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Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

HP's master plan: Put WebOS in stasis until PC unit is spun off

By | August 23, 2011, 6:10am PDT

Summary: HP’s plan appears to be to develop WebOS just enough to keep people interested and then pack it into stasis to buy time for the PC unit to be spun off.

If you’re confused about the future of HP’s WebOS you’re forgiven. The company’s messaging isn’t exactly clarifying much, but the fire sale of the Touchpad, which took on a life of its own, may yield some opportunity.

Ultimately, HP is trying to license, optimize or monetize WebOS. Those aspirations mean that HP’s fire sale on the TouchPad could be a nice jump start. WebOS will have some traction—even if HP loses lots of dough on TouchPads and smartphones. If HP sticks with using WebOS on printers and PCs then there’s an installed base to appeal to a potential buyer or licensee.

In other words, WebOS has enough traction to open source or potentially license. It’s unclear what company would bet on WebOS, but rest assured that HP’s possibly-spun-off PC unit would be a likely candidate. HP could spin off the PC business and that independent company could hop back into the tablet race. Jason Perlow also speculated that Amazon could be a fit with a WebOS tablet. That possibility isn’t the worst idea out there.

Add it up and HP may have some method to its abundance of madness. However, right now there appears to be a lot more madness than method.

But by keeping WebOS somewhat alive, HP has a chance to monetize it.

Also see: Palm. HP. Who owns WebOS next?

So how’s HP doing? Well, a lot more people know about WebOS than they did just a week ago. HP’s bombshell announcements that it may spin off the PC unit, discontinue the TouchPad and buy Autonomy put the company front and center of the news cycle. Toss in fire sale frenzy over the weekend and HP generated more buzz for its TouchPad and WebOS than it ever could before.

So what’s HP going to do with WebOS? Got me. Frankly, I’d be shocked if HP knows. If HP did have a solid plan you’d think they’d communicate it better than they have so far. Given recent statements from HP you’d think they were trying to throw us off the WebOS trail.

HP CEO Leo Apotheker said last week on HP’s earnings and transformation conference call:

We know that many developers feel the operating system is elegantly designed and is a respected platform. Therefore, we are exploring options for how best to optimize the value of webOS software going forward. However, our webOS devices have not gained enough traction in the marketplace with consumers and we see too long a ramp-up in the market share.

Due to market dynamics, significant competition, and a rapidly changing environment and this week’s news only reiterates the speed and nature of this change, continuing to execute our current device approach in this market space is no longer in the best interest of HP and HP shareholders.

Therefore, we have made a difficult but necessary decision to shut down webOS hardware operations within Q4 2011. Transformation can involve difficult decisions, but we take these steps to better position for the future.

Parsing that statement, HP seems to think that WebOS can live on without hardware. The problem: HP is the only one that makes WebOS-based hardware. Talk about tricky.

Shortly after Apotheker spoke, HP said on its Palm blog that the death of WebOS was greatly exaggerated. HP didn’t bury WebOS, but wanted to “ensure the platform’s evolution.”

No one quite bought that line.

But now it appears that the WebOS will live on via that Pre 3 smartphone—at least in France and the United Kingdom. Meanwhile, HP will use WebOS on printers and PCs, which will ultimately be spun off.

Ina Fried at AllThingsD reports
that HP justifies the PC-WebOS connection because the company is the only one making devices with the operating system. That’s why HP will continue to churn out TouchPads in a fire sale until it empties its supply chain and component commitments.

WebOS chief Stephen DeWitt told AllThingsD that WebOS will live on in all kinds of connected devices. In other words, WebOS is not dead.

