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Hardy Heron is hardly a snap

By | April 28, 2008, 10:16am PDT

Summary: When I received my super-cool Android PC from Eric Burke he thoughtfully installed a copy of Ubuntu 7.10 for me, so naturally when the new Ubuntu 8.04 (”Hardy Heron”) was released I wanted to upgrade it to the latest and greatest version. “Installation is a snap,” writes Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Ubuntu is user-friendly and ready for [...]

When I received my super-cool Android PC from Eric Burke he thoughtfully installed a copy of Ubuntu 7.10 for me, so naturally when the new Ubuntu 8.04 (”Hardy Heron”) was released I wanted to upgrade it to the latest and greatest version. “Installation is a snap,” writes Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Ubuntu is user-friendly and ready for the mass market, so this should be easy, right?

Just to be sure, I asked a friend for advice on the best way to do it. “Wipe your disk and re-install from an ISO image,” he said. “If you have anything on the machine, make a backup first.” Eh? That seemed extreme to me. Since I have such a deep respect for my friend’s opinions, I proceeded to ignore his advice. That was my first mistake.

A little searching on the Ubuntu web site turned up these instructions. Following those instructions was my second mistake. First, it says, open System > Administration > Update manager. Aha, there’s a new release available:

Hardy Heron is hardly a snap

But wait, according to the destructions, first I have to make sure my previous release is up to date. So I click on the Check button, and sure enough, there are several updates for 7.10. I’ve been a bad boy, and haven’t been keeping up. So I click on Install Updates. That was my third mistake.

The download sites are just too overloaded to let me download the patches. I’d get one or two, install them, and start over. I could never get a complete set. After trying to install the updates for 2 days, I finally gave up.

I know somebody’s going to say, “use a mirror” like they told Jason Perlow. But do you see any instructions for using a mirror on that web page or in the dialog? You can’t have it both ways — either it’s ready for Joe Average to use or it’s not. I’m pretty sure Joe isn’t going to go hunting on newsgroups or digging through config files like /etc/apt/sources.list. Make him sit through one of these and he’s going to run screaming back to Windows, saying “Rebooting every Tuesday isn’t so bad”.

Long story short, I finally pushed the Upgrade button to install Hardy Heron. I watched it try to download things for a while on Friday but it was very slow so I let it go over the weekend. When I looked at it again Monday, the install had failed due to network errors. No big surprise there. So I started the upgrade again. It seems to be getting further this time, though I think the progress meter has said “About 11 minutes remaining” for the last 3 hours. Must be dog minutes or something.

It’ll work eventually, I’m sure. I’m just glad I don’t depend on this computer for any real work. Wait, now it says “10 minutes remaining”… Oh boy, can’t wait.

Update: A couple hours after I finished this post, the install finished without further errors, and I haven’t had any problems with actually running 8.04 so far.

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Ed Burnette is a software industry veteran with more than 25 years of experience as a programmer, author, and speaker. He has written numerous technical articles and books, most recently "Hello, Android: Introducing Google's Mobile Development Platform" from the Pragmatic Programmers.

Disclosure

Ed Burnette

Ed Burnette is a Manager of Mobile Development at SAS. However the postings on this site are his own and do not represent the positions, strategies, or opinions of his employer.

Biography

Ed Burnette

Ed Burnette has been hooked on computers ever since he laid eyes on a TRS-80 in the local Radio Shack. Since graduating from NC State University he has programmed everything from serial device drivers and debuggers to web servers. After a delightful break working on commercial video games, Ed reluctantly returned to business software. He currently develops enterprise software for Android phones and tablets.

In his copious spare time, Ed writes and speaks about all kinds of technology and software. His most recent books include the Eclipse IDE Pocket Guide from O'Reilly and Hello, Android: Introducing Google's Mobile Development Platform from the Pragmatic Programmers.

