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Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

Google unthreads Gmail messages, sticks by search over sort

By | September 29, 2010, 9:01am PDT

Summary: Google has listened to users who say they don’t care for threaded conversations and has added a feature that allows users to go back to a traditional inbox.

One of the things I like most about Gmail is the threaded conversations. For me, it helps keep the inbox organized in a way that helps keep the back-and-forth correspondence of an email exchange in an easy-to-follow format.

But many of you feel otherwise and have said, repeatedly, that you dislike the threads. I hear you loud and clear - and apparently, so does Google.

Today, the company is announcing that users will now be able to turn off the threaded conversations and switch their inboxes to the more traditional style - something that’s sure to be welcome to many. From a blog post announcing the new feature:

Conversation view is perhaps Gmail’s most hotly debated feature.  Threading enthusiasts say they spend less mental energy drawing connections between related messages and that their inboxes are much less cluttered.  On the other hand, email traditionalists like many former Outlook users think conversation just complicates something that has worked for years.

In making this change, Google has finally admitted that, despite its best efforts to deliver what it considered to be a better email experience, some users aren’t willing to give up what’s familiar to them. And yet, the company hasn’t quite given up hope yet on one feature - search.

One of the things that kept Google from putting in a bid to convert the state of California’s e-mail system to Google Apps was the inability for Gmail to “sort” messages. Google still considers searching for messages, instead of sorting them, to be superior and isn’t budging on that feature.

Personally, I find search to be a better and faster way to find messages, but I’ve also mastered some of the common search operators, such as “from:joe,” “subject: meeting,” and “has: attachment.”

More often than not, those search terms deliver the results I’m looking for. Still, the users have been very clear about wanting to sort messages. Even though I applaud Google for giving users the option of displaying messages in threaded or unthreaded views, I have to ding the company for not going far enough.

If they really want to convince both consumers and businesses to “Go Google,” they’re going to have to offer users the features they want - not the features the company wants them to want.

Related coverage: Forrester: Email may be here to stay but it definitely needs an overhaul

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Sam has been a technology and business blogger for more than 18 years.

Disclosure

Sam Diaz

Sam Diaz has nothing to disclose.

Biography

Sam Diaz

Sam has been a technology and business blogger, reporter and editor at ZDNet, the Washington Post, San Jose Mercury News and Fresno Bee for more than 18 years. He's a member of the National Association of Hispanic Journalists and a graduate of California State University, Fresno.

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RE: Google unthreads Gmail messages, sticks by search over sort
jackson1984-24316069205748857739440257893812 10th Oct
Awing submit. I've help on for myself specifically how flexile WP is, like a internet hosting political product for your universe extensive website . you really have very nearly all kinds of things you include to release a universe mulberry purses extensive website at your fingertips, by WordPress. many thanks.
Sorting emails will come too...As Geoffrey Moore says if you got to cross the chasm and sell you got to deliver to the pragmatists... If not then you ought to be the owner of the ecosystem itself like M$ is
@pranavmdesai@... Great informative post thanks for sharing.....
Coursework
Research Paper Writing
Book Report Writing
is that it includes items in the recycle bin on the list. I deleted them for a reason, I don't want to see them again.
To: Michael Kelly
Simple! Empty your Trash! (oh, pardon me, Windoze's "recycle-that-isn't-recycled" ... I use Mac OS, where "Trash" is erased when emptied). Deleting just moves messages to the Trash, you have to open that area and either selectively or comprehensively check-mark the messages and again hit "Delete" ... Gmail sends incoming messages to the "Spam" area, where they can be directly deleted, or to the "Trash" if it's less sure you don't want it based on past deletions (you can directly delete here, also), or to the "Inbox" (where deletion is a two-step process, send it to Trash by deleting it once, and then go to Trash to delete it forever).
@Namorado_TX

Cute answer, but considering it takes about 10 taps to do so on an Android that isn't the best option. And if I'm going to be emptying my recycle bin that often, why even have one? There is a reason for the recycle bin. Sometimes people make a mistake and delete something they should not have. So I do want a recycle bin, but that does not mean I want to be reminded I have deleted messages every time I get a new e-mail.
@Namorado_TX

