ie8 fix

Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

The cure for YouTube's ills: Charge for uploads

By | June 1, 2009, 2:15am PDT

Summary: Business models that revolve around “free” are never free since someone always foots the bill. Meanwhile, far more companies think they have more growth and scale to lower costs than they actually do. YouTube may be one of those companies that merely thinks it has the scale to eventually make money. In fact, those 20 [...]

Business models that revolve around “free” are never free since someone always foots the bill. Meanwhile, far more companies think they have more growth and scale to lower costs than they actually do. YouTube may be one of those companies that merely thinks it has the scale to eventually make money. In fact, those 20 hours of video uploaded every minute on YouTube costs money—too much money. The solution? Charge a small fee for uploads.

That’s the crux of an argument by Bernstein analyst Jeffrey Lindsay. He maintains that YouTube’s business model is doomed and that network effects—the increased value derived from increased usage—are never an excuse to avoid coming up with a business model. The argument is notable given all the hubbub over free vs. subscription (micropayments and otherwise) are front and center. Let’s dismiss the backlash that would ensue if YouTube started charging and listen to the argument.

In his weekend missive, Lindsay wrote:

In contrast to the latest wave of business articles about “free” as the new business model, we would argue there is no such thing as free – someone always pays. YouTube is an interesting case in point. Revenue estimates for 2009 are in the $200 to $250 million range, but costs are estimated to be somewhere in the $400 to $700 million range. Who makes up the difference? Google shareholders, of course. For those of us who lived through the “new economics of the Internet” in the late 1990s, seeing it happen all over again with Google brings a wry smile. In fact, what seems to be emerging is an Internet variant on an old GM adage: “we lose money on every car – but we make it up on volume.” Substitute video for car and you have a pretty accurate description of YouTube’s current business model.

And then there’s this history lesson:

Network effects were known long before the Internet. They came to prominence in the 19th century with telephony – if only one person has a phone, telephony has zero value; if two people have phones they can call each other and the service has some value; if almost everyone has a phone the service becomes one of the most successful industries of modern times. The interesting thing about the pioneers of telephony is that they seem to have been much better at devising business models than their modern Internet counterparts. Charging for calls by the minute was smart, but charging by time of day and distance was pure genius— establishing a business model that has lasted over a century. Imagine what would have happened if Bell Telephone had allowed people to call anyone anywhere at any time, for as long as they liked for free—not for a fixed monthly rate, which may have made some sense, but for absolutely nothing. Had the industry survived, which is highly unlikely, it would look rather like Skype today.

The problem: Many Internet businesses have network effects, software effects or market effects. The rub: Most of them don’t. This network effect delusion leads companies to grow at any costs in hopes of being valued by subscribers instead of revenue growth. Through the lens of the late 1990s, only AOL, Amazon, eBay and Yahoo had true network effects. The rest: Pets.com, eToys, Webvan etc. YouTube may fall into that latter category (we’ll never completely know since it’s part of Google).

What we have here is a lack of business model innovation. Lindsay notes that AOL, Yahoo, eBay and Amazon tapped into real business models. Those companies were hungry. In addition, the latest dot-com heroes are mired in a corporate structure that forgoes joint ventures and other models that may work. In the end, the model doesn’t matter—as long as you cash out in time.

Getting back to his YouTube example Lindsay says that YouTube goofed by not partnering with Viacom. In fact Hulu will be the Amazon while YouTube will play eBay.

The problem remains that YouTube is generating only modest ad revenues but has almost exponentially growing costs. Granted, Google has the most efficient server farms in the world and, granted, they have lots of dark fiber to light up and, granted, they can ride Moore’s law down its two-year exponential cost curve, but the problem is that people are now uploading 15 hours of video every minute and many of these videos are being watched overseas – where the ad revenues are meager if they exist at all. Consider YouTube fans in, say, Eastern Europe (there are many—the service is very popular there), along with the Middle East, Turkey and North Africa. Eastern European users upload videos in their native land, and most are stored on YouTube servers in the U.S. or Germany and then streamed back to be watched in Eastern Europe. Even if a major brand advertiser could be persuaded to buy an ad slot, would it pay to stream its ads in Uzbekistan? Moreover, consider the viewer stats. Very few Uzbek videos, for example, will have large viewership – eliminating the value of any edgeserving strategy and so destroying any economies of streaming at scale. Can Google ever make any money in these markets with YouTube?

