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Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

Verizon and Apple iPhone could make some LTE magic

By | October 6, 2010, 11:48am PDT

Summary: Apple will reportedly bring its iPhone to the Verizon Wireless network in early 2011. Meanwhile, Verizon Wireless is launching Long-Term Evolution in 38 markets by the end of the year. That’s a recipe for gadget nirvana.

Apple will reportedly bring its iPhone to the Verizon Wireless network in early 2011. Meanwhile, Verizon Wireless is launching Long-Term Evolution in 38 markets by the end of the year. That’s a recipe for gadget nirvana.

Let’s add up the moving parts:

  • The Wall Street Journal reports that Apple will produce a CDMA iPhone by the end of the year. Verizon Wireless will sell these devices in early 2011.
  • In addition, the Journal reports the first iPhone to hit Verizon Wireless will similar to the iPhone 4 at AT&T.
  • However, there’s a “new iPhone model” coming that will have a different form factor.
  • Meanwhile, Verizon Wireless just happens to be launching its LTE service in 38 markets by the end of the year.

Add it up and you have a potential iPhone-LTE match that could be a game changer, but Verizon appears to hold the cards. Verizon Wireless chief Lowell McAdam said “I expect at some point in time our business interests will align.” He added that LTE could be a great catalyst for Apple to want to bring smartphones and tablets to Verizon.

The only downside—for Verizon—is that this news will freeze a lot of upgrades.

In some respects, Apple had to make the Verizon move. Android devices are swamping the market and Apple was losing share by being exclusive to AT&T. A Verizon Wireless-iPhone should move more units and give Apple a major shot of doubling distribution in the U.S.

Ultimate iPhone 4 gallery: Unboxing, comparisons, and screenshots

Cracking Open the Apple iPhone 4

Verizon CEO Ivan Seidenberg seemed to throw cold water on the iPhone chatter last month, but left the window open to a deal. Translation: Verizon’s comments were a negotiating ploy. Seidenberg said:

So the iPhone, AT&T has done a wonderful job with it, Apple obviously has done a wonderful job with it. We were not in the game because it was GSM-based, it was global standard, really not there. We have worked hard at building a franchise out of Droid which proves that if there is an alternative, an acceptable alternative to the iPhone, and a great network and a great distribution channel, the market will go that direction.

I’m hoping that the success we have had with the Droid will lead us to the place where Apple, Samsung, Motorola, Huawei even, will want to build 4G devices and accelerate the ecosystem development so that the number of devices that will be available on 4G will be extraordinary. And our view would be we would want to carry them all.

I can’t speak for Apple but my view is there is a lot of momentum in the industry for people to move on the 4G issues quicker.

Bottom line: Apple and Verizon are playing iPhone negotiation games, but the LTE card may be too hard to resist for both parties.

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Topics

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic.

Disclosure

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan has nothing to disclose. He doesn’t hold investments in the technology companies he covers.

Biography

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic. He was most recently Executive Editor of News and Blogs at ZDNet. Prior to that he was executive news editor at eWeek and news editor at Baseline. He also served as the East Coast news editor and finance editor at CNET News.com. Larry has covered the technology and financial services industry since 1995, publishing articles in WallStreetWeek.com, Inter@ctive Week, The New York Times, and Financial Planning magazine. He's a graduate of the Columbia School of Journalism and the University of Delaware.

For daily updates, follow Larry on Twitter.

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RE: Verizon and Apple iPhone could make some LTE magic
tomlin21-24319035676893835085146735905770 11th Oct
It can be this sort of a incredible football jersey reference you could be providing and you also give it absent for extensively zero fee.
Hate to say it but this sounds like another "Verizon iPhone" rumor we have been seeing for the last year+....

I'll believe it when I see it.

Till then... business as usual.
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@zenwalker

Likewise, with LTE launching, they could deliver an even better device than the current iPhone.

There were probably squabbles between both parties but now they need each other so Im pretty sure that this will happen.
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It would be easy to dismiss this as a rumor, except that Apple has been hiring CDMA engineers this past year. Some of my colleagues from Motorola and LG have been hired over the summer and I have been called too (and I don't have any GSM experience). Even with the deployment of LTE the CDMA devices will still be operational as the LTE (IMT UMTS) spec requires carriers to be capable of running the concurrent technologies for at least a few years. On top of that LTE supports seamless passing to cell towers with older network technology such as GSM, cdmaOne, UMTS, and CDMA2000 so there is no question that phones you buy now will be operational in the next few years. Just as AT&T still runs some of the older GSM phones.
@krustykanuck The CDMA iPhone went to China though. I'd wait until Apple actually announces it befeore spreading rumors.
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@snoop0x7b
Then why would Apple need engineers in North America, other than a few for network and field testing?
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If true...death to Windows Phone 7...

