Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

What enterprise still uses IE 6? Try Intel

By | March 1, 2010, 2:37am PST

Internet Explorer 6 is a relic, but corporations continue to cling to it. At this point, IE 6 in the enterprise is common, but it’s nonetheless surprising when Intel—Microsoft’s long-time partner—is still using the ancient browser.

In a blog post walking through its implementation of Windows 7, Intel talked a lot about the “heavy lifting” involved with moving from XP to Windows 7.

Turns out the browser is part of the heavy lifting. Intel writes:

The requirement to use Internet Explorer 8 introduces even more challenges.  Intel has delayed deployment of IE7 and IE 8 in our intranet due to known issue with some very important applications.  With the move to Windows 7, IE8 becomes a “must have” compatibility.  IE8 does offer an IE7 compatibility mode, which can mitigate some issues, but other applications are written to require IE6, and mitigation of these issues must be addressed.  There are also known issues with such things as Office Web Components, IE plug-ins, java versions, etc., that can really make this a challenge.

In a nutshell, despite security concerns, users that are tired of a primitive browser and other issues IE 6 chugs along—even at Intel.

Ed Bott: It’s time to stop using IE6 More on IE 6: Die IE6! DIE!!! Will switching from Internet Explorer make you safer? If IE6 decommissioned; Google attack may never have happened? Microsoft’s compatibility conundrum: When is it wrong to do the ‘right’ thing?

Intel’s post is also notable because it highlights user account control (UAC) as a implementation challenge for a company its size—more than 80,000 users. Intel skipped Vista, but was an early partner with Microsoft on Windows 7. However, Windows 7 is still a lot of work.

Intel writes:

What does all of this mean?  It means that a significant amount of work needs to be invested to prepare for Windows 7 application readiness. Comprehensive application inventories,  application owner engagement, user segment analysis, test environments, testing workflow, remediation plans & tools, and “safety net” environments all have to be managed.

In an update to the post, Intel said that it sees value in moving to Windows 7 and plans to cut operating costs by $11 million over the next three years by moving to the latest operating system. However, those savings don’t amount to anything more than a rounding error for Intel, which had operating expenses of $13.8 billion in 2009.

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Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic.

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Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan has nothing to disclose. He doesn’t hold investments in the technology companies he covers.

Biography

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic. He was most recently Executive Editor of News and Blogs at ZDNet. Prior to that he was executive news editor at eWeek and news editor at Baseline. He also served as the East Coast news editor and finance editor at CNET News.com. Larry has covered the technology and financial services industry since 1995, publishing articles in WallStreetWeek.com, Inter@ctive Week, The New York Times, and Financial Planning magazine. He's a graduate of the Columbia School of Journalism and the University of Delaware.

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RE: What enterprise still uses IE 6? Try Intel
makrejktt48-24353614433154813928226228864324 4th Nov
amxezz,good post!
simply restrict it's use to the intranet only, and don't allow traffic to/from the internet.

I have XP sp2 on a VM under ubuntu and combined with the free zonealarm it is painfully easy. If corporations upgrade to Win7 even a cheap dual-core 2gb+ should be able to run XP virtualized without a performance hit at all.

VMware workstation is nice it allows seamless windowing so you don't even notice you have a vm session at all. painless...
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Be careful for what computer you're choosing to buy.
The best solution might be for Intel to switch to AMD.
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Hold your breath.
rshores 1st Mar 2010
This will happen about the same time that Apple programmers use Windows machines.
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RE: What enterprise still uses IE 6? Try Intel
cut157 Updated - 18th Aug 2010
CSS has released a solution running Virtual IE6/IE7/IE8 on any Windows OS including Windows 7 leveraging Microsoft App-V; Solution could be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cccFGXORmE
Even if they had no plans to move to Vista testing it would have gone a long way towards identifying issues and giving them the chance to work towards a resolution before the release of Windows 7.
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Naaah, that would require foresight. (nt)
Lester Young 1st Mar 2010
.
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Yes, they did
de-void-21165590650301806002836337787023 1st Mar 2010
They found that many of their internal applications, many of which are essential to their business, were not written following MS' guidelines and so would require modification, testing and re-deployment before they'd work on Vista/Win7.