Given these somewhat crazy crosscurrents at HP, we can only guess at WebOS master plan. As a public service to HP, I pieced together parts of WebOS puzzle to hand the company a potential master plan (someone needs to have one). Here’s the plan:

  1. Kill WebOS hardware.
  2. Keep WebOS software viable via PCs and printers so there’s a potential ecosystem there. Perhaps you blow up the tablet market with cheap TouchPads for a month or so.
  3. Spin off the PC unit in 12 to 18 months. Either license WebOS or send it packing with the now independent unit. The latter is the most likely outcome.
  4. This independent unit would have to play in the tablet market somehow and WebOS would be revived.
  5. WebOS would have a base of cult followers.
  6. The new PC company takes on the risk of new tablets, WebOS 4.0 and makes a go of it with some help from the open source community.
  7. Perhaps, HP’s PC spin off becomes a WebOS tablet player. Or it flops. Either way it’s off HP’s books going forward.

Sound convoluted? You bet. But that appears to where HP is trying to wind up. The goal: Put WebOS into stasis to buy time for the PC unit to be spun off.

Also:

Related:

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Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic.

Disclosure

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan has nothing to disclose. He doesn’t hold investments in the technology companies he covers.

Biography

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic. He was most recently Executive Editor of News and Blogs at ZDNet. Prior to that he was executive news editor at eWeek and news editor at Baseline. He also served as the East Coast news editor and finance editor at CNET News.com. Larry has covered the technology and financial services industry since 1995, publishing articles in WallStreetWeek.com, Inter@ctive Week, The New York Times, and Financial Planning magazine. He's a graduate of the Columbia School of Journalism and the University of Delaware.

For daily updates, follow Larry on Twitter.

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RE: HP's master plan: Put WebOS in stasis until PC unit is spun off
Graham Ellison 25th Aug
adornoe@...

"Are you that dense?"

No, but I suspect you might be.

"Nothing I said mentioned the cost of production of the TouchPads or even the iPads."

That's because you failed to take that vital statistic into account before typing. It's the most useful number in this discussion because it's the very lowest production cost anyone could ever achieve.

"What I did say is that, the ideal price at which people will bite and create a bigger market for tablets, is somewhere between $99 and $199."

Even if this was true [and it isn't], so what? Just because some people are only prepared to pay "somewhere between $99 and $199" doesn't mean it will "create a bigger market for tablets". It just means some people are either rich enough to throw away "somewhere between $99 and $199", or too stupid to realise that they're throwing away "somewhere between $99 and $199" on a device that won't EVER be supported or updated.

What these sales of HP TouchPad webOS tablets have done is temporarily satisfy a portion of the market for Android and possibly other NON iOS devices. In 6 months time, they will be bricks - worth less than $10. No self-respecting company would ever consider selling them. Why? Because if Apotheker thinks he's taking flack for damaging HP's reputation now, it's nothing compared to the hit he'll take when ebay is full of them.

"And, if you check my comments again, I mention that, one way for a manufacturer to gain marketshare is to subsidize their tablets and then to figure out a way to lock-in those users while trying to regain the value of the tablets elsewhere."

"That tactic has actually been used in the past, and one notable example is with the PS3, where Sony was losing money on the technology but were willing to do so with the expectation of building a user base and infrastructure that would pay off in the end. Microsoft did the same with the Xbox, where they were losing billions while hoping to recoup those losses at a future time when users became addicted and locked-in to the whole XBox echo-system."

This is as ludicrous as the other comments. How on earth can ANY company do that? Yes, Microsoft and Sony do subsidize their games platforms - and make no money from it. But that's games. The tablet device business model has already been defined. Or do you believe water flows UP-HILL? Anyone can build a business model that makes no money. But why would you? Especially in a market where Apple has already created an ecosystem that people willingly use - indicating there's no buyer resistance.

There's simply no way to monetize enough GUARANTEED after market activity with an all new ecosystem, that could even come close to covering the full cost of manufacture, never mind realize a margin. And you don't go into business and try "to figure out a way to lock-in those users" and get them "addicted" anymore. That's so 20th century.

Remember iTunes started in April 2003. Android is trying to mimic iTunes, and MS is no doubt going to try but these are reactive, copycat models with no new ideas, and neither will make any money for years. More importantly, they certainly won't make a penny for any OEMs. Expecting another OEM - other than its creator Palm, to adopt a crippled OS and even consider such a lunatic venture is to be in denial of reality. Get used to it, MS paid HP to kill webOS. HP, due to accounting measures [needed to offset losses over several Qs], will do nothing with webOS for 12-18 months. webOS is therefore dead.

