Mac prices: Bargains to some, still too high for others
Summary: Lauren would have felt so uncool at yesterday's Worldwide Developer's Conference keynote speech. You remember Lauren, right?
Lauren would have felt so uncool at yesterday's Worldwide Developer's Conference keynote speech. You remember Lauren, right? She was the gal in the Microsoft commercial who actually wanted to buy a Mac but had to walk out of Apple store when she discovered there was no 17-inch laptop there for under $1,000.
Sure, the 17-inch Macs are a better bargain this week than they were last week - a more powerful machine that's $300 cheaper. But no, Lauren, it's still not under $1,000. The 17-inch is down to $2,499.
You see, when it comes to Macs and PCs, pricing is a relative thing. At the developer's conference yesterday, I'd swear that I heard gasps of delight among the cheers as Marketing VP Phil Schiller announced the price for the 13-inch Macbook Pro (note the "Pro" in the name) could be yours for $1,199. (Did you hear the gasps?)
Mac owners have had a taste of something better in computing and understand that there's a premium price that must be paid to get that something better - and they're willing to pay. Sure, you could probably pick up two Windows machines (17-inch machines, at that) for the same $1,199 - but there's an old saying about getting what you pay for (cough cough... Windows.)
Here we are in an historic economic slump and companies across a number of sectors are trying to find that magic number that will bring customers back without compromising too much of the bottom line. Today's pricing announcement is Apple's way of saying that it's no different.
Of course, some of you might think that Macs are still over-priced, but these are bargain prices for the technology that Apple is putting into these machines - 7 hour batteries, all of that RAM and the performance graphics card. Yes, $1,199 is a bargain.
And I'm not the only one who thinks so. My colleague Andrew Nusca, in a blog post yesterday, said, "...it's cheaper than ever to buy a Mac." and even one his readers chimed in by saying, "...those prices are sweet. And VERY competitive."
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Talkback
Prices went back to normal
and prices still FAR too high...
Mac Pro 17" with modest Core 2 Duo CPU, 4GB RAM, 500GB hard drive, NVidia 9600M graphics 512MB - $2499.00.
Gateway P-7805u 17" with modest Core 2 Duo CPU, 4GB RAM, 320GB Hard drive, NVidia 9800M GT graphics 1GB (2+x as fast as 9600M) $1089.99
I could literally buy 2 of the Gateway gaming laptops for the price of one 17" Mac and have a few hundred dollars left over for more software. Plus, her games on the Gateway would blow away the same games played on the Mac.
An aluminum body is only worth so much guys and that doesn't even include the copy of Windows I'd have to install in order for her to run most of the programs she wants to run.
Yes, the battery is better on the Mac, but she's nearly always going to have it on her desk at home. And that battery is NOT worth $1400 extra to me, especially for a lower performance computer. I could buy half a dozen extra batteries for the Gateway and still have money left over.
Bottom line = Until the high-end Mac laptops come to within a few hundred dollars of equivalent PC hardware, they'll simply never dominate the market. If money is no object, sure, go buy one. They look and feel great. But they are definitely not a "value" when you can buy TWO of an equivalent Windows laptop for less.
You Forgot a couple of things.
1) Office 2007 Standard (since this is a pro type of machine, it should have a full
featured office) @ $399.99
2) Anti-Virus/Internet Security Package: Norton Anti-Virus 2009 @
$39.99x3=$119.95 (for the life of the laptop which on estimate is 3 years)
3) 3-Year Extended Warranty@ $199.99
This adds up to $719.93 in additional software to be productive.
Also, your laptop does not have:
Web Site Creation software
Music Editing Software
Advanced Video Editing software
DVD mastering Software
If these were needed, the cost would skyrocket to over $1500.
So I'll call it at $1500.
This leaves your laptop at $2500 as an "equivalent" to a Mac.
On the Mac side.
1) Office for Mac@$149
2) 3 Year Warranty@$349
$498 in additional cost to the MacBook Pro.
$2997 for the MacBook Pro. $2500 for your Gateway machine.
