ie8 fix

Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

How to save the PC: A petition to Microsoft and Apple

By | September 21, 2009, 4:00am PDT

Summary: Every day, too many PC users needlessly lose data and productivity from operating system failures. There’s a remedy that could alleviate most of them.

Somewhere right now as you’re reading this, there are computer users whose hearts are sinking as they look at their screens, waiting, hoping, some even praying, that their computers will safely reboot from a fatal error and everything that they have saved on the computer - letters, photos, emails, their latest presentations and project files - will magically reappear. For a lot of them, their hopes will be in vain.

In most cases, it’s not really their fault. The problem was likely caused by a poorly-written device driver, or a conflict between two incompatible pieces of software, or an operating system glitch that was always there but wasn’t triggered until recently. In a few cases, the problem might have been caused by a nasty bit of spyware or malware that the user got over the Internet.

Whatever the culprit may be, the consequences are all-too-often an unbootable system. That means that the operating system has to be reinstalled. And, if the OS was originally installed based on the default standards of Microsoft Windows or Mac OS X, then all of the user data on the system will be lost when the OS is reinstalled.

It doesn’t have to be that way. There’s a simple way to avoid losing user data during an OS failure, and it doesn’t involve virtualization, mandatory backups, or cloud computing. It would simply involve the world’s primary OS developers, Microsoft and Apple, adopting a little trick that IT professionals and some power users have been using for over a decade.

I learned the trick from a fellow IT pro in the late 1990s, and since then I have never installed an OS on a personal or business machine without doing it. The trick is a simple one: Hard disc partitioning.

You set up two partitions, one for the core OS and one for data. Although you only have one hard disc, partitioning make it looks like two separate hard discs to the OS. The primary partition is the one that has all of the system files on it. The secondary partition is the one where the user saves all of their files.

If the OS ever runs into major problems or becomes unbootable then you simply blow away the primary partition and reinstall the OS. Once the new OS is up and running on the primary partition, you can open the secondary partition and find that all of the user’s data is completely intact and untouched.

This article was originally published on TechRepublic. You can find Jason Hiner’s blog at hiner.techrepublic.com and you can find him on Twitter at @JasonHiner.

As I’ve already mentioned, IT departments have been doing this for years. In fact, many of them do even more sophisticated tricks like folder redirection and automatically shifting the “My Documents” folder to the secondary partition. But not every IT department is that slick and not everyone has an IT department. Even in the business world, there are lots of small businesses and sole proprietors who buy all of their PCs retail and have no formal IT.

Thus, what I’ve been verbally advocating for years is that Microsoft and Apple make this two-partition scenario part of the default installation of their respective operating systems. It should be automatic and it should be completely invisible to the user. If Microsoft and Apple did nothing but this, it would make the PC universe - and by “PC” I mean both Macs and Windows-based PCs - a much nicer place to live.

However, there is still one challenge with this scenario. If you blow away and reinstall the OS, you also have to reinstall all of your applications and reconfigure all of your settings. That can easily lead to several hours of lost productivity.

Therefore, I’d like to take this proposal one step further. I’d like to suggest that Microsoft and Apple divide the default installation of the operating system into a logical triumvirate of partitions: 1.) the Core OS, 2.) User applications and settings, and 3.) User data. Below is a diagram and a description of how this would work.

1. Core

This would be the primary partition and would include all of the system files, DLLs, and device drivers that make up the heart of the operating system. Isolating the core OS would help it to become much more self-healing in terms of dealing with device drivers and software conflicts. The OS should be able to do automatic updates of missing files, automatic driver rollbacks, and more granular system restores when it detects fatal errors.

If irreparable damage is done to the OS, it should also be easier to do a reinstall. Many PC manufacturers now put a small recovery partition on their Windows PCs. This partition (separate from the primary partition itself) has a compressed version of all the system files that can quickly be expanded and then used to reinstall the OS along with all the native device drivers for the system. Lenovo has even gone so far as to experiment on some PCs with a “reset” button that automatically launches a full reinstall from the recovery partition.

This type of recovery partition would be partition 1a in my scenario and would obviously be an excellent compliment to the default OS installation. In the Windows world, PC manufacturers would need access to this partition in order to integrate their native drivers.

2. User

The second partition would be the home for what Microsoft calls User State (the user’s OS settings), plus the user’s installed applications, and the user’s application settings. This would become the place where all third-party apps are saved and their settings are stored. That way, if the OS is blown away and reinstalled, all of the user’s applications don’t have to be reinstalled too.

