Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

Google vs. Microsoft over search results: Top takeaway is Bing matters

By | February 2, 2011, 2:44am PST

Anyone watching Google and Microsoft spar over search results has to be torn between being shocked and amused. Google accuses Microsoft of stealing its search results for Bing. Microsoft says it doesn’t steal Google results. A lot of discussion ensues—some of it hysterical. My bottom line: Bing matters.

There’s no way Google would give a rat’s ass how its public results were being used if it wasn’t worried about Bing. Now the Google vs. Microsoft spat is very public, slightly entertaining and makes for great headlines. My biggest issue with this whole battle is that it’s a bit fuzzy where the inspiration started and where the theft began. But Google’s accusations and Microsoft’s denials and explanations are certainly notable. After all, this is the tech industry, a place where everyone builds on the ideas of someone else (you could say copies).

  • Google’s business model came from Overture.
  • Google’s Android army is arguably a rip off and attempted enhancement of Apple’s iPhone.
  • Of course, Oracle would say Android is a Java rip-off.
  • Microsoft’s Windows franchise was born as an answer (imitation) to Apple’s Mac to some. The reality is both Microsoft and Apple ripped off Xerox’s PARC. OK, “ripped off” is too strong. Both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs went to PARC and got inspired to copy a UI.
  • Google has a bevy of social experiments that look like Facebook and Twitter envy to me.
  • Isn’t Google Docs inspired by well, Office?
  • Microsoft’s Xbox is the result of Sony PlayStation envy.
  • Zune is an iPod wannabe.
  • Microsoft’s Office got its start by emulating the likes of WordPerfect and Lotus Notes and then squashing them.
  • Internet Explorer was an answer to Netscape’s Navigator.

I could go on for at least another 10 bullet points. Funny how that works eh? But that’s the tech industry. Of course, Bing is going to emulate Google results. Google is the big dog. Your results have to be at least as good as Google’s.

Google’s ‘Bing Sting’ evidence (screenshots)

Now Google’s case is notable. Bing has matched misspelled terms. Is this theater from Google or scientific evidence? Who knows? We’re in the middle of a Google said, Microsoft said pissing match. And honestly, I don’t have much of an informed opinion to say who’s right.  My guess is that this is a country of Microsoft, Google and Apple states—and little to no agreement. Your take will follow your bias and preference for each vendor.

I do know the following (as judged by the actions of both Google and Microsoft):

  • First, both Google and Microsoft will protect their respective turf. We have two juggernauts that arguably are more comfortable playing defense and protecting cash cows.
  • Second, it’s a bit fuzzy what this “protect this house” approach means for innovation if anything.
  • And finally. Microsoft’s Bing matters. Bing launches a new interface. Google mimics the approach with its results—at least until everyone screams Bing envy It took a while, but Bing has gotten under Google’s skin—at least enough to warrant a roundhouse punch.

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Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic.

Disclosure

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan has nothing to disclose. He doesn’t hold investments in the technology companies he covers.

Biography

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic. He was most recently Executive Editor of News and Blogs at ZDNet. Prior to that he was executive news editor at eWeek and news editor at Baseline. He also served as the East Coast news editor and finance editor at CNET News.com. Larry has covered the technology and financial services industry since 1995, publishing articles in WallStreetWeek.com, Inter@ctive Week, The New York Times, and Financial Planning magazine. He's a graduate of the Columbia School of Journalism and the University of Delaware.

For daily updates, follow Larry on Twitter.

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Your wrong, Loverock Davidson uses Bing and he's in his right mind
SoYouSaid 10th Feb 2011
or that is at least what Bing said ...... but on the other hand Google said he was a trol ......... I think Google was 100% correct in this case ..... go Google happy
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Wrong
wmundy Updated - 2nd Feb 2011
There's a difference in imitation and outright plagiarism. This is using someone else's work product with no creativity ingredient at all. Someone put it quite nicely. BING = Bing Is Now Google. So here you go. Build your own search engine just like Bing. Just enter a search term. http://nerd.bz/i1CQiu
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Bing Matters.. only to MS
Uralbas 2nd Feb 2011
and its fans. No one else in their right mind would use Bing.
@Uralbas Apparently Google disagrees with you.
alot of people here, because the same people just post anything they can about MS, as long as it's highly critical and always negative.