Things might not have been so bad for YouTube had it not been for Hulu. The fundamental problem with user-generated material is that it cannot support a large advertising load. People will put up with video pre-rolls and interruption ads but really only on professionally-produced content.

Lindsay’s eBay-Amazon analogy with YouTube and Hulu goes further. YouTube looks like a flea market (like eBay). Hulu looks professional. YouTube quality is lacking. Hulu’s isn’t. Lindsay’s point: Professional content will eventually win and ads will follow. YouTube’s chore: Minimize the cost of the video it can’t sell.

Unless Google can pull something unexpected out of the hat with, say, targeting, it is unlikely that advertisers will favor YouTube over Hulu or the Web properties of the broadcasters, for that matter. That leaves the cost side. Is it really a good idea to allow users to upload video of anything? One of our colleagues regularly uploads videos of his pet mouse. Some members use YouTube as a way to share family videos with relatives. Hosting these videos forever has real cost. Is the community really enriched by this service?

So what should Google do with YouTube? Charge small listing fees just like eBay does.

Why not, like eBay, use low but non-zero listing fees to stop people listing rubbish and cover at least some of the hosting cost? If videos score well in user metrics, then they could get a break in their listing fees which, for very popular and advertisable clips, might quickly go to zero. Ad revenues would be split with content providers as now, but if revenue fell below a certain threshold a hosting fee could be applied.

The goal: Prevent folks like Lindsay’s co-worker who constantly uploads video of his pet mouse.

Lindsay acknowledges that YouTube usage may plummet, but by eradicating the site of “irrational uses” Google would discover what people really want. Anything that was good enough to garner advertising would be free. The rest would pay 5 cents an upload. In the meantime, Google should pursue more joint ventures.

Sounds great—in theory. The backlash to YouTube would be stunning if it started charging even a few pennies. You can almost hear the screams of “sell out!” now. Lindsay writes:

We think that if Google is going to survive in the media world, it is going to have to start to look and behave more like a media company. This may run counter to the grain of the Internet management team, but the media companies have been successful for a reason – they have established their business models over the last 50 years, and they work.

More from LindsayTwitter: A fine ‘pre-business’ but un-monetizable and a deadly acquisition target

More on YouTube: Did YouTube just find some monetization help?

DownloadZDNet Undercover: YouTube’s video ID system: Is 75 percent accuracy good enough?

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Topics

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic.

Disclosure

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan has nothing to disclose. He doesn’t hold investments in the technology companies he covers.

Biography

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic. He was most recently Executive Editor of News and Blogs at ZDNet. Prior to that he was executive news editor at eWeek and news editor at Baseline. He also served as the East Coast news editor and finance editor at CNET News.com. Larry has covered the technology and financial services industry since 1995, publishing articles in WallStreetWeek.com, Inter@ctive Week, The New York Times, and Financial Planning magazine. He's a graduate of the Columbia School of Journalism and the University of Delaware.

For daily updates, follow Larry on Twitter.

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Fair enough.
AzuMao 5th Aug 2009
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yea, right.
gertruded 1st Jun 2009
Business and marketing types will destroy everything. They have
destroyed our banks, destroyed our automotive industry and now they
want to destroy the internet.

The whole country needs a new business model that does not include
Wall Street where greed rules.
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Who's greedy?
JohnMcGrew@... 1st Jun 2009
What about all those consumers who expect things
to be free?
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Good Idea
timbrady1124@... 1st Jun 2009
Paying for what you get sounds pretty American to me. If we want Youtube to succeed, paying may be necessary. And it may limit the junk that gets posted there ... if you want to post your stuff for "free," maybe you should get a website --- if you can get a free one that will let you.
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An understatement
Mihi Nomen Est 5th Aug 2009
"Junk" is an understatement.

There's nothing like looking at the list of things to look at and finding they are from the same TV show, but differing lengths:

2:10(minutes), 5:47, 24:09, 14.02, etc.

(You get the point).

It's almost as if someone is uploading just the commercials. wink

Some seem to upload specific points the poster liked (in particular), others are interested in putting the whole thing up there.

If commercials were left intact, it would be interesting to see what the reaction from the sponsors and the group which produced the video would be.
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The sponsors would be happy..
AzuMao 5th Aug 2009
The creators wouldn't be getting anything though.
The sponsors already paid them for running the ads
in their TV shows on TV. They don't get anything
extra for it being re-ran on a website..
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Karl Marx would be proud
BCF1968 1st Jun 2009
"The whole country needs a new business model that does not include Wall Street where greed rules"

In other words you want a business model that doesn't involve making any actual money. That's called communism. And it doesn't work.