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Upgrading Ubuntu
wildnr1 Updated - 28th Oct 2008
Upgrades are ALWAYS trouble, also in ubuntu, unless you are the "standard" user that is just mailing, surfing and playing cards.
I suggest for all to take backups, for sooner or later you will have to reinstall. Not even ubuntu is capable of deleting or adjust everything that should in an upgrade.
Upgrades exist for people that are not capable to format their drives (they would delete the windows disk as well) and for lazy users that try to go the easy way and do not bather the trouble afterwards as long as the internet is working.
...of an older version. This old wisdom is valid for every operating system under the sun.

The possible problem lies in the settings and configurations of the older version. Sometimes they conflict with the new version.

If you want a smooth experience, I definitely advise you to download a fresh iso of 8.04.

Greetz, Pjotr. happy
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Contributr
If so then...
Ed Burnette 28th Apr 2008
If a clean install is always better, then why have an option for an upgrade at all?
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Actually
Yagotta B. Kidding 28th Apr 2008
If a clean install is always better, then why have an option for an upgrade at all?

They mostly work fine.

Clean installs work very nicely for systems that are centrally administered, since the critical settings (such as user account details) mostly aren't on the local system anyway. They also work well for users who are savvy enough to save copies of the critical files (e.g. /etc/passwd) first.

For the average user, updates preserve a lot of information that the user would prefer not redoing. Yes, there are possible issues. All in all, not bad.

The present situation is caused by a combination of factors, though:
1) Ubuntu is a victim of its own success, growing faster than the infrastructure.
2) The package managers aren't set up to use torrents for package distribution. Expect that to change.
3) Unlike some distributions, "update from CD" isn't an option either. I don't know if that's worth changing.

Me? I scored the Kubuntu .iso images for 32- and 64-bit desktop by torrent and am now seeding. Should hit parity sometime today.
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Good for some, but not for all
pjotr123 28th Apr 2008
Some people want such an option. And many of those who want it, are capable of dealing with potential upgrade issues. But not all.... happy
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Because other OSes have it
frgough 28th Apr 2008
and Linux is the me-too OS so they have to have it too. Even
if it doesn't work.
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Worked perfectly for me
tommyhigbee 29th Apr 2008
There's certainly something to be said for a clean install, but Ubuntu is based on Debian, and one thing it does very well is upgrades.

I used update manager, and the only downside is it took a lot longer to finish installing than it normally would have. That's probably because the Ubuntu servers were just getting hammered.

Best answer is to just wait a week or so after the new release first becomes available, then do the upgrade.
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Never Upgrade.
Joe.Smetona 28th Apr 2008
I worked for a CAD Engineering software company for 5 years. They never made an update. It was always a clean install of the new program. You would un-install the old program, and delete the remaining entries in program files. Some program install sets were 250 MB.

I downloaded the 8.04 ISO and used my older version to create the disk with K3B. I copied files and bookmarks to my flash drive and rebooted with the install disk.

20 minutes later I was up and running with no problems. I selected the Adobe Flash option in Firefox and it's working great.
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"upgrade" option
catseverywhere@... 28th Apr 2008
...because Linux developers are sadists.

I never do "upgrade" myself, with enough horror stories you'd think the lesson was learned.

Well, for the first time in 5 years I selected "upgrade," to upgrade Mandriva 2008.0 to 2008.1 "spring."

Turns out for the first time ever they shipped with a HUGE bug in the "upgrade" routine.

Took a couple weeks to resurrect. I really should have done a clean install. (still should, many lingering problems) but this machine is VERY unfriendly to Linux, it took over a month to get it right in the first place.

But yeah, thousands of installs/upgrades under my belt, on various distros, and I still don't trust any "upgrade" function.
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Contributr
Re: don't trust the upgrade function
Ed Burnette 28th Apr 2008
"But yeah, thousands of installs/upgrades under my belt, on various distros, and I still don't trust any 'upgrade' function."

