Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

Google, Microsoft, Yahoo as Ford, GM and Chrysler

By | December 22, 2008, 2:50am PST

Could Google, Microsoft and Yahoo be the equivalent of Ford, GM and Chrysler more than 60 years ago?

That thought provoking question was raised by Bernstein analyst Jeffrey Lindsay, who cooks up weekend missives designed to make you go hmmm. The argument is an interesting one. Lindsay notes that the downturn of 2001 to 2003 in Web advertising–AOL imploded and Yahoo fumbled–allowed Google to emerge. Instead of buying Google, the future search giant went public and owned the sector.

Fast forward a bit and MySpace, YouTube and Facebook had no shot at going public. Facebook had its IPO shot, but blew it. Lindsay says:

Will the current downturn provide the condition for the next Google to emerge – and if so where will it come from? The  problem  today  is  that  today’s internet  players  have formidable cash  piles which  they  can use  to buy  up almost  anything.  The  venture  capital  players that  brought  the internet  sector  into  being  have  generally  less  cash  to  hand and are becoming increasingly interested in other sectors.

The parallel with the auto industry? Buick, Oldsmobile and Chevrolet were the high tech startups industry of the 1940s. They were gobbled up to become GM. I thought Lindsay was stretching a bit when I read through his research note. But then I pondered Yahoo, which has Flickr, Delicious, Rivals.com, Zimbra and a bunch of other properties in its collection. Are these properties really any different than the nameplates and brands that GM and Ford have?

Microsoft and Google are similar stories. Any company that may be a threat someday is gobbled up. In the last two years, Microsoft has made an acquisition every three weeks, according to a Wikipedia tally. Google has made an acquisition every five weeks over the last two years. And why are all of these acquisitions happening? Microsoft, Google and Yahoo all have too much dough that theoretically should be returned to shareholders.

Lindsay writes:

We think having massive cash reserves causes the internet companies to do the wrong thing.  Microsoft has operated  a  loss-making  online  services  division  now  for years.  Current projections suggest that the company’s online activities may  lose  $1.5  billion  in  2009  –  just  to  keep  the option  open  for Microsoft  to  expand  its  online  activities  in the future.   The net effect of Microsoft  subsidizing  its  lossmaking online  activities  is  that  it  creates  problems  for  the other players – such as Yahoo! and AOL.  Having three Web 1.0 portals around in the current market ensures that there is overcapacity  in  display  advertising.   Nobody  at  the minute can  get  even halfway  decent  CPMs,  because  these  three players  are  supporting  three  large  sales  forces,  three  ad serving  platforms  and  are  cutting  each  other’s  throat  on pricing.  Add to that the fact that all three are supporting one or  two network/exchanges each.   Each of  the  large  internet players owns  an  in-house  ad  exchange  network now.   This virtually  ensures  that  nobody  can  get  any  pricing  power  in display  and  that  the  premium  ad  display  business  is constantly  undermined  by  bargain  basement  pricing  on  the network/exchanges.

Lindsay says that Google is better than Microsoft and Yahoo but it’s blowing money at a rapid clip on inefficient product development. The point: Companies with a ton of cash can be stupid. Would the eBay have acquired Skype if it had to raise funding from Wall Street?

Lindsay’s argument continues:

While we would be among the first to agree with the general principles of Chandler’s “Coming of Managerial Capitalism” that  consolidation  is  the  inevitable  corollary  of  increasing efficiency in almost all industries, we think the maturation of the  internet  sector  is  being  accelerated  by  the  large players with big cash piles. Quite simply the internet sector is getting old before its time because  several large players are buying up just about anything that looks interesting and the venture capital sector is much less active.  What makes things worse is that the large players are not doing much with these new technologies  and  innovative  management  teams  once  they take them inside. Nor is this necessarily a good situation for shareholders.  We would  further  argue  that  today’s  internet  players  are increasingly  acting  like  yesterday’s  media  conglomerates.  Arguably this has already been the downfall of AOL and has been a major factor in Yahoo!’s recent demise. The problem  with  the Web  1.0  portal model  is  that  they  all  copy  each other’s strategies.

Examples of copycat “innovation” abound. AOL launches a photo site, Yahoo copies and then buys Flickr. MSN follows with a copycat. Google gets Picasa. There are four finance portals–AOL Finance, Yahoo Finance, Google Finance and MSN Finance. It’s a similar situation for personals sites.  Are these sites really necessary?