If it happens, great marketing strategy by Apple...pull in the remaining iPhone adopters from Verizon before iPhone 5 hits the shelves in June of '11...

People sick of AT&T will jump over to Verizon and continue their loyalty to Apple...

Windows Phone 7 will flounder....

Win-Win for Jobs.
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@cyberslammer If not true then yes, like Zenwalker said...just another Verizon rumor FUD.
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These things are not related
Tiggster 6th Oct 2010
@cyberslammer

Are you kidding? This makes less sense than the Android fanboys out there saying the Android pad will be the death of the iPad. If you can't put your personal agenda aside and make rational comments, you'd do yourself a favor to keep them to yourself. happy
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@Tiggster Sorry, nope...I predicted that the Kin would flop, and it did miserably...

This would be perfect for Apple to pull at the midnight hour before Windows Phone 7 is released or shortly thereafter....
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@cyberslammer

Oh yea! So you predicted the Kin would flop, so that means we should all hang on your every incoherent word from now on? PLEASE!
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@Tiggster your right it can't...but it is funny to read.
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@cyberslump -
you predicted the Kin - big deal...everyone questioned the Kin...boy sounds like you should predict the stock market as well - your cut from the same cloth and both about as reliable.
@Tiggster No offense, @cyberslammer, but my cat predicted the Kin would fail. We'll see about Windows 7 Phone, but the Kin was such a monumentally stupid idea, on so many levels, it's a wonder no one at Microsoft figured that out. Doesn't bode well for the decisions they're making on the Windows 7 Phone, but again, I'll reserve judgement until Monday (or whever I get a chance to mess with one).
@Tiggster by-the-way, the cat's name is "Tigger", but I'm pretty sure he can't type...
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dont forget...they cannot bring their iPhones over...
dtroyerSMU Updated - 6th Oct 2010
@cyberslammer ...CDMA is not GSM and their ATT iPhones will not work!... hmm.... double payout on an already expensive celullar phone....i dont see that many jumping for at least 2 years ....:)

oh small correction, the LTE (GSM) network is "not compatible with the current GSM networks run by AT&T and T-Mobile. Both are expected to support LTE. And don't expect to see the new phones anytime soon..." http://consumerist.com/2007/12/verizon-to-go-gsm.html
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Correct LTE is NOT GSM
otaddy 6th Oct 2010
@dtroyerSMU

LTE is an entirely new air interface technology that breaks with all legacy network standards.

It's true the GSM people were the first to start working on the standard, but then when Verizon decided to go LTE, the CDMA people got on board as well.
@dtroyerSMU
FYI: That article is from 2007.
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Wait - Can't Apple just remove the GSM antenna
Pete "athynz" Athens 6th Oct 2010
@dtroyerSMU and replace it with a CDMA antenna that would be compatible with VZW and Sprint's networks? Or did I go a bit too fast for you there sparky? After all other manufacturers like RIM and HTC also have both CDMA and GSM based devices...

This may be another rumor based in pure conjecture but saying that a VZW iPhone is impossible due to the different technology is purely ignorant.
@dtroyerSMU LTE is a CDMA-based technology. It has nothing to do with GSM.
@dtroyerSMU LTE is entirely new. The people using GSM are supporting it as their "4G" answer. So is Verizon. The only other major competition is WiMax, which is the Sprint/Clear/Comcast alternative you can get today in 40-something cities.

AT&T and Verizon will be very similar. Both are offering LTE at 700MHz, AT&T next summer on a 12MHz slot, Verizon by this year's end on their 20MHz slot. They'll have a frequency advantage over Sprint, who's at 2500MHz. Sprint has a ton of bandwidth there (90MHz in many areas), but propagation is lower, and 2500MHz fares much worse through buildings and foliage than 700MHz.

T-Mobile has not yet annouced a 4G plan... they simply cranked up their HSPA+ network to offer speeds similar to the "4G" companies. Which is easy, since no one's actually giving you 4G performance. Sprint/Comcast/Clear peak at about 12Mb/s down, Verizon's talking of maybe 12-15Mb/s, but they will have a cap. T-Mo's HSPA+ cap is about 21Mb/s.