FWIW, Eclipse is the same way. I always recommend people do a full install of Eclipse when going from, say, 3.3 to 3.4. But do they listen to me? Nope. What was that saying about stones and glass houses?
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If upgrading instead of wiping
devlin_X 29th Apr 2008
and reinstalling I recommend downloading the alternate CD (Ubuntu family only) and doing it from that. From my experience it is much faster and eliminates most of the network problems. Once the critical part of the upgrading is done then go on line and download the updates. Since using this method I've been much happier not to mention I can do a lot more installs at one time since bandwidth isn't as big of an issue this way, its just a matter of duplicating the iso onto CD's so I can get all the systems upgrading at once.

I have learned when it asks to keep or replace xorg or my blacklist file say KEEP. If not it's going to be a long day......
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My upgrade work flawless
ubuntu64 29th Apr 2008
I had no issues on the 3 machines I updated. The one obvious trick I suggest is to wait a couple of days after release to upgrade because the Ubuntu site is overloaded. I also keep the /home folder on a separate partition.
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Great Logic Ed
ColdFusion_z 30th Apr 2008
First....you are panning Hardy due to extreme server load for a highly anticipated release....oh come on...that's just not fair. Yes...better planning for the load would have been nice, but this is in no way indicative of the quality of the OS.

Second...as far as your comment on the upgrade option....I assume you would ask the same question regarding any OS as they all have upgrade options??...we ALL know it's not as safe as a clean install...ask MS why they have one then wink

What happened to fairness in "journalism"....you are just nit picking for the sake of finding ANY flaw.

Try again wink
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Upgrading Ubuntu
wildnr1 Updated - 28th Oct 2008
Upgrades are ALWAYS trouble, also in ubuntu, unless you are the "standard" user that is just mailing, surfing and playing cards.
I suggest for all to take backups, for sooner or later you will have to reinstall. Not even ubuntu is capable of deleting or adjust everything that should in an upgrade.
Upgrades exist for people that are not capable to format their drives (they would delete the windows disk as well) and for lazy users that try to go the easy way and do not bather the trouble afterwards as long as the internet is working.
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Clean install....
baylors 28th Apr 2008
A clean install is ALWAYS better. Not only for Linux but as for Windoze as well. I have upgraded several Win98 to Win XP and guess what happens if the install bombs mid way through??? That's right ALL of the documents that the person had been accumalating over the last 5 years is GONE. Why? Don't know exactly something to do with XP's indivdual users... Long story short... Always backup and reload fresh!
there is NO reason to not use them. Can't beat it with a stick!!
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But with Linux you don't bulk your system up with loads of junkware etc, plus the upgrades are smart and remove old packages.

For Windows, a clean install is a good idea, about every 6 months, because Windows machines just get slower and slower and slower ...
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The reason why my machines gets slower is a combination
of things - registry errors which cause windows to look for
processes that no longer exist - and drivers being loaded
that are no longer needed. Just did a reinstall of Xp on one
of my machines after Safari kept crashing when using flash
on certain sites on that machine, while the other Xp
machine ran Safari flawlessly.

I discovered Clean installs were the only reliable way to go
ever since the days of win98. I tried to run an update of ME
over 98 against my own better judgement, and lets just say
that i learned never to do update installations before
bedtime....if at all! There's nothing more miserable than
knowing you could been sleeping already if only you didn't
try to take the shortcut!
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Every 6 Months--WOW !!
zack402000@... 29th Apr 2008
You're lucky...I thought 3-4 months was the norm....
that have been deprecated, and install the replacements. But, even if you do a new install, you need to get used to the new. If they can not move the configuration to the new version, they just politely tell you that your custom configurations will be lost. That was the case with ntp for instance when I updated to 8.04.

