Google Wave: The moral equivalent of sliced bread

Summary: So far, there seems to be a bit of schism here at ZDNet over the utility of Google Wave. Some of us really dig it, the jury is still out for others, and our resident dinosaur, Jason Perlow doesn't get it. I have to call him out on this one.

So far, there seems to be a bit of schism here at ZDNet over the utility of Google Wave. Sam Diaz sees some real usefulness in reducing email clutter and getting at the meat of his inbox. The jury is still out for Dion Hinchcliffe. And our resident dinosaur, Jason Perlow, doesn't get it. He said so himself on a few Waves as we tested the collaboration tools:

Apparently, Jason Perlow doesn't get it

Apparently, Jason Perlow doesn't get it

Jason's big concern? That Wave will be the next incarnation of Gmail:

While I can see where this type of collaboration process may have some merit, I REALLY do not want to see this become part of GMail, because that is the natural evolution of what I am seeing, at least with this technology preview.

Maybe Jason "gets it" more than he lets on. This is precisely where email is headed. As Sam Diaz asked, "Remember when people used to ask you if you had e-mail? Now, it’s just assumed, right?" Just as email clients were a natural evolution of PINE, and Gmail was a natural evolution of various flavors of webmail, so is Wave a natural evolution of Gmail. Increasingly, there is a very thin line indeed between IM, email, collaborative tools, and social media, even in business settings. Wave simply focuses real time collaboration and communication into conversations that can be organized, searched, changed, revised, commented upon, and used.

Where Jason sees a "useless piece of crap", I see something a little different (and happily edited his remarks in a Wave in which we were both participating:

Tomato, To-mah-to?

Tomato, To-mah-to?

Jason calls Wave a "hosting site for disposable, single-purpose based Wikis and mashups" like that's a bad thing. Although I think his characterization is a bit limiting, the idea of creating a searchable, archivable flow of information with my colleagues kicks email conversations (as well-organized as they are in Gmail) in the keister. In fact, Gmail starts to feel a bit primitive when you get used to the immediate feedback and interaction inherent in a Wave (and yet don't lose the strengths of asynchronous communication that email affords).

While almost everything Jason points out in terms of beta quirks are true (although I found the embedded search that allows users to leverage Google Image and Video search within a Wave to be fast and intuitive), a little refinement will go a long ways towards making Wave the groupware model of choice, especially within Google Apps shops. Right now, for example, if I simply need to send someone outside my organization an email, I probably won't start a Wave over it. Integration of some Gmail features would obviously be useful for one-off communications. Similarly, you can't just start a Wave with anyone in the same way you can't use Google Video chat with someone who isn't using Gmail. Being able to host a Wave and invite outside participants would be a killer app.

One other thing to note: that learning curve and lack of intuitiveness to the UI? Most likely irrelevant to the average Millennial. If you grew up when Eudora seemed like a really cool way to access your email, the learning curve might be steep. If you communicate almost exclusively via social media tools and rarely access email, then the idea of a Wave is going to seem fairly natural. Since most of the people we're hiring fall into this Digital Native category, they'll be bringing a shift in expectations of what business communication tools should like with them.

All right. Maybe the idea of slicing bread instead of ripping it apart to scoop up some thick stew like a bunch of heathens tops Google Wave. Maybe. On the other hand, whether ripped or sliced, bread is still a high-carb tasty, multi-purpose consumable. Wave gives me a combination of Google's mail, chat, docs, search, video, and more in a package that I can't get elsewhere. Sure, it still has some growing to do, but Wave represents a completely different direction for cloud-based groupware that just might kill traditional email in ways that Facebook never could.

It's OK, though, Jason. You're not losing email. You're gaining a whole new way to work, share, and create with your colleagues. The dinosaurs had a wee bit of trouble with the whole "adaptation thing." Will you embrace real-time, rich collaboration tools or stick with checking off that "Track changes" box in Word?

Topics: Browser, Cloud, Collaboration, Google

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67 comments
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  • Can I get it without Google?

    Maybe it's just me, but anything that lets me collaborate with colleagues in a business environment should NEVER be run on a server run by a company that includes a clause in the user TOS stating all data created by the user is property of the hosting company to do with as they please.

    There are so many ridiculous ISO 9001 and SSI failures associated with that policy it removes anything requiring a Google account from being appropriate for such environments.
    MariusSilverwolf
    • Yes, you can.

      Wave is a fully open technology, and Google
      expects and encourages others to host their own
      Wave servers.
      bran.e.murray
    • Apparently that is the plan.

      As bran.murray already mentioned it is supposed to be an open standard that can be hosted outside of Google. We'll see...