Of course, real world performance will vary, and "4G" is a just a marketing term for these guys. The ITU standard for 4G calls for 100Mb/s peak downloads for mobile devices, 1Gb/s for stationary. We have to wait for that...
@cyberslammer Hate to agree with you but if the Ver-iPhone happens this year / early next it will have a pretty negative impact on potential for WP7. Had AT&T/Cingular for many years (company std carrier) and absolutely hated the service. Very poor coverage. Finally able to switch to Verizon a couple of years ago and very happy with coverage area / connectivity. Win 6.2 mobi phone - works fine but was waiting for WP7 on Verizon. Since that isn't planned until late 2Q11 was looking at Droid options this fall. Far from being an Apple fan but will take a serious look if they add Verizon service. May be in the minority but end of the day actually need to use these to also make phone calls....
@cyberslammer unless Mr. Jobs has cut a similar deal regarding Apple's control of the iPhone ecosystem I wouldn't jump to Verizon. I had Verizon for over a decade and while ok, as a phone service it was just fine (AT&T is just as good IMHO) when it came to controlling any other 'feature' like games it was a horror show.
If you think Jobs is a control freak wait till the big V muscles into the neighborhood. Take a look at the crapware they foist off on Android sets and you'll se what I mean.
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That pic is so photoshopped!
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OMGNOWAI
Ktroje 6th Oct 2010
NT
Hey the WSJ is saying it's confirmed by sources inside Apple...
@joebob2000 No, the article simply said the info came from 'people briefed by Apple'.

Quite frankly, this news makes no sense at all. Why would they release an iPhone 4 model on Verizon just when they're about to change the form factor and update the phone hardware? This is just another rumor.
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RE: Verizon and Apple iPhone could make some LTE magic
Pete "athynz" Athens 6th Oct 2010
@eMJayy This may be a rumor but if they are changing the form factor and update the hardware would adding a different antenna (CDMA or LTE) be very difficult?
@joebob2000 Just like every other rumor about it was "confirmed by sources at Apple" or "confirmed by a supplier". It's complete bull.
If real it will keep me on Verizon. My contracts ending and I have been waiting but was close to my limit on patience.
"Apple was losing share by being exclusive to AT&T. A Verizon Wireless-iPhone should move more units and give Apple a major shot of doubling distribution in the U.S."
I wonder just how many ATT iPhone users who's plan is up will switch to Verizon and get the phone vs new iPhone users?
@coachgeorge

There will likely be quite a few of both groups. The iPhone will benefit greatly from a wider distribution network. I believe a lack of broad availability for the iPhone is the primary reason the Droid has been successful thus far. Regardless of what the fanboys say, the Droid really is a cheaper less secure iPhone. It's where people go who want an iPhone, but aren't AT&T subscribers.

The Droid is dealing with the consequences of stealing Java, getting hit with unprecedented security vulnerabilities, the launch of Windows Phone 7, and now the wider availability of the iPhone. Sounds like that momentum is starting to dry up a little.
@Tiggster
Listen to yourself. Stealing Java. Ha!!
@Tiggster Not this Droid user... I know the iPhone extremely well... I'm surrounded by it. If I want it, I would have had no problem with AT&T... it's one of the two (with Verizon) that reach my house. It's good in my area, and not terribly overcroweded.

But IMHO, as a techie, the iPhone just sucked. On many levels. No interest. I stuck with my Palm until there was a decent enough Android phone, one with the features I wanted. That's the original Motorola Droid, and yeah, I was in-line last November at 6AM when they first went on sale. Best phone ever -- never looked back at the inflexible, non-multitasking, low-resolution iPhone of the day (well, ok, they've fixed one-and-a-half of those problems since then).
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RE: Verizon and Apple iPhone could make some LTE magic
Pete "athynz" Athens 6th Oct 2010
@coachgeorge Not I - I have a BB with VZW and I get far better reception at work with my iPhone with AT&T than I do with my BB.
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We'll see.
frabjous 7th Oct 2010
@coachgeorge The Wall St. Journal article noted that AT&T said over four fifths of its contract subscribers are on family or business plans which, the Journal said, "would make switching to a new carrier more burdensome." We'll see. I've not seen any analysis of how many cellphone customers are still on contract with AT&T or any other carrier, but it is obviously changing month to month.
At least until AT&T catches up with its own 4G network.