MS is currently teaming up with companies to take on Apple and Google. Nokia: for mobile phones, HP: for cloud services - hence the new all service company direction. MS need to clean the decks to reduce buyers' options. So RIM will be the next to be targeted.

"So, why not try to engage your brain a bit, and perhaps you'll start thinking that, not every project needs to run a profit right off the drawing table."

That's precisely what I did. Only I did it back in April 2010 when I predicted - on here, that the HP/Palm venture would fail. I was the only one who did. I've been in business for 35 years. I've studied in depth the direction the tech industry has been going since 2000. I develop software for platforms. Back in '06 when Jack Bauer used the Palm Pilot in '24', I liked the company. But a long time before HP bought them, I didn't consider them viable anymore, thanks mainly to some awful internal decisions, a lack of vision, direction, or anything that looked like a business model.

Now, even though you didn't deserve it - for being so rude, you've just had a valuable business lesson.
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It's all about the accounting
Robert Hahn Updated - 23rd Aug
HP paid a billion dollars for WebOS. Most of that billion is on the balance sheet as Goodwill. So long as management continues to insist it has value, the accountants will leave it there. But should they sell it for less than a billion (most likely a lot less than a billion), the difference will move to the income statement as a loss.

They are already going to take a two or three hundred million bath on the TouchPad. That's enough red ink for one quarter. They'll postpone the loss on WebOS for as long as they can, but the Street analysts aren't stupid... They know it's sitting there on the balance sheet waiting to turn some future quarter into a mess. So they (and the regulators) will be goading Apotheker to take his lumps and move on. But not this quarter.
Given the going rate for patents these days I doubt that HP will be taking a loss on the sale. It seems to me that HP had decided to spin off the PSG and did not see the need in sinking more money in to webOS for what would be a short term position and outside any time frame that would allow for a recovery of the investment.
The plan sounds good until you get to the "spin off in 12-18 months". If it takes *that* long, then WebOS will die. That's far too long to be in limbo. They'd better get a sale done by year's end, for this to pay off in any way.

Yeah, I know about the patents, but they won't help WebOS live on by themselves... And the hardware business will be worth much more with both the patents and a viable mobile OS.

-ASB: http://XeeMe.com/AndrewBaker
@ASBzone whether it takes 12-18 months or 12-18 hours, WebOS is dead. If you think otherwise I have this really nice computer with phenomenal graphics and great sound for you. It's called Amiga.

WebOS died when HP abandoned it. Spending ANY money to get the rights to it now would be insane. HP might Open Source it, but I doubt it. It'll go with the PC division, they'll pay lip-service to it for about 12 months, and then it will never be heard from again.
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What if this was...
Peter Perry Updated - 23rd Aug
What if, this was manufactured? What if HP seeing the dying sales said, "we are sure it Will sell if we can get people to use it?" And they manufactured this whole scenario to avoid dumping charges while building a Developer and User Base?

Or, what if they were thinking, Google now has hardware, let's ditch ours and get OEMs to build phones and tablets running the OS?

Both of these are possible scenarios and you have just created a potential market for this OS.
@Peter Perry

It would be a nice addition for Nokia. But Nokia is stuck like chuck.
@Return_of_the_jedi - LOL... sad but true, and kinda funny.
@Peter Perry

If their master plan was to build a developer base by killing off the hardware it's failing miserably. I'm certain that a few diehards might hang around and hope that things work out for the best, but more sensible developers have already started moving on. Microsoft alone has already had 1000+ (and counting) developers express interest in developing for WP7 instead.

It is possible that they saw an opportunity with Google potentially moving into the hardware space so they could offer a truly unencumbered OS for current Android handset makers. Why not make that announcement at the same time then? That would have been interesting.

