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Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video

By | October 12, 2010, 9:42am PDT

Summary: Facebook posts a zinger of a line in a blog post today that goes to the heart of the Adobe-Apple dispute over the use of Flash

In a blog post this morning around Facebook’s efforts to implement HTML5 technology into its mobile offerings, the company had one line that stood out from the rest:

While we tested this new player on other mobile browsers, we found that Flash still outperformed their HTML5 video implementations.

The player the company is referring to is a new HTML5 video player that supports high-definition H.264 video for iPhone and iPad users. You’ll recall that, back in the Spring, Apple CEO Steve Jobs penned an open letter that explained his company’s decision to avoid using Adobe Flash on its mobile iPhone, iPod and iPad devices.

In a nutshell, Jobs called Flash - among other things - a “closed system” that has “one of the worst security records” and “has not performed well on mobile devices.”

Today’s Facebook post focuses on some of the places where the company is already implementing HTML5 technology - but it was interesting that the company would add that one line, a zinger of sorts in the Apple-Adobe war over Flash.

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Topics

Facebook, HTML 5, Video, Sam Diaz

Sam has been a technology and business blogger for more than 18 years.

Disclosure

Sam Diaz

Sam Diaz has nothing to disclose.

Biography

Sam Diaz

Sam has been a technology and business blogger, reporter and editor at ZDNet, the Washington Post, San Jose Mercury News and Fresno Bee for more than 18 years. He's a member of the National Association of Hispanic Journalists and a graduate of California State University, Fresno.

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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
jackson1984-24316069205748857739440257893812 10th Oct
Worthwhile publish. I completely concur with reebok jersey all sorts of important things you have gotten authored.
View in thread
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Explain, please.
Userama 12th Oct 2010
How does one video system "outperform" another? Frames/sec? Video quality? It's certainly not power consumption, because Flash heats one's lap quicker than anything.
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
darkkevind 13th Oct 2010
@Userama
If you had an EXOPC slate, you wouldn't get a hot lap!
http://kevindark.co.uk/Blog.aspx?i=1&tg=EXOPC
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
astroes 13th Oct 2010
@Userama QOS
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
Matt_Fabb@... 14th Oct 2010
@Userama
Likely CPU consumption & high quality video at a smooth frame rate, which in turn can affect battery life.

Here's a test a video site did earlier this year, using the same video in both HTML5 video player and Flash video player and at times Flash came out ahead and sometimes HTML5:
http://www.streaminglearningcenter.com/articles/flash-player-cpu-hog-or-hot-tamale-it-depends-.html

However, that was done while Flash Player 10.1 was still in beta and the Mac version didn't have hardware acceleration working yet. With Flash video using GPU on a Mac performance it likely better, tying the few times that HTML5 beat Flash in this previous test.

Moving the rendering from the CPU to the GPU not only increases speed, but should increase battery life.
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
cyberslammer 12th Oct 2010
At least with HTML 5 I don't have to worry about some constant zero-day exploit and be badgered by an Adobe updater.
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At least is right.
trickytom3 12th Oct 2010
@cyberslammer

It isn't our fault that Apple products can't run Flash. The rest of us don't have a problem.

You go complain to Steve while the rest of us enjoy ALL of the Web.
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
Gerald Shields 12th Oct 2010
@trickytom3 All of the Web while we have to worry about:
1) Flash crashing all the time.
2) Banner ads written in Flash.
3) Vulnerabilities in Flash security.

Yeah, the FULL web . . . with all the warts.
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Master Joe Says...Netflix
MasterJoe 13th Oct 2010
@trickytom3 I recall Netflix saying they prefer Microsoft Silverlight to Flash because it breaks less and is mroe reliable. They got to let go of a lot of their software support people because of that. Maybe it should be Flash vs. HTML 5 vs. Silverlight, and not a two player game of just Flash and HTML 5?

In any case, I don't disagree with the trickytom3 post. But, anyone who thinks that not having the most widely supported video platform available on their device is a good thing is either a liar or dillusional. Many of the die-hard Apple fans are a combination of the two. But, let them live that life I guess. Like I said below, Jobs blasts Flash for being everything that Apple is (closed, insecure, buggy, etc.). Pot and the kettle, Mr. Jobs. Pot and the kettle.

