Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Sam Diaz, Andrew Nusca

"MSN, is anybody out there?"

By Phil Fersht | December 27, 2009, 2:46pm PST

Summary

What is giving me a major headache is the amount of vendors now relying purely on web-based support for all aspects of their product…

Topics

Blogger Info

Larry Dignan

Biography

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic. He was most recently Executive Editor of News and Blogs at ZDNet. Prior to that he was executive news editor at eWeek and news editor at Baseline. He also served as the East Coast news editor and finance editor at CNET News.com. Larry has covered the technology and financial services industry since 1995, publishing articles in WallStreetWeek.com, Inter@ctive Week, The New York Times, and Financial Planning magazine. He's a graduate of the Columbia School of Journalism and the University of Delaware.

For daily updates, follow Larry on Twitter.

Sam Diaz

Biography

Sam Diaz

Sam Diaz

Sam Diaz is a senior editor at ZDNet. He has been a technology and business blogger, reporter and editor at the Washington Post, San Jose Mercury News and Fresno Bee for more than 18 years. He's a member of the National Association of Hispanic Journalists and a graduate of California State University, Fresno.

Andrew Nusca

Biography

Andrew Nusca

Andrew Nusca

Associate Editor

Andrew J. Nusca is an associate editor for ZDNet and SmartPlanet. As a journalist based in New York City, he has written for Popular Mechanics and Men's Vogue and his byline has appeared in New York magazine, The Huffington Post, New York Daily News, Editor & Publisher, New York Press and many others. He also writes The Editorialiste, a media criticism blog.

He is a New York University graduate and former news editor and columnist of the Washington Square News. He is a graduate of the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism. He has been named "Howard Kurtz, Jr." by film critic John Lichman despite having no relation to him. A native of Philadelphia, he lives in New York with his fiancee and his cat, Spats.

Follow him on Twitter.

As an long-time analyst in the IT services business, I have always been focused on analyzing the  performance of vendors’ services staff when you need to call them.  Some still use their own inhouse support personnel for all support issues, but most outsource the “day-to-day” stuff to a third-party, and retain specialist staff inhouse to resolve complex or sensitive issues when they are escalated, such as when customers’ security has been compromised, or when the customer requires specialist attention the outsourcer cannot provide.

However, what is giving me a major headache is the amount of vendors now relying purely on web-based support for all aspects of their product.  I assumed web-only support was for low-risk, easy-to-resolve activities that can normally be dealt with by the FAQ page. However, this is clearly not the case with many vendors today.

Let’s take the biggest one out there - Microsoft - where I recently had personal experience using its support function for a security compromise with my Hotmail account, which i have been using since 1995 - and being charged around $30/year for quite some time now.

For the very first time in the electronic life I fell for a phishing scam a few days’ ago - yes, I’m an idiot, but it was one of those very convincing “verify your account to avoid it being closed” ones.  Plus, I picked up the note on my Blackberry, so it was hard to spot that it was a bogus scam.  To cut to the chase, my account was compromised, all my contacts were spammed with the usual “help, I’m stuck in Africa and need $1500 blah blah” story.  All my contacts were deleted, a lot of emails deleted and personal documents deleted.  So while I’ve been going through the pain of canceling all my credit cards, apologizing to all my contacts (some of whom actually did think I was stranded out in Africa), changing my security questions and passwords several times, the hackers were still somehow in my account deleting stuff.

So I’m calling Microsoft support lines and each time being sent to an automated messaging system informing me that “Hotmail support is web-only - please go there and submit a help ticket and we will respond to you within 24 hours”.  I did manage to get some guy on the phone, via a Microsoft support number, who tried to sell me some security software, but noone would help with my compromised security issues and lock the account.  I kept getting sent to an automated queue which told me “Hotmail support is web-only”.  I wanted my deleted information restored and some assurances that these hackers still couldn’t get into the account.

Anyhow, I’ve since submitted two help tickets urgently pleading for help - I even got the “reply to this message to verify that your email address is valid” message each time, and, eventually three days’ later I get an email from “Jon” pasting a load of “FAQs” into an email, which did not address the security compromise.   After several back an forths with “Jon”, I finally get the following message:

“Thank you for writing back to Windows Live Technical Support. I appreciate the time and effort that you took in sending us the required information to help you in retrieving your password. I recognize the importance of resolving this matter and I look forward to providing you with the necessary assistance.

“Currently, Windows Live ID only provides e-mail support to help our customers. We believe that to best serve the needs of all our members, our support system should be universally available through e-mail.

