Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

Google's beta culture struggles when the price isn't free

By | November 11, 2011, 9:39am PST

Summary: Is the beta and iterate approach so bad? It is when you’re forking over real dollars for something that should just work like your TV.

Logitech acting CEO Guerrino De Luca took his lumps in an investor meeting and blamed Google TV and Logitech’s Revue for hefty losses. The Revue is gone and Logitech is doubling down on business via its LifeSize unit and retooling its product lineup for consumers.

De Luca’s presentation got a lot of folks wound up. Here’s the slide that hurts:

De Luca basically said Google TV had no business being on the market and was clearly a beta.

Is the beta and iterate approach so bad? It is when you’re forking over real dollars for something that should just work like your TV. If the device is free then you give Google more leeway.

This beta disconnect follows through to other products. Google’s Chromebook would be fine as a free device. For $500, Google’s Chromebook is a tougher sell. DigiTimes reported that Acer only sold 5,000 Chromebooks. For business, Google’s Chromebook makes sense for administration purposes. My ZDNet UK colleague Jack Schofield considers the Chromebook to be another “Googleflop.” Sean Portnoy said the Chrome OS will continue. For Google’s part, the company noted that it is getting Chromebook traction in education. In any case, you could argue that the Chromebook effort seems like a beta. Overall, it’s far too early to call Chromebooks a flop for businesses. For consumers, Chromebooks haven’t gained.

Also on the beta front, Google’s Honeycomb Android launch was also clearly a beta that needed fixing later. That’s fine unless you’re buying an overpriced tablet like the Motorola Xoom. Android tablets still struggle with pricing and integration issues.

The more expensive a Google powered device is the less tolerance you have for a beta-ish feel.

Ultimately, Google’s perpetual beta approach—outlined in this Knowledge@Wharton article—means that the company may have to reorganize. The launch fast and iterate works on the Web, but beta worship doesn’t fly with integrated devices that may cost you $500. Google may have to form two divisions—one that’s beta happy and another that doesn’t cause key partners to lose a lot of money.

In other words, Google needs to realize that different markets require various approaches. Wharton prof Karl Ulrich drives the point home:

What you call the ‘perpetual beta’ has its origins in the spiral model of product development. Instead of fully detailing in advance exactly what the product will do and then engineering to that specification, the developer rapidly iterates through define-build-test cycles in order to take advantage of the learning that occurs in the interaction with the user. Obviously this approach would not work well with a Boeing commercial airframe. [That type of] product has to be right from the start and you don’t want to have to maintain many different versions of the product in the field.

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Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic.

Disclosure

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan has nothing to disclose. He doesn’t hold investments in the technology companies he covers.

Biography

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic. He was most recently Executive Editor of News and Blogs at ZDNet. Prior to that he was executive news editor at eWeek and news editor at Baseline. He also served as the East Coast news editor and finance editor at CNET News.com. Larry has covered the technology and financial services industry since 1995, publishing articles in WallStreetWeek.com, Inter@ctive Week, The New York Times, and Financial Planning magazine. He's a graduate of the Columbia School of Journalism and the University of Delaware.

For daily updates, follow Larry on Twitter.

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RE: Google's beta culture struggles when the price isn't free
admiraljkb 14th Nov
@adornoe@...

Yeah, that is situation normal now. Nothing new, even from Apple, whose original iPhone was a cheap proof of concept device to find out if there was actually a market. It sold, so they released the proper release product, the iPhone 3g. MS did it with Vista, and Google does it for everything (although they're pretty truthful about it most of the time unlike the others). happy
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GFail
Tim Acheson 11th Nov
This article offers an insightful analysis, but is too forgiving to Google. This is a dinosaur corporation long ago corrupted by arrogance, with a track-record more of imitation than of innovation. Google led the way in search and are still dining out on that, but it all happened a decade ago now.