ALL business are created because the person starting it wants to make money. You expect peole to invest time, money and effort into a business and not expect to make any money? They are supposed to bust their butts off to give you stuff for FREE? Do YOU work for FREE? No. Would you have a job if your place of employment gave out their stuff for free? no.

People that don't have a clue how to run a business really should post comments on how to run them.
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Agreed
Dorkyman 1st Jun 2009
I have to smile when I read comments about how "evil" those capitalists are. Imagine, actually making money! Who do they think they are?!!

I have absolutely no problem with YouTube charging $1 for an upload, or for that matter having my ISP charge me $.01 per email sent. The incremental costs to me per month would be trivial, while such practices would eliminate 90% of the cr*p on YouTube and in my inbox.
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your isp
jackfred 8th Jun 2009
you already pay for email with your isp and you would like to pay them some more, you must have money to throw away !!!!
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wtf?
AzuMao 9th Jun 2009
Even if he sent a hundred e-mails every month that
would only add up to $1. It would only be
expensive for spammers, who send millions of e-
mails.. do you like spam?
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um, no.
Mihi Nomen Est 5th Aug 2009
Charging price/message won't correct it.

I've posted elsewhere about spam.

One thing I didn't point out is: a lot of spammers have started finding sympathetic ISPs outside of the US. Ralsky has been known to specialize in Chinese hosts. How are you going to stop email from outside of the US? Block them? Some ardent anti-spamming sysadmins have turned to blocking entire country-level domains. *.cn and there's no more material from China. Some will block everything and unblock as the need is demonstrated.
Just block the spam sympathizers like Ralsky, and
only until they stop helping the spammers..
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Spam Elimination?
Mihi Nomen Est 5th Aug 2009
I think not.

Just because you're charged $0.01US/email message doesn't mean it would scale against those sending spam. It's sophistry.

Your ISP might charge you to send those messages, but plenty of ISPs are happy to charge their clients a bit more and look away. McColo was taken offline and spam dropped dramatically. They were reconnected, and it started piling up faster than the manure wagons we used to use on the farm.

A couple of quick tests to see a cause/effect pattern, and they shouldn't have been unplugged, someone should have tested the next generation of warheads and turned any offices into a parking lot.

Granted, Soloway was successfully sued by Microsoft, although he rebelled by obeying the letter of the FTC's interpretation of U-CAN-SPAM 2003: only business-related messages are spam. He started sending out the same volume of garbage, but it was legal, offering to help charities & not-for-profits get the word out.

Scott Richter, Sanford Wallace, Ronnie Scelson (Scelson sat before Congress and basically baited them with "there's nothing you can do to stop me"). Guess who was arrested late June for a litany of sexual acts? Think "underage girls", then think how many ways a pervert could involve them.

Alan Ralsky et alia have pled guilty for their actions. Will spam stop? No.

The way to go is not with the spammers, but with the people who hire them. Spammers are scum, but they are the ones who pass it out. If they don't make money, they don't eat.

Someone hires them. Unfortunately, Congress allowed the DMA to draft the U-CAN-SPAM 2003 legislation and wasn't inclined to deal with certain elements which would hobble their members to find ways to make money.

Look for Jerry Cerasale: "We think the opt-in creates a true noneconomic model ... We don't believe you get a viable economic model in opt-in."

IOW, "people won't opt-in and we won't make money"

I could go on, but you get the picture.

0 Votes
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Moderation in everything.
masonwheeler 1st Jun 2009
False dichotomy. People are sick of the Wall Street model, not because it "makes money" but because it does so disproportionately and exploitatively, to the detriment of society. When ordinary people who work hard at their jobs aren't able to afford basic necessities like food, shelter, transportation and health care for themselves and their families, the system has broken faith with the people.

There's nothing wrong with capitalism, real capitalism as defined by Adam Smith. But that's not what Wall Street practices these days. What we're seeing looks more and more like the corrupted extremist version advocated by Ayn Rand. That model is evil. It's shattered our economy, and people are starting to notice, and reflexively shouting "COMMUNISM!" as a knee-jerk reaction at anyone who dares to mention the problem won't fix it.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for Google to charge a moderate listing fee for YouTube. I don't think it would dampen people's enthusiasm very much, either. Just look at text messaging, or Amazon's music model. If I want to buy a song download from Amazon, they don't ask me for my credit card info because it's already on file. They just charge me 99 cents and it's out of sight and out of mind.

