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Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King
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HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple

By | December 19, 2011, 2:37pm PST

Summary: Apple secured another victory over an Android mobile OEM foe, but there might not be a loser in this battle after all if HTC does its homework.

Apple has won another battle over patent infringement on mobile devices. This time the loser is HTC, but there may be away for this mobile device manufacturer to get around the mess.

According to the latest ruling from the United States International Trade Commission, HTC infringes upon “data tapping patents,” which covers platforms that takes formatted data to basic documents for sharing and integrating that data on other applications.

Thus, the ITC has ruled in favor of banning HTC-made Android products that include this feature. But if that feature is dropped or revamped in some way, then the ban doesn’t really do anything for Apple.

FOSS Patents’ Florian Mueller explains that there is some wiggle room for both HTC and Google here if they act quickly:

If Google can implement this popular feature, which users of modern-day smartphones really expect, without infringing on the two patent claims found infringed, this import ban won’t have any effect whatsoever.

Otherwise HTC will have to remove this feature, which would put HTC at a competitive disadvantage as compared to other smartphone makers, including other Android device makers.

If/until that happens, the ITC is waiting until April 19, 2012 to instill the ban in order to provide a transition period for U.S. carriers.

After that, HTC customers won’t be abandoned entirely as the ITC is allowing HTC to import refurbished devices for serving as replacements under warranty or insurance until December 19, 2013.

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Topics

Phone, Patent, HTC Corp., Apple Inc., Android Phone Patent, Phone Patent, Telecom & Utilities, Rachel King

Rachel King is a staff writer for ZDNet based in San Francisco.

Disclosure

Rachel King

Rachel King has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted in this blog.

Biography

Rachel King

Rachel King is a staff writer for CBS Interactive in San Francisco. Before serving as a contributing editor at ZDNet in New York City for two years, she previously worked for The Business Insider, FastCompany.com, CNN's San Francisco bureau and the U.S. Department of State. Rachel has also written for MainStreet.com, Irish America Magazine and the New York Daily News, among others. Rachel has a B.A. in Mass Communications and History from the University of California, Berkeley and a M.S. in Journalism from Columbia University, where she served as art director for the student magazine, Plated.

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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
gbrowerjr 22nd Dec
@johnsuarez10
Thats a lot of devices! Its no wonder their market share is so high in smartphones!... wait...errrr...3rd place...nevermind
View in thread
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
Peter Perry 19th Dec
So Apple knows they cannot compete against the Android based handsets and their choice is to find little patents that they can use to Limit Android.

I think they really need to remember these things do come back to haunt them!
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh 20th Dec
@Peter Perry... Oh what crap. Apple like any other company has an obligation to protect it's IP through litigation on patents. This is also why companies like Nokia, MSFT, Motorola, Nikon, all sue each other when they believe the other company has infringed on their patent.

It is a civil matter, and in most cases, the matter is usually settled outside of court with some undisclosed cross licensing deal, because often in the end it is cheaper to settle with a cross licensing deal than it is to litigate it. Often time the whole litigation processes is just a means for the party with the better patent portfolio to get better licensing terms.

None of this has anything to do with Karma or things coming back to haunt them.
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
NetAdmin1178 20th Dec
@Snooki_smoosh_smoosh

"Apple like any other company has an obligation to protect it's IP through litigation on patents" - So Apple is protecting "their" IP, which is effectively the equivalent to hyperlinks. WOW, never knew Apple was the inventor of the hyperlink. Have you even bothered to research this patent the slightest bit before given your biased remark, fanbois?

What Apple is doing is attempting to subdue competition through worthless patents issued by an uninformed patent office. This patent should not have ever been issued considering its relation to prior art. (BTW, Apple did NOT invent the hyperlink; they just managed to convince the patent office they invented the equivalent of it.)
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
johnsuarez10 20th Dec
@Peter Perry
Yeah they can't compete...Your right 200+million IOS devices. You sir are a moron.
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
gbrowerjr 22nd Dec
@johnsuarez10
Thats a lot of devices! Its no wonder their market share is so high in smartphones!... wait...errrr...3rd place...nevermind
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apple is doomed!
The Linux Geek 19th Dec
The people are rising and exposing the con artists from apple the same as they expose M$ FUD: http://techrights.org/2011/12/19/microsoft-infiltrators-vs-gpl/
The axis of evil software has its days numbered!
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
K B Updated - 19th Dec
@The Linux Geek My guess is that Apple and Microsoft are colluding to try to take out Android. They're worried about Android's meteoric success and doing anything they can to slow it down. Funny how we don't see Apple suing Skype for the same patent violation.

