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Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

Red Hat vs. Windows for server share: The battle just heating up

By | December 22, 2010, 6:33am PST

Red Hat executives say they are going after Windows workloads in the enterprise and winning their share of deals. However, the effort will take time and the battle is really over new computing workloads.

The Red Hat Enterprise Linux-Windows Server duel is worth noting. According to IDC’s most recent data, Windows servers have 47.7 percent of the market with third quarter revenue of $5.6 billion, up 26 percent from a year ago. Linux servers represent 17.5 percent of industry revenue and third quarter revenue grew 32.6 percent to $2.1 billion. Unix server revenue has 21.5 percent market share, but is fading. IBM’s z/OS has 8.6 percent of the server market.

In a nutshell, Windows servers have the most market share and nice growth. It’s just a matter of time before Linux servers eclipse Unix to become No. 2.

On Red Hat’s earnings conference call Tuesday—the company reported strong third quarter results—CFO Charlie Peters noted that “the Windows market continues to be something that we’re definitely going after and something we’ve made good progress on.” Indeed, Red Hat has had its share of wins, but the Microsoft battle is more nuanced. The fight between Windows and Red Hat is over new workloads. No one is ripping out a Windows box for a Linux version.

Red Hat CEO Jim Whitehurst explained the dynamic.

Typically you don’t get a situation where somebody has a Windows box and comes in and reinstalls Linux on top of it or vice versa. The competitive dynamic happens with new infrastructure coming in or new workloads coming in, new applications coming in. And so working well with, making the SAPs of the world or the Accentures of the world, or ensuring web applications are built on a LAMP stack. That’s really where the battle happens. The typical field of battle is actually who’s getting the incremental 500 servers of infrastructure at XYZ company. And that’s again certainly the OS is important, but it’s also ensuring that the applications run best on that, that the tooling is there, that the company has the skill set to manage. I think we do incredibly well there. And obviously it’s one of the reasons you’ve seen the growth.

Analysts on the conference call were all over the Red Hat vs. Microsoft debate. Next up was whether Windows applications were being virtualized on Red hat. Whitehurst said a few customers are virtualizing Exchange on Red Hat, but it’s too early to tell what’s going on. Whitehurst said:

We’re still in the early days to call it a trend. But we’re certainly seeing customers do that. Windows is fully certified and supported by Microsoft on RHEV (Red Hat Enterprise Virtualization), and so we have a number of customers virtualizing Windows workloads including things like Exchange. So we feel very good about that. In terms of absolute quantification, I don’t have any great numbers on that yet. But we’re certainly seeing a lot of Windows workloads being up on RHEV.

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Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic.

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Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan has nothing to disclose. He doesn’t hold investments in the technology companies he covers.

Biography

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic. He was most recently Executive Editor of News and Blogs at ZDNet. Prior to that he was executive news editor at eWeek and news editor at Baseline. He also served as the East Coast news editor and finance editor at CNET News.com. Larry has covered the technology and financial services industry since 1995, publishing articles in WallStreetWeek.com, Inter@ctive Week, The New York Times, and Financial Planning magazine. He's a graduate of the Columbia School of Journalism and the University of Delaware.

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RE: Red Hat vs. Windows for server share: The battle just heating up
birumut Updated - 17th Jun
Great!!! thanks for sharing this information to us!
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0 Votes
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For us in a VMware environment it's cheaper to license WinBlows servers than it is Red Hat.

They need to change that and show a lower TCO (which is already there as it's not as unstable as Windows).....

But Bring it on - Windows has no place in any datacenter.
@itguy08
So is it cheaper to license RHEL than vmWare ESX?
(which is really the virtual platform price comparison.)
@sys_engineer

We have a huge investment in VMware, like most companies. We're not going to support another virtualization technology (REV/KVM) just for Linux.

So they have to keep licensing competitive for VMware shops. And to a lesser extent the 5 people using HyperV.
@it_guy 08...

Ah - I think I get what you were driving at earlier. IMHO, I'd stick with VMWare as well, mostly because of the functionality.
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Just like you have no place here
John Zern 22nd Dec 2010
@itguy08, but then again real IT people tend to disagree with you pretty much most of the time. wink
@John Zern

Sorry, I've got the years of experience, battle scars, and certs to back up what I say. If you don't like it, that's fine but I call them like I see them and that's a virtue sorely missing today.