People are quite willing to pay very minor costs like that if they don't have to be hassled with the payment process. Google would be right to try to charge a few cents per upload, as long as they kept it reasonable. And that's one of the best things about the Internet. By making everyone with a minimal amount of resources able to establish a presence, it enforces the fundamental principle of capitalism: free competition. If Google did something really stupid like trying to gouge people on prices, they'd stop using YouTube and go to somewhere else, and you'd better believe the "somewhere else" would show up for them to go to.
0 Votes
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yes, but disagree on that
shadfurman 1st Jun 2009
I don't believe we actually have an increase of
corporate immorality, but we have increasing
level of expected morals AND better
communications to allow discovery of immoral
behavior. We have ever increasing requirements
for "pollution" controls, often with seemingly
little regard for consequences. We're expecting
companies to provide MORE for their employees,
better health care, higher wages, more paid
time off, extra special paid time off (encase
of pregnancy etc.) and at the same time
expecting them to pay more taxes, without
raising the end cost of their product. We're
placing increasing politically driven
expectations on coorperations, and when they
cut one area to fulfill another we call them
immoral and greedy.

HOWEVER, actual corruption (Enron, ect..) needs
to be met with MUCH higher disciplinary
standards. Its not a reach to expect higher
moral standards to those we trust with our
money and/or rights.

I scream "communism" (or usually "socialism")
when the movement is TAKE from the rich to give
to the poor, because the rich MUST be corrupt.
I have found it quite the opposite. It is
difficult for a person with low morals to
maintain a high level of disapline, and hard to
those with low disapline to weather the storm
of free market capitolism. I see poor people
buying cars and houses they can't afford, while
rich people buy things they need or that will
become an investment. (No one NEEDS their own
house or car, plenty of people do fine without
one, I grew up in a large family that had
little income, I know what I'm talking about in
that respect.) Not always, or as a rule, but as
a noticeable trend. Poor people KEEP themselves
poor, I can financially advise anyone to a
decent living standard and a healthy retirement
as long as they have the discipline to stick to
it and not spring for pizza every Friday.

I don't use a vesa or mastercard, so I cannot
make online payments without a temporary card.
I dropped my credit/debit cards when I found I
had difficulty controlling my spending. I and
many other people like me, would not be able to
upload video to youtube, that only one
demographic, then there is the demographic of
people who probably just don't feel its worth
paying for a service when there are so many
other similar free ones available. As your
video count drops the number of viewers and ad
revenue drop. As the number of viewers drop the
value of posting on the site drops. Eventually
it becomes mediocre among a see of similar
websites.

Leave the free video for people who want to
post free video, have pay for services for
those willing to pay for more features. A large
portion of the free quality posts come from
cellphones or people who really don't care THAT
much about the quality of the video, or the
features in addition to it. They just want to
post their video on the most popular video site
on the net.
0 Votes
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A long way between...
pico_D 2nd Jun 2009
Wall Street and Communism.

I agree that what Wall Street has been doing for the last decade or so is self-destructive and doesn't serve the business or the customer, it only serves to line the pockets of the investors.

To say that is bad does not automatically mean that you are supporting communism. And those that want a service like YouTube to be free are in danger of sound like communists to the great unwashed.

A company needs to make money to survive, that doesn't mean they need to gouge their customers.

In this case, if people have to pay for uploads, then the amount of frivilous videos will probably drop (as will, probably, the number of copyright infringing videos).

If it is a couple of cents per video, it will make people stop and think about what they are uploading...
0 Votes
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Someone suggested charging 5 pennies, and everyone
freaked out over the prospect of "losing their god
given right to free service 100% of the time".
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My point exactly (nt)
pico_D 2nd Jun 2009
(nt)
0 Votes
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That's not far off when people....
Mihi Nomen Est 5th Aug 2009
...are on the news, have an axe to grind, then proclaim it's "violating their (US) Constitutional rights", yet never point out which part of the Constitution it applies to.

But you have to remember 99.9999% (do I need more 9s? of the people online today weren't around when the 'net wasn't required to make money for people. (That is when I coined the phrase, "The World's Biggest Secret Club")

Granted, (nearly all of) what's online wouldn't be there if it weren't for commercial success, either originally, or built upon the failure of others.