--Master Joe
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
ItsTheBottomLine 13th Oct 2010
@MasterJoe - Nicely said... as usual
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
Robert Hahn 12th Oct 2010
It is not helpful to write articles pretending that "HTML5 video is open" (as a contrast with the 'closed' Flash) when the HTML5 video in question is using H.264, which is a -patented-, proprietary technology that requires users to pay a royalty for its use. This glaring error of fact appears ion almost every article one sees concerning this subject. According to Wikipedia, these patents will not expire until 2028. Stop telling people that H.264 is an "open technology." It most certainly is not. And putting an HTML5 wrapper around it does not make it one.
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WRONG! MPEG Licensing Authority has waved all licensing fees forever
doctorSpoc 12th Oct 2010
@Robert Hahn - you don't know what you're talking about.. educate yourself..

The MPEG Licensing Authority has announced that it will indefinitely extend royalty-free Internet broadcasting licensing of its H.264 video codec to end users, erasing a key advantage of Google's WebM rival and cementing Apple's preferred H.264 as the video format for modern HTML5 video on the web.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/08/26/apple_supported_h_264_standard_gains_free_license_for_internet_video_use.html

On August 26, 2010 MPEG LA announced that H.264 encoded internet video that is free to end users will never be charged for royalties.[11] All other royalties will remain in place such as the royalties for products that decode and encode H.264 video.[12] The license terms are updated in 5-year blocks.[13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
Jeffsters 13th Oct 2010
@Robert Hahn
LOL...like people that say Android is "Open" which it most certainly is not.
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Master Joe Says...Open
MasterJoe 13th Oct 2010
@Robert Hahn It's interesting that Apple would criticise a system for not being open, when they are about as closed as it gets. And, for security, they have the most security vulnerabilities of any software company for the first half of 2010 (half or quarter?). Either way, Jobs has a bad habit of blasting other companies for things his own company is guilty of. The pot calling the kettle black is the analogy that comes to mind. In any case, for Apple to complain that Flash is not open is a laugh in and of itself.
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
snoop0x7b 13th Oct 2010
@Robert Hahn doctorSpoc it will remain free to END USERS but not to developers USING or IMPLEMENTING the codec. It isn't a free and open system unless anyone can implement it. Their statement left a huge opening for them to charge someone like the Mozilla foundation a royalty for distributing the codec as well as any third party who chooses to implement it.
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
Matt_Fabb@... 14th Oct 2010
@cyberslammer
Instead you will get more zero day browser exploits, with your browser badgering for another security update.
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Flash performs horribly on OS X...
olePigeon 12th Oct 2010
Flash performs horribly on OS X, and not because of the OS or the hardware, but because Flash was never optimized for OS X. It's a piece of crap. Mac users view Flash on OS X like Windows users view iTunes on Windows. It sucks. No one wants it.

Why would I want it on my iPad or iPhone? Flash can barely run 1080p video on a dual 6-core Xeon.
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Yes.
Tigertank 12th Oct 2010
@olePigeon

This.
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
itguy08 12th Oct 2010
@olePigeon

It's fine on my Macbooks....
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
Jeffsters 13th Oct 2010
@itguy08

Really? I want your MacBook!
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
snoop0x7b 13th Oct 2010
@olePigeon Where are you looking at a 1080p video with flash? What site has that and where can I get some?
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
DavidRecordon 12th Oct 2010
I'm David Recordon and work on open source and standards at Facebook. While we've only rolled out our HTML5 video player to iPhone and iPad today, we're confident that other platforms will also have strong HTML5 video implementations in the future.
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
WaltFrench@... 12th Oct 2010
@DavidRecordon, I'd appreciate your filling in the details on this maddeningly incomplete post.

Neither "Flash" nor "HTML5" defines a video codec, so it's hard to know what the blog post is comparing.

But both formats support h.264 video, and one would presume that either a Flash or HTML5 player would have the technical potential for playing either equally well, assuming similar assumptions and tradeoffs made. (For example, I understand that transparency, refresh cycles and other issues can result in extremely different workloads.)

