Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

WSJ: 'Samsung beating Apple' in smartphone sales race

By | October 24, 2011, 4:01am PDT

Summary: The race for the top smartphone spot continues, as Samsung and Apple battle it out over share statistics. Who is on top: Apple or Samsung? Nobody really knows.

A source speaking to Wall Street Journal this morning claims that Apple is selling fewer of its iPhone handsets than Samsung, as the two companies continue to come to blows over patents in each others’ devices.

Unconfirmed figures suggest that Samsung saw between 20 and 30 million shipments of its smartphones in the third quarter, while Apple said earlier this week that it would just over 17 million in the last fiscal quarter, ending September 24th.

Nokia also reported slightly less smartphone sales at 16.8 million in total, but overall sales are expected to be far higher for the Finnish phone giant as its main sales fall within the emerging market.

Granted, on the face of it, Apple has a smaller spread of only three iPhone handsets — the third-generation iPhone 3GS, the iPhone 4 and the recently announced iPhone 4S — while Samsung has many more.

But Samsung historically does not disclose publicly its smartphone shipment figures, as the Wall Street Journal notes.

Earlier this year, IDC ‘confirmed’ that Apple was leading the smartphone race with 19.1 percent of the 106 million smartphones shipped in Q2. Samsung was in second place with 17.3 percent share.

comScore statistics in August showed that one in four phones in the United States was a Samsung smartphone, with Research in Motion’s BlackBerry smartphone range and Motorola losing ground.

Having said that, as Apple’s iPhone sales continue to grow at a rapid rate from four million sales in the first weekend alone, it is likely that the two could battle it out to the nearest thousand, as the two lead the global marketshare race.

Arguably, however, it is not the phone that matters as such. The real battle falls back down to the mobile operating system, for which the two companies continue to come to blows over. With the Steve Jobs biography out today, the late Apple co-founder declared “thermonuclear war” over the Android operating system, after he claimed it was “stolen” from Apple.

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Zack Whittaker, a criminologist who studied at the University of Kent, Canterbury, is a journalist, writer and broadcaster.

Disclosure

Zack Whittaker

I worked briefly with Microsoft UK in 2006 but no longer have any connection with the company. Regardless, I remain impartial and unbiased in my views.

I don't hold any stock or shares, investments or industrial secrets in any company, but have signed confidentiality agreements with a number of UK and U.S. organisations, whose names I am not at liberty to disclose.

I was involved with Kent Union, the University of Kent's student union, undertaking voluntary, non-salaried, elected positions between early 2009 and mid-2010.

No other company, body, government department, non-governmental organisation or third sector organisation employs me or pays me a salary in any capacity whatsoever.

As a freelance journalist, whenever expenses are given and taken by a company that is not CBS Interactive, these will be disclosed in each relevant post to ensure transparency.

I currently work with a UK law enforcement unit, but this is an entirely separate position which bears no connection to other work.

(Updated: 23rd October 2011)

Biography

Zack Whittaker

Zack Whittaker, criminologist who studied at the University of Kent, UK, is a journalist, writer and broadcaster.

After studying criminology at university, though still in his early-20's, he has already had a series unconventional work and voluntary positions. He has worked with researchers studying neurological illnesses like Tourette's syndrome (which he suffers from), has given lectures on the nature of disabilities in the public community, and occasionally ends up speaking on television and radio discussing the events of the day.

He first had academic work published at the age of 22, then still an undergraduate, and has been cited by a wide range of publications: from CNN, the Huffington Post, AllThingsDigital, The Atlantic Wire and CBS News.

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WP7 is still "the new kid on the block", and it's success will be defined
adornoe@... 27th Oct
by what happens with Nokia, and the others who might be waiting to see what happens with Nokia, and that includes the service providers.