That said, the people hurt most by an LET-based iPhone are going to be the folks selling Android-based phones. Android made headway in the market place in large part BECAUSE the iPhone was not avaialble from VerizonWireless.

it is a cutthroat market to be sure.
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@mwagner@... Android devices are now also caught up in a race to the bottom. Since Google basically lets carriers do whatever they want to Android and ship it on mediocre hardware, its inevitable that a large number of poor Android devices are surfacing. Those who just want a low-end smartphone will be happy with Android, but those seeking a higher quality product will likely go elsewhere.
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Took 'em long enough!
PC Ferret 6th Oct 2010
I still like Android better though.
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Wow, if you hated AT&T's coverage, you'll really be unhappy with this.

Since there's no backward compatibility from LTE to CDMA, it would have to have two radios - and a bigger size, shorter battery life and a seamless handoff between the radios, not to mention the disparate networks. Or, if it's LTE only, you'd live with extremely limited coverage until through 2014 when Verizon will finish it's 4G buildout.

It's a level playing field though - ALL Verizon phones will have that problem going forward.

All the GSM carriers will NOT have that problem though, because there is back-compatibility between 4G LTE and 3G GSM.
@panzrwagn@...
Do you not think that this may be addressed? I mean come on guys....A little logic please.
There is backward compatibility from LTE to CDMA as well as GSM.

By the way, it will take the GSM carriers just as long to build out their LTE networks. All carriers need new base stations, antennas, and an all-IP core. So having GSM gives you no advantage.

This is all new for everybody!
@panzrwagn@... All 4G phones have 3G fallback, just as all 3G phones have 2G fallback. Duh.
Wait til non-techies who bought droid exit the system.
Then watch Windows Phone 7 take off.
Off course iPhone will be around, just like MAC has
always been around.
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@loudstupidjerk

You're comparing the iPhone's sustainability to the Mac? I agree that WP7 will make inroads, but even to suggest that the iPhone will be replaced by WP7 at this point is presumptuous at best. I'm very exciting about WP7, will be purchasing a device within days after it launches, and am currently developing an XNA based game for it, so it would be safe to say I'm investing in the platform. However, even I am not under the illusion that it will overtake the iPhone and eventually relegate it to Mac status in the smartphone market. Don't be like the other fanboys here and check logic and reason at the door. LOL
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unfortunately, your logic does not persist as well....
dtroyerSMU Updated - 6th Oct 2010
@Tiggster ...iPhone will not always be on top as with any product, company or idea....there will be always someone to knock off the leaders with a completely unthought of idea that none of these giants will ever come close to.....history shows this to be the case for all that seat themselves in high places and brag about their success...........
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@Tiggster Nicely said and I agree. They are eagerly awaiting WP7 here. We have BB, iPhone, Android phones here. WP7 could help the enteprise with the headaches the other two have caused, however, they have worked through the problems by now.
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RE: Verizon and Apple iPhone could make some LTE magic
Pete "athynz" Athens 6th Oct 2010
@loudstupidjerk WP7 is essentially too little too late...
I've used both IPhone and Android phones (have 4 of them). I prefer my EVO4 hands down over the IPhone. Now as a developer on both platforms I have issues with both. The JAVA stuff is a pain in the butt for those trying to do performance based apps (like myself). As the bulk of my current project is on the NDK side. IPhone you are saddled with Objective C, which has its own issues, mainly around style. Not that I think it will compete, but I am interested in the Meego platform (native access with support for QT and GTK, we'll see though). The Windows 7 Phone platform will blow like all of the previous ones. Microsoft has never been good at small device development as they try to take a rather bloated OS and shrink it down to work on a phone or MID. Hasn't worked so far, don't expect it will get better I develop on all fo the above as well as the desktop counterparts and don't have major preferences (just depends on what my clients need). Either way, diversity in the market place will drive better products and will continually provide engineers like me more interesting platforms to play with.
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@gbohrn - You typed that up like you haven't actually tried developing for the Windows Phone 7 platform.

I have, and Windows Phone 7 app development platform is Silverlight for apps and XNA for games. Already established and actually pretty easy to use. I downloaded the SDK and created a few apps for the emulator. Sure it has some limitations but it doesn't "blow".

Good try though.
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Wait! Real Numbers on 3G vs 4G
panzrwagn@... 6th Oct 2010
Turns out that AT&Ts 3g is overall about as fast as Sprint's 4G, with a bunch less latency. http://chris.pirillo.com/3g-vs-4g-speed-tests/

A whole new crop of consumers is going to learn about bandwidth/latency as the throughput killer.
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RE: Verizon and Apple iPhone could make some LTE magic
tomlin21-24319035676893835085146735905770 11th Oct
It can be this sort of a incredible football jersey reference you could be providing and you also give it absent for extensively zero fee.

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