Like many companies, Intel has many thousands of internally developed applications. Many of these apps have been around for YEARS and were build by teams of contractors with little architectural oversight. I know many of their apps, for example, write data to subfolders of the Registry's HKLM rather than HKCU resulting in frequent UAC pop-ups.

Alas, for all their chip-building prowess, they invest very little in maintaining their internal infrastructure. This is why they're still predominantly on XP today!
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Old, time honored, saying:
Yam Digger 1st Mar 2010
The shomaker's son walks bare foot.
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Seriously?
brunerd Updated - 1st Mar 2010
"I know many of their apps, for example, write data to subfolders of
the Registry's HKLM rather than HKCU resulting in frequent UAC pop-
ups."

What?! Seriously?! Man... I remember thinking back when ActiveX
came on the scene in IE 3 and what a BAD IDEA? that was for security
(I know there's more security now and all that hoo-hah) but why in
God's name does a web app need to write to your registry? That's
seriously messed up...

It's like corporate America is saying:
"Please China and all other corporate espionage outfits, come take all
our IP, we don't want it, we have left the doors wide open, send some
user an enticing link and own owr corporate boxes, PLEASE, we are
practically begging you!"

Gosh, do they have pages with Frontpage extensions they need to
migrate too :P
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Every App. does that
Who Am I Really 1st Mar 2010
Every Application writes to the registry, I haven't seen one that doesn't,
get a copy of SysInternals Process Monitor;
start it and set the display to auto scroll and watch the list as it scrolls by with everything that's open accessing reading & writing to the registry,
as a test, I opened Process Monitor and then opened notepad, which generated almost a full page of registry events, just to open it.
everything you do on windows is recorded in the registry.
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We've tested IE8 with our VB apps, and we've found they don't work under IE8. It's not my area, but I spent 20 minutes trying to tweak security settings on IE8, virtually disabling all of the security on IE8, and it still wouldn't work. I ended up uninstalling IE8 and going back to IE7 so I could use those apps.
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Um...
wolf_z 1st Mar 2010
VB apps don't actually use a browser to run...do you perhaps mean VBScript web apps?
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He means ActiveX VB 6 Apps...
cosuna 1st Mar 2010
Heard that story from a friend...

Seems the security scope of IE8 is broken or over paranoid. People are having trouble executing simple VB 6 ActiveX plugins in IE8 which should run. One friend of mine told me it's worst on Vista SP3 (have no idea if Windows 7 remedied this).

Bottom Line: There's lot's of inhouse ActiveX "enhancements" that can't cope with UAC and Vista/7 strange file system. Those are no longer maintained 'cause there's very few people who know VB 6 at this time.
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Hey Intel:
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh Updated - 1st Mar 2010
upgrade your apps to make them compatible.

If not their best bet is to Virtualize IE6, using an Application Virtualizer or use remote app, and as another user suggested, limit it to be able to work on the local Intranet only.

Running IE6 Intel and others are a big target.
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I work for a Fortune 50 company that is still stuck in the XP/IE6 time warp, and from what I know, there are no plans to upgrade. The bigger the company, the more out of control the IT environment gets. We have distributed, enterprise Java apps (yuck) that would break in IE7 or 8 and so we trudge along with ancient XP and (dangerous) IE6. Probably 5 years from now we will still be using them (sad).
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i feel your pain
Valis Keogh 1st Mar 2010
i'm at a large regional hospital with 5000
desktops, we're anchored to xp/ie6 by a ge
centricity medical records software package. to
add insult to injury, parts of this software
require java 1.4 to run. so not only old
browser, but old java, then when an app comes
along that requires a NEW version of java you
have to kludge something together to get
everything to work just right, then of course
after you do this enough times it seems as if
just the slightest odd breeze can make the
machine crash hard.

fun times.
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Same app and same problem here.
dave@... 1st Mar 2010
I have to go through the same conversation every time someone asks why we aren't on IE7 or IE8. The worst part is some of the websites the billers here use no longer support IE6 so I have to have them use Firefox instead.
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JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY...
barefoot1976 1st Mar 2010
Would you not say that the actual problem with this (and other people's similar stories here) situation is the fact that the vendors is the problem? I mean, a vendor creates a program for IE6 and is too lazy to fix it for IE7-8?