You don't need anything Microsoft to succeed in business. In fact the best businesses avoid Microsoft like the plague it is.
@itguy08

"In fact the best businesses avoid Microsoft like the plague it is."

Sooooo.... How many companies in say, the Fortune 500 or FTSE 100 are running Windows, do you reckon?

I ask because they would all strike me as being "best businesses".
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but then, I have many years in IT myself, and talk among my peers lead me to a different thought then yours.

Do you think anybody takes you seriouslly when all you do is spout the same line In fact the best businesses avoid Microsoft like the plague it is?

You actually sound like a clone of DonnieBoy, an "IT Expert" that hasn't a clue.

You don't sound at all like a person who calls them like they see them, just someone who, for whatever reason, wants to bad mouth MS, Dell, ect at every opportunity they get, not because they have practicle experience, but becuase they're blaming MS for their own failings.

I could counter and say that it's been proven that you really don't need Linux at all to succeed in business , as there are many extremely successful companies out there that don't use Linux at all.

But I'm a professional, and we don't waste time with petty jealousies or hate issues like you seem to have. happy
@John Zern,

"Sorry, I've got the years of experience, battle scars, and certs to back up what I say. If you don't like it, that's fine but I call them like I see them and that's a virtue sorely missing today."

Yea, that's no substitution for the facts. Windows runs fine in alot of data centers. Your posts are always mired with alot of opinionated, over dramatic anti-Microsoft rants.
@John Zern

So it appears itguy is a frustrated Linux fanboi, trapped in a Windows body. He also didn't read the article and the facts as it appears business does prefer Windows. They obviously have him restrained at work.

The problem with all these trolls is they dont really understand how sophisticated Widnows is, nor do they understand why we need all the bells and whistles. From a Windows perspective, I'm always surprised at how primitive, unsophisticated and lacking in functionality Linux is. Ah well, if you only run a call center, I suppose that's all you need.

Oh and I have decades of experience, degress, diplomas and years of development (not just management) to back up what I say wink

Hope you can fit a Xmas tree under the bridge guys - merry Xmas
Red Hat pricing on competing hypervisors is "per VM", meaning they treat them like physical machines. That's why we run SuSE Linux Enterprise Server. They charge per physical machine, regardless of whose hypervisor you use, and you can have as many VMs as you like on each hypervisor, all for the same price Red Hat charge per VM.

For those VMware customers, there is also "SLES for VMware"; basically free SLES subscriptions for VMware ESX customers. (http://www.vmware.com/products/sles-for-vmware/)

When Red Hat update their pricing model to compete with SLES I'll look at it, but with what's on offer at the moment, SLES is quite hard to beat.
@itguy08
zzz TCO which decade are you in ??? Hello 2000 calling..
anyways where I come from.."itguy" is someone who would come to replace defective parts in my work station and probably setup my work station initially...you have no business talking about data centers :P
@itguy08 HyperV... maybe not that many people use it but it's pretty crazy... it's massively cheaper and has features very close to VMware.
@jessiethe3rd: "close to" doesn't let me run 30 VMs on a single box. "close to" doesn't give me live migration. "close to" doesn't require that I spend $4k on the Win2k8 Ent. license fee required to run Hyper-V on a box with more than 32GB of RAM. "close to" doesn't require me to by a Win2k8 Datacenter license to run more than four "virtual images" on the server.

Not sure where you're getting this "massively cheaper" jazz from, but until Hyper-V actually becomes enterprise-worthy, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole.
@Random_Walk,
Maybe jessiethe3rd was referring to Hyper-V Server 2008 R2, the free standalone version of Hyper-V. Here is some info about it,

""close to" doesn't let me run 30 VMs on a single box."
The maximum number of guest instances that can run on Microsoft Hyper-V Server 2008 R2 is 384.

"close to" doesn't give me live migration."
Live Migration is part of Hyper-V Server 2008 R2.