Also funny how only one of four patents even had any merit in this lawsuit. Apple should have to pay HTC for them having to defend against the three bogus claims. The surviving patent will get thrown out due to prior art, just like BT's hyperlink patent did a decade ago.

Apple should wash their hands clean of these patent lawsuits before they soil their name too much. This is an ugly road they're going down. They should have learned a lesson when iPhones and iPads got banned in Europe recently. If the patent suits don't stop soon, it's going to go thermonuclear.
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We've constantly been told that only Samsung is in Apple's sights
toddybottom 19th Dec
The Apple fanbois continually tell us that only Samsung needs to be banned and that Apple cares deeply about competition, it just wants to ban Samsung because only Samsung slavishly copied Apple.

Last I checked HTC was not Samsung and yet Apple has successfully banned HTC.

Apple will clearly not rest until they've banned the products of every single competitor. A lot of Apple fanbois look very foolish today with this announcement. They've been caught in their own lie.
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
anono 19th Dec
@toddybottom
You will know Apple has banned all other competitors through the courts or anti-competitive means when they have 90%+ of the market share. And you'll know Apple fanbois exist if people continue to support them despite having 90%+ market share and being proved in courts to be an illegal monopolist.

Funny that's kind of like you and Windows.
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Apple is just TOYING with them
Davewrite Updated - 19th Dec
even before the monster selling 4S Apple already makes 50-66% (depending which analyst you quote) of the world's cell phone profits of the top 8 makers. And that includes both smart and dumb phones. So Apple already makes near twice all the Androids, Blackberries, Win , Nokia etc smart phones PUT TOGETHER.

(and that's not even counting iPad, iAd, App store etc revenues)
Apple makes 50 times more profit off mobile than Google does off android.

Win patent suits or not Apple is already chewing them up. Apple is just toying with them, with $80b in the bank it can simply keeping fighting for it's patent rights against companies like HTC.

to give an idea how big apple is: Amazon's (the famous producer of the Kindle Fire) last quarter net profit was $63 million. Apple just gave each of it's senior VP's 150,000 share bonus i.e at current rate worth around $60m each, i.e each VP got a bonus equal to Amazon's entire net profit for a quarter.

with it's Gigantosaurus size lead in $$$ Apple can litigate, out R&D, out manufacture , out market all the android etc out there. Litigation is just one small part of the battle plan.

all the 'Apple is doomed against android' articles, posts -- and people saying apple is going for lawsuits because it's losing - -etc are near hilarious if you compare it with actual stats , it's like guy with a pea shooter (android) vs a Abrams Tank saying " the tank is doomed, see it's stopped after I shot at it!". the only reason the tank is stopped is cause the driver is laughing too hard to drive.
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
Dare2C 19th Dec
@Davewrite - It wasn't that log ago that Big Blue was dominating computer world and was dismissing PCs as a toy. And not much after that M$ Gates has dismissed internet not realizing it's potential. Do you think the Apple dominance will last forever? And if - because it's a better product?! And it won't be long before your Abrams Tanks will make laugh the Chinese commanders on a battlefield - same way your financial situation makes laugh the Chinese dictatorship...all the way to the bank. They are toying with you now (using North Korea) sad I wonder....will you be so supportive of them controlling your real life as Apple is trying to control your digital/mobile experience? Shame on you for supporting a bully that Crapple is!
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
Davewrite 19th Dec
@Dare2C

lol.
how is apple controlling my mobile experience, by making superior products? and you all so happy supporting Google which is just interested in making ad money it doesn't even care to check if there's malware in it's own Android Market Place or many android oems who don't give OS updates for their phones? -- you guys are satisfied with THAT kind of mobile experience? lol.