You would think that you'd be quite happy with your choice of OS, Search company, tablets; even insulting the people here who use MS products is enough to warrent a negative response from you and your friends.

Obviously it matters a great deal to you what we use and what we think, so more power to us!
@Uralbas

Hmmm. So because I use Bing, I'm insane? I'm happy with Bing and especially happy with it on my WP7 phone.

So when you choose between software developed by an advertising company and a software development company, you choose advertising - who's not in their right mind again?
or that is at least what Bing said ...... but on the other hand Google said he was a trol ......... I think Google was 100% correct in this case ..... go Google happy
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Not a big deal
interlocutor 2nd Feb 2011
This is analogous to Best Buy having an employee stand outside Fry's Electronics to find out what the most popular purchases are and then making sure Best Buy has the same items prominently displayed on their shelves.

Is that illegal? I don't think so. Microsoft didn't actually copy Google's search results, they only looked at which of Google's search results the user clicked on. Google themselves monitor what users are clicking on in their search results, for optimization purposes.

Google has a dominant market share. If Microsoft only looked at their own clickstream that wouldn't be enough data. So they have to look at Google's clickstream data too. Google would do the same if Bing was the dominant search engine.
@interlocutor
What? No it's not. It would be analogous to you writing a book an me copying it word for word and then selling it myself.
@interlocutor It's questionable because we're talking about implied consent of the user to have their click stream recorded while searching on a product separate from their own. When you use IE, do you generally expect that your click stream will be used for analytics? When you go to Google, should you expect that analytical data from that visit will go to microsoft simply because you used their browser? No.
@interlocutor:

Well, I, for one, have not seen any truth that Bing copies Google search results. With some topics I actually have to switch my search engine to Google to get the results I'm looking for to come up. In Bing they will be there but several pages away, and I don't want to flip the web pages to get the one I'm looking for.

Besides, who owns search data anyway?? As long as Bing has not copied Google's search code, Bing has the right to offer the same results. There are more ways than one way to create the same information or products in this world. Anyone doubt that then, look at the auto, electronics, or computer industries - we have essentially the same products coming from many different companies.

So, this Google vs Bing search result argument is simply ridiculous.
@slackgawd
Wow - talk about Fan Boy...
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The evidence is indisputable
daengbo 2nd Feb 2011
@mustang_z
"Well, I, for one, have not seen any truth that Bing copies Google search results."
You obviously haven't even looked at the "sting operation" linked above. The evidence is akin to leaving your fingerprints on the murder weapon, having your DNA under the victim's fingernails, and being caught on CC video. Google created several nonsense, non-word queries, manually linked those to pages that had nothing to do with the queries, then saw the same results pop up on Bing for *every result*. There's no way for that to happen unless Bing is scraping Google for its top link.

This may or may not be illegal, but it's certainly extremely embarrassing for MS, especially after they have denied the practice.
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You're missing the BIG ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM, when you search on Google with that toolbar, it is spying on you and sending the data to Microsoft.

The copying is incidental to the SPYING ON USERS OF ITS TOOLBAR!

That's a massive privacy issue.

Then they're stupid enough to get caught, and what you call a denial isn't they CONFIRMED they use other search engines as a quality signal:

"one of many input signals we and other search engines use to help rank sites"

But FFS, those misspelled words and the result they bring up, they were only entered by users into GOOGLE and that result only seen by users of Google.

Tell me, did they go so far are to track HTTPS session? Login? Password? What else does that toolbar send to Microsoft?

What it tells me, is that they are at best a poor copy. Like a fake Chinese iPod knockoff, it means that their results are always an out of date version of Googles results.
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Turnabout is fair play
Joe_Raby 2nd Feb 2011
@guihombre

Google has been spying on customers with every "service" it offers since its inception. The only entity Google is servicing is itself.