All in all, the version upgrade is a whole lot smother than trying to back everything up and then restore on the new version.
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Smooth
idodialog 28th Apr 2008
Not entirely a noob but have never upgraded before - followed the (incredibly simple) instructions with some reservations and everything went entirely hitch free. Hour or so later completely solid upgrade even tho I had done some very amateur tweaking to nvidia etc.
Happy chappie!
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I have had no issues with version upgrades.
alfowler@... 29th Apr 2008
Except with 8.04 which did not recognise my Broadcom wireless card. However I visited Ubuntu's forum and found similar upgrade problems there.
Fortunately, I know how to fix this sort of issue and was up and running in a short while.
I think user knowledge is something we take for granted until such a problem manifests itself.
I am no Linux guru, just someone who is still learning.
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Upgrades have worked exceptionally well
masinick@... 29th Apr 2008
While on one hand, I can certainly appreciate the advice to back up all data in case of problems and to install a fresh, new system, those are good general tidbits of advice, I have found absolutely no issues at all with any upgrade of Ubuntu. I know that I have upgraded from the 2006 series (for example, 6.10 to 7.04, and I have also upgraded from 7.04 to 7.10. But what is really pleasing to me is that I installed a rather early ALPHA test version of Ubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04 LTS (Long Term Support), and even though it was the FIRST official Alpha release, it actually installed. There may have been some things missing during testing, but it was usable, so I had a very good feeling about the release. I used that ALPHA build throughout testing and simply upgraded a few times over the network. There were changes, but a nominal number of them, indicative that the preparation work for the release had been very thorough and complete.

I have not had any major issues with the ALPHA, BETA, or Release Candidate tests or the final release.

In addition to these builds, I have also used a KDE 4 remix of Kubuntu 8.04 on Live CD, and last night I installed a desktop version of Xubuntu 8.04 on older hardware. The test builds, the KDE Live CD, and the XFCE Xubuntu release each worked as expected with a simple, solid installation, not much feedback, but clean, solid results. In the case of the KDE remix CD, I was running that on a Dell Latitude D600 laptop and it immediately picked up on my wireless connection with a Intel Pro Wireless 2200 driver, and connected to my Belkin G wireless router, and allowed me to establish a WPA-PSK connection. Excellent!

While I would recommend a beginner start with a clean slate, if they are willing to read, use caution, and experiment, I believe an upgrade is also a viable alternative. A beginner who is afraid to install software should not install software, they should pay to have someone do it for them, and hold them accountable for getting it right. But a beginner who is careful, backs up their information, is willing to experience a few mistakes and failures in order to learn, this is a great platform on which to learn, and not that difficult an environment to learn with.
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Agreed
DonRupertBitByte 28th Apr 2008
While I try not to install an OS very often, doing a clean install is still the best way. Yes, there is more hassle involved in saving data files from applications (assuming you do that), but it's usually worth it.
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Home
kwacka 28th Apr 2008
having a separate partition for home means that there is very little to be gained from updating rather than upgrading.

I'd suggest the same for Windows users - make a separate partition for 'My Documents' so when Windows 7 comes along next year you can also do a clean install whilst keeping all your local files, program settings, address books, mail, etc. Just stick in the disk that you've downloaded from your Microsoft mirror and you're off and running.
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clean install
rMatey 28th Apr 2008
Just wanted to say that if you have anything that is not a typical install, like any programs that were added and not directly supported, the install can stall. I found this out the hard way. Never did find out whether or not Frostwire or Swiftweasel was the cause, but it made the OS a incomplete install.
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The Onl Way To Go.
zack402000@... 29th Apr 2008
Yep, that worked real well. I downloaded 600+ mb to a flash drive and burned the ISO to a CD. It installed and works great.
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Update problems
abcdef164134 28th Apr 2008
I'm wondering if you didn't just have issues with your network in general. I was able to update last week using exactly the same methods you used with absolutely no problems. I was prompted to keep or replace a couple altered config files, but that was all the interaction required. The entire update was downloaded and installed in a matter of about 2 hours over a basic home cable connection (that includes time walking away and coming back to find a file prompt).
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Contributr
Network seemed to be ok otherwise
Ed Burnette 28th Apr 2008
While the update was going on I didn't have any trouble browsing the web on the same computer. I have a pretty fast connection, but it does go through a firewall.
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RE: Hardy Heron is hardly a snap
Loverock Davidson 28th Apr 2008
Are you surprised that a linux distro was hard to install? I'm not. Its always been that way despite what the fanboys say. Too much time and effort to install and use, plus the downloading of the source, recompiling, looking for the executable. Linux isn't worth the trouble. Ed is just one of many that points out the many many flaws filled with linux. Expect more articles to come with similiar issues.
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Stop feeding the troll people!
odubtaig 28th Apr 2008
Just thought I'd get that in there quickly.