The other fringe benefit of this is that it would enable users to seamlessly jump between different computers and take their apps and their settings with them as they go, if this user state partition were replicated to an internal network share, to the cloud, or even to a USB key or an external hard drive. It could also streamline the process of a user migrating to a new computer.

There are some obvious challenges with this approach. First, when the OS is reinstalled, it likely will not have the same version of the OS in terms of patches and service packs and any other dependencies like Java, Flash, or the .NET Framework. That could cause problems for apps. That’s where a self-healing OS would come in very handy. Also, the portability scenario would have major implications for software licensing that would have to be worked out.

3. Data

The third partition is the most important. This is where the user’s unique files and data would be stored. All user files should be saved here by default, and the OS should make it difficult to save data anywhere else by requiring administrator override and popping up a scary dialog box. And, again, this whole thing should be completely transparent to the user, who will simply be directed to save all files in their personal documents folder.

Beyond just protecting the data during an OS reinstallation, sectioning off all user data would also facilitate much easier backup and replication. In fact, both Microsoft and Apple could use this as an opportunity to pitch users on their own (escalated) Web services, Windows Live and MobileMe, as places to seamlessly backup and replicate the user’s files. It would also make it easy for users to know what to backup if they choose third party backup services like Mozy or Carbonite.

And for IT departments that still want to do folder redirection and save all user data on the network instead of local machines, the option would still be there for them. Microsoft and Apple could even beef up their backend server solutions to help facilitate that process for IT.

Linux is not forgotten

I am making this appeal directly to Microsoft and Apple because those two control the lion’s share of the PC operating system market. However, I have not forgotten about Linux. I also extend this appeal to all of the appropriate open source developers - Ubuntu, Novell, Debian, Fedora, and others. In fact, I would not be surprised at all if the open source community was the first to adopt some of the aspects of this proposal. Linux already does this to some degree, but in most cases there’s still the danger of inserting the installation disc and blowing away the whole thing, data and all, if there’s an OS failure.

How to sign the petition

If you agree with this scenario and would like to convey the message to Microsoft and Apple, you can sign the petition virtually by responding to this TechRepublic discussion thread. Click “Post a Reply” with “Yes” as the title and your name as the body of the message.

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Topics

Jason Hiner is the Editor in Chief of TechRepublic. He writes about the products, people, and ideas that are revolutionizing business with technology.

Disclosure

Jason Hiner

Jason Hiner has nothing to disclose. He doesn't hold investments in the technology companies he covers.

Biography

Jason Hiner

Jason Hiner is the Editor in Chief of TechRepublic, an online trade publication and peer-to-peer community for IT leaders. He is an award-winning journalist who examines the latest trends and asks the big questions about the technology industry. He previously worked as an IT manager in the health care industry.

You can also find him on Twitter, , Facebook, and at JasonHiner.com.

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RE: How to save the PC: A petition to Microsoft and Apple
makrejktt2901-24353668065513681736555950048637 5th Nov
hcvdxb,good post!
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erm???
mcfaul@... Updated - 21st Sep 2009
Sorry this sentence

"then all of the user data on the system will
be lost when the OS is reinstalled"

is complete rubbish.

I just re-installed my OS this weekend.

I selected a clean install, but i did NOT
format the drive.

Windows helpfully moved all of my documents,
photos, music (and indeed all of my other user
data) to a folder called windows.old,
where I could easily retrieve them happy

So re-installing an OS does NOT automatically
mean that you loose all of your documents,
even if they are on the same partition as the
OS, that would only be true if you had to
reformat the partition, which is relatively
rare!
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oh and of course...
mcfaul@... 21st Sep 2009
i have everything i need backed up, locally
and off site, anyway
It seems many "problems" aren't really a failing of the OS but rather the users lack of knowledge about their options.
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Staff
Indeed
Jason Hiner 21st Sep 2009
That's the point. Let's not leave this to the user to have to figure out, when a change to the default installation could make system recovery a lot easier for both IT and end users.
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They call someone who knows what they're doing. Furthermore there are many alternatives to recovering a Windows system that do not involve re-installing the OS (System Restore, Repair, and Recovery Console to name three).

But realistically people should be backing up their systems.
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Staff
Backups
Jason Hiner 21st Sep 2009
Part of the idea here is that this scenario will make backups much easier. Microsoft and Apple could offer their own backup services built into the OS and third parties could easily integrate their own services if the setup was this simplified.
All one need do is backup the users home folder. Having it on a different partition will not make it any easier.