Oh, and I left off some other things you don't get on your Gateway:
No MagSafe
No 7 Hour battery
No Unibody Aluminum case
Although I understand your basic argument, and on it's face it seems "legitimate" if
you dig deeper, you end up spending a lot more for that Gateway than you think,
and a Mac starts looking a lot more competitive. It's what I always warn people
about when buying the "specials" you find on Best Buy or Staples ads or websites.
you are the one that forgets
MAC is now and always has been the computer for the Want to be Eletists and Faux-lectuals (faux intiletcials). They are the same people that will plunk down $500.00 for a pair of tennis shoes just because some jo blow jock says he wears them.
Most of all MAC's are for L A Z Y!!! people that either do no or CAN NOT learn or can be bothered to take the time to learn about their machines. PC are now and always will be for those that want to LEARN about computers and want to take them apart and put them back together and want to creat something new for their self instead of waiting for the self described Apple Gods to create it for them.
dino
My granmother was "lazy?" Because she kept her rotary (that's "impulse" dialing, in case you weren't aware) for *years* instead of getting some fancy, schmancy digital/touch-tone/yadayada "modern" one with a "user manual" several pages thick?
You are either retarded, or clueless, or both.
My grandmother was not lazy. Neither was she stupid, like you apparently are. She simply enjoyed the good, old-fashioned *utility* of a device that was elegant in its simplicity and profound in its utility and longevity.
Something the average "smart" and "ambitious" ["gosh, if it's not complicated and prone to problems, it *can't* be good!"] PeeCee user can't appreciate.
Oh, another possibility? You are really stupid and you aren't really clueless = TROLL.
My bad for responding.
Speaking of disingenuous ...
To quote: <i>"Although I understand your basic argument, and on it's face it seems "legitimate" if you dig deeper..." </i>
<b>RE: 1) Office 2007 Standard </b>
That particular model comes with the 60-day free trial of Office Standard which can be upgraded to the Student edition for ~$100 (with current back-to-shool specials, $69.00) and the Standard edition for around $199.00 That's $200 less. And, that $149.00 price you list for Mac is for the Student edition. Standard [according to Apple's web site] is $399.00
<b>RE: 2) Anti-Virus/Internet Security Package</b>
There is no reason to bog down this machine with Symantec crap. The included security in Vista would be enough for most careful users, but if you feel the need for additional protection there are many better free options available.
Cost $0.00
<b>RE: 3) 3-Year Extended Warranty@ $199.99</b>
3 years of AppleCare $349.00 ... cheaper? *scratching head*
<b>RE:Also, your laptop does not have:</b>
<i>Web Site Creation software</i>
If you want to create a hobbyist website, you can do it right for MS Word, if you need something professional, you will need to buy a professional product, Mac or PC.
<i>Music Editing Software</i>
Audacity ... Free.
<i>Advanced Video Editing software</i>
And you have to pay $199.00 for Final Cut Express [NOT pro] with that Mac. There are many equal or better Video Editors for PC's for under $100.00
<i>DVD mastering Software</i>
Um, yes it does.
So, if we accept all the options you want to include with both purchases, realistically you add ~$500.00 to the cost of the Gateway, and $950.00 for the Mac, making it even MORE expensive.
Now now, Lunatic!
so, which is it you are comparing?
"Until the high-end Mac laptops" the 17" MacBook Pro
PC ads must be working
Anyway, I got a huge kick out of this quote from your blog:
[i]there?s an old saying about getting what you pay for (cough cough? Windows.)[/i]
But Windows costs more than OS X. Substantially more. And you Apple folk constantly bring it up. So glad to hear you finally admit what 95% of the world has been saying for decades: Sure Windows is more expensive but there?s an old saying about getting what you pay for (cough cough? OS X.)
I won't even bring up the countless hours spent by you Apple folk trying to prove that Macs are cheaper than PCs because that would be cruel.
LOL. Well played.
He does have a talent (nt)
I was afraid the basement had flooded!
NonZealot. It is just not as much fun without the NZ POV.
Nice
And yes, Sam deserved this. Cough cough.
Nice One!
Anyways, if a Mac computer is so 'getting what you pay for product' then why reduce its price now? If nothing, Apple is telling us that they have been over-charging its customers until Redmond wardrums started rolling.
Even a blind can tell the price difference between a Mac and a PC. This article is baseless. There are so many PC manufactuers and this competition amongst them helps keep the prices low... This has always been a MS startegy and vision - to get a PC in every desk and it can be possible only with low prices.