"close to" doesn't require that I spend $4k on the Win2k8 Ent. license fee required to run Hyper-V on a box with more than 32GB of RAM."
Hyper-V Server 2008 R2 support a maximum of 1TB of RAM

"close to" doesn't require me to by a Win2k8 Datacenter license to run more than four "virtual images" on the server"
That's part of Windows licensing not Hyper-V licensing, so the same applies if you are using VMware or another virtualization platform if you plan to install Windows Server as a guest OS.

Here is the link in case you need additional info,
http://www.microsoft.com/hyper-v-server/en/us/default.aspx
@dvm:

Wow - Microsoft really is desperate to get a foot in teh door, then.

I hadn't heard of the freebie they were offering. Too bad it's still a bit limited, though (the site's assertions aside, if it's the szame as their with-OS products, their idea of "live migration" doesn't include quite a few key features that now come standard with vMotion (live storage migration, migration w/o 'freezing', etc).

I also noticed a complete lack of management tools for it, and a complete lack of "guest virtualization rights". Where can those be found, perhaps?
@Random_Walk You're pretty clueless. And not talking about Hyper-V server, but the one that comes with the server.

1.- "close to" doesn't let me run 30 VMs on a single box. Sure it does, see post above. Hyper-V Scales pretty much the same as VMware.

2. "close to" doesn't give me live migration.
Yes it does. Hyper-V 2008 R2 has this functionality. It's been out almost a full year. Where've you been hiding under?

3. "close to" doesn't require that I spend $4k on the Win2k8 Ent. license fee required to run Hyper-V on a box with more than 32GB of RAM. - Hello, welcome to 2010. WS 2008 R2, as long as it's 64-bit architecture can access more than 32GB of RAM, regardless of the edition.
4. "close to" doesn't require me to by a Win2k8 Datacenter license to run more than four "virtual images" on the server. - You are clueles son MS licensing. You can run as many Win VM's as you want. Standard Edition includes 2, EE includes 4, DC is unlimited. This is true regardless of the hypervisor you're using. Even if you're using VMWare and you run more than, say, 10 Windows VM's, Datacenter edition (which costs like 2.8K per CPU) is more cost-effective. You can also mix and match editions (Buy EE, run 4 images. For 5th one use StdEd).
So in all, Hyper-V really is massively cheaper and the features really are very close to VMWare's. The cons? Hyper-V is super complicated to set up, while VMWare is super simple.
Get your facts straight before spewing your MS hate mongering crap.
0 Votes
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@itguy08

I must agree.

Think of the 'children' (other O/Ses in your data center).

WindoZE is like the neighborhood bully - best left isolated, and ignored.

(/snark)
0 Votes
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Err, what?
Random_Walk 23rd Dec 2010
@itguy08:

You're not making any sense here. Per VM, it's still cheaper to "license" RedHat ($300/yr support if you actually want it - otherwise $0.00), or CentOS ($0.00) than it is to support Windows Server 2008 std ($1029), Win2k8 Enterprise ($3,999) - not counting the obligatory Windows CALs.

Per server? With VMWare, you're paying $0.00 for ESXi, and (depending on contract schema) around $2k per physical server for vSphere Enterprise Plus.

(and yes, "Hyper-V" is free, but the server licenses + CALs you park it on will cost you about as much -- 2x more if we're talking big servers-- , and you don't get anywhere near the functionality).
Two thoughts:

RHEL 6 looks impressive. Red Hat may finally have an OS which can take out UNIX in the mission critical database space. It will give Solaris a run for its money, and may be what ultimately kills HP-UX (or saves HP Business Critical Systems, if HP wises up and puts Nehalem-EX processors in the Superdome 2).