At best, they have created uncertainty. At worst, they have no clue what they are going to do with webOS. More likely, they are going to kill it. If something good manages to come from this situation it will be due to dumb luck, not some brilliant master plan.
@Rich Miles - You said, "Microsoft alone has already had 1000+ (and counting) developers express interest in developing for WP7 instead." This is not exactly/necessarily correct. Erase the word "instead" and you will have an accurate statement. You have no idea how many people responded to that email out of interest in the offer to develop *also* for WP7, not to the exclusion of webOS necessarily. Additionally, a good number of those emails could also be due to developer interest who happened to see the tweet, but never developed with webOS at all, or spam, or... well, you get the point.

Additionally, your assertion that developers are abandoning ship is rather absurd. Since the firesale, app purchases have spiked exponentially. Devs are publicly stating their support positions, with some even announcing plans for new apps. It's way too early to predict what devs are going to do here, especially with such a rapidly-expanded user base.
@Rich Miles

microsoft's offer was so widely received because they initially offered to give a free phone. The caveat in their offer (in addition to seemingly being fairly informal) was the respondants were supposed to have a published app. That's a large caveat that would probably eliminate many who responded, though I don't know how you prove this given that HP doesn't seem to control the app / developer names as well as Apple.
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I viewed some WebOS forums yesterday (such as https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17510 ) - and at that time the postings seemed to indicate many thought further effort was hopeless. If you are interested, look around at https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewforum.php?f=21 for more discussion.
@tobeaman

I admit that my use of "instead' might not be entirely accurate, but I stand by the gist of my post that webOS developers are leaving. Only a fool would continue to develop for webOS under the current circumstances (outside of personal use).

Of course app purchases spiked. How long do you expect that to last? After the firesale devices have been delivered, the only direction app sales can go is down -- at least with no new hardware or partners.

Incidentally, here is an unscientific poll from the webOS forums (arguably, the most fanatical supporters) stating that only 64% of developers are "staying".

https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=17539
@Peter Perry

Build a Developer and user base it's the side effect of the big sell out that will cost HP millions to compensate. If HP really wanted to have a big community then why they don't just lowered their prices and keep the support?. That would be a better way to spread the system.
@RenzoAC Support would be a cost center, not a revenue generating machine. By killing support it will in some way offset the loss due to the price reduction.
I've put money away for my webOS printer, webOS desktop, and three webOS laptops. Still hoping a webOS(slab) phone is in the future. Loving my 32GB(82GB with Box) Touchpad, that now has cost me only $99.00 with all credits and discounts. Will have interactive QuickOffice by the end of the week. I'm stoked, baby!!
@Detfan I have this really, really cool computer for you, it even works on your TV. It is great. It's only $299 for a limited amount of time. I know you have heard of it, people all agree that it is great. It's called Amiga.
This is the first article I've read suggesting this is an elaborate gambit by HP. Given their blunders with WebOS so far, it is difficult to accept they are doing this on purpose. Certainly anyone who uses WebOS for any length of time recognizes it is better than anything else out there. If HP is scheming for an advantage, part of the plan requires consumers play with WebOS. Under the current conditions, although some users are buying, it appears more marketeers are snapping up stock for perceived resale value. Would this sabotage HP's plan?
@michaelfish I'm not suggesting some gambit, but this appears to be the plan HP is falling into---intentionally or not who knows.
They should just kill it off. Nobody will take it after what HP did.
@Cylon Centurion - Nobody? Hmmm... about 250,000 nobodies are scarfing it up like it's candy.
@tobeaman but there are already people committed to getting Android on these tablets. People arent buying because its got WebOS on it, they are buying because its cheap. Not everyone will switch over, but I think just having the possibility, with an already mature dev base for Android, limits what WebOS does from here.
@tobeaman Exactly. If there was ever a time to be a developer for WebOS here is a money making opportunity. As for the people wanting to use them to put Android on them, I think this is obviously a notion from people who have yet to try WebOS. they will quickly find it is a much more polished, intuitive and better working mobile OS and that putting on Android would be be a step backwards. only thing would be the apps.
@tobeaman Forget about putting Android on a Touchpad. I want to be able to put WebOS on the forthcoming Lenovo Tablet with 1GB ram, encryption and 720p. sad
@tobeaman Honestly I don't know what they are thinking. Let's look at this logically;

I can buy a TouchPad for ?89
I can buy Archos Android Tablet for ?99

So for an extra ?10 I can get a machine who's OS is still being developed, or one where my best hope is that someone will be able to shoehorn Android onto it.