The bright side:  A downturn is forcing these companies to cut back on spending. Google may not need those additional data centers. Microsoft and Yahoo still may become pals. AOL.com will eventually merge into another portal. However, there are no guarantees that these Internet giants won’t continue to be dumb with their dollars. If the likes of Google, Yahoo and Microsoft continue on their current path they could be on a fast track to a Detroit-like future, argues Lindsay. He concludes:

To  our  grandparent’s generation Detroit was the equivalent of Silicon Valley – we would  rather  the  internet  remained  a  source  of  innovation  and wealth for future generations.

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Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic.

Disclosure

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan has nothing to disclose. He doesn’t hold investments in the technology companies he covers.

Biography

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic. He was most recently Executive Editor of News and Blogs at ZDNet. Prior to that he was executive news editor at eWeek and news editor at Baseline. He also served as the East Coast news editor and finance editor at CNET News.com. Larry has covered the technology and financial services industry since 1995, publishing articles in WallStreetWeek.com, Inter@ctive Week, The New York Times, and Financial Planning magazine. He's a graduate of the Columbia School of Journalism and the University of Delaware.

For daily updates, follow Larry on Twitter.

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RE: Google, Microsoft, Yahoo as Ford, GM and Chrysler
gm52 25th Aug 2009
DVD To iPhone Converter is also known as an affiliated editor. There are trim function to get only one part of the video, crop function to alter video dimension.
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Well - Microsoft IS General Motors
RobWLA Updated - 22nd Dec 2008
Decades ago - Microsoft arrived - using a novel yet
familiar business model.

They rushed into new, immature markets with poorly
designed products & aggressive marketing ? and
cornered us into accepting their design philosophies
before we (or even they) could sufficiently think
them through - or develop alternatives.

Like General Motors in the '50s, Microsoft played
hardball.

When GM bought the land out from under Los Angeles?
train system in the 1940?s ? they ripped up the
tracks just to prevent rail-based competition ?
resulting in traffic jams that haunt LA to this day.

Microsoft did the same with Netscape and scores of
others ? with similar results.

And like GM - Microsoft ran into difficulty when
other - more determined - firms started marketing
cleaner, simpler and more reliable alternatives to
their products.

As Honda did to GM ? Mac did to Microsoft ? shaming
them into costly redesigns.

But other history provides even more insight to
Microsoft's products and behavior.

Every generation has its fascinations. Back in the
'30s it was shortwave radio, with kids huddled
around glowing tube sets. In the '50s it was hot-rod
cars. In the 60?s it was TV. In the '70s it was
Japanese electronics with ludicrous quantities of
tiny buttons and bloated user-manuals that only a
shut-in would ever read.

The very same ?70s that spawned Bill Gates.

And so the '80s begat the computer age - with the
same attendant adolescent overkill.

Interestingly ? as programmers spend less time
inside their pc?s ? and more time on the web -
they?ll probably migrate to integrated PC/TV sets ?
eventually morphing into simple TV addicts once
again - completing the virtuous cycle.

Notice how PC magazines today cover more cameras,
Ipods and TVs than programming languages ? the more
things change, the more they stay the same. But I
digress.

Back at Microsoft - what was "feature-rich" to
hobbyists became tiresome "bloat-ware" to the rest
of us.

Even Bill Gates got caught on an Email cursing a
developer over how difficult it was to run their new
applications. It wasn?t the developer?s fault he had
to work under Microsoft?s bloated methodologies - it
was Bill?s fault.

Gates built his business on simple paranoia ? he had
to be everything to everybody ? so no one ?
absolutely no one ? would ever go elsewhere for
solutions.

This paranoia resulted in the endless introduction
of ?features? into an already shaky Windows
architecture and across their product range ?
driving them to the point of being unstable and un-
maintainable.

Microsoft?s penchant for writing bloated, slow
operating systems, then embedding every possible
feature into every possible product-offering, and
cross-referencing them so you can?t even type a web
address in a Word document without the damn thing
trying to logon to the Internet ? is ? well, a
formula for disaster.

Recent Internet Explorer security fiascos allowing
Word doc?s to transmit harmful Active-X code is just
another example.

I mean - a BROWSER brought down by a WORD document ?
OH STOP IT !

Today?s computer and Internet vulnerabilities,
system outages and poor performance are all
incestuously related to Microsoft?s marketing every
conceivable option to keep you from going elsewhere
? for the tiniest thing.

In Oliver Stone?s film Wall Street - Gordon Gekko?s
claim that ?Greed is good, greed clarifies? ? should
be restated as ?Greed is bad, greed complicates and
stupefies?.

There?s striking similarities here to when the
Japanese decided to offer only limited ?feature
packages? on their cars ? just as Detroit found they
just couldn?t build quality cars with endless
combinations of options.

No two cars went off the assembly line the same way
? and your mechanic just couldn?t keep them
running.