RHEV 3 will likely become the #3 virtualization platform behind VMware and Hyper-V, but over time will likely move towards the #2 position. The "thick hypervisor" model of VMware ESX and KVM seem more flexible than the "thin hypervisor" models of Xen and Hyper-V.
@meh130@...
RHEL 5 supported Xen and we use that pretty heavily.
@meh130@...
I would also add that while the RHEL OS compares well to HP-UX, AIX, and Solaris in my opinion. Unless you're running on non-x86 based hardware (like IBM's RS/6000, or Mainframe) then the availability of the environment will be less than your traditional UNIX servers, unless you architect for hardware failures, which of course everyone should do anyhow. happy

In my opinion HP-UX has been rotting for a long time. If they had injected the I/O stack from OSF/1 (err Digital UNIX...err Tru64) they would have shaken things up a lot, but they didn't. HP-UX is on life support now. I agree with your superdome thoughts, but HP is very unlikely to walk away from the Itanic processors.
"Server market has been, and is, and will always be dominated by Linux."
@cym104 : Yeah, that's what I have thought for a few years now. This news look surprising to me.
@nomorebs
Paid instances of Linux servers.
@cym104 So these numbers showing Windows Server cleaning up the floor with Linux are simply fabricated? Some people find the need for facts to backup their moronic statements utterly and shamelessly unnecessary! happy
@Tiggster The data used for this article is very flawed - i would suspect it is based on purchases of Linux from vendors like Red Hat, not the total use of Linux in all (including free) versions.

With regard to who uses what; Linux is the top OS for internet services and almost all the larger companies have built their internet services architecture/infrastructure around Linux (Google, Amazon etc).

Windows is primarily used in large company internal networks with links for private web services.

There are many exceptions to this but that is the split and trend. Big data centers are the home of Linux you only have to visit one and watch the crew laugh when customers install windows serves.
@kpbpsw
"With regard to who uses what; Linux is the top OS for internet services and almost all the larger companies have built their internet services architecture/infrastructure around Linux (Google, Amazon etc)."

Google and Amazon make a small fraction of companies that use servers. Internet service providers, cloud services providers are more likely to use Linux because it's part of the core competency. Companies whose core competency is not internet services often use Windows as their server operating system because they use Microsoft products (Exchange, Sharepoint, SQL Server, Microsoft Dynamics).

"Windows is primarily used in large company internal networks with links for private web services."

That's a pretty large segment of the server market. Isn't that what this article is about? Isn't Red Hat anouncing their intention on going after that segment?
@cym104 : I guess you didn't read the article. 47% for Windows, 17% for Linux. Yup. That's Linux dominating. happy
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You missed a word ...
daboochmeister 24th Dec 2010
@Gis Bun - the word from the article that you left out of you taunt was "revenue". People paying more for Windows doesn't mean it's dominating (no more than Linux having more public internet servers or AMI images means it is).

I've yet to see real data that Disraeli would sign off on (he's the one who coined the "lies, damn lies, and statistics" quip).
@cym104

Wrong on many levles since I am guessin you have never built or managed a datacenter.

http://blogs.computerworld.com/16263/windows_widens_lead_over_linux_in_the_server_market

"Linux has no chance of catching Windows on the desktop, but many have held out hope it may overtake Windows when it comes to servers. But the latest figures from IDC show that's going to be tough to do, considering that Windows has just widened its already sizable lead over Linux on servers.

The latest IDC numbers show that in the first quarter of 2010 in terms of units sold, Windows had a 75.3% market share, (1,379,487 units) compared to 20.8% for Linux (380,429 units) and 3.6% (65,451 units) for Unix."

Windows SErvers are running the datacenter due to higher TCO, high availability and support for a MUCH larger variety or wrokloads than Linux.
@omdguy The numbers don't really lie do they? Suprised as usual to see the "Micro$oft Sucks" crew making its usual rounds spreading FUD.