Note: I am not addressing your other comments. Just the partition part.
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Staff
By aggregating all data in one place
Jason Hiner 21st Sep 2009
As you mentioned, most stuff goes into the My Documents folder now, but there are still occasionally software that saves to other spots and there are still users who drag stuff into the root C: drive.

The idea is to make that type of thing more difficult and push all user data to the data partition, by requiring admin override for users to do otherwise and requiring software to use the data drive for user files.
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...the users home folder(s) forces aggregation of data any more than what already exists today. The users home folder is where all the users data should reside. Creating a separate partition doesn't change that. If a user elects to, or a program is configured to, store the information somewhere else I fail to see how partitioning would change that.

he idea is to make that type of thing more difficult and push all user data to the data partition, by requiring admin override for users to do otherwise and requiring software to use the data drive for user files.

That effectively exists today. In a default configuration users are prohibited from saving things outside of their home directory without an "admin override". The problem is, under Windows XP, most people use administrative accounts by default thus "overriding" the default. In Vista and Windows 7 the admin approval already exists in the form of a UAC prompt.

However there is one exception and that is users are permitted to create new folders off the root of a drive. I'd like to see Microsoft change the default security permissions to prohibit this but it's not a show stopper for locating data.
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And then..
bobiroc 21st Sep 2009
get hit with an anti-trust lawsuit from all the third party makers of back up software and solutions. Hasn't history shown you that everytime Microsoft tries to include a feature in their OS they get slammed for either forcing the end user to have that feature on their computer but then get slammed for not taking situations like this seriously. For years Windows has been plagued with the risk of Malware and many users either did not know to protect their systems or chose not to be responsible. When One Care came out Microsoft got slammed for making a security product and competing with the big boys like symantec and McAfee. I cannot wait to hear the uproar when Microsoft releases security essentials and the first time a person gets a alert to recommend installing it since their current solution is expired or no solution exists. It never ends.

Windows has come a long way and there are fairly easy methods of recovering a system without the loss of data. System restore or repair installs and even MacOS has their solutions. While I already practice what you suggest and have my data all on a mirrored RAID setup and I can easily re-install or upgrade my OS and within a few steps I can have it like nothing happened it is not something everyone would want to do by default.

Just my 2 cents.
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Apple provides for...
arminw 21st Sep 2009
automatic backups with something they call Time Machine. The user
has to supply an external hard drive to which the data is to be backed
up. They even sell a networkable system called Time Capsule that will
automatically back up several computers at once. Once this is set up, it
is all transparent to the user and fully automatic. The backup includes
not only user data, and all network connections setups and applications
as well. If there is a disk failure, all this complicated partitioning
business won't help a bit, but good backups and keep the data safe and
have you up and running in no time at all.
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I repectfully disagree..
JCitizen Updated - 21st Sep 2009
although my brother probably could have used Time machine a couple of days ago when he lost his airport network!

For years I had problems on my old 700Mhz Dell with the "Max RAM" of 768Mbs and I finally added a 250Gb drive to keep the data on, and used a partition the identical size as the root boot drive to put the drive image on.

This way I don't spend a day recovering, I only spend an hour or maybe an afternoon.

Funny thing was, after I did this on a XP Pro installation, I've never had a disaster since!

However, I have learned to use Secunia PSI to keep any and all applications patched and invulnerable as possible, and XP Pro's ability to take control of a NTFS folder on another drive, to take back my life with as little fuss as possible.

This should be the DEFAULT arrangement from the FACTORY! As far as I'm concerned; if Home editions are not capable of this(which I doubt). Then it ought to be illegal to sell that kind of cr@p to the public!!

I work for no man or machine! I just hate malware to pieces!!!
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Windows Backups
travega 22nd Sep 2009
I have Vista Ultimate installed and its backup and restore center sets up a partition on your drive for your backups. I have reinstalled the OS twice and the backup partition has stayed intact throughout.

This is not a good article.
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Problem is it has a long history all the way back to Windows 95 of sucking more than a Hoover. I mean I have seen very few back ups done with MS's backup app(s) that were usable when the user tried to restore their files.......
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Actually
j.m.galvin 21st Sep 2009
All MS or Apple would have to do would be to make the installer app
work for a simple clean install on Windows or Archive and Install on
Mac.

It probably is too much to expect the average user to understand the
difference among various installation methods, so having one of the
above as the default would probably save a lot of headaches.
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Actually since the "average" user...
JCitizen 21st Sep 2009
has only one hard drive, making it possible to have a repair option instead of a total re-install would be better!