“If you are unable to find the specific issue you are having on the site provided, please follow the steps below:”

And I am directed to a Windows Live Community Q&A blog-site where I can post my issue and wait for “someone” to respond.  Now, four days’ later since the hacking (touch-wood), someone may decide to post an answer to my problems on this blog-site.  I have no idea what will transpire, and my hotmail account is now pretty much relegated to collected my daily offers from the Baby Gap and Borders…

Now, you would have thought that you could at least talk to someone when you’re being hacked and violated… even an online chat function would have been something.  Alas, after using the same old email address for 15 years, maybe it’s just time to shut the thing down and use a service where I know I can have some personal assistance for extreme matters such as this.  But are there any?  Is there anyone out there today who’ll support software packages for consumers, or is it only the corporate-accounts that warrant actual people on the line today?  I notice with Gmail, you can access a link entitled “My Account Has Been Compromised” in two simple clicks from ”Help”… hmm wonder if these guys help me out sooner than four days?

Talkback Most Recent of 57 Talkback(s)

  • Give me a break
    Phil is IT aanalyst and consultant and yet he's
    falling for the oldest phishing scam in the
    book? I must get 15 "verify your account to
    avoid it being closed" emails a week from
    various banks. It's hard to see how it could be
    "convincing."

    But that's water under the bridge. Phil, I
    suggest you drop hotmail and open an account
    with gmail, which does a fantastic job of
    screening out the spam before it ever reaches
    your inbox. (The phishing emails I get are at a
    different account that does a poor job of
    filtering out the spam.)
    ZDNet Gravatar
    ShowMeGrrl
    12/27/2009 03:22 PM
  • Gmail doesn't do all the great, either
    so he'd still fall for a phishing scam...
    ZDNet Gravatar
    Pliny the Elder
    12/27/2009 04:09 PM
  • actually,
    iv had a gmail account for two and a half years and ive only gotten five "spam" emails, which turned out to be from school and it wasnt actually spam, but that was resolved quickly. anyways, gmail does in fact do a great job with regards to spam. the other features you can play around with are neat too, but i usually leave them off. plus, it's free; sure as hell better than paying $30 for an email account every year.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    privatejarhead
    12/27/2009 04:23 PM
  • I get more spam in my gmail then in my hotmail.
    And When I needed Gmail's help they were almost useless too.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    jdbukis@...
    12/28/2009 02:37 AM
  • I keep 2 or 3 active e-mail addresses
    at any given time. One is my hotmail address
    that I use for purpose driven things. Such as
    business contacts and networking, to be slapped
    on my resume, and for friends and family, and
    my bank account notifications, and for shopping
    notifications from places I trust not to hand
    off my information such as Amazon, Tiger
    Direct. I don't use this account for anything
    but what I have described.

    I have a G-mail account that basically backs up
    and acts as a long term archive for those e-
    mails. G-mail seems to do a better job in terms
    of E-mail management with labels and such.

    So those are my Primary Two. They get synced to
    my mobile devices, and computers and such for
    even further redundancy.

    My 3rd account which I use for random shopping
    sites, which are not likely well known but had
    some nitch item that I was looking for, or some
    such, or their privacy statement indicated that
    they would sell my e-mail to be spammed, that
    stuff goes there, which coincidentally is also
    a hotmail account. It is also for some
    interesting site that wanted registration
    before continuing, well long story short, that
    thing gets spammed like crazy. Probably still
    pretty conservative in amounts as compared to
    other peoples primary accounts, but it works. I
    get absolutely zero unwanted spam (Save for the
    chain mail crap, which I immediately delete!!!
    E-mail etiquette anyone) in my inbox on my 2
    primary accounts.

    It basically boils down to have at least 2
    accounts. One for things you really care about,
    friends, family, networking, etc, and the other
    for spamming sh8t that you really don't care
    about.

    And of course final rule, and this guy should
    have known better, if you get the message that
    looks legit, call your bank using a trusted #,
    regarding the e-mail. If they don't have a clue
    of which you speak, delete the e-mail, and
    report it as spam to the e-mail account.

    As for Hotmail, well yes their support sux.