I don't like those odds. But would I buy either? Well the mere fact that I walked past both of these deals today with more than enough ?'s in my pocket should answer that question.

Me? I'd put the money toward an iPad 2.
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Interesting...
tobeaman 23rd Aug
Thank you for the article--consolidated a lot of what's already out there into something that is a little more logical. Interesting, though, that there was no mention of smart phones in the article--only tablet prospects (and PCs, of course). Seems to me the licensing would come much sooner for phones than for tablets. Maybe I'm missing something.

PS: As a quick aside, and my public service to ZDNet... I'm not sure whether your writers have a style guide, but please reference webOS properly. First, the correct spelling is "webOS"--lower case w-e-b, upper case O-S. Second, it's simply "webOS", not "the webOS" (as in, "HP owns webOS", not "HP owns the webOS"). I know, I know, the world has too many grammer police. As a fellow writer, I'm just trying to do my part and help make the world a more readable place. happy
@tobeaman "grammar"! I know, I know, the world has too many spelling police.
Are these discontinued devices actually selling at the "fire sale" price?

If true, it means Android will dominate once it is profitable for device makers at this or an even lower price point.
@wkulecz,
"Are these discontinued devices actually selling at the "fire sale" price?"
My god, are you living under a rock? Of course they're selling at the fire sale prices. However, I doubt that this will create many webOS devotees because (I'm guessing) 50% of the people buying are planning to put on an Android port when it is complete. The rest are planning to use the browser (as in webapps instead of native apps).

As was stated in a ZDNet article a couple of weeks ago, the majority of people who have pad devices don't actually need them. I have been holding off until the prices were low enough. Well, the price of this one is low enough, if I can find one. The Android port will come soon enough.

FTH
Since HP's tactics with their disabling inkjet printers by use of a TIMER, not an ink level detection, and then disabling even B&W printing due to a assumed low color cartridge SCREW THEM,,they are on my NEVER BUY LIST ..Ethics are non existent so keep all your crap HP we don't need you in the American Marketplace !! I didn't even buy your crappy $100 pad, why would I buy anything you want to screw me on ??!!??!
NEVER BUY-
Android, Verizon, Sprint, Netgear, Best Buy, Microsoft, HP,Roomba, Extended warranties, Sony, Samsung, Horrible Watch Condos Mason, Ford, GM, Warner Cable, Cincy Bell Telephone , Medco, Anthem, Humana, Verizon, Toshiba, Amazon, Sweeney anything
AVOID BUYING-
Staples, Furniture Fair,
@bfriskey
Where is Apple,you surely must have them at the top of your list!
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I won't ever trust HP again.
FreeloaderFred 23rd Aug
A company that leaves you stuck with orphan equipment is not worth the powder to send it past the moon.
This is where I drop them - forever. HP used to be a great company with great equipment. Bye-bye!
HP has no master plan. If they said we are having a fire sell to get our product out an into the hands of the world fine I understand that. That shows confidence in the their product while acknowledging there lagging position in the market. But what they have done is quit the opposite. Status is the perfect analogy for what has happened to webOS. It wasn't killed it was just made to look dead.
HP must think their customers are stupid. I just received a newsletter from HP touting the Veer! Such arrogance! Well, here's ONE Customer [soon to be FORMER, if HP does not step up to the plate with their plans very quickly] feels about HP:
1) Without an IMMEDIATE statement, HP is now in the category of NOT TO BE TRUSTED!
2) I do not buy ANYTHING, phones, PCs, printers, et al, from such a vendor. There are too many other vendors with excellent products.
3) While I really do NOT WANT to abandon webOS, they are forcing me into that decision. I have been waiting very patiently for a Pre 3 from Verizon. It WAS going to be a package deal: A Pre 3 AND a TouchPad.
4) I do need a new phone. And, I will likely do something soon; certainly before the end of the year. I will NOT WAIT "12 to 18 months" for a strategy from HP. It is NOW OR NEVER! Two in my family have already abandoned the Pre for 'Droids. Based on their experience, I'm likely to follow. The only thing I can guarantee is that it will NOT be a Widoze phone; and unlikely to be an iPhone. Not much choice left is there?
5) I am also looking at possible upgrades and/or replacements for a couple of HP printers. Again, as it stands today, they will NOT be HP products.
6) It was announced that webOS V2.x is now being shipped OTA for Pre Plus devices on Verizon. Mine has not arrived yet; even with multiple checks for availability. I don't know if it is HP or VZW who is at fault. But, this is just one more FAILURE TO PERFORM on HP's part.