      I look at it as a collaboration toolset similar to Basecamp. I've spent some time delving into it with some others who have their Wave accounts and it looks like once it's matured it will be an evolution in how we use the internet.

      Maybe business will be the benefactor or perhaps the social web will jump on it but it does impress me that through Wave we can collaborate in realtime using something as commonplace and stateless as an internet browser. And it's not just for text. I haven't played around with multimedia on it yet but I will be testing out video conferencing and realtime game playing as well so see how it handles it.

      I think this (Wave as we know it now) is a step. It will mature as more people get into it and imagine what they can achieve through customizing and fine tuning.
      awasson@...
  • I bet Dawson never used Lotus Notes b4

    Anyone who did, me for example, laughs at how primitive Wave is. It is simply a group ware wannabe in the web world, the same idea Lotus threw out 15 years ago in the desktop environment.
    LBiege
    • Re: ... bet Dawson never used...

      Yeah, perhaps he didn't but I did and it was unwieldy, closed and not particularly realtime.

      If you're being "large corporate" with your mindset then maybe Google wave isn't such a big deal.

      But the world's changed. And now it's not just about comparison with what was largely a corporate tool.
      jeznowhouse
      • But..Remember the World when R5 Came Out

        Lotus Domino finally had TCP/IP down, a stable SMTP MTA, and the ability to bring databases to the web on the fly.

        While it wasn't perfect, Ray Ozzy was light years ahead of his time. But I digress...

        The fact is, most knowledge workers are comfortable with social media and this metaphor, and it is wise to make the crossover sooner than later.

        I honestly haven't spent much time with it, but as a Notes user since R3 (I stuck on through R6.5), I love the analogy.
        dcristof
      • Lotus

        I've used Lotus too. We called it Lotus "Bloats". Even so, I thought it advanced at that time.

        What popped into my head was Ray Ozzie's formerly independent company Groove eponymous product.

        But I don't waste a lot of time worrying about groupware because whenever I do (and I'm a fan) I seem to spend exorbitant amounts of time getting people to make even minimal use basic features, at least in the corporate world.
        zdnet-gregc
    • Never used lotus...

      Even though I never used lotus b4, I understood Wave right away. I don't think it is so difficult to understand, especially if you think how email is being used (and misused).

      Think of it this way. It is a hosted conversation that can be updated in real time. If you took a snapshot of a wave every hour, it would look similar to an email thread. The advantage is that it is you who decides what is or isn't relevant, rather than being cc'd in a massive email thread which holds little interest to you. It is a perfect collaborative tool and a lot more...
      prof123
    • The concept has been around forever...

      I never used Lotus Notes, but I HAVE used
      similar text only chats on BBSs, where you can
      modify any portion of the text. It was really
      basic, but at the time REALLY cool, and the
      general concept was the same. Its rare that NEW
      concepts are created. Everyone says Apple stole
      from Xerox and Microsoft stole from Apple, but
      icons and menus weren't invented by Xerox
      either. (I wonder who did...) The point is,
      just because somebody thought of it before,
      doesn't mean they implemented it well... and if
      they did, that doesn't mean they marketed it
      well, and if they did, that doesn't mean they
      shouldn't have some competition. There are
      limits on patents for a reason. I don't know of
      any free Wave like software available. What HAS
      Google invented anyway? Search? nope. Email?
      nope. Phone OS? nope. Google Earth? nope (see
      keyhole server and terraserver before that) 3d
      design program? nope. Interactive maps? nope.
      Browser? nope. Online document formating? nope.
      I don't think they've INVENTED anything... but
      they HAVE done a lot of things better
      (debatable of course) and they've obviously
      marketed it better.
      shadfurman
  • Well, hopefully Google will really open source all of the critical pieces,

    so that other players can host waves and do their own client.
    But, then comes the problem of compatibility of plugins, so,
    Google really has to open source almost everything.

    Without true interoperability, it will not be as great a tool,
    and, others will create their own things that are similar, but
    incompatible.
    DonnieBoy
    • Google are open sourcing everything

      Google said in its one hour long demonstration video that they are open sourcing everything, from client, to server code to even the protocol they developed to allow seperate wave servers to interact with each other.

      You can, even now, get the protocol description, and everything is hosted on Google code. I think Google knows that unless they allow others to create their own servers and clients that Wave will never take off as a replacement for email. The only reason email is so pervasive is because its an open protocol that everyone can implement.
      garethmcc
  • RE: Google Wave: The moral equivalent of sliced bread

    Not huge amounts to add except to say that, yup, I agree. There's quite a lot to be said for Google wave, already. It opens up realtime conversation for all, really for the first time and it doesn't take long to discover (if you've got a little time on your hands) that you can use it in a variety of different ways. I've already set it up for video chat, displaying some of our rich media work, and embedded other stuff like audioBoo tracks in it. And I'm not very tekky. So that's broadcast things and collaborative things.

