metric revolves entirely around function. Please give examples where you claim Apple chose form over function.

And FTR, the antenna issue is NOT an example. What every you think of the issue, the antenna was designed the way it was to increase reception in most environments (a task at which it SUCCEEDS! The antenna bridging almost NEVER occurs in real life, which is why you do NOT hear an uproar from actual consumers about the issue. In fact, the external antenna is one reason the iP4 is significantly faster than the 3GS.)
@DeusExMachina
If the design really improves reception, then why does the phone drop *more* calls than the 3GS? This was straight from the mouth of Steve Jobs at the press conference.
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Two questions
becabill 25th Jul 2010
@DeusExMachina 1.What is the gain of the IP4 antenna in its optimum situation and 2. What is the gain with a finger across the feedpoint?
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RE: Did Apple iPhone 4 flap delay long-rumored Verizon Wireless debut?
Pete "athynz" Athens Updated - 19th Jul 2010
@Economister That's not entirely accurate there old boy. I'll grant these figures might be a bit skewed but since they are the only hard numbers I've seen yet there is a return rate of only 1.7% on the iPhone 4... so that is presuming that 1.7% of the purchasers of the iPhone 4 are unsatisfied while - also presuming - that 98.3% of those who purchased the iPhone 4 are satisfied with their purchase. I wish I had a 98% satisfaction rate with something that blew up in my face...
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iPhone Just not that special, anymore.
trickytom2 19th Jul 2010
I'm sorry, but its true. I have the new iPhone4 and its fine, but my wife has an EVO and its just as good...better in many ways. My kids both have 'droids, as well.

The iPhone is just another smartphone. It's a great phone, but its no longer the only great smartphone. It simply doesn't hold the same magic that it once did.
@trickytom2 This has to be one of the smartest comments I have heard in weeks regarding all the smartphone crap out there. Well put trickytom2.
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True but...
jivester Updated - 19th Jul 2010
@msprygada just to point it out....Apple created their own mockingly hostile competitive world with their "make fun of PC's" commercials. The hype in the blogosphere is well deserved...its a serious issue that has only been met with the arrogance that Jobs continues to display...they dug their own grave on this one, now that have to lay in it!
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Apple created their what?
His_Shadow 19th Jul 2010
@jivejester Are you serious? Where the Hell have you been for 25 years?

Let me clue you in. For the last 25 years or more, the mediocre Windows PC world and the virus infested swamp it created was full of arrogant shits who couldn't wait to tell someone how stupid, irrelevant or useless Apple and it's products where. Yet Apple survived, and now thrives. So when the Mouse Clicking Solutions Experts tried to pretend that one OS on 98% of PCs was "choice" because it had a different box assembler sticker on the same hardware, now that people actually *have* a choice we have to hear about what a monster Apple is for surviving the 90s. It's that simple. Pundits and tech bozos of all stripes believed their wasn't a market Microsoft couldn't control by exerting it's illegal monopoly. Now that that has been exposed as a fantasy, it's time to denigrate Apple for being popular because they make products people want to buy.

Get over it. Apple is on top of their game and was always the one to look to for leadership in the tech industry.
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Not "on top of their game"
trickytom2 19th Jul 2010
@His_Shadow
Apple isn't "on top of their game". They just admitted a major design flaw in their flagship product. They also admitted a serious design flaw in the Time Capsule. Now they've admitted to bugs in the IOS4 bluetooth which have to be addressed.

Apple's PR has begun to wear off, and we're finding out it's just like any other company; they make mistakes. They aren't some annointed diety that has the market on wisdom and innovation.

Again, I like Apple products, but the fanboys have to take a reality break and understand that there are products that rival and even outperform the iPhone.