As to a question posed above about why such a good product as webOS has not made it, the answer is NOT a problem with the product. It is a problem with HP MANAGEMENT and their TOTAL INEPT MARKETING of the product. Reminds me of IBM's "failure" with OS/2. OS/2 is still a better user interface than Windoze will ever be; has better tasking; etc. IBM just blew the job of marketing the product. BTW, in case anyone cares, OS/2 still lives on via an IBM OEM agreement as eComStation...

Frankly, at this point, it appears that, unlike IBM's exit from the PC hardware business, HP is likely doomed to the junk heap of failed corporations. Clearly, investors seem to feel the same, based on the HPQ stock price lately.
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... it tells us that there is a lot of pent-up demand for tablets - but not for $500! Consumers willing to pay $500 for these devices will nearly always by Apple's iPad but the firesale demonstrated clearly that there are lots of consumers who will buy a tablet - at the right price. $99 - to $129 was clearly the right price last weekend but would the HP Touchpad have been a viable product for HP at $249? Perhaps so!

Apple's competition cannot expect much success at Apple's price-points but cut a couple hundred dollars off Apple's prices and competitors have something to offer consumers that Apple just can't.
bargain.

Above that, people would not be buying and they'd keep doing whatever they do with their PCs. At a higher price point, people might as well go with the already high-priced iPads.
@mwagner@...
The viable price point you quote is less than the hardware price,so definitely not viable to sell at that price.
so the same can be done with tablets.

It's all about figuring out a way to subsidize the tablets, and gain back the cost and get profits through data plans and other "lock-in" features which bring in the revenue.
Using my Foghorn Leghorn voice:

"HP? Plan? I made a funny! A ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..."
My prediction, Amazon swoops in to subsidize the continuing production of Touchpads at 99.00 retail, sells a hundred million of them at that price, and destroys the competition (including what will suddenly be an overpriced iPad). Amazon already has cloud services, movies and music, and the obviously gigantic library of Kindle books. Why not invest a couple hundred bucks loss on a Touchpad when you'll make ten times that through apps and digital content?
If HP has any sense left, they should look long and hard at the developing hacks of all those many Touchpads that they so graciously sold at far below cost to so many techies. There just might be an idea there or two....
South Korea says, "To hell with them, let's build our own"
Posted By TelecomTV One , 23 August 2011 | 0 Comments | [0 people rated this an average of 3/5] [0 people rated this an average of 3/5] [0 people rated this an average of 3/5] (0)
Tags: Samsung South Korea Android OS

With Samsung caught up in the Apple/Google crossfire it's hardly surprising if the Korean government thinks there's got to be a better way. So it's going to build a Korean OS. By Ian Scales.

According to reports from Korea's Chosun Ilbo website, the Korean government has decided to develop an 'open' web-based OS to rival Google's Chrome OS. It plans to work with Korean companies such as Samsung and LG to ensure that Korea builds a strong position in the emerging cloud industries and it thinks OS control is the way to get there.

"We will forge ahead in developing a new kind of operating system, which is being seen as a next-generation product, in order to build the kind of advantage we do not enjoy in the market for smartphones and tablet PCs, which is dominated by Google and Apple," said Kim Jae-hong, deputy minister at the Ministry of Knowledge Economy, on Monday.