Microsoft has been relatively quiet this whole year after the initial release of the OS, but, that could be because, they didn't want to steal the thunder from their primary partner, namely, Nokia. My belief is that, if there hadn't been a Nokia partnership, Microsoft would've done more marketing and would've created more "special" relationships with other manufacturers, and, who knows, perhaps their sales might have been "considerable". But, the partnership with Nokia took precedence, and it's now that we should start seeing movement of WP7.
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Shipped vs Sold?
tk_77 24th Oct
The Samsung numbers are shipped, and the Apple numbers are sales. Would be nice for a change if we could actually compare apples with apples (pun intended). I realize this is just based on what the companies choose to report, so Samsung should release some sales figures. If they really did sell 20 mil phones then great for them, good job. But then again, if they did sell that many, why not report it? You would think they would be eager to show up Apple any chance they get.
@tk_77 No they are not... Apple counts shipped as sold so it is impossible to say how many actually sold... I don't know why this is so hard to understand for you guys.

Believe me, I am no fan of samsung and I honestly think their phones are garbage. I think if they are not careful they are going to get hit for dumping again.
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+1. Agreed. But most of the times Apple's Shipped numbers lead closely to sold numbers, and normally their inventory will be out in the first few weeks of launch and after that it slows down, and settles.
@Peter Perry which is approx. 2-3.. Samsung doesn't give such numbers which makes those shipped number pretty much useless...
@Peter Perry
that's BS! Samsung wins due to the power of the OSS.
@doctorSpoc they don't give those numbers because they are not as closely tied to any retail channel... Apple can estimate based on how many their stores sold.
@Peter Perry 'Samsung historically does not disclose publicly its smartphone shipment'

Zachary, is this ignorance or prejudice? Why repeat obviously false information?

Samsung disclosed their sales of smartphones to the very last quarter, when Samsung announced that they will be not disclosing smartphone sales any more.

So now ???sources??? can freely go to media and claim Samsung sold gazillion of smartphones.
@Peter Perry Regardless of the topic your comment on how you feel about Samsung is pretty meaningless since your hatred for Apple will overshadow any feelings about any other company/product being discussed.
@tk_77

Apple's 4 million sales in the first week are from the fanatics that think the product is gold!
@rob.sharp@... They were mostly upgrades... Apple is #1 in repeat sales.
@rob.sharp@... If that were true do you think that any other company wouldn't be extremely happy to have that many fanatics?

@Peter Perry And that is the goal of ALL companies so your point is?
@the Linux geek Android is Great, Samsung Hardware, not so reliable in my opinion.
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It's already been proven that Samsung will exaggerate their sales figures - anyone else remember how Samsung claimed "shipped" Galaxy Tab tablets as "sold"? I'm not saying Apple does or does not do this - Samsung was caught at it.

I'm also interested in seeing sales figures of each and comparing them - sold not shipped.
@Pete "athynz" Athens There's no catching them at it, this is fully Disclosed and investors jump on board when you switch to this model because it always means higher returns in the next quarters financials.
Who cares who sells how many of which phone? People act like they have some personal vested interest in this... are you a shareholder? Buy the phone that works best for you, it is as simple as that. Really, do you have to hate the other company's products? It's just silly.
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Nice to know
rhonin 24th Oct
As a headline nice to see there is decent competition between Apple and Samsung for phones.
Other than that....

I like them both.
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dsgdsfg
chunhaigg 24th Oct
Nokia was third?!? What decent phone does Nokia even HAVE anymore?? Where is HTC... seems, beside Samsung (and Apple, of course), that's the ONLY nameplate I actually see on the devices people are carrying around in the real world nowadays.
@csteinola Nokia's current phones look like iPhones or Androids from two years ago, mostly. The N-series isn't horrible, but more like last year's models.

However, keep in mind that only a few years back, Nokia held 60% of the Smartphone market, mostly SymbianOS. And the main reason they're falling off a cliff is that in February, Nokia announced that they would end both SymbianOS and Linux (Mameo, MeeGo, whatever) support and go all Windows 7 Phone. So many customers are fleeing, but I suppose SymbianOS fans may be grabbing up the last models available.