'recompiling' my arse. Honestly, if he had a criticism relevant to this century I might be fished in but this muppet's just not worth the time.

But it does increase the Signal to Noise ratio incredibly.
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Finding the sources
fr0thy2 28th Apr 2008
Don't be too hard on him. If he finds Synaptic or "apt-get" or "emerge" or similar too hard to use it must be a really tough world out there for him wink

But of course you're right, he has absolutely no clue what he's talking about, and probably ends up wondering why he can't gcc RPM's.
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Hate and FUD.
djchandler 28th Apr 2008
It's difficult to understand the animosity spewing from Hatemud. His responses on this subject are obviously emotional. Get a grip! Why does he feel so threatened and therefore compelled to rant about something he doesn't know a thing about?

Even Microsoft's servers get hammered on Patch Tuesday every month. What's with you guys? So much negativity! Ed, quit giving trolls any ammo, especially since part of this situation was caused by you, not something you apparently ignored until this Ubuntu upgrade was newsworthy.

If you kept your system updated, you would not have had near the wait. How many times have you admonished your friends and relatives not to miss Microsoft's updates? When is the last time you skipped Patch Tuesday? Pay attention to the asterisk in the orange square on your taskbar. Part of this rant is due to user inattention. And things don't work exactly the same way as with closed source software. You're updating a lot of stuff, not {i]just the OS. Additionally, this doesn't cost any money unless you choose to support Open Source. Contributions are always welcome at the Free Software Foundation.

Update Manager started and finished my 8.04 upgrade (from 7.10) on Saturday, even with a motherboard I know is flawed. I didn't need my hand held by an IT department or Canonical's tech support to get through it. It worked, and 8.04 is running on 5 year old hardware. But it is time to do something about that motherboard with a bad DIMM slot plus other problems.
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Hate and FUD.
djchandler 28th Apr 2008
It's difficult to understand the animosity spewing from Hatemud. His responses on this subject are obviously emotional. Get a grip! Why does he feel so threatened and therefore compelled to rant about something he doesn't know a thing about?

Even Microsoft's servers get hammered on Patch Tuesday every month. What's with you guys? So much negativity! Ed, quit giving trolls any ammo, especially since part of this situation was caused by you, not something you apparently ignored until this Ubuntu upgrade was newsworthy.

If you kept your system updated, you would not have had near the wait. How many times have you admonished your friends and relatives not to miss Microsoft's updates? When is the last time you skipped Patch Tuesday? Pay attention to the asterisk in the orange square on your taskbar. Part of this rant is due to user inattention. And things don't work exactly the same way as with closed source software. You're updating a lot of stuff, not just the OS. Additionally, this doesn't cost any money unless you choose to support Open Source. Contributions are always welcome at the Free Software Foundation.