The medical industry seems the worst at this situation! My Cardiologist (who is also a good personal friend) has the same story, in that their system is on wi-fi, but uses (and he's stuck with) Windows 2000, because his medical programs vendor won't update it for even XP! I asked him if they had tried to use XP and he told me that they did, and the entire system crashed and they had to get back to 2000 to come back up!

I think a lot of our problems in the computing world is NOT Windows vs Mac vs Linux, but really lazy programmers that want to get their software to market as quick as possible, and so they write it with archaic tools, and when it doesn't work with Windows Vista, they tell you "it's not designed to do that! You need to stay with XP!"
I get tired of hearing this! When I show a client how fast and secure Win7 is, then find out that his software for his printers won't work with it, and the Vendor will not provide an upgrade to make it work. Even though his machines will upgrade to Win7, of course he's NOT going to buy new printers to do so until he has too. Whatcha think?
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RE: What enterprise still uses IE 6? Try Intel
Loverock Davidson 1st Mar 2010
I can understand why they want to stay with IE6, but for me I upgraded to IE7 then IE8 almost immediately. The tabs were a must have feature. No more multiple windows, just one window with multiple tabs.
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I hope IE6 doesn't die
Wintel_BSOD 2nd Mar 2010
It's the best tool out there for damaging Micro$oft's reputation even more.

No amount of shill spin's gonna change that.

lol... grin
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Vista and now win7 is a complete rip off of the KDE open source project, and a decade after the fact MS finally got the point and stole tabbed browsing from Mozilla.

Just like with DOS on day one, Microsoft never innovates, they steal then intimidate.

Careful turning your lights on and off in your house, you are violating a Microsoft patent doing so. Thank God I got a smart meter and installed an app that charges my credit card to Microsoft every time the power consumption goes up or down by 60, 75 or 100 watt increments, watching over my shoulder for Microsoft patent lawyers every time I flipped a switch in my house was really wearing me down.

I got a nice Novell bumper sticker out of the deal, too. Shiny and green. I'm easily amused.

Speaking of green, Microsoft is about to get a patent on oxygen. Not a moment too soon, I say. I've ordered a portable sealed breathing chamber you wear on your head like the helmet of a space suit. It monitors your oxygen consumption and debits your credit card to Microsoft for every breath you take, in real time.

It only weighs 40 pounds and you can't hear anything when you're wearing it, but that is a small price to pay for insuring my due royalties are paid for my selfish, gluttonous consumption of Microsoft's global oxygen supply.

I offered to install mass metering devices on my toilets, also wirelessly hooked to my debit account, but Microsoft said no thanks: they had an over abundance of that substance coming out of their OS development team, but thanks anyway, Citizen.
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RE: yep, tabs stolen from open source
fatman65535 2nd Mar 2010
You owe me a new keyboard and monitor!!

The last paragraph is priceless!

ASAIAC, I left Internet Exploder 6 behind over 5 years ago when I switched to Firefox. Haven't regretted it either.
0 Votes
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IE 6 etc.
dhays 2nd Mar 2010
Tabs are nice, but I still get separate windows unless I open the tab myself.
We are still using IE 6 for much of th esame reasons that Intel has listed. This year we will be migrating to W7 and IE 8, and O2010. I did have an add-in to IE 6 for a while that provided tabbed browsing. As for other browsers, some applications are written for IE only and do not work in others (at least in Firefox)
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Try the DoD
gtvr 1st Mar 2010
yes, still IE6
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Re: Try the DoD
Simba7 1st Mar 2010
Oh ya.. I've been through this a decade ago. Actually, I got into a little trouble for it.

My ship was still running DOS and Windows 3.1 in 1999. Well, I took one of the workstations, made a small partition on it, and installed Windows 98SE on it. I downloaded the proper Novell Netware client and the proper apps and made it completely transparent and compatible with the network.

Well.. once word got out, I got chewed out. Even though I thoroughly tested it and used the existing license for Windows 98SE on the workstation, *they* didn't have it completely tested yet.. even though I had technically a working "prototype".