Or like me you can just set the recycle bin to not store and just delete. I never have anything in my recycle bin. What's better is I don't have to throw a disk in the trash to eject a CD. Got to wonder what dolt came up with that. Go back to your over priced playschool kids Apple and gloat.
@audiodiblo
DeafDebble,

. . . You've strayed off-subject, but your flame-bait dissing Apple betrays your ignorance of recent Apple quality ... since Unix-based Mac OS X began, the mouse-user preference of dragging a CD to the desktop icon of the Trash in order to eject it (a convenience, not a byproduct of a "dolt") has no longer been available. And as always, a keyboard-initiated ejection has been available, besides the always-available menu-selection or a pop-up blurb with an ejection-arrow. "Ten taps" to delete from Gmail on mobile Android? I don't yet have a mobile device, but I bet it's less effort on Apple's industry-leading retina-display iOS 4.1!

. . . Overpriced? After all the "extras" you have to pay for with Windoze PCs and software that comes standard on the Mac, plus all the Windows downtime and fix, repair, upgrade daily, plug-'n'-play user-friendly Apple products are a bargain! Like Gmail, they give you options to be creative, which is why a high proportion of musicians, artists, designers, and other productive people prefer them, it gives them freedom without all the "ten taps" delays.
Nearly all of the things you articulate happens to be supprisingly accurate and that makes me ponder the reason why I hadn't looked at this with this light previously. This particular article truly did switch the light on for me as far as this specific topic goes. But there is actually just one position I am not necessarily too comfortable with and while I attempt to reconcile that with the actual main idea of the position, let me observe what all the rest of the visitors have to say.Nicely done. millenium scholarship
0 Votes
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Use Hotmail
Mwendo 29th Sep 2010
If you want unthreaded messages then use Hotmail or Yahoo. That's one of the defining features of Gmail.
@Mwendo
Switch to yahoo or hotmail and put up with all the spam they are prone to have? Not me! I shall stick with the best: Gmail of course.
@rm6565

I have hotmail/livemail and don't have spam issues... I don't even get anything in my spam/junk folder. Maybe you have poor browsing habits?
@rm6565

Who needs spam when you have Google spying on you all the time?
And....NO FOLDERS STILL...
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Contributr
@cyberslammer Labels: Just like folders but with more flexibility.
0 Votes
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And yet not folders
x I'm tc 29th Sep 2010
@sldiaz

And some people want folders. So provide folders.
@sldiaz Labels are great but they do NOT unclutter the inbox indeed they make it more busy. Unless you label and archive at the same time ... Folders have their place, just not in GMail (yet) it seems.
but, it just gives you a lot more flexibility.
0 Votes
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You can make Labels into Folders with...
Jared Neale 29th Sep 2010
hierarchy through Labs. It has been there for a while now.
@cyberslammer
Google uses labels which is almost the same as folders.
@rm6565

Almost still isn't the same. People are used to folders so give them folders. Labels I don't see how you have more flexibility regarding DonnieBoy's post. I can archive, folder sort or label with Windows... Why limit myself to labels only? I can also search my emails which seems to be the only real option for Gmail. They have a ways to go but getting there. Maybe one day they will even stop reading your emails!
"If they really want to convince both consumers and businesses to ?Go Google,? they?re going to have to offer users the features they want - not the features the company wants them to want."

Yeah! Who do they think they are, Apple? happy
@jrf2027@...

ROFLCOPTER!

Agreed!
It takes a little getting used to when you first move to gmail, but I truly prefer Gmail's approach (both threads and tagging), I use outlook at work, but I use gmail for my personal... and between the two I strongly prefer Gmail. Diffferent strokes I suppose.
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@wzrobin

Correct! Almost sounds like what a catholic priest would say...
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RE: Google unthreads Gmail messages, sticks by search over sort
ItsTheBottomLine Updated - 29th Sep 2010
This "...company wants them to want." is a very accurate statement in a lot of their areas. They are growing up and getting better, each time we deal with them it's getting better, but it's like pulling teeth. If the IT director was not so hot on them we probably would have booted them - they have been a pain in the rump to deal with, however, as I said they are getting better.
Yes, if the customer wants to call them "folders" instead of "labels", wants to call it "sort by date" instead of "search by date" -- in other words, if the customer wants to waste time and lose messages in the clutter -- who is Google to try to tell them to do it another way?