I know I'll get plenty of comments on this thread from outraged fanboys who cannot fathom that their close personal friend Steve would build something that wasn't "magical'..
@His_Shadow
And, at the top is where most fall from! He!, he!, he!
Tom, you're exactly right. The iPhone (I've got a 3GS) just isn't that "magical" anymore. The fact that iOS4 works on my 3GS just fine totally keeps me from wanting an iPhone 4. With iOS4 on my 3GS I enjoy the update and have more time to look at what's available as I finish out the last year of my contract with AT&T. The difference is when I got my 3GS is was "magical", a year from now I know I'm going to get to choose from LOTS of good Android phones, and maybe even a iPhone 5. Plus, I'm positive there will be several that will be "magical" again.
@fugate@... The fact that iOS4 works on my 3GS just fine totally keeps me from wanting an iPhone 4. That almost makes me want to get an iPhone 3Gs instead... iOS 4 is pretty slow on my 3G and I'm pretty much jonesin for the iPhone 4 so I can see what iOS4 can really do.
@trickytom2

Excellent post!!! And I agree 100%. As an IT manager, when users ask me for smartphone advice, I ask which carrier they are with. If they're with AT&T, I send them to the iPhone. It's a great consumer device. If they're with pretty much anyone else, I tell them to check out the Android devices.

Personally, I've never cared much for the iPhone. It's nice and all and I have an iPod touch which is basically the same thing without the phone piece; but being a geek, I like something more open. I've been using a Nexus One for the last few months and I like it very much. But I got an iPhone for my wife and she's happy as can be with it most of the time...
@trickytom2 Waitaminute... YOU own an iPhone 4? YOU of all people? Damn, the world is gonna end... happy
Don't AT&T still have a contact with Apple not to sell the iPhone to any other providers?

So what are we talking about here. Unless Apple is willing to break it; end of story.
@krismartin56
Why not find out yourself before posting. There is a site called google that might help you. But to answer your question, no, the contract is about to expire.
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Verizon took the Droid Incredible
Bruizer 19th Jul 2010
And it can be made to drop calls just as easily as the iPhone 4 when held wrong.

So what is the point of this blog?
@Bruizer

It's not a question of whether it can be made to drop calls, but rather how difficult it is to make it do that. Sure I can throw it in the ocean and I'm fairly sure it will drop a call....
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Enoug ALready
His_Shadow 19th Jul 2010
There will be no Verizon iPhone til two things arrive.

A: Verizon is LTE

B: The year 2012

What the f#$% is so hard about this?
@His_Shadow
I would also add:
C. AT&T is LTE

No way Apple releases an LTE iPhone to Verizon before AT&T is ready for it as well. That would surely lead to a mass exodus, and piss off AT&T enough to make them actually care about, improve, and promote their Android and WP7 offerings.
@His_Shadow

What's so hard about is called "Apple."
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keep on dreaming...
fuzzlogue 20th Jul 2010
@His_Shadow

What the f#$% is so hard about it is called "Apple"
@ trickytom2

Made any dual-camera FaceTime calls on your Evo yet? I didn't think so, but you probably will, because (like just about everything else that's happened in the smartphone world in the past three years or so) Apple has done the trailblazing work to make that happen, and everyone else should copy that feature within the next nine months or so. And how's that 4G thing workin' out for ya? I'm sure there are 4G spots just about everywhere . . . in a "not" way. Would iPhone owners like to access Flash content? Sure they would, but about the only way that could happen is if some smartphone manufacturer improved battery life drastically enough to make that possible. (Oh wait, Apple just did that with the ten-hour battery in the iPhone 4.) By the way, how's that 30fps, full-resolution video workin' out for ya on those Droids?

Yeah, who in their right mind would want an iPhone, when there are such obviously superior products are out there? By the way, don't believe a word that evil Jobs says about other phones having antenna problems similar to the iPhone. You just know Apple planted all those YouTube videos showing that months ago, knowing everyone would complain about the iPhone 4, and their demonstrations duplicating the YouTube videos are all cynical fakes.
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RE: Did Apple iPhone 4 flap delay long-rumored Verizon Wireless debut?
tomlin21-24319035676893835085146735905770 11th Oct
Hey I assumed this was an extremely intriguing publish a lot of many thanks for pondering buy jerseys of it. You seem to be for being a really seasoned author.

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