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Google, Oracle Android settlement talks heat up Ellison, Page to duke it out

Summary: Oh what joy it would be to listen as Larry Ellison and Larry Page duke it out as Oracle and Google wrestle over an Android settlement.

Larry Dignan

By for Between the Lines |

Google and Oracle will hold a settlement conference Sept. 19 and that talks should be interesting given that the two companies' lead Larrys---Page and Ellison, respectively---are forced to attend.

Oh what joy it would be to sit in on those talks.

Page and Ellison on Friday were ordered to appear for settlement talks as the U.S. District Court of Northern California really doesn't want to see a trial over Android.

Last week, both parties bought into settlement talks, but Google wanted to send mobile chief Andy Rubin. Oracle was going to send its president Safra Catz. That line-up didn't quite work given Rubin's standing in the Google pecking order and authority to seal a settlement so a judge ordered the companies to send their CEOs.

The court said Ellison and Page need to show up to settlement talks and others can attend. Clearly though Ellison and Page are the main attractions. The settlement talks pit a wily Silicon veteran---Ellison---against Page, a relative newcomer to the CEO ranks.

A settlement looks likely, but there is a wide gap to bridge. Oracle will want a big cut of future device sales and Google will obviously disagree. In any case, Google bet that Java would always be owned by Sun, which didn't really care much about monetizing its intellectual property. Google's bet went horribly wrong when Oracle bought Sun.

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Topics: Oracle, Enterprise Software, Google, Legal

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33 comments
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  • Oracle has no Copyright Claim. Only Patent Claims

    It will be tough for Oracle to prove Patent claims in the courtroom given Google has not copied 'with impunity' their Java ME VM source code.

    The only code, about 12 pages, represents setup API declarations to Java Object Class definitions, and function prototypes--these are the APIs and the implementation details for Dalvik were 'clean room' written against those Class method and other abstract virtual methods.

    That puts Google in the position of waging a countersuit by lobbing a Patent bombshell at Oracle, which will be a certainty if Oracle doesn't settle out of court.

    A generous cross-licensing arrangement is most likely to occur but Oracle cannot wage frivolous lawsuits without consequence.
    Dietrich T. Schmitz *Your
    Reply Vote

    • RE: Google, Oracle Android settlement talks heat up Ellison, Page to duke it out

      @Dietrich T. Schmitz * Your Linux Advocate
      What happened to your "stake", also what happened to the references you provide to "Groklaw"?
      Ram U
      Reply Vote

      • Do you have a point?

        @Rama.NET
        Give me a decent question and I am happy to answer.
        I am interested in your point of view as much as any other.
        Let me know!
        Dietrich T. Schmitz *Your
        Reply Vote

      • RE: Google, Oracle Android settlement talks heat up Ellison, Page to duke it out

        @DTS
        Ok, I was trying to pull your tagline. Leaving it aside, is there any proof stating that Dalvik is a clean room design and implementation? AFAIK, clean room design is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design, and I think I missed the information in this regards to Dalvik VM.
        Ram U
        Reply Vote

      • Re: ... s there any proof stating that Dalvik is a clean room design and im

        @Rama.NET Doesn???t need to be, since Dalvik is a completely new design and implementation that bears no resemblance to Sun/Oracle JVM at all.

        Go on, have a look at the source code for yourself and compare them.
        ldo17
        Reply Vote

    • Yet Google and patent lawyers believe something different

      @Dietrich T. Schmitz * Your Linux Advocate

      You have shown us that you are obviously not patent literate, yet you continue to claim that Google holds the "upper hand" even though those more knowledgable then you in reference to this consider otherwise.

      I am curious, is it fear that forces you to post that which you post, or some other emotion?
      :|
      Tim Cook
      Reply Vote

    • RE: Google, Oracle Android settlement talks heat up Ellison, Page to duke it out

      @Dietrich T. Schmitz * Your Linux Advocate <br><br>It doesn't matter how wide spread the copying only that they did it and if patent protection on those 12 pages was only given for desktop implementations then its 2 fold (I thought we'd have found this out at trial). Sun GPL'd parts in a terribly unclean way maybe out of fear that other companies (IBM) JVMs would replace them.<br><br>Also davlik isn't 'clean room' as former Java architects have worked on it which invalidated 'clean room' as soon as they spent 1 minute on the project<br><br>Settlement likely but its going to cost google, they really should have bought Sun when they had the chance
      the.nameless.drifter
      Reply Vote

  • oracle has to drop the lawsuit

    before the community rises and Oracle ends up like $co.
    Eli$$on is no match for Page's wit so it's better for Oracle so save itself from embarrassment once more.
    The Linux Geek
    Reply Vote

    • RE: Google, Oracle Android settlement talks heat up Ellison, Page to duke it out

      @The Linux Geek Page is a lightweight punk in the tech world.
      jhammackHTH
      Reply Vote

  • RE: Google, Oracle Android settlement talks heat up Ellison, Page to duke it out

    Oracle sucks and everything they touch turns to crap.
    timspublic1@...
    Reply Vote

  • RE: Google, Oracle Android settlement talks heat up Ellison, Page to duke it out

    Oh yeah, I'm sure Oracle is trembling in fear......You know what maybe Page's is so intelligent he will offer 3.14159265 billions in settlement. Yeah that's it.
    johnsuarez10
    Reply Vote

    • RE: Google, Oracle Android settlement talks heat up Ellison, Page to duke it out

      @johnsuarez10
      :D
      Ram U
      Reply Vote

      • RE: Google, Oracle Android settlement talks heat up Ellison, Page to duke it out

        @Rama.NET
        Apparently johnsuarez10's comment was funny.....
        anono
        Reply Vote

    • RE: Google, Oracle Android settlement talks heat up Ellison, Page to duke it out

      @johnsuarez10
      Eli$$on wont get more than $2.71828, enough to buy an ice cream or popcorn.
      The Linux Geek
      Reply Vote

      • Or he could get 6.02x10^23

        @The Linux Geek
        Bruizer
        Reply Vote

      • Or Oracle could get 6.02X10^23 pico pennies

        @The Linux Geek

        We still have no clue how this will turn out. There is strong evidence against Google for non-clean room techniques and possible willful patent issues. Google has some areas where there may be possible prior art.
        Bruizer
        Reply Vote

  • RE: Google, Oracle Android settlement talks heat up Ellison, Page to duke it out

    The 'settlement' will be difficult for google to swallow... but they should have thought about it before copying somebody's cope.
    owlnet
    Reply Vote

    • Re: ... before copying somebody's cope.

      @owlnet But that code was open-sourced, which means that we all have permission to copy it. Oracle cannot rescind that permission, even if it wants to.
      ldo17
      Reply Vote

      • RE: Google, Oracle Android settlement talks heat up Ellison, Page to duke it out

        @ldo17

        No it wasn't it, only part of it was open sourced and only for the desktop market. Both Enterprise and mobile are still closed.
        the.nameless.drifter
        Reply Vote

      • RE: Google, Oracle Android settlement talks heat up Ellison, Page to duke it out

        @the.nameless.drifter neither J2EE nor J2ME are relevant to this discussion; only the open-source J2SE code (and the open-source class libraries from Apache's Project Harmony). Google had already decided that the J2ME JVM was overpriced and insufficient for the Android security model; that's why they created Dalvik from scratch.
        ldo17
        Reply Vote
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