Now even Microsoft is suffering under this bloated
house-of-cards. The latest Windows service-pack
advertised download time is more than 5 hours!

Imagine if you will ? millions of Microsoft
customers at home across the world ? in every
continent ? every country ? every time zone ? each
spending 5 hours downloading bloat-ware patches.

It staggers the mind. The strain on the
communications lines alone must have been enormous.

It?s like teaching an elephant to tap-dance ? but
with Billy Boy & The Bloatware Factory finally
getting the message - hopefully - a cleaner Windows
7 will evolve. We?ll see.

Today?s generation is rediscovering simplicity.

That's why Google is attracting joyful adherents
with cleaner, faster and more sensible products ?
like Chrome - with millions more enjoying Macs.

Microsoft hasn't learned from history - because it
was too busy trying to write it.

Personally - as an IT manager - I'd love to dump
every Microsoft product from my datacenter and
start-over with something simpler and cleaner. But
that won?t happen in my lifetime.

Maybe someday Google, or someone else, will get us
there.

Hell ? if they?re smart - it might even be
Microsoft.

Rob
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zzzzz.....
code_Warrior 22nd Dec 2008
The ******** you write is not only untrue but boring too.
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Wow Brillant that truely made my day
Quebec-french 22nd Dec 2008
thx you so much for your opinion ...\
wow straight in the face of MS .


thx you
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Did you make this up as you went along?
GuidingLight 22nd Dec 2008
Or did you put some thought into it?

Either way it makes little sense, and is highly inaccurate.
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Sounds some one from open source
jk_10 22nd Dec 2008
the microsoft hate is spreaded over the internet by those self labelled smart people. they are lack of responsibility to the anyone and they are lack of respect to software industry. Yes, msft is bad, because they are too good.

I found this post disgusting!
0 Votes
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Makes a lot of sense to me...
jack@... 22nd Dec 2008
Thanks for posting. For those who claim to have found
"inaccuracies", please be more specific.
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Better as Google/Apple/Microsoft
linuser 22nd Dec 2008
I would like to see Apple acquire Yahoo. This would make for a more balanced and competitive Google/Apple/Microsoft triumvirate.

It would benefit Apple because:
- they would gain good web assets (Flickr, Yahoo Mail/News/Finance/Music/Video, ...), to integrate with their current Mac/iPhone web services.
- they would get access to the hundreds of millions of current Yahoo users, to promote Apple products.
- it would diversify their revenue stream (adding search, advertising, ...).

It would benefit Yahoo because:
- they would gain the disciplined and visionary leadership they need.
- the Yahoo/Apple corporate cultures would mesh more easily than the Yahoo/Microsoft cultures.
- Yahoo shareholders would receive Apple shares, which have a better upside potential than Microsoft shares (especially after a merger like this).
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I pretty much agree
kcredden2 Updated - 22nd Dec 2008
I've seen MS as GM for the better part of 2 years myself. It's like GM. Everything is cookie-cutter, and a copy of everything else. No innovation at all and after the Vista (and now Win7 is toated as 'Vista, improve') debacle, you can just see the paint peeling.



Google I'm seeing less as Ford but yes I can see the parallels. I remember they buying out Greenborder. Well...where is it? Where's the new and improved? It's desperatly needed in the Windows world.



Yep, give them time and a gun. They'll blow their foot off.



- Kc
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Erroneous auto history
Anton Philidor 22nd Dec 2008
Mr. Dignan wrote incorrectly that, "Buick, Oldsmobile and Chevrolet were the high tech startups of the 1940s. They were gobbled up to become GM."

Taking Chevrolet as an example, here's GM's recounting of its history:

In 1911, Chevrolet Motor Company of Michigan is incorporated in November of 1911 by Louis Chevrolet, William Little and Edwin Cambell, William Durant's son-in-law. Headquarters are in Detroit.

On September 13, 1915, Durant incorporates Chevrolet Motor Co. of Delaware. The new corporation includes the original Chevrolet Motor Company and becomes a holding company for auto companies Durant had put together after losing control of GM.

In 1916, Durant announces that Chevrolet owns 54.5 percent of GM's outstanding shares and takes over the GM presidency from Charles W. Nash, who had been GM president from 1912 to 1916.

In 1918, General Motors buys the operating assets of Chevrolet Motor Company in May.
0 Votes
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Staff
you have a point
Larry Dignan 22nd Dec 2008
What I meant to write is that the auto industry was the Silicon Valley or high tech industry. Amended article with strikethrough to show the change.

Best,

Larry
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Misunderstanding Consolidation
Anton Philidor 22nd Dec 2008
The barrier to entry into the internet market is a huge amount of cash. Very few companies can grow large enough quickly enough to become part of the industry rather than an acquisition target. Of course.