The stupid AV companies should get in the middle of this, as they could sell solutions that would durn near make their AV obsolete!

Oh! Wait-a- minute, that would be suicide! Right?

Nah!! If Acronis, Faronics, and Symantec can make money on it, what's the difference?
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Risky
bishofthedump 22nd Sep 2009
There is no alternative to a good, regular backup regimen. This kind of
thing creates the illusion of safety, but no more. Sure unbootable OSes
happen, and when they do, it can be a little irritating copying everything
back to a fresh install. But that's far better than suffering a catastrophic
hard drive failure and not having a recent backup because you falsely
believed your partitions to be a workable safeguard.

It's worth remembering (as your article points out) not everyone has an IT
department to point out the obvious...
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Furthermore
MadWhiteHatter 21st Sep 2009
In addition to what you both stated, if the user data was on a different partition, wouldn't there be difficulty in accessing it on a new OS reinstall? My data is encrypted, so if someone were to take one of user profiles and copy it to a removable drive, they cannot open it. If I, however, were to use windows.old like I usually do, I can get to my old data. It is a typical hacking technique I use to access the files of someone who downloaded bad things on the PC, and I need to investigate.
...any form of encryption is in use. For example if you're using EFS and you have not backed up the certificate offline you'd render all encrypted data in a partition unreadable if you were to re-install the OS (because doing so would wipeout the certificate store).
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EFS is a big ugly pig that needs to die...
Joshua_Morgan 21st Sep 2009
There are better ways of securing data with encryption, and EFS is not one of them.

I would stick with a third party software such as TrueCrypt or Checkpoint, maybe even bit locker (haven't used it), to encrypt the entire drive, even flash media and usb drives. EFS is just too dangerous to use, especially if it is data you need. I would never recommend to anyone the use of EFS.
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After Windows 2000
jdbukis@... 21st Sep 2009
There is not realy any problems with it, but I am open to be informed otherwise.
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I used it on Windows 2000 Server systems and it worked very well. Just make sure to back up your certificates.
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That is unless you want to be sure
mjolnar@... 21st Sep 2009
That what caused the errors(virus) is eliminated. If you have ever had to get rid of Vista Anti-Virus 2008, you will understand. You can't just re-install the O/S because you haven't gotten rid of the Virus yet. That is worse on XP than Vista its self, but you need to get rid of it all to be sure.

this makes more sense, because you could make the O/S clean, the virus will have to be on the partition that holds the O/S.
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Not sure what world you live in but
bobtran 21st Sep 2009
When you re-install/install new with clean install (not upgrade in place) the contents of the My Documents, My Pictures, My Music, My...etc are NOT copied to the windows.old folders. If you want to retain your docs,music,pictures you have to store them somewhere other than the My... system folders. On your desktop will work. So this process would help the average non-technical home user. furthermore the average home user does not call someone who knows pc's until they have damaged the recovery process by trying to fix it themselves. I have had to tell too many people that their precious pictures are gone and can't be recovered too many times. The average pc user doesn't know that much about pc's and the built in backup programs confuse many non-skilled users.
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yeah it does
mcfaul@... 21st Sep 2009
trust me, i did it on sunday!

in windows.old i had my old windows folder, my
programs folder, and my users folder (complete
with all users, their music, their documents,
their pictures etc etc etc)

if in doubt, try researching:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/933209

From that article:

The Windows.old folder contains the following
folders:
Windows
"Documents and Settings"
"Program Files"

and i can confirm it works under windows 7,
JUST like it did under vista, EVERYTHING gets
put into windows.old, a custom install deletes
NOTHING, if in doubt, it gets moved there!
0 Votes
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No it doesn't
bobtran Updated - 21st Sep 2009
I'm posting on a computer that was upgraded from windows XP to Windows 7 with clean install and the folders:
My Documents, My pictures, My Music, etc in windows.old were emptied during the upgrade, and yes there WERE items in these folders prior to the upgrade. Other people I know who upgraded to Windows 7 have experienced the same behavior.

In Windows.old:
Windows directory is there...agreed
Program files directory is there....agreed
Documents and Settings directory is there..agreed
folders inside Documents and Settings..ie My whatever-folder-you-choose(My pictures or other system folders that start with "My" are there but "EMPTY" of the contents.