Seriously, the customer is right. Give them what they want. Just remember, I'm a customer too. I like labels. But my customers freak out when I tell them there are no folders. Let me give them folders if they don't want to learn a more efficient way to do it.
@pob63rec
To help reduce clutter Gmail has recently introduced "priority inbox". Give it a try.
@pob63rec Screw luddites.
No, you don't. Those who want to go back to a less-efficient approach should stick with Yahoo or Hotmail.

Gmail's labels and search make for a far more efficient approach - why choose Gmail if not for the features it offers?
@NontechieTalk

I don't choose Gmail as it is limited as well I enjoy my privacy. Labels don't help much.
0 Votes
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Sort by Mail size
eCubeH 29th Sep 2010
Anyone know how to sort by mail size (incl. attachments)?
0 Votes
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I want banner ads
antmonni 30th Sep 2010
Cause Hotmail got me used to them. Banner ads in Flash please.
Threaded is my preferred viewing; I'm amazed it's not universal, as I am constantly berating people for sending back to me an entire long e-mail as an automatically "quoted" text (they never edit!). As long as the "Subject:"-line is unchanged, all replies are added under the original post (or become the "top" post if originals are deleted). Gmail has wonderful features if one bothers to learn them - all kinds of ...
... "markers" such as different-colored stars, or tagging with labels (colored or not), and most recently "Priority" sorting. The latter I didn't care for, but rather than remove it, I just expanded the priority categories' group-counts to include all mail, so I can click "+" or "-" to just turn it into a tag, then if I do want to look just for the priority tagged messages, I can switch to ...
... that view of listings. One can direct Gmail (using menu "Settings") to pre-sort certain messages into certain labels instead of the Inbox, if wanted (just like a "folders" option), but "labels" is better than "folders" because one can put more labels on a message (which may need to be referenced by more than one topic), and so not have to worry about "which folder did I put it in?" ...
0 Votes
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It can be found under any labels it's archived-to! What feature would I like most that nobody has yet? The ability to edit received mail without having to remail it to myself (which creates a new date). == Konets, tovarisch! ==
0 Votes
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Apparent lack of understanding
Dogcatcher 30th Sep 2010
Despite its awesome technical prowess, Google sometimes fails to grasp the truth that there often is no right way to do a task, unless you focus on how the individual works. Search vs. sort, threaded vs. linear, menus vs. ribbons, etc. are common debates that will never have a winner.

If productivity is the goal, then developers need to offer the options that allow different users to work with the greatest ease and speed.

I have some Gmail accounts, but fetch the messages to a dedicated mail reader because I cannot abide Gmail's poor web interface.
0 Votes
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@Namorado_TX:
I hope nobody ever implements the ability to edit received mail. If it isn't illegal, it should be.

Can you imagine what, say, a divorce attorney could do with that feature? Or a vengeful ex-spouse?

Besides all that, those are MY words, and while the message itself, like postal mail, becomes yours once delivered, that fact gives you no rights whatsoever toward changing the content.
I deleted an email message that was part of a thread and to my dismay the entire thread was deleted.
I deleted an email message that was part of a thread and to my dismay the entire thread was deleted.
If they really want to convince both consumers and businesses to ?Go Google,? they're going have to stop spying on them. Only suckers would use Google.
0 Votes
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RE: Google unthreads Gmail messages, sticks by search over sort
jackson1984-24316069205748857739440257893812 10th Oct
Awing submit. I've help on for myself specifically how flexile WP is, like a internet hosting political product for your universe extensive website . you really have very nearly all kinds of things you include to release a universe mulberry purses extensive website at your fingertips, by WordPress. many thanks.

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