When I got out at the end of 2001, they were running NT4 on all the *brand new* P3 workstations. *shrug*

In the end, if you're part of the DoD (or a branch of the Military), if it ain't broke, don't upgrade it either.
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We recently made the switch to IE8
Spats30 1st Mar 2010
At the corp I work, we had the same concerns about
moving forward as any other large corp/company.
Here's how we accomplished moving to IE8, and maybe
this will work for some others out there.

1. Get some boxes or CITRIX installations with IE 8
running.

2. Make a list of all the web applications out there.

3. Get all the individuals/groups involved with day-
to-day use of those apps, and have them test and
document any issues.

4. Any web-apps with issues/concerns, try to address
those with the vendor/developer or various
configuration options at the app level or IE8 level.

--- to this point, this could take a two-three months
---

5. Keep IE6 around, but only on CITRIX desktops or
some other boxes that business users can log or
otherwise remote into that environment.

6. Upgrade all the standard desktops in the company
to IE8, and set the Smart Screen Filtering options by
default.

7. Celebrate!!!


Really, it's not that bad. And most apps that work on
IE6 will work with IE8. There's very few people in
this corp that still need IE6 for a daily task -- very
few!!! And if/when they do, they just log into a
CITRIX desktop that has IE6 and they're good to go.
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Citrix
hforman@... 1st Mar 2010
Did you know that, not only do you need Citrix licenses, Microsoft requires you to have Terminal Services licenses, even if you use Citrix? Anything costing money these days is nixed by management.
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Recent switch to IE8.
fatman65535 2nd Mar 2010
(rant)

Didn't you get the memo!!!

The economy sucks, costs have to be cut, and additional licenses for migration software were nixed by the corporate bean counters.

YOU HAVE TO DO MORE WITH LESS!!!!!!!!!

(/rant)
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At least
Cylon Centurion 1st Mar 2010
They're moving off of it. There is a right way (Here) and a wrong way (Google) to still be running IE6.
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Right, Nicholas
Wintel_BSOD 2nd Mar 2010
It's easy to engage in semantics, now isn't it...
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Long Live IE6
theo_durcan 1st Mar 2010
Remember we are talking here about The Standard. What do you do with a standard? You preserve it; if not, what's the point?

Funny to see the same sheep that were chanting the necessity to adhere to the Standard, now they are trying to simulate an stampede, sort of, so nobody ask the real questions: Who allowed this **** to flourish? How come something so good 3 years ago is so bad now?
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You nailed it... right on...
cosuna 1st Mar 2010
Enough said...
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support!
Al_nyc 1st Mar 2010
The answer is obvious. It's a bad browser that is no longer supported so that all the known vulnerabilities have exploits out in the wild.

I have to wonder why a company would use an app tied so closely to a browser. If you want a web app stick with one that stays within standards used by multiple browsers. That way when there is a problem with one browser you can easily switch to a different one.
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To answer your question....
Lester Young 1st Mar 2010
..because a lot of custom software developers and IT departments suck.
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Correction:
Wintel_BSOD 2nd Mar 2010
..because a lot of custom Windoze software developers and IT departments suck.
If you use MS development environments, they tend to push you that
direction and then not necessarily support those things later. I have
developed ASP.NET apps with MS Visual studio and ASP.NET for many
years and have to go out of the way to make the resulting app use web
standards so that they work in the most popular browsers. MS wants
stuff to only work in IE so that people will blame other browsers when
stuff doesn't work. Of course, when they break it in their own new
browsers, well that casts a light on the whole thing. This is much of my
reasons for switching to other web development environments when
given the choice.
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How old are your MS dev tools?
Lester Young 1st Mar 2010
Many years? Keep using them if you want to hate Microsoft.
In the company I work for, we use Visual Studio from version 2005 to 2010 to make web-based systems and with correct procedures and good knowledge about web standards we haven't needed any "hack" to make our websites work properly on IE7, IE8, Firefox 3.5, Opera and Safari. Heck, our pages even renders pretty well on mobile browsers (Safari on iPhone, Nokia browsers and Opera Mini). Proper rendering of pages is an important thing for our company which focus a lot on design terms.
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COM objects,
using the registry to hold app data,
Active X,
Browser-side VBScript in IE,

And dev tools such as Visual Studio 6 with SOM objects, and Visual Studio 2003 outputting substandard HTML...