If the consumer IT world is splitting itself into rival ecosystems it's hardly surprising that the Korean government thinks ecosystem-fostering is a game it could play too - and play well. The Korean government has a long history of close involvement, indeed of directly fostering, its big industrial players.
Advertisement
This is the so-called Chaebol phenomenon: a South Korean form of family business conglomerate largely developed through governmental support and finance.




Having fostered the Chaebol the South Korean government has recently had to watch helplessly as one of its lead players, Samsung, has been buffeted by the legal wrangling of two US companies and a slew of patent and copyright suits culminating most recently in a provisional European ban for the Samsung Galaxy Tab (see - Galaxy Bar: Apple slaps injunction on Samsung's Tab in Europe).


Reports say the government plans to target its OS development at PCs and laptops first and then if/when that's successful the venture will expand its new OS range to include smartphones and tabs.

The government claims Korea's own OS will be an open model accessible to all.

So how effective will a deep-pocketed government ministry be at fending off patent attacks? If it can somehow pool all the country's IP, if might be very effective indeed.
With this fire sale, HP may have just opened the floodgates for a whole new demographic to enter the tablet market and ecosystem. Lots of Americans who couldn't previously afford a tablet, or were discouraged from buying the cheaper Android tablets due to the fragmented ecosystem and sketchy manufacturers, were in line to pick one of these up. (I met some while standing in line to get mine.) These are also people who aren't necessarily tech-savvy like most readers on this site, so even those cheaper Android tablets may have seemed intimidating to use.
I'd say that some analysis of this expanded user base (along with their spending habits in this arena) may now influence the value of the sell-off. Y'know, along with the patents. Then again, they may simply be used as inexpensive digital picture frames (better resolution, more capacity, and cheaper than other available frames)...
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HP has a plan?
rmhesche 23rd Aug
Spin off the PC unit in 12~18 months?

That will take us past the warranty period of our HP laptop, and our next PC/Lap buying cycle should be well past this period so things should shake out and stabilize by then.

So for now this is an amusement, a show.

What gets me is about a decade ago we had two HPs and they were garbage. Both were returned for refunds. Put me off the HP thing.

Not long ago Wife got a lower line HP, a G-42. Hate to say for what it is and what it cost I was thinking of looking at HP again.

Not now.

I guess if HP has a plan, for me that plan is looking to be a plan of shaking consumer confidence and trust.

Thats no way to run a company.
After the stunt that HP pulled, I can't see consumers willing to spend more then $99 for HP devices.
The bit that amused me was: "a lot more people know about WebOS than they did just a week ago." Well, a lot more people know about Anders Behring Breivik than they did just a month ago, but no-one is looking to hire him as a youth worker! Someone should explain to whatever passes for a PR department at HP that it's not the column inches that count, but the message in them.

And while we're discussing jobs, I wouldn't even hire Apotheker to run my bath - even if the instructions were written on the wall in 72pt Helvetica. Nothing about this episode suggests there's even the hint of a plan in place. There's even less evidence of what any sane person would describe as competent management anywhere near the top of HP.

As for the suggested plan, it's only in science fiction that things are kept on life support until a cure can be found for whatever ails them. But we know what's wrong with WebOS, it was kidnapped from a dysfunctional family 12 months ago and suffocated, left virtually brain dead, and only superficially alive on a heavily discounted tablet wearing a discredited brand. There is no cure now, and there will be even less chance of one working in 12-18 months time.

The best thing they can do is fire Apotheker, break up the company and give the money back to the shareholders.
Huh?
Potential ecosystem for the mobile OS on PCs and printers?
Larry, you just made it up, right?
Hello, this is 2011, not 1851.

Stasis is suicide.

Must have been a quiet news day ...
I will camp by the wayside to watch HP go down in flames while the crowd cheers them on!
Maybe a better approach is just stash my untouched laptops/desktops and wait for value as collectibles. wink
Hell, WebOS has *been* in stasis since they announced they weren't going to put WebOS v2 on the original Pre and since they decided to skip version 2 and move on to version 3 for the TouchPad. It's been a long bumpy ride. It's killing WebOS. Dead.