#GFail
@baggins_z
Android is very successful move into the operating system space by Google and hundreds of millions are made off of it yearly. Yes, much of the revenue derived from it by Google is in ads but their partners are raking in the dough on hardware sales. Also, most successful companies maintain their momentum by creating new products that tie into their core competencies. Take Microsoft. They really only have two successful products Windows and Office. Even the X-Box is vastly in the red when you consider how much money they've spent over the years on it. And the X-Box is still a software experience which is what MS is all about. Maybe you're the one trick pony.
@Tim Acheson - To be fair, Logitech carry a lot of the blame for their losses too. Why did they commit so heavily to a platform that was clearly not ready?
@bitcrazed and its inevitable success. Now they blame Google, instead of looking at their bad decisions.
@bitcrazed

I agree. One of their big problems was that they had priced the Revue way out of line for its market. At $99, it is perfectly priced though. They just need to go on an advertising offensive now with the new pricing and new/fixed GoogleTV version. Revue isn't actually a failure - YET. The concept is a good one, particularly with broadcast TV and cable now on the decline, but it is execution and timing for the product is the big issue. How many products get released too early, only to be successful later? The PDA/Smartphone is one of those that comes to mind. If it isn't Revue, it will be somebody else's device that will assume the mantle. Western Digital has the WDLive series, although they haven't gotten the kinks worked out of that either...
@Tim Acheson
Google barely even mentioned Android in their last quarterly earnings report.
One would think that such a strategic and "dominant" product sector would have been broken down in the report with some kind of cost/earnings statement. Instead, Google mostly just talks about mobile search income, which doesn't break down how much comes from Android or other platforms.
@Synthmeister Google is claiming in court that they barely make any money with Android. They are not going to talk Android on earning reports because they know that by doing so, it will show to the court that they are lying.

Also, by now they probably know that they have no chase of avoiding payment to Oracle for all the stolen IP and unlicensed patent tech they use in Android. This is the reason why they haven't release the source code for Honeycomb and will not be releasing the source code for ICS.
@Tim Acheson Why does every ZDNet commentator have to get up on a soapbox and channel Cotton Mather as they spew forth hyperbole and heap attacks on various companies or brands?

I was just at Ars Technica the other day... people actually have intelligent discussions, and there's MODERATORS who do this crazy thing where they actually post warnings to people that if they're going to fill their post with extreme claims or statements then they're going to need to back them up with evidence rather than leave them as unproven assertions or they'll be deleted. There's no cast of trolls either. Then I come back here today and... Tim Acheson makes me cry a little. sad

In the spirit of Ars... Tim, you're going to need to support the assertions of "dinosaur corporation", "corrupted", "arrogance", and "track record more of imitation than innovation".
I would buy a chrome OS PC (not a notebook) if its as small as a Roku box and costs 200$ or less.
There's a part in it about "polishing stones" that he should take to heart. Basically, the idea is that a product isn't "polished" as it's first conceived, but is improved on during the design process by designers arguing, fighting, refining. Google lets products loose before they're polished. SJ wouldn't do that.
for the iPhone 4S. And, SJ was still alive when the 4S/Siri was in the planning and development stages.

Apple is as guilty of the "beta" sin as Google, and perhaps even more so, because, the 4S is a lot more expensive than Google TV.
@adornoe@... and Siri is actually quite polished.. unlike honeycomb, unlike google TV...
@adornoe@...
Not quite. Neither Revue or Xoom(or any of the Android tablets) sold. Next, Xoom shipped in a unstable fashion, missing flash, a working SD slot and the LTE support.

Those features, when you purchased the Xoom didn't work. The SD slot didn't work until...July? August? Siri is working right now.
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doctorSpoc: Irrelevant!
adornoe@... 11th Nov
The fact remains that, a "beta" product was used to sell a "new" version of the iPhone, and that's something that would seem to be underhanded when extracting a large amount of money from people's pockets. Siri could have been used when it was "ready" and not in "beta" mode. Beta means, "not ready" yet, and "if you do have some problems, well, tough luck, because, we (Apple) branded it as 'beta'".

Not cool!
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dhmccoy: Also irrelevant!
adornoe@... 11th Nov
If a product is branded as "beta", it should cost people any money to get. If any other product or gadget is sold, and not branded as "beta", then the manufacturer would be expected to correct any problems or to issue a better working similar/same product. That's what warranties are about. Beta, by definition, is not guaranteed. And, if not guaranteed, it shouldn't be a paid option.
@adornoe@...
I see the point you are getting at. If Siri was a paid service then Apple would be doing it's Siri customers a disfavour. Good thing it's not a paid service though, but if it were I definitely see what you're getting at.
@adornoe@...