But most people (informal surveys over the years) can't understand there were search engines without a web, a web without search engines, and believe Yahoo! was a search engine.

Okay, okay, not a search engine in terms of a crawler. But considering it was based upon staff poking about, making a database of things they thought were cool; or, people submitting web addresses of things they liked (or were sent under the Academy Award event known as ads, "For Your Consideration").

Things obviously had to fall betwixt the cracks.


Than you must be really freaked out over
the current system where songs cost 100 cents and
you get fined 10,000,000 cents if you download one
without paying, right?
0 Votes
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Yep. Exactly.
masonwheeler 2nd Jun 2009
Too bad more people don't stop and think long enough to reach a conclusion like that...
0 Votes
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Amazing
SteveRMann 1st Jun 2009
What surprises me is the volume of people who throw out terms like Communism, Capitalism and Marxism without knowing how each works and how they are different from each other.

Google could simply solve their problem with another version of Google. Call it Google Pro where users pay for uploads and there are no ads and leave the dd-supported version as they have now.

Everyone wins.
0 Votes
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New business model
hizaleus 2nd Jun 2009
The suggestion was "new business model" not changing to another, failed business model. There have to be more than 2 concepts of how to set up an economic system.

All economic systems are inherently artificial because they are trying to equate apples and oranges. The problem arises when the model (in our case, money) ceases to accurately reflect the reality (goods and services) it is supposed to represent, and the model becomes predominant (making money without providing goods and services or skewed valuation of different goods and services.)
0 Votes
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doesn't sound like greed to me . . .
pikeman666 1st Jun 2009
Didn't you ever hear that there is no such thing as a free lunch? Even Karl Marx had to pay for his beer.
Here is another one:
You get what you pay for.
YouTube is a vast cesspool of crap. If something has some value I think they will subscribe to post it.
Who wants to watch you light your farts?
0 Votes
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So, are you paying your way?
gcavener 1st Jun 2009
You say that some people want to destroy the internet. You want to play, so are you willing to pay your own way? If you are hungry do you expect someone else to buy you a sandwich? Nothing of value is free. If you spend time doing something wonderful on the internet, someone is paying for you to do that. If you are not willing to pay for what you do, you don't deserve to access the internet.
0 Votes
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Yeah! Those greedy, good for nothing,
unclefixer@... Updated - 1st Jun 2009
sons of motherless goats actually expect YouTube to get it's hosting
for free and to, you know, pay "bills" and stuff, man- meaning that all
the machinery hosting the pet mouse videos should be free too. They
won't break, we... uh... promise! happy Yeah- and if any of the lines
carrying the uploads to YouTube need to be repaired and/or
maintained, there will be someone hanging around to do that for free
too. Know what? All employees at YouTube do their jobs for free!
Know how come? Love, man! Sheer, warm, fuzzy love! Because we all
know that "the Man" is just trying to hold a free spirit down! Down
with greed, man! And while we're at it, down with the greedy Man! I'm
so p****d about it, I'm gonna make a YouTube video about it man!
Power to the People, Right On!
The preceding outburst of sarcasm was brought to you by
www.dfwsupergeek.com , where we know the hosting costs
something. Thank you.
ps- maybe a few pennies per upload would filter out some of the
complete crap that ends up on YouTube. IMHO
0 Votes
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I'm quite happy to see youtube continuing to provide a free service, unless someone's got a better way of destroying it.

That said I find country specific services such as Hulu in the US and Spotify in the UK equally aggravating. The US and UK are happy to have us fighting and dying in their wars in Turkey, Belgium, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc, yet we're denied access to commercial services such as those mentioned.
Sons of Ishmael have been mad at all of Abraham's other children, ever since he sent Haggar and Ishmael into the desert. UK and US, just recently got involved, relatively speaking. UK as early as the crusades. And the US?, on the "Shores of Tripoli" a couple hundred yrs ago. Heck US is a baby in the context of existance as a country. Capitalism made US strong as a nation. Socialism is sucking the marrow from US. Soon we will be like france and other EU nations. Where 50+% of what your hard work earns, goes to the govt. For programs like socialised medicine where they let you die because it is cheaper, than to take care of you.