Also, Bing toolbar's data collection is optional, while Google's is not.
@Joe_Raby
No it's not. If it was Bling would no longer exist. (Unless they stole their data from someone else. Hmmmm.)
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Try again
Joe_Raby 2nd Feb 2011
@Joe_Raby

When you install, it even prompts you to turn on or off usage data collection, as does all Microsoft software. Google's has no such option at all. If you turn it off, you can even track the toolbar and no information is sent to Microsoft, except for what you type into the Bing search section of it, or when you click on a service icon, both of which are required for obvious reasons: to call up the respective webpage. They don't collect usage analytics on your usage patterns of the product though, unless you specify that you want to give them that data.
@slackgawd
Wow you actually believe that...good luck with that.
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Right, guihombre
John Zern 2nd Feb 2011
which is why people are looking elsewhere to sites like Bing, because Google is just "so much more up to date."

You have to think these things through. Google is becoming the cheap knockoff here. Seems they're the ones copying MS, Apple, ect.
When I copied his test answers, I was just being inspired. Besides, he originally got the answers from the textbook, so everybody does it. I really seem to have gotten under your skin! How entertaining.
@slackgawd He gave his test paper and encouraged to use. Bing did not search for the word and copied those search results. It's google who fed the data to bing feedback listeners.
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of course it matters
sportmac Updated - 2nd Feb 2011
when a company that is "competing" but has absolutely no worries when it comes to a bottom line you have to worry. if they don't ever ever ever have to worry about a stupid little thing like profits then the company that does should worry.

no way bing (aka msn search, live search, etc) should exist. it's not competition when the desk is stacked.
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Not impressed with the replies
matricellc 2nd Feb 2011
First, this isn't a case of plagiarism, unless someone can prove that M$ is copying original content without properly attributing or claiming it as their own. Google just serves up loads of other content created by others, which isn't plagiarism either.

Google and every other search engine and most websites track everyone, and Google has been the most successful at tracking (it just isn't the algorithm). The toolbar is small potatoes (personally don't use them) by comparison. Use Google for a week, keep a log of all of your web browser usage, and then take a look at the ads Google serves up.

As far as the toolbar/HTTPS comment, this shows that you don't understand how this works. Passwords, etc. cannot be.

I'm with Larry on this one. I don't have a solid opinion because there aren't enough facts. Google may not see a legal case as of yet, so they take a more expedient path and throw M$ into the court of public opinion and let the mob decide for themselves. Let's see what the jury decides.
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They're using clickstream analysis
laxmanb Updated - 2nd Feb 2011
... to identify what results actual users choose to be most relevant with certain keywords. So basically, I think the user could have chosen any result with any keyword on any search engine - and Bing would have incorporated it. I think Bing's algorithm is pretty innovative, honestly.
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The one trick pony show is not worth watching. On top of that, Apple is killing copycat Android.

This article gets it. Bing matters because Apple is killing Google by cutting off other revenue streams and Google search is dying. Now Google is desperately trying to smear the competition with lies because they cannot compete on merit.
@iPad-awan
You are so funny. Never let reality stand in the way of being a fan boy I guess.
@iPad-awan That's funny, why is android now the number 1 mobile OS in the world?
@snoop0x7b

Really? Which version in the mess you call Android is number 1?
@iPad-awan

I'm not even sure where to start with this, but I'll think of something after I stop laughing at your post...
I like it the MS is going to keep Google from being a monopoly! BTW each are attacking the others cash cows: MS with Bing and Google with Google Docs, Android, and Chrome. So, if this gets ugly, it is because they are lining up products to attack each other instead of simply making products people want.
Pretty good article, Larry. I'm going to lean more towards Bing not copying anything from Google. Its all in the algorithms. The most popular news will always come up on top no matter what search engine you use. As for the spelling mistakes, well you can hook into any online dictionary that is set up for that or create your own. I simply cannot trust Google anymore, not with these accusations and flat out lies. If they are making these statements about big companies imagine what they are doing to their end users. I will not be part of that Google system.
@Loverock Davidson

You should read my rant on the SEO Watch blog about SEO being a sham industry - not just because of the majority of SEO's being thieves, but also because Google makes it irrelevent with their engineers hand-picking their favourite sites to appear on top. It's an industry full of criminals, and Google is the kingpin.
@Joe_Raby