Siri is one of the many features on the iPhone 4S. You don't even have to use it if you don't want to, to enjoy the iPhone. GoogleTV was beta software, from the complexity of its UI to the manufacturers required keyboard accessories. Even the main draw of GoogleTV, watching network web content on TV (Hulu for instance) was blocked because Google failed to work out deals prior to launch. Why would anyone pay $300 and above for such a flawed product?
@adornoe@...
Siri has been clearly labeled "beta" and didn't cost extra to use.

The Google TV cost $300 and was NOT labeled beta.
Siri is a "free service", the point is that, without the "coolness" that was being marketed with Siri, the iPhone4S would probably have been considered not worthy of being called an upgrade, no matter what the internal specs.

The fact is that, iPhone marketing is using Siri as the main feature and the main selling point, and people are definitely paying to get the iPhone 4S because of Siri. In effect, people have been hoodwinked into getting a product because of a beta feature, and beta should not be getting charged for.
@adornoe@...

Yeah, that is situation normal now. Nothing new, even from Apple, whose original iPhone was a cheap proof of concept device to find out if there was actually a market. It sold, so they released the proper release product, the iPhone 3g. MS did it with Vista, and Google does it for everything (although they're pretty truthful about it most of the time unlike the others). happy
@Userama Mostly true, except there's no need for fighting. That's Jobs' OCPD talking.
Yeah - a "beta" is fine for software which is nearly free and easily upgraded, but not so much for costly hardware that can't really be upgraded.

Fail.
@CobraA1
The hardware isn't beta. The free Siri software is.
Logitech and Google I think missed the mark. The problem is that x86 hardware costs a lot of money to manufacture. There is absolutely no situation in which the average person is going to pay $400-$500 for a magic black box that doesn't even have a simple Bluray player in it.

The Revue, like it or not, needs to be priced competitive to Roku. They are providing the same bullet point features from a non-techie perspective and the Roku is $50 (was $60 then). This price point is impossible to achieve with x86 hardware. For that you need ARM. ARM can get you down to the $20 price range for the bulk hardware components on a device like the Revue. However, you now need to provide things like H.264 hardware support and you can't support Flash very well.

Does anyone know why the only camera that works with the Revue costs $150? Simple, its not a camera. Its a whole computer unto itself wrapped around a camera. Why? Even with x86 hardware the Revue is only fast enough to either encode video or decode video. They had to build the video encoding directly into the camera itself to offload it from the Revue.

So, think about that... If they dropped flash support, switched to ARM, mandated H.264 codec and provided ample hardware H.264 codec support onboard they solve multiple problems. The camera can now cost $50 instead of $150. The Revue can now cost $100 instead of $400 (and still leave more than a 100% profit margin). And as a side benefit the device uses 5-10W of power instead of 50W or more. Offer an add-on USB Bluray player for another $50 that stacks seamlessly onto the device. Offer an add-on surround sound amp for another $50 that stacks onto the device. These companies keep burning down the forest trying to strike a match to see the trees.
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Good article
dwb124 Updated - 11th Nov
...And chromebooks are *conceptually* a cool idea, but do not have enough functionality for most people. Coupled with the fact that I'm unwilling (and I'm sure most of you are) to spend money on an incomplete product that Google promises will acheive a higher level of functionality at some point in the future (BB Playbook anyone?).
So Chromebooks are getting into education, well thats great, but every computer on earth can do word processing and math games and other basic learning software, many probably for the same price, and with a full OS. And higher level educational institutions certainly aren't using Chromebooks for AutoCad, scientific imaging/analysis, graphic design etc. I just dont see the point unless they price them at $100. I think they should drop the chromebooks, focus on bringing more quality control to Android partners, and merge the Chrome browser into the Android OS.
@dwb124
Personally, I would prefer Chrome OS with improved offline functionality over Android if it was $100 - $120. Maybe a bit higher. What I never got was why is it so expensive. I mean I could get a netbook for $180 so they should be able to save the cost of Windows + x86 chip (use ARM instead) to get it to about $120 I would think. The current prices are just unacceptable. Maybe they should do something about that when they complete their purchase of Motorola.
I use practically all Google products and all I see are transparent improvements, nothing ever upsets my productivity. Google calling something beta is meaningless.
All you had to do was look at a picture of the remote for GoogleTV and you knew it was a gigantic FAIL. And that was assuming it worked as advertised.
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Beta
gogalthorp 12th Nov
Worked for Microsoft.

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