If YouTube continues losing 200 to 400 million/yr US, it can not continue as a viable service. Charging someone $0.05 to post their mouse videos, will not stop people from uploading "their crap". But it will allow you to keep watching "their crap"... for free. Since you are to greedy to give someone money for their work. I'm sure you work for free at your job.
0 Votes
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Of course it *would* rid us of idiotic videos of a person jumping up and down and clapping. happy

But the trouble is, Youtube *is* about scale. And about free. Take either one of those away and Youtube vanishes.

It's like email. Everybody uses (and abuses) it, but if you had to *pay* for it its utility would pretty much vanish.

Maybe it's a good thing Youtube was bought by Google. It's able to subsidize a (fairly) cool service, the same way it does Google Earth and the related Street Views (which are all kinds of handy!).

But a stand-alone sustainable business? Not happening. Youtube is one of those wacky ideas that never can make money.
0 Votes
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No it wouldn't
BCF1968 1st Jun 2009
They are talking about charging for UPLOADS not to watch the videos. People watching the videos aren't going to care if the person uploading had to pay or not.

95% of what's on Youtube is junk and if charging reduces that them that's a GOOD thing. Besides if you want to upload a video and you're not willing to pay a nickle should you even be uploading it at all? You're admitting your video is so crappy it's not worth 5 cents. Why waste MY time and everyone else's time then?
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The argument for subscriptions
AttackComputerWhiz 1st Jun 2009
Right here you have your argument. If you let people keep watching for free, but charge people for providing content, there is something wrong.

For example, I know kids that make little demo videos of makeup styles or DIY ideas for people to see. My kid makes maybe 100 or so a month because there are contests, etc. YouTube is also used for a handy place for artists and actors to post demo reels. Some TV shows post teaser clips and there are now movies being posted that are 10 or more sections each.

Charging for all that would KILL the service because, while a nickel may not seem like much for one video, consider how much that would be multiplied.

Unless you have actually WATCHED 100% of what is on YouTube, how can you say it is 95% crap? And, if you think it is crap, why are you watching it in the first place?

You know what--sell ads before videos. Other sites do it, so why not here? Let people watch a 10-15 second commercial before they get the cute mouse videos.
0 Votes
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He needs to get a job.

C'mon, that's a weak argument. Pay-per-upload is the best proposal yet. Like another commenter said, if you won't pay five measly cents to upload your video, you've already admitted it isn't worth a nickel, so why should you expect anyone else to watch it?
0 Votes
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Agree with you Dunkle...
shawkins 1st Jun 2009
A whole LOT of the videos on Youtube are a waste of bandwidth. No educational, informational or entertainment value exists in far too many of them. If I thought my videos were worth posting, I would gladly pay a nickel or a dime.

If an upload fee will help keep some of the useless drivel off the web, I'm all for it. It might even free up some bandwidth so that YouTube isn't so annoyingly slow at times.
0 Votes
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You-Tube is not cheap to run, somebody is paying for the "free" service.
As was previously stated there is a lot of Silly, But as talkback14 stated there is a great deal of news on You-Tube. Putting Ads on "national" TV is very financially prohibitive. I've seen points of view and news items NOT on the BIG 3 or FOX, because the "stories" weren't deemed worthy. Those same videos do sometimes become stories on the National news and You-Tube gets the accredited 'BY line'.
I may consider some "films" silly but enjoy watching the creative results. Some have wonderful imaginations.
Why not charge for the advertisement-feature.
OR better:
have a following minimum to offset the cost.
If your story has a following, of say 100 people that counts as You-Tube Points at 50 cents +|-, per point.
It would become a learning lesson for the very young and produce better productions to entice the followers (in essence TV ratings).
I am assuming some decorum (NO PORN or hate), rules of play should be established. I would actually enjoy that kind of presentation.
what about a sitcom or drama show.
I saw that kind of stuff in the You-Tube beginnings, but it kind of disappeared under less then interesting silliness. I turned it OFF. Only to returned when features of interest started up. Like the antics of baby animals or gown-up animals caught acting like babies (mostly kittens and puppies).
Thing is; if you don't like it turn it OFF! or say so. Public opinion has WEIGHT and VALUE.
End of soapbox.

Take Care,
Scooter
0 Votes
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Watch for a fee / free uploads?
Mihi Nomen Est 5th Aug 2009
If I have to pay (regardless of the cost) to download things, then I would expect to receive a refund if things are not what they are presented to be.