Couldn't have said it better. I equate the SEO business like those who sell you the undercoating on your car, which is already there whether you wanted it or not. There is no such thing as Search Enginge Optimization unless you have the source code of the algorightms!
@Loverock Davidson You do realize Google set a trap with nonsense search terms in order to determine that Microsoft was doing this, right? They literally manually ranked things like "asdkla4uertopiaruefopiarufpiofre" that no one would put into Google or Bing in order to see if the same results would show up in Bing... And 1 week later they did. In light of that statement I believe you should recant what you said.
@snoop0x7b

"They literally *manually ranked* things like "asdkla4uertopiaruefopiarufpiofre" that no one would put into Google"

....which is exactly why SEO is a joke.
@snoop0x7b
This actually @Joe. That exactly why Google knowsMicrosoft was stealing. It's called a set up and they got caught red handed
@slackgawd You are a google fanboy/employee... boooooooooooooooo
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Don't forget
rocklandweb 2nd Feb 2011
Facebook was "inspired" by the HarvardConnection. happy
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Pirated copies of Windows
HollywoodDog 2nd Feb 2011
@rocklandweb ... are "inspired" by genuine copies.
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Much hoopla over...
neverhome 2nd Feb 2011
Nothing. Use your search engine of choice. If you get good results, then it's doing it's job. How it gathers the results is not an issue. It's the RESULTS that matter. I don't use either of the ones in question. I use Yahoo. And, Yahoo has probably "borrowed" from other services as well. I don't care. As long as I get good results, why should it matter?
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Yahoo = Bing
dazzlingd 2nd Feb 2011
@neverhome Yahoo - powered by Bing. happy
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You got it right...
fjpoblam 2nd Feb 2011
+1 @neverhome

This stoopid pissing match is a waste of time. The Gorg and M$ should go about their busyness and devote the time and money they're using for name-calling back to product improvement. What crybabies, both of them.
Google calling out Microsoft for spying and copying. That sounds awfully hollow.
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Cry babies obviously scared.
Johnny Vegas 2nd Feb 2011
Of course search engines should look at what people search for and what they choose from the results. They all should. If people search for a term on google and 90% of the time they choose the 6th result, the search engines should learn that that result should move up. It implies that no matter how many other links have bumped the top 5 up the list, people dont care about those, they care about the 6th, and it should become the 1st result. Peoples intent is more important than link network and search engines should prioritize it.
@Johnny Vegas Exactly! happy
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@Johnny Vegas

A lot of Mom & Pop computer users look for "link #6", regardless of what it actually is. Moving it up confuses a huge number of users. And, of course, then if the website changes, and the crawler picks up the new content and displays that in the results, that's a totally new level of confusion for end-users. I have always argued that search engines are there just to collect revenue on random, uninformed clicks more than anything else. Few people actually look at the real hyperlink listed under each page summary. SEO fraudsters know this already, and that's why we see the internet filling up with all of these fake adword pages that are a just a page of reformatted search results.
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Quite entertaining ...
Heenan73 Updated - 2nd Feb 2011
... and absolutely no doubt whose side you are on.

Perhaps you should state your loyalties publicly?
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Rip-Offs and Answers
rashidsaeed 2nd Feb 2011
So, every time Microsoft copies something, its their "Answer to the original thing" and when someone else does it, it's a rip-off. Bing SERP UI is Microsoft's answer to Google's. IE9 UI Microsoft's answer to Google Chrome. Cheating is Microsoft's answer to ...? Themselves!
"shocked and amused"? More like unsurprised and annoyed. There's a huge difference between "looks like" and a straight copy of the actual search result. Instead of originating their own search process MS are hacking Googles and offering it as their own.

The tone of your article suggests this is business as usual and everyone's at it. Yet that isn't the case.

Search is the one area where the number of users and market share are absolutely paramount. Microsoft is obviously desperate to keep users and gain market share.

An objective observer recognises the issue is the reason WHY this happens and has happened. In the case of Microsoft and the latest incarnation of their not very good search facility, it's because Microsoft knows no better.

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