Among the players with money, there's either enough demand to support all of them or there is not. If there is not, then one or a few will outlast all the others.

Mr. Dignan sees this. He looks at Yahoo! being friends with some other company and AOL being sold off, but then doesn't recognize what he's observing.

The internet advertising market will be reduced to Google and Microsoft, much as automobile closures, mergers, and buyouts left GM and Ford covering 75%+ of the market.

Then, Google gains money only from advertising and has been unprofitably investing in products other than search. Microsoft has an increasing number of highly profitable products. Whenever the advertising business declines substantially, which company is more vulnerable?

In short, Mr. Dignan is predicting Microsoft's eventual ownership of the market and doesn't notice.

Here are his paraphrase and a quote from Mr. Lindsay:

Dignan:

Microsoft and Google are similar stories. Any company that may be a threat someday is gobbled up. In the last two years, Microsoft has made an acquisition every three weeks, according to a Wikipedia tally. Google has made an acquisition every five weeks over the last two years. And why are all of these acquisitions happening? Microsoft, Google and Yahoo all have too much dough that theoretically should be returned to shareholders.

Lindsay:

While we would be among the first to agree with the general principles of Chandler???s ???Coming of Managerial Capitalism??? that consolidation is the inevitable corollary of increasing efficiency in almost all industries, we think the maturation of the internet sector is being accelerated by the large players with big cash piles. Quite simply the internet sector is getting old before its time because several large players are buying up just about anything that looks interesting and the venture capital sector is much less active.

[End quotes]

The comparison with the autos breaks down because there is no Japan, but only one market. No company can gain the substantial pile of cash necessary for the game without competing ddirectly and immediately with companies which already have those big piles of cash.

The internet advertising business, the one uniquely internet revenue source with significant money involved, can support few players. And because it's cyclical, those players are better off with other sources of income.

Now if Microsoft could only gather enough of those Google content managers to make MSN more popular...
(I still think Microsoft will sell off a profitable MSN to a media company. Too different from the company's main line of business. The buyer will have a large amount of cash, so the principle doesn't change.)



There's a sentimental attachment to "innovation". As the drug companies have shown, purchased innovations are strategic resources to large companies. Just more of the fuel needed.
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Fundamental difference
Roque Mocan 22nd Dec 2008
Regarding Yahoo incorporating Flickr, Zimbra, etc. and GM incorporating Pontiac, Chevrolet, etc. there is a fundamental differnece: GM based Pontiacs, Chevrolets, Cadillacs on the same platform, making them indistinguishable between them. Yahoo (and Google and MS) is incorporating different functionality (photos, social, video) to have a more rounded offering. I am NOT stating that this is bad or good, just that what the software industry is doing has some differences to what the auto industry did.
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Autos on the same "platform" are comparatively recent...
Anton Philidor Updated - 22nd Dec 2008
... and were at least initially a sales disincentive because Cadillac buyers didn't want a Chevy in disguise.

And the photos, social, video functionality is common to all competitors like, say, air conditioning. It's hard to see how that's a way to distinguish among them.
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Much worse
LittleGuy 22nd Dec 2008
At least when you take your car in for service they don't remove the radio because they want you to use their new music player and they don't support a radio anymore.

Download an upgrade and you have to wonder what it does, what they have taken away or what does not work with your current software anymore.
Bring on the Electric car already! ; )
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and let the chips fall where they may......
GM, Ford and Chrysler got into today's situations because of Japanese car makers. It is possible that both Indian and Chinese companies can do the same in 10-15 years.
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But can they build a tank?
bmgoodman 23rd Dec 2008
There might be similarities, but can Google, Microsoft, or Yahoo build a tank or an airplane during times of war?
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Larry,

Learn some history. No wonder there's so much misinformation and bovine excrement about the domestic auto industry. GM didn't gobble up those brands in the 1940s. Wm C Durant started GM with Buick. He bought Oldsmobile in 1908. Then, when forced out of GM by his bankers over debt acquired during his buying spree, he joined with the Chevrolet brothers to start Chevy. The success of Chevrolet (and the help of the DuPont family) allowed him to reacquire control of GM after which he merged Chevrolet into GM in 1917.

The argument that GM's spending on those brands in the 1940s prevented innovation is absurd. The 1950s and 1960s were periods of great innovation for GM. Small block Chevy OHV V8, turbos, disk brakes, fuel injection, independent rear suspension, etc. etc.

Life didn't start when Jobs and Woz were working in a garage.

Ronnie Schreiber
www.motorobilia.com
DVD To iPhone Converter is also known as an affiliated editor. There are trim function to get only one part of the video, crop function to alter video dimension.

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