On the other hand, Apple is the only Mac manufacturer, if it plans to reduce price without taking a profit hit they need to either increase Mac production output by themselves or do what beer/cola manufacturers do - have other franchises manufacture for you... the issue is that Apple is too busy to defend its niche by saying - i am better, cos i am pricier. They need to somehow reduce prices not just of their OS, but also the hardware they put into a Mac - I think many zdnet bloggers have already made this point.
Another contrast: MS is like Walmart of software business and it has helped partners like Dell grow... can't think of any big name that Apple has helped... they are filled with self.
Why price matters?
talking of relatively small absolute amounts of money. Let's assume for a while
that an Apple products costs $500 more than equivalent PC. And let's assume
that the useful lifetime is 3 years and the commercial value of the product
drops to zero after that time. That makes $14 more per month. Many of us
spend easily that amount on useless or even harmful stuff (smoke, booze, junk
food, ...). Besides, to my understanding, most writers on this and similar sites
are from USA which is the world's wealthiest nation. Is $10 - $20 per month
really an issue for the world's richest people? I am from Europe, from small,
cold and extremely expensive country with low salaries and $10 - $20 really
isn't an issue.
I am not trolling here, I really would like to have serious answers.
It all adds up
It's not quite that simple.
Consider, You can get a 17" HP laptop for around $700 and a 17" MacBook Pro for $2000. That means for the price of the MBP, you could buy *three* HPs. Or a laptop, a desktop and a really big monitor. Or a laptop, a desktop and some new clothes.
If the MacBook really was three times better than the HP, then yes, this would be a good value - but that's the core of this debate: ARE Macs worth the extra cost. If they are to you, then you should get one. That's YOUR personal price/value decision.
However, Mac fans regularly bring up surreal arguments to justify what to most PC users are either arbitrary value judgements (like "(cough cough Windows)") or out-right fabrications (Macs have 'better' quality components - when most of the components are essentially identical to the ones used in PCs).
You get things like "Macs last longer than PCs". Some yes but Apple is a major brand, so comparing them to "Ma and Pa's Home Computer Brand" is being disingenuous. I have IBM and HP laptops that have lasted over a decade. I have an iBook that I can't upgrade anymore because Apple has abandoned the CPU in it. It kind of works both ways.
What's particularly obnoxious is that rather than simply promoting the Mac on its strengths, Apple has encouraged bashing and attitude right from the beginning (I know - I was a Mac user and developer for a big chunk of that time).
THAT, more than anything else is what people are tired of.
This person is very correct
do you imply...
285% (approx.) higher than that of a HP 17 @ $700?
Not trolling, just want to know, thank you
On a very regular basis . . .
They love me.
And, if they made more money (you know, like an MCSE monkey getting rich *trying* to keep the Doze machines in the department fully functioning), they'd *gladly* ante up and get the latest Apple offerings because they . . . uh, after using, are *believers.*
It's no different than somebody who buys a *used* Mercedes and decides that --- at *any* price --- the *used* Mercedes is better than even the *newest* and *cheapest* Hyundai.
Really. I know people who are like that with cars. And more and more who are getting like that with computers.
But, what do I know? I don't check out the sales and quarterly numbers. Not interested. I'm out here, in the trenches in the *real* world with the *real* people who have *real* lives and --- in cases where they are "stuck" with Doze machines? --- *real* headaches.
Once I get one of my beat-up "loaner" iBooks into their hands for a weekend?
Game over. Fat Lady sings. They love the Macs. They love the experience. They love the functionality. They love the simplicity.
Ultimately, the price they end up paying for one of my used (4-6 yrs old) Mactops *may* be more than the price they'd pay for a 6-month old *new* PC laptop that has *depreciated* quickly whether it was "cheaper" to begin with, or not
So, whether *less* expensive when new, or not, or higher in value when used, or not, which computer do you think my friends/acquaintances/customers think is the best value?
Duh. It's the used Mac I put in their hands and let them *try* before they buy.
People that can afford the newest Macs? Good for them. I've owned *one* new Mac in my life --- and SE-30.
Every other one (including a 512E, which came out when some of you PeeCee Fanbois lurking here where in diapers) was used. Every one gave me value and utility that most *everyday* (Joe Sixpack and Suzy Q) Doze users can only dream about.
Unless they have an IT department or MCSE monkey at home (or in the college dorm) to keep their malware/bloatware/bitrotted monstrosity running *relatively* smoothly.