So what does it mean that "Flash still out-performs HTML5" ? That a summer project browser isn't as well developed as Adobe's player? That certainly is not the meaning that ZDNet took.
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Never have a problem with Flash
trickytom3 12th Oct 2010
I never have a problem running Flash.

The only people who seem to have problems running Flash are those with underpowered systems, and those who let Steve Jobs decide what they should view.
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
cyberslammer 12th Oct 2010
I'm trickytom3, fake CIO, and I endorse this message.
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
Jeffsters 13th Oct 2010
@trickytom3

LOL...spoken like a true Flash Fanboi!
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Diaz, please be a journalist
mrgoodall 12th Oct 2010
The blog post said, "A summer intern, Carl Jackson, built a new HTML5 video player with support for high-definition H.264 video which is rolled out to iPhone and iPad users. While we tested this new player on other mobile browsers, we found that Flash still outperformed their HTML5 video implementations."

Thats it. The only browser that runs on iPhone/iPad is Safari. Other mobile browsers on what other devices? With what specs? There are myriad other issues at play, yet you spun the quote to fit your needs. Disappointing dude, really disappointing.
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
ed.sealing 12th Oct 2010
@mrgoodall: I have to agree with you on this one. I've been studying Flash vs HTML5 on my Linux box, with different browsers (including "Hardware acceleration" in Chrome and Flash). There are too many factors to take into account.

e.g. HTML5 can mean either H.264 or VP8 (webm container). Many hardware systems have H.264 hardware acceleration, however none that I've found have VP8 acceleration. Flash has hardware acceleration in version 10 (and typically flash players use H.264 codecs anyway).

If they tested a VP8/webm implementation of HTML5 (which is where it looks like HTML5 is going), then it doesn't surprise me that Flash may outperform it. I've found the same results... However, HTML5 with H.264, with hardware acceleration, would kick Flash's butt any day of the week.

It's only a matter of time until VP8 is made the official standard, and gets hardware acceleration included in the major chips. Nvidia, and AMD/ATI have already said they are bringing it to market soon, and Intel is currently pondering it in it's next ATOM chips.

Just because a facebook summer intern builds a video player that can't compete with Flash doesn't mean that Flash is any better than HTML5 (H.264 or VP8). This is more like gossip than news...
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So summer intern builds a crappy video player
wackoae Updated - 12th Oct 2010
@ed.sealing@... but somehow his failure to produce a decent player is associated with the performance of HTML5

His product is the failure, not the standard he used to build a poorly written product.
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
petemonsy 12th Oct 2010
You can argue all you like about Flash & HTML5, but Flash was never ready for mobile web browsing platform in 2007 since the release of the iPhone, much of the smartphones those days couldn't even surf the web properly.... nobody going wait around for them forever to get their act together just to deliver proper video on mobile devices...

Say what you like, but Apple brought a lot to the table when they introduce the iPhone in 2007
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
AdanC 13th Oct 2010
I wonder what these clowns at Facebook are really doing - comparing HTML 5 which in the early stages of development whereas Flash has been in many years of under development, er, development.

Facebook has lost it relevance when they started monkeying with the privacy issues.
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
windozefreak 13th Oct 2010
@AdanC
How about Google??
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I just love Jobs and his FUDisms...
ReadWryt (error) 13th Oct 2010
...one could, without overstating or embellishing, accurately state that Quicktime is a ?closed system? that has ?one of the worst security records? and ?has not performed well on mobile devices.? . Welcome to the world of proprietary software Steve...
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
shanedr 13th Oct 2010
So we have a choice - performance or security.

Perhaps we need a HTML6 or just maybe performance is inherently unsecure.
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FaceBook Videos work for me
andjoh 14th Oct 2010
I've never had any issue with the Videos on FaceBook using Safari and not the third party app on my iPad, so they do have some other format and not just Flash and I've had the iPad since Aussie launch so don't think FaceBook implemented HTML5 with in the short time of US release to our release, so who cares?
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RE: Facebook: Flash still outperforms HTML5 on video
jackson1984-24316069205748857739440257893812 10th Oct
Worthwhile publish. I completely concur with reebok jersey all sorts of important things you have gotten authored.

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