If this works for you good-for-you, not working for many other people I have worked with and not repeat not working for me either.
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That is because of the Windows or OEM..
JCitizen Updated - 21st Sep 2009
way of doing things. I never ceases to amaze me they still haven't figured out the simple better way, despite that fact that multi-drive and partitioned PCs are already sold on the market now.
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Yeah and not only that...
Peter Perry 21st Oct 2009
Sometimes Windows doesn't reset the permissions on those other partitions and then you have to take ownership of the files and spend all the time resetting the file permissions for the users...
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Or, Disk Drives are dirt cheap
No_Ax_to_Grind 21st Sep 2009
Currently you can buy a 250 Gig drive for under $40 retail. Surely a PC OEM can buy them for half that. One hard drive for the OS, a larger drive for everything else. Partitions are great but when the hard drive fails it takes all the partitions with it.
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Extra disk drives
Starman35 21st Sep 2009
This is an excellent idea. I've been doing this for years on my home
machine. I now have 3 HD's, with different OS's on them, and replicating
personal data onto the three drives into data partitions that do not have
any part of the OS on them. On my current work machine, I do this also.
My next work machine, however, due to stupid gov't IT regulations, will
not have that advantage, & I won't be able to do it myself either.
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I use Windows Home Server...
PollyProteus 21st Sep 2009
...which does automatic backups of your whole system drive and any other data you select (the default being everything on the computer).

I already have two physical drives (1tb each) in my desktop system, plus a number of external drives for supplemental copies of supremely important data backup but Windows Home Server does a full system drive backup and then incremental backups each night so that if my system drive goes down, I can put in a new hard drive and get my system back to the state it was (complete with software installs) as of the last incremental backup.

The same with my data drive.

It even wakes my computer from sleep to do the backup.

When I heard a friend had restored his wife's laptop this way after her hard drive crashed I was sold. Check it out, seriously, it's a life saver.
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I second this comment! (WHS!)
Speednet 21st Sep 2009
Windows Home Server is one of the best products Microsoft has ever built, it's that good.

ZDNet bloggers are constantly saying they're looking for "dead-simple" tools, yet they don't mention WHS enough in this category. Clearly it is.

For users looking for the ideal backup solution -- in which there is zero config, yet 100% backup converage -- WHS is the ticket.

I have restored two dead PCs, a laptop and a desktop machine, by just popping in a new hard drive and using the boot CD that finds the Home Server on the network and letting it do its thing.

To start backing up, you install the connector software on each PC -- and that's it! Literally everything is taken care of.

To me, WHS is a much better solution than forcing the OS to install into mutliple partitions.
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That's how the Pros do it!!..
JCitizen 21st Sep 2009
Each Office node has a server with all the clients document/ect. files on it. Even if the client moves to a new office the file folder can be moved to a new office server.

If the client machine gets slammed with an email exploit - NO PROBLEM! Hose it down and reinstall the OS and wualla! No harm-no foul!
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I third this post
bobtran 21st Sep 2009
Windows Home Server has saved my laptop more than once and permits me to admin my desktop partitions at a much higher level than would normally be permitted without this product. Example of this is take space from your first partition and add it the the second partition in one process. You cant just add space from the left of the partition easily as windows does not permit this.

I can also recover from ANY virus/infection as if it never happened with a simple restore that takes 20-30 minutes and no reactivation of windows is required. Upgrade a drive...pop in the new drive and restore the last backup. Your now good to go in about 20 minutes with a new larger drive.

To many good things to list related to this product, it can be had for under $100 and you can run it on an old pc you no longer use or a cheap off lease $129 pc from tigerdirect.com

You never need to loose any files, pictures, music, etc again.
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I forth it!!!...
JCitizen 21st Sep 2009
Even though I may only use a wireless NAS backup device; possibly without a MS server OS on it.
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Time Machine
jeremychappell 21st Sep 2009
Here I think Apple could take the initiative, they are always telling us
how wonderful Time Machine is (and when you actually need it, it is!)
but their machines only ship with one hard disk, and usually can only
take on (internal) disk. Perhaps iMacs, and MacBooks should come
with two drives, one defaulting to Time Machine.

If you're buying a Mac - do yourself a favour, drives are cheap, buy a
nice big one and use it as a "Time Machine".