    And of course, as always with early adoption, there are bound to be those who diss it. In predictable ways. I suspect that the majority of those haven't really given't it a go yet.
    jeznowhouse
  • RE: Google Wave: The moral equivalent of sliced bread

    I agree with some of the other comments. If Google is going to own this, I want no part of it in my business or even my personal life. I do not trust Google to safely do anything beyond search, and I'm not sure I even really trust that function.
    rgcustomer@...
  • RE: Google Wave: The moral equivalent of sliced bread

    http://www.waveprotocol.org/
    lucid00
  • Including a "New Email" button

    Perhaps Google should create a Wave extension that adds a "New Email" button under the "New Wave" button, in the UI. The "New Email" button would be configured to simply launch the user's traditional email service (Gmail, Yahoo Mail, ...).

    This solution, which keeps Wave & traditional email separate:

    1. allows people to move to Wave AND continue to use their old email account, when needed.
    2. provides for a transition period, for users & their contacts, to migrate to Wave.
    3. keeps the Wave implementation pure (a kludgy integrated solution may just clutter up Wave with traditional spam, etc.).
    4. provides an incentive for consumers & businesses to quickly migrate to Wave, to eliminate the overhead of managing duplicate mail services.
    5. allows the "New Email" button to be removed, when users no longer need traditional email.
    linuser
  • RE: Google Wave: The moral equivalent of sliced bread

    There's something to be said about the wisdom of dinosaurs. Those that have been paying attention have seen more things come, and go, than many of the digital natives.
    rumguy
  • RE: Google Wave: The moral equivalent of sliced bread

    While I, (who started before GUI became available, remembering when Microsoft was not the only Disk Operating System, when Intel, Motorola and AMD competed with apparently lesser brands of processor, and a "large" HDD boasted a little over 300 mbts.) watched hard and software advances in awe, I began to notice a conflict trend.

    The conflict appeared as the difference between what was promised, and after some news-letter de bunking, what was being delivered, I decided to wait and see what a product would actually do in the hands of the casual non-professional user.

    I watched Ubuntu grow from humble piece of tinkering to a viable system, but I have also watched other systems progressively over the years consistently deliver less while charging more.

    Wave could, in the right hands, at the right time, capture a huge amount of market share away from existing "payed for" systems.
    wgraue
  • Wow, when you put it that way...

    [i]Maybe the idea of slicing bread instead of ripping
    it apart to scoop up some thick stew like a bunch of
    heathens[/i]

    Hmmm... When you put it that way, sliced bread sucks!

    As for Wave, I'm not sure I want this evolution. I
    don't know if I want my IM and email and collaboration
    to all be one. I think I like to keep my communication
    media separate for separate functions.

    But I'm not saying I don't like Wave, I'm just saying
    I don't know if I'll like it. I'll be eagerly
    following this one so I can make up my mind.
    bran.e.murray
  • Spam

    Just one question.
    Is it spam proof?
    adinas
  • Master Joe Says...

    While Jason and I see eye to eye on some things, and not on others for sure, this is one instance where I agree with him. Most of the people who support Google Wave do so because they woudl support anything tha was open source, if that is how it turns out in the end. For the person above who claims that Google is going to open source EVERYTHING, you have clearly never had a problem with Google AdSense. They suspended my account, claiming that I was violating their ToS, which was not the case at all, since I never made a single dime off of AdSense, and claimed that they could not tell me why the account aws suspended because their algorithm is "proprietary." Last time I checked, that wasn't open source. As far as Google Wave, when I use e-mail, I want one thing: SIMPLICITY. This clearly begins to pull e-mail away from simplicity, and bring it closer to the rest of the social networking, collaborative, and IM tools that I prefer to be separate. If I wanted them all together, I'd use an application like Digsby. In this case, also, I see Google as a company that very much likes to impose their will on consumers. Look at Chrome, and their current digitizing of books project. While Google looks to offer a variety of services, they look to do it THEIR way, rather than a way that would be benefitial, equally, to all of its consumers and customers. For as much slack as people give Microsoft for their practices 15-20 years ago, you'd think that following Google blindly, accepting anything they do as "good" would not happen, but it clearly is the case here, as it is on the Android platform, and the Chrome browser.

    --Master Joe
    SteelCityPC