Either way, they've done an amazing job of destroying their market lead, and don't seem to be changing that tune. RIM's much the same. I mean, it was one thing to be blindsided by the iPhone. Even the rise of Android. But it's been long enough, and these guys are still making phones that simply don't compete anymore. That's why we tech geeks watch every iPhone introduction, most of the top Android device intros, but probably didn't even know that Nokia announced their first two Windows 7 Phone models just recently...
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Its nearly impossible for anyone to calculate the # of units sold unless the product is only being sold by a single outlet. If you shipped 10 iphones to that mom and pop electronic store, there is no way for you to know if all 10 were sold unless you contact them directly and hope they reply with a correct answer. Thats just not practical and nobody is going to go through that exercise. Nielsen ratings are based on a sampling because nielsen is not going to call up every home in america and ask them "did you watch dancing with the stars last night".

The estimate is an "estimate". Thats as good as you're going to get. But as history has soon, its a pretty good estimate and rarely proven wrong. So just deal with it.
@rengek You don't instantly. You do know over time... no one keeps taking new devices if they haven't sold the existing inventory.

This is an old saw pulled out to use against Samsung, because when they got the Galaxy Tab business just going, they had a fairly large shipment and a fairly small sell-though that first quarter. Much of which was simply issues at the retail end, not any big problem with eventual sell-through.

This is another place Apple's been very smart. You don't find lone Apple products in mom and pop stores as a rule, you find whole Apple departments in many big box stores. So when Apple has a new product, the wheels are perfectly geased for them: shelf space, trained staff, etc. Samsung doesn't have that problem with the Galaxy Phones, but it was an issue with the tablets. It's gone. But now some Apple fanboi will drag this out anytime Samsung numbers are mentioned... as if there's a warehouse somewhere taking millions of Tabs and S/SII devices every quarter and just hold them there.
@dave@... But now some Apple fanboi will drag this out anytime Samsung numbers are mentioned...
You mean like "your holding it wrong" or the countless other comments that haters constantly post in regard to Apple?
@rengek You think Apple doesn't know how many have been sold through to customers within a small percentage regardless of the fact they are sold through a ton of retailers? Of course they know since you have to set up the phone through iTunes.
Waaaaaa! Apple sucks.
WP7 would be the automatic leader almost overnight. Google and Apple might need to join forces to derail such an outcome.
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@adornoe@... People buy Samsung for both the hardware and the OS, I think. Android is a big part of the reason Samsung's been so successful, and they have no plans to drop it, particularly for W7P.

If they really had plans for W7P, they could certainly introduce flagship products based on the same hardware used for the Android devices, absolutely no need to drop Android first. But there's not yet any seriously proven demand for W7P. I suspect everyone's waiting on Nokia and their "special relationship" with Microsoft to see how that works out, before spending a great deal on an unknown.

Samsung also has their own OS, BadaOS. They haven't done much with it. Why? They like to make money. You can't force a phone OS on anyone. BadaOS might be a good idea for "feature" phones, but there's no demand for it in smartphones at this point.
by what happens with Nokia, and the others who might be waiting to see what happens with Nokia, and that includes the service providers.

Microsoft has been relatively quiet this whole year after the initial release of the OS, but, that could be because, they didn't want to steal the thunder from their primary partner, namely, Nokia. My belief is that, if there hadn't been a Nokia partnership, Microsoft would've done more marketing and would've created more "special" relationships with other manufacturers, and, who knows, perhaps their sales might have been "considerable". But, the partnership with Nokia took precedence, and it's now that we should start seeing movement of WP7.
Samsung is the best. Its taking pants off Apple......
'Samsung historically does not disclose publicly its smartphone shipment'

Zachary, is this ignorance or prejudice? Why repeat obviously false information?

Samsung disclosed their sales of smartphones to the very last quarter, when Samsung announced that they will be not disclosing smartphone sales any more.

So now ???sources??? can freely go to media and claim Samsung sold gazillion of smartphones.

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