Seriously, at this point the only thing that will revive it (and I'm not so sure about this any more) is to Open Source it and let the hobbyists play with it. Then it becomes an underground movement - an anti-Android if you will.
adornoe@...

"Are you that dense?"

No, but I suspect you might be.

"Nothing I said mentioned the cost of production of the TouchPads or even the iPads."

That's because you failed to take that vital statistic into account before typing. It's the most useful number in this discussion because it's the very lowest production cost anyone could ever achieve.

"What I did say is that, the ideal price at which people will bite and create a bigger market for tablets, is somewhere between $99 and $199."

Even if this was true [and it isn't], so what? Just because some people are only prepared to pay "somewhere between $99 and $199" doesn't mean it will "create a bigger market for tablets". It just means some people are either rich enough to throw away "somewhere between $99 and $199", or too stupid to realise that they're throwing away "somewhere between $99 and $199" on a device that won't EVER be supported or updated.

What these sales of HP TouchPad webOS tablets have done is temporarily satisfy a portion of the market for Android and possibly other NON iOS devices. In 6 months time, they will be bricks - worth less than $10. No self-respecting company would ever consider selling them. Why? Because if Apotheker thinks he's taking flack for damaging HP's reputation now, it's nothing compared to the hit he'll take when ebay is full of them.

"And, if you check my comments again, I mention that, one way for a manufacturer to gain marketshare is to subsidize their tablets and then to figure out a way to lock-in those users while trying to regain the value of the tablets elsewhere."

"That tactic has actually been used in the past, and one notable example is with the PS3, where Sony was losing money on the technology but were willing to do so with the expectation of building a user base and infrastructure that would pay off in the end. Microsoft did the same with the Xbox, where they were losing billions while hoping to recoup those losses at a future time when users became addicted and locked-in to the whole XBox echo-system."

This is as ludicrous as the other comments. How on earth can ANY company do that? Yes, Microsoft and Sony do subsidize their games platforms - and make no money from it. But that's games. The tablet device business model has already been defined. Or do you believe water flows UP-HILL? Anyone can build a business model that makes no money. But why would you? Especially in a market where Apple has already created an ecosystem that people willingly use - indicating there's no buyer resistance.

There's simply no way to monetize enough GUARANTEED after market activity with an all new ecosystem, that could even come close to covering the full cost of manufacture, never mind realize a margin. And you don't go into business and try "to figure out a way to lock-in those users" and get them "addicted" anymore. That's so 20th century.

Remember iTunes started in April 2003. Android is trying to mimic iTunes, and MS is no doubt going to try but these are reactive, copycat models with no new ideas, and neither will make any money for years. More importantly, they certainly won't make a penny for any OEMs. Expecting another OEM - other than its creator Palm, to adopt a crippled OS and even consider such a lunatic venture is to be in denial of reality. Get used to it, MS paid HP to kill webOS. HP, due to accounting measures [needed to offset losses over several Qs], will do nothing with webOS for 12-18 months. webOS is therefore dead.

MS is currently teaming up with companies to take on Apple and Google. Nokia: for mobile phones, HP: for cloud services - hence the new all service company direction. MS need to clean the decks to reduce buyers' options. So RIM will be the next to be targeted.

"So, why not try to engage your brain a bit, and perhaps you'll start thinking that, not every project needs to run a profit right off the drawing table."

That's precisely what I did. Only I did it back in April 2010 when I predicted - on here, that the HP/Palm venture would fail. I was the only one who did. I've been in business for 35 years. I've studied in depth the direction the tech industry has been going since 2000. I develop software for platforms. Back in '06 when Jack Bauer used the Palm Pilot in '24', I liked the company. But a long time before HP bought them, I didn't consider them viable anymore, thanks mainly to some awful internal decisions, a lack of vision, direction, or anything that looked like a business model.

Now, even though you didn't deserve it - for being so rude, you've just had a valuable business lesson.

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