    Edit: And by the way, don't download the stupid
    smiley toolbars, or myspace bars, or whatever.
    not only do they clutter the browser, but most
    of the time they are more or less there to farm
    or phish for e-mail anyway. Just don't do it.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    JM1981
    (Edited: 12/28/2009 12:18 PM)
  • Hotmail is free
    just like Gmail. He is likely paying for extra storage, which costs on Gmail too. Only slightly more. Not sure how much you get but $30 vs $36 at Gmail.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    LiquidLearner
    12/28/2009 04:22 PM
  • It depends on which email you used to register to porn sites.
    No service provider can get rid of spams unless they totally block all incoming emails . My best friend used to do spam and I can guarantee that there are a lot of way around their blocking system.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    Dealing
    (Edited: 12/29/2009 05:58 AM)
  • RE:
    I get phishing emails all the time, but this one was pretty convincing from "Windows Live" to verify whether my account was still active. However, I do hold my hands up to being a complete fool. What concerned me wasn't so much the phishing, but more then inability to talk to MSN after the event to get them locked out of the account and retrieve the deleted emails and contacts. P.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    phil_fersht
    12/27/2009 05:01 PM
  • Gmail's support isnt any better
    As it happens I stupidly forgot my password but they wouldnt reset my password and I could not get through to someone.
    I had to keep filling out a form and was told that they could not confirm my info despite answering all questions correctly.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    jdbukis@...
    12/28/2009 02:41 AM
  • I have a hard time complaining...
    The bottom line is we're talking free services. Sure, you may pay a small amount for the additional storage but you're not paying for support. $30/year doesn't even cover the cost of what one phone call would take. I find it amusing that people rely on Gmail or Hotmail as their "business" accounts. First thing I think when I see that is the person is likely an idiot or doesn't take his business very serious.

    You can get a hosted mailbox for a bit more money by many companies at a domain of your choosing where you CAN get support and get files restored. It's more than $36/year but you get what you pay for. I don't feel sorry for Phil in even the slightest. Get a real service if you want support, don't wast people's time with troll fodder about a free service having "web only help" and it being a problem.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    LiquidLearner
    12/28/2009 04:25 PM
  • You've really missed the point haven't you?
    "What concerned me wasn't so much the phishing, but more then inability
    to talk to MSN after the event to get them locked out of the account and
    retrieve the deleted emails and contacts."

    You've really missed the point haven't you? It's the fact that you fell for
    this that IS the story here. Poor support from MS is not, it's old news.

    It's your poor attention to detail that should be concerning you. eg: "...but
    more then inability to talk to MSN".

    What have your employers had to say about this? How confident in your
    abilities to advise them as a result of it?

    With your lack of professionalism, if in a different situation or profession,
    you'd made a mistake with a gun or a scalpel, you could easily have killed
    someone.

    No, let's simplify that. With your lack of professionalism, if you'd made a
    mistake with a car, you could easily have killed someone.

    It's no good diverting attention to the failings of the worst company on
    earth, for their lack of response after the event. The weak link in this
    chain was you.

    Further, you've only touched the surface of the real issues at the MS end.
    How do you imagine MS could ever support the number of users it has in
    the way you want?

    What you should be proposing, as a professional, is an automatic lock
    and flagging feature for users to implement when this kind of thing
    happens. But instead all you do is bleat about a predictable, common
    situation.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    Graham Ellison
    01/01/2010 11:26 AM
  • RE: Poor Hotmail Support
    Show your frustration with MSFT support with your pocketbook. Drop their stuff and go with another vendor.

    Money talks. The rest they ignore.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    Basic Logic
    12/27/2009 06:41 PM
  • Web Mail vs E-mail Client Security
    Other issues aside:

    Locally stored, and backed up, e-mails don't disappear when somebody blows up your e-mail cloud.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    Tom12Tom
    12/27/2009 06:53 PM
  • Naw, they just blow up...
    when your HD fails and you haven't done any external backups.

    Storing locally can have it's disadvantages, too..
    ZDNet Gravatar
    Wintel BSOD
    12/28/2009 03:41 PM
  • To be honest
    I wouldn't use anything MS makes unless I have too. I have to use XP at times, but I don't use IE for example.

    Your case just points to me, why we should not use web based mail. The bigger the company, the less they care and willing to help.

    The best thing I ever found for e-mail, is a local cable company which I get though Thunderbird (Linux), and g-mail for for less mission-critical services. (IE: backup)

    Thunderbird forfills everything I need. Filters spam, and the mailbox can be put anywhere, which can easy be collected, if Windows or linux is damaged so bad it cannot be restarted. That's why mainly I tell all my customers (I do computer service on the side) NOT to use Outlook express. You can recover they're mail though Tbird, but OE is hit or miss at best.

    - Kc
    ZDNet Gravatar
    kcredden2
    12/27/2009 07:21 PM

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