If someone says, "The complete " and it's not complete, I should have the same remedy I have at a restaurant. If it's not right, fix it or refund my money.
0 Votes
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Fair enough.
AzuMao 5th Aug 2009
0 Votes
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95%
Mihi Nomen Est 5th Aug 2009

Someone once remarked to Arthur C. Clarke that 90% of sci-fi is garbage. He responded, "90% of everything is junk".

If people think such a service should provide free uploads, then they can either create, or wait for someone to create that type of system.

Granted, Google has the ability to scale (practically) any model they choose, but if you do it well enough, they might buy it. wink

Have you seen Giggle's latest acquisition?

"...at about 57 percent over the closing price of its common stock on Tuesday. That share price being a whopping 38 cents.

The news threw penny stock traders into a tizzy. They bid up shares to 57 cents in midday trading -- a 50 percent leap..."
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There already are several youtube knock-off sites. Those sites will grow and new ones will appear and youtube will slide into oblivion.
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Nope
BCF1968 1st Jun 2009
Once those sites grow so will their bandwidth bill. How are they going to pay for it?

Funny all the people that want everything for free thinks the internet runs on magic or something and doesn't have any costs.

I think everyone that has never run a website should get one. Put just ONE funy video on it and use Youtube or whatever to drive trafic to that site. Hopefully you'll get a million views on your site then when you get your hosting bill you'll see what it's like to actually run a site. It aint cheap.
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agreed
Ninja1507 1st Jun 2009
And also you have to remember myspace has a video uploading system (freeeeee) and so it would grow as well. along with mefeedia and all the other tube knock-offs
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MySpace?
Mihi Nomen Est 5th Aug 2009
It's still around?

I thought they folded because they couldn't compete with Facebook.
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Facebook
AzuMao 5th Aug 2009
You mean the one that (gasp, shock, horror)
charges for some of their services? wink
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Charge and why bother uploading?
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exactly!
pikeman666 1st Jun 2009
Why waste the bandwidth and resources for mouse movies?
99.9% of what is out there is crap.
Maybe it would be better if it required a subscription to post?
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That's exactly the problem....
shawkins 1st Jun 2009
"People only upload because it's free"

They upload for free because more often than not, what they are uploading is not worth a dime. Even a small fee would likely go a long way in discouraging the videos that are uploaded just because they can be.

If people had to pay even a token amount, we not have to be exposed to 30 videos of the same kid singing the same song on Britain's Got Talent.
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You get what you pay for.
AzuMao Updated - 5th Aug 2009
If your movie is worth zilch, it deserves 0
publicity. It's that simple.
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...and if you don't...
Mihi Nomen Est 5th Aug 2009
you're ???

It's like I say, "you get what you pay for, and if you don't, then you didn't."

There is the thumbs up/down model.

It's like Gallagher [1] has said about helping the cops find drivers who should be taken to the side of the road and ticketed appropriately: suction/magnetic- tipped arrows. Someone cuts you off, fire the gun and the arrow sticks on the car. If the police find a car driving around with a particular quota of arrows...(how can that many people be wrong?) Granted, someone could vote a video out of the tribe, but you have to start somewhere.

The money has to come from somewhere, and it
seems
not many people click on those ads, so ya..




P.S. whatcha gonna do when some smartass shoots
100 arrows at your car while you are in the
store, or flags down your video with 100
accounts? Great plan NOT!
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You rather casually link YouTube's lack of profit to the cost of storage. Why? The number one cost of anything is labor, and storage is cheap - dirt cheap.

Let's say the additional hardware for those 20 hours a minute is $10,000,000 a year (and that would be on the high side). How does that explain what's going on?

The numbers don't add up. You're making wild, swinging assumptions that need further analysis.
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Two problems
masonwheeler 1st Jun 2009
First, the biggest problem isn't the storage, it's the bandwidth. Transmitting all that video back and forth costs a lot of money.

Also, storage may be dirt cheap at a personal scale. A terabyte HD isn't out of a serious buyer's price range anymore. But when twenty hours of video is uploaded every minute, that "dirt cheap" adds up very quickly.
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Numbers still don't add up
Takalok 1st Jun 2009
First, the biggest problem isn't the storage, it's the bandwidth.

How so? Upload on YouTube compared to download is so small as to be non-existent. Also, the article did say YouTube still has plenty of dark fiber to turn up.

Also, I estimated about $10,000,000 a year in hardware to support the additional storage requirements. But the article claims YouTube's deficit is in the hundreds of millions.

Blaming uploaded content for YouTubes problems makes no sense. The numbers don't support it. The article is pretty far off base.

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