For readers in Windows; "Time Machine" is the name Apple give their
backup facility. Why is it cool? Well it doesn't ask what you're backing
up - it just does everything, then once an hour it stores everything
that has changed as an incremental backup (these are coalesced at the
end of the day, and the end of the week - then just stored until the
device runs out of space then the oldest are deleted - the user is
alerted to this). This is good because backing up is dull, and if you
forget something then you're screwed. Of course there is even more
"Mac-ness" to this, as when you need to retrieve something from the
"Time Machine" there is a totally over the top animated way to do this.
Yes, it's needlessly pretty, but it is clear what's happening. Even better
applications can hook into this facility too - so if you're looking for
lost photos you can do that from iPhoto (the UI is familiar as it is the
application you normally use). From a technical point of view, it isn't
actually all that clever, but it works very well and makes using it "fun"
(which must be a first for a backup utility). It also leverages other Mac
technologies like "Spotlight" - a search facility, and "QuickLook" - a
fileviewer that can render the content of lots of file type without
needing to launch an application, together these represent a powerful
solution to file recovery.
0 Votes
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So what does that cost?...
JCitizen 21st Sep 2009
My brother sure could have used that this weekend!!!
0 Votes
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Nix!
rahbm 24th Sep 2009
It costs nothing for the software; Time Machine comes as part of Leopard
(and Snow Leopard).

You will need to buy the external drive, but that is obviously money well
spent if you ever need to restore anything.
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2 hard disks
Rick_R 21st Sep 2009
Actually, if you are doing a fresh install, that's a great place to use an old drive that was removed because it was too small. Nowadays an 80GB disk is considered pretty small, but it will hold a HUGE amount of PROGRAMS. Then just use the 500+GB second disk for data only.

Actually, even if you are not doing a fresh install you can STILL do that. Clone the huge disk (pre-user data) to the small disk, then put the small disk as the boot drive. Then wipe the large disk and set it up as the data drive.
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Exactly (well almost)
escapepod 21st Sep 2009
The only difference between your description and my setup is that for my OS/Apps drive, I use a new 74GB 10,000 RPM drive. It makes for a much better performing PC. I also have the Data drive(s) - two 500 GB drives, mirrored (RAID 1). I use Acronis to image the OS/Apps drive to an external drive, and it keeps the image updated with the OS and driver changes.
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I like your moniker..
JCitizen 21st Sep 2009
it fits the subject!!

That looks like a good hardware profile for Snowleopard x64!! Is this your OS?
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Just Vista...
escapepod 22nd Sep 2009
... but that may be what I configure on my daughter's Apple when I upgrade it to Snow Leopard.
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How many disks can you put into a laptop? (NT)
Earthling2 Updated - 21st Sep 2009
.
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Two if it is designed right...
JCitizen 21st Sep 2009
and at least one external USB and even a wireless NAS device!

Having an occasional USB backup device, that can be disconnected, add to the reliability of the service!
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HD failure more common
deepee912 22nd Sep 2009
I agree, hard drive failure is more common in my
experience than an OS failure that requires a
reinstall.
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Or, Disk Drives are dirt cheap
No_Ax_to_Grind 21st Sep 2009
Currently you can buy a 250 Gig drive for under $40 retail. Surely a PC OEM can buy them for half that. One hard drive for the OS, a larger drive for everything else. Partitions are great but when the hard drive fails it takes all the partitions with it.

Keep a shadow copy of the registry on the big drive with all the user settings, etc. Reinstall the OS on the small drive, put the registry back and your good to go.
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Staff
Yes, two drives would be ideal
Jason Hiner 21st Sep 2009
But it's also a little more expensive and it would depend on PC manufacturers to implement it. Since they have very low profit margins in their PCs right now (besides Apple), I don't think all of them would do it. That's why I proposed just doing it as a partition scheme. Also, the standard drives are getting so big (250GB+, as you noted), that it makes partitioning even more viable. After all, who needs that much space just for a system partition? happy
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I don't know about that.
No_Ax_to_Grind 21st Sep 2009
As a consumer if I were given a choice between a standard set up (single drive) vs. a "safe" setup with dual drives (make the OS drive even smaller or solid state) for say $20 or $25 it would be a no brainer. For the OEM it's not a big deal because they build a master install and then replicate it a few million times. In fact I would bet MS and Linux would do it for them.
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Staff
I don't think ...
Jason Hiner 21st Sep 2009
you're the average consumer. I think it's safe to say you're much more tech savvy than the average consumer. I don't know if the average PC buyer in Best Buy or Wal-Mart would understand the benefits of a two-drive system for an extra 25-50 bucks.
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You may be right, depends how its marketed.
No_Ax_to_Grind 21st Sep 2009
You may be right and it would take educating the consumer a bit by explaing what the extra bucks gains them. As we both know, that is often an uphill battle...
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RE: How to save the PC: A petition to Microsoft and Apple
makrejktt2901-24353668065513681736555950048637 5th Nov
hcvdxb,good post!

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