Microsoft is partly to blame by not respecting standards, bad software architecture, and by advocating or paving the way for bad programming practices. Some of this was to promote proprietary development, and this is biting them back because their poor proprietary software architecture is hurting Microsoft's own ability to push their own customers to upgrade.

But I'll say, in balance, that Microsoft is improving these days. Visual Studio 2005 onward outputs good HTML, but even then, MS is pushing obtuse & poor proprietary programming practices.
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Not supported?
lfmorrison 1st Mar 2010
"It's a ... browser that is no longer supported..."

In accordance with Microsoft's lifecycle, as an integrated component of a supported operating system, IE6 still receives security hotfixes, and it will continue to do so until the end of Windows XP's extended product support lifecycle - that is, until April 8, 2014.

Perhaps by "not supported", you meant to say that there is no version of IE6 that can run on any of MS's recent operating systems. But for those operating systems where it does run, if the OS is still receiving support, the browser is too.

As for the other comment about it being a "bad" browser: no argument here.
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Who said it was so good 3 years ago? (nt)
Lester Young 1st Mar 2010
.
0 Votes
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The people pushing it.
deanders 1st Mar 2010
New! Improved! is not exactly a novel idea.
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seems you have a very short memory
theo_durcan 1st Mar 2010
make an effort, you never praised IE6? I know many now they wont admit...
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Re: Long Live IE6
Jamik 2nd Mar 2010
it was never good even 3 years ago, but people
drank Microsoft's Kool-aid back then and some many
still do today.
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But the payoff is great... yeah right!

It's the first time I see a post on ZDNet that accurately describes the uphill battle Windows 7 has on the corporate world.

I guess Intel's biting the bullet due to Microsoft's leverage at the company. I think that most people inside Intel could care less that their PC are gonna run Windows 7, but (deep inside) fear they will be set on an island, trying to handle customers queries with no way of replicating them as they will be running a different OS from 70%-80% of their installed base.

It seems every monopoly has a way to destroy itself every N years, probably by hubris, probably by careless implemented so called "innovation" but most probably by corporate rot, which lets "pathogens" inside the company kill the useful elements inside.
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Not a big problem here
rcfoulk@... 1st Mar 2010
First, for the majority of business users XP is all the OS they need. The OS is functionally an application starter for the typical users and works just fine, so continued usage in a business environment doesn't mean IT is from a cave culture. All the so-called bells and whistles of Vista/Win7 are fine for the techno-geekorroti and home users but would be negated by business group policies anyway. As for applications that require IE6, use it for that and then something like Firefox, which is not a technological high jump, for web browsing. Not rocket science with respect to problem solving folks. Since Win7 actually can make better use of newer hardware it would make sense for those doing heavy, CPU-dependent processes like statistical analysis, but for office automation applications, SQL apps and browsing, the vast bulk of business computing, XP is just fine. Like many we will switch when there is a real compelling reason to justify costs and trouble. It's not there yet.
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Major defense company with 120,000+ employees
IE6 was the official browser until 3rd Q last year, or so.
Win XP is still the official OS.
XP is fine for what I do, but IE6... good thing I was able to install FireFox on my own...
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RE: What enterprise still uses IE 6? Try Intel
ERRM130578 Updated - 1st Mar 2010
The only ones stunned that use them they are the inhabitants of countries where the technology hardly arrives.

You should visit China, for example, or Vietnam: suddenly you get yourself with which they not only use IE6, but until Win98! :P
0 Votes
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Please!
Do you seriously believe that in the 2050 we will see a robust North America? IF NOT THEY CAN RIGHT NOW WITH THEIR SECURITY! Not be dreamer, for god!
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RE: What enterprise still uses IE 6? Try Intel
makrejktt48-24353614433154813928226228864324 4th Nov
amxezz,good post!

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ie8 fix

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ie8 fix