as for the Big Blue dominating thing ... that's what people are saying about android market share. For apple here's an example: people having been saying they would knock apple off it's iPod Supremacy, these guys said it : Sony, Phillips, Dell, iRiver, Sandisk, Creative Nomad, Microsoft, HTC, Toshiba etc etc... against a much much smaller and weaker apple TEN YEARS ago. Didn't happen , ain't going to happen now. Absolutely no indication of rivals getting closer, instead the GAP is GETTING BIGGER as apple pulls ahead. The data center apple built to run Siri and iCloud etc in N. Carolina cost over $1 billion : most of the android manufacturers don't have net profits to afford that. Google is probably already making a net loss on Android, definite loss if Motorola deal goes through for 12.5 billion so is it going to keeping pumping cash into it?
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh Updated - 20th Dec
@Dare2C... Funny, free capitalism doesn't recognize bullies. What are you, some kind of Commie? wink Capitalism as practiced in the USA and elsewhere is a in it to win it venture. The company or person who can perform the task at the lowest amount of opportunity cost wins.

Apple is a great example of how a company can still be very profitable without having a monopoly in the market. Apple sells a product, in this case iDevices, Macs, etc., and does so in a way that allows them to maximize profit, again the name of the game. If they were just another Android handset maker, they would have to produce and sell on such small margins that it is very difficult to be very profitable, by controlling all aspects of their product they are able to maximize on it

You will never see a well built phone like the iPhone 4 series running Android or WP7, simply because their is no profit margin on a premium handset running Android. Yes I know some will argue about the build quality of the iPhone, so flame away...
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
gbrowerjr Updated - 22nd Dec
@Davewrite
This guy is the definition of a fanboy. "How is apple controlling my mobile experience"? Obviously retarded as well. Apple controls your entire mobile experience. For instance, change the theme on your iphone. You can't. Its locked down. Yes, apple has been knocked off their pedastals several times. It was near bankruptcy how many times now? Apple getting jobs back was the only thing that saved it. Now that he is gone.... "no indication of rivals getting closer..." What are you talking about. Apple has been surpassed in phones and their tablet share is hemorrhaging. Read maaaaan! "Google is probably already making a net loss on Android" Again back to the this guy is a retard statement. They can't afford $1b? Are you serious? You are a troll who contributes nothing but propaganda spread among the rest of the barristas at Starbucks.
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
gbrowerjr Updated - 22nd Dec
@Davewrite
That doesn't make you mad that they have such huge profit margins and you paid so much? Sure, let them keep spending money for frivolous suits. Apple has already got the attention of the EU which is looking at it for patent abuse. All of the preliminary injunctions have been overturned except for maybe the netherlands. I haven't checked. The sales ban against HTC is worthless and appealable. But HTC won't bother its easily worked around. What Gigantosaurus size lead are you referring to? Not smartphone market share. Tablet? that is shrinking daily. Or do you mean leading in the area of pending lawsuits? A pea shooter vs. an abrams tank? Are you refering to lawsuits again? Cause it sure isn't market share or winning lawsuits/injunctions. They found in favor of apple on one meaningless infringement out of four. You could say HTC won 3 out of 4 in that case.
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
Sultansulan 19th Dec
Apple the is the biggest patenttroll.

Android was before Iphone
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
Davewrite Updated - 19th Dec
@Sultansulan

lol.
this is how Google envisioned it's google phone to be before it copied Apple. Even google engineers admit it: the original google phone was built to imitate the blackberry with lots of buttons.

http://news.cnet.com/2300-1037_3-6230132.html

iOS is based on MacOSX which has more than 20 year history. Andy Rubin head of android use to work for apple on projects that became iOS. Schmidt was on Apple's board and was booted out, he took iOS ideas to change Google's Blackberry clone (stolen from Rim?) into Android. Android is facing lawsuits from LOTS of people besides apple, the list includes Microsoft, Oracle, British Telecom etc. Internal emails from Rubin etc show that he was worried about the code they were copying without permission. The fact that they have already lost lawsuits and HTC is for example paying microsoft etc shows that Android is a pastiche of piracy, copying and based on no care of others patent rights. (I'm not going to bother with links, go 'google' it all yourself).
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
chipbeef 20th Dec
@Davewrite And Android is based on Linux, which SHARES THE SAME BASIC heritage - Unix.