Regardless - TCO at the end of the day is lower than Linux. Redhat may skimp on licensing but they do not skimp on the service/support side of things which is why most people just go the Windows Server route. Quite simply, professionals are easy to be had, the platform is flexible, and the cost to run virtualized is sound.
@cym104
Yes it is. The numbers you see are $$$ and they do not include free server distros which are dominating the market. Netcraft gives >65% of server marketshare to Linux, based on number of machines.
Eat your heart.
@cym104
A bit of context for the uninformed. At least on web servers, paid Linux instances are at most 33% (Redhat+SuSE+ Ubuntu, though last one could be both paid and free). So IDC is undercounting Linux instances very significantly.
http://w3techs.com/technologies/history_details/os-linux
0 Votes
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Depends on the market
rock06r 26th Dec 2010
@cym104 ...My understanding of this article is that it is refering to the Enterprise market... although it probably should be qualified as the SOHO enterprise market. Not so sure about large enterprises using MS servers except for the more user-facing tasks like intranet servers (Sharepoint) and perhaps for client-server applications. Anyway, I can't... and really never did... imagine SOHO enterprises buying into Linux for their own servers. Many companies that run their own network need the independence from vendors and self-reliance that MS servers bring. With Linux... you're basically stuck with whoever you can find that'll bring these products on-premise. And if you're lucky, you can find a penguin-admin that knows what he's doing. But ... mostly you need to stay with a technology that is supported by pretty much everyone and that everyone understands in the trenches. From that perspective, I am not surprised by the article in the least.
0 Votes
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There are two leaps of faith with the way the IDC numbers presented in this article are used:

1) Red Hat does not account for all Linux servers.
There are many embedded/black box servers that run their
own Linux. Heck even vmWare ESX ran a Linux host on
every install, that was based on RHEL.
Red Hat is the number #1 distribution though.

2) Linux numbers are often under-represented. The reason is
that not all distributions require support contracts, so they
aren't tracked as closely.

I would say that today if I were deploying Linux in an enterprise, Red Hat would be the distribution to use. They are a good vendor to work with, we well.
0 Votes
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From the article:
ye 22nd Dec 2010
@sys_engineer: 1) Red Hat does not account for all Linux servers.

"Linux servers represent 17.5 percent of industry revenue and third quarter revenue grew 32.6 percent to $2.1 billion."

Take note of the highlighted word. It says "Linux" and not "Red Hat".
@ye
And the majority of servers are NOT Windows......
@ye
The article's name is"Red Hat vs. Windows ...etc" and the only Linux distro discussed was Red Hat. As the author didn't really draw the distinction between what he was talking about versus the IDC number. happy
0 Votes
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Irrevent to my point.
ye 22nd Dec 2010
@itguy08: And the majority of servers are NOT Windows......
0 Votes
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Doesn't matter.
ye 22nd Dec 2010
@sys_engineer: The article's name is"Red Hat vs. Windows ...etc" and the only Linux distro discussed was Red Hat.

Your reference was to the numbers given by IDC. Those numbers clearly said "Linux", not "Red Hat".
@ye
Since it is only $$, not number of machines it cannot be Linux. It is the paid part of Linux. Do you understand the difference? Heard of CentOS for example?
@sys_engineer Why do Linux lemmings always try to explain away the data when its proven their platform is hopelessly behind in marketshare? Seriously, I'd like an answer, because it puzzles me greatly. Stop making excuses!
@Tiggster It's the magic "FUD" machine.
@Tiggster Why do Windows fans treat 'Marketing' report data as gospel? OS Marketing reports do not include servers sold OS-less, the vast majority of which will run Linux or Unix.

From the IDC report, about 20% of servers sold are not accounted for compared to OSes sold.
Why license? CentOS is the same bits for free. 100% binary compatible. Never buy Windows for simple stuff, like file and print servers, use CentOS. What do you get from Red Hat for the fee?
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@ye
I agree what IDC numbers say, however the way this article used them is the point that I was making. Not a big deal though. I edited my posting to clear the air and hopefully lower your blood pressure. happy
To John Zern:

Apple just blew past MS in market cap and revenue, and Google will soon follow. Would you call that successful? I wonder what software they use, maybe not Windblows?
@bigpicture,
You are right regarding Apple market cap over MS, but Google still behind MS, and I don't think the Google will soon be over MS market cap.

Google: $149.2B
MS: $241.2B

BTW, did you know that MS profit is higher than Apple?

Apple: $14B
MS: $18.8B
I would call that a successful company, don't you?
@dvm: I'm sure I'll catch heat for saying this but, as you pointed out, Microsoft is still more profitable than Apple yet Apple's market cap is larger than Microsoft's. When they're no longer the Wall Street darling I think it'll fall fast. And this as someone who owns AAPL (hey, it's been very good to me!).
Great!!! thanks for sharing this information to us!
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