FAIL.
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
Davewrite Updated - 20th Dec
@chipbeef

what has android based on linux got anything I wrote?

you mean android is no different from any other linux code?

google didn't write new code, new functionality to it?

fact is whatever they did they violated a lot of patents: that's why they are having their pants sued by (at last count) something like half a hundred major lawsuits. they tagged on blocks of copyrighted code and other stuff to android.

example from an article about an internal Google email between Android boss Rubin and Lindholm (an engineer):
"Lindholm had written to Andy Rubin, the Google vice-president in charge of the Android operating system, that he'd checked out technical alternatives to Java, "and think they all suck," the email said. "We conclude that we need to negotiate a license for Java under the terms we need... Google, of course, didn't negotiate a license, which is why Oracle soon thereafter filed its sweeping suit"

get that? Rubin knew they were violating patents and needed to get a license but Google didn't bother BUT JUST USED THE CODE without permission.

that's just one example.

link http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/Legal/News/2011/11_-_November/Oracle_v__Google_and_the_most_relentlessly_litigated_email_ever/
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
DonRupertBitByte Updated - 20th Dec
@Davewrite

It is not a fact that Google violated any Java patents yet. You can just fantasize all you want until the lawsuit goes to trial this February though since you have a need to hate Google for providing an successful commercial alternative to the iPhone though.
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
gbrowerjr 22nd Dec
@Davewrite
You again. Shouldn't you be searching for the worst pictures you could find to try to prove an invalid point? The phone pictured was on a blackberry type phone which was popular at the time. It was also on several other different types of phones to show that it could be run on many different models. The screen in the background shows a few. I'm not even gonna bother with the rest of your statements. I am done with you.
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Surely the patent should have run out...
wright_is 20th Dec
This technique was in common use back in the early 80s, when I started programming, so if Apple have patented it, they must have done it back in the 70s, otherwise it would have been kicked out due to prior art. That should mean that the patent has expired?

Or is it like the US PTO allowing chemical companies to re-patent 100 year old "common remedies" and stop chemists and pharmacies, which have been making them for decades, from continuing the practice?
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It's not what you do, but HOW you do it that gets patented
baggins_z 20th Dec
For some reason, this really simple concept seem incomprehensible to a certain portion of the population.
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
gbrowerjr Updated - 22nd Dec
@wright_is
Just another patent that should never have been granted in the first place. It is easy enough to work around. It didn't violate the patent as a whole but rather two parts of the patent I believe. The patent in question was from 1996 I think. There has been various reports of prior art but I don't care to research it. Patents of this type are good for 17 years.
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Apple has the right to protect its IP - Next stop Google
oraman 20th Dec
I don't own a single Apple and can tell you emphatically that I never will, but I stand by its right to protect its IP. Now is time for some company to take down google with all its IP stealing.
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
DonRupertBitByte 20th Dec
@oraman

What has Google 'stolen' that has been proven in a US court?

FAIL
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
gbrowerjr 22nd Dec
@DonRupertBitByte
It is impossible to build anything that doesn't infringe on someones IP. Apple itself fends off or pays off companies that it infringes upon. So does every other company in the tech industry. I personally think that standard features should be viewed much like frand items. Licensed on fair and reasonable terms amongst each other like most other mature electronics. Some say iOS stole google's notification center. RIM actually had a crude version first but it was an innovation they created and should be compensated for but should also be allowed to be used in other platforms. Can you imagine if the company that holds the patent on 3g technology was allowed to horde it for themselves and their products alone?
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
NetAdmin1178 20th Dec
@oraman
Have you looked into this "IP" your protecting? - It's the equivalent of hyperlinks.

It's one thing to protect a novel invention; it's another to patent a widely used concept as your own, then litigate against others using it.
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
johnsuarez10 20th Dec
Funny how the title of this article is "HTC still has a chance". If it was Apple on the losing end the title would be "Apple is doomed". Many bloggers are biased against Apple.
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RE: HTC still has a chance after losing ITC ruling to Apple
gbrowerjr 22nd Dec
@johnsuarez10
I would say the other way around. Also, if it was a knockout blow it would be one thing. But its not. Its a worthless ruling. 3 of the 4 patents apple tried to enforce failed. This is the best they could do. It is easily worked around, only affects outdated phones, and doesn't take affect any time soon. I would have said something more along the lines of "Apple wins case...sort of?"

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