Update Manager started and finished my 8.04 upgrade (from 7.10) on Saturday, even with a motherboard I know is flawed. I didn't need my hand held by an IT department or Canonical's tech support to get through it. It worked, and 8.04 is running on 5 year old hardware. But it is time to do something about that motherboard with a bad DIMM slot plus other problems.
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Contributr
Keeping installs up to date
Ed Burnette 28th Apr 2008
Maybe I've been "spoiled" by Windows (Did I just say that? Shudder.) but I haven't had to manually check for updates there for years. I don't get (much) of a choice about Patch Tuesday, it just happens. New version of Firefox? Installs itself and asks me if I want to restart now or later. The less the user has to worry about updates, the more likely they'll be applied.
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That's just LAZY!
eMJayy 28th Apr 2008
I typically turn off my updates or reassign times to those that
can be tightly scheduled. Why? because i don't like updaters
popping up when i'm gaming or working on new music. Yet
i'm always up to date. I do all my manual updating at one
time on sunday night...just takes a little planning..try it...
In Windows the system tries to prevent user from disturbing its actions. In linux the system mainly asks user permission to do anything. That's why you only have update notification by default, not automatically installed everything. If you prefer, you can set it to automatic installation o downloading in background, just as in Windows (under Ubuntu- in Synaptic - Settings | Repositories | Updates)
If you had lot of updates pending you must have ignored the notifications o disabled them - so you shouldn't complain - that's what you wanted.
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Recompiling?
wallacebrown@... 28th Apr 2008
I doubt this clown even knows what compiling means. I installed Hardy Heron over the weekend to dual-boot with Vista. I find myself spending much more time enjoying Ubuntu. If you're going to criticize, at least know what you're talking about.
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Installing Ubuntu
jcwhite100@... 28th Apr 2008
This may be true for some distros I've used several: Mandriva, OpenSuse, Ubuntu, Dream Linux and never once compiled anything. Typically you download an ISO, burn to disc, reboot and follow the prompt. My eight year old uses both Linux and Windows using Grub as a boot manager. I don't think the issue is complexity but familiarity.
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recompile?????????
rMatey 28th Apr 2008
Sure don't know what your talking about with 'buntu.
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oh my! another automated post?
Four-Eyes 28th Apr 2008
NT
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Just ignore him, maybe he'll go away
Roger Bamforth 29th Apr 2008
Seriously, if each time he posted this nonsense he got no replies he'd soon get fed up with it.

Unless, of course, he's a bot, autoresponding to any post the mentions linux.

Doh, I've just realised this has already been said...

"Please do not feed the troll".
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Recompile?
Amaroq 30th Apr 2008
Ubuntu's packages are precompiled binaries. There is no downloading or recompiling source code, and executables that need to be used widespread are placed in a bin folder automatically.

I could see the "too much effort" argument being used with Gentoo, but Gentoo is meant to put effort into to get a system suited to your tastes.
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RE: Hardy Heron is hardly a snap
Vidfreek 28th Apr 2008
I fully agree, even mundane tasks like installing video card drivers is a problem, especially with ATI graphics cards, playing a video after trying to do that doesnt work right either and since most things arent just "double click, install" Average Joe is definitely NOT ready for this yet and its got a LONG way to go before they are
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To be fair though.
odubtaig 28th Apr 2008
ATI drivers suck on Windows too.
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since when?
ivanotter 28th Apr 2008
The CATALYST program/Hydra/whatever they call it does, but the drivers seemt o work just fine for me for 98% of the cards I have (some old ATI RAGEPRO didn't work well for me).

So I would say I disagree
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Game players disagree.
odubtaig 28th Apr 2008
Particularly players of Black & White 2 and City of Heroes.
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RE: RE: Hardy Heron is hardly a snap
abcdef164134 28th Apr 2008
Have you used Ubuntu? I've been using nVidia proprietary drivers with just a couple clicks (prompted by the system) since Edgy Eft without any problems. I have a hard time believing you've given Ubuntu (or linux in this decade) a serious chance. The Add/Remove menu provided in Ubuntu works pretty well, despite not being "double click, install".
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...but from my experience, installing the proprietary driver from an Ubuntu repository works like that: download, restart, done.
If you have a slightly older video card (r100 to r400), you already have the latest driver installed, or latest version comes from the most recent /backports update.
Under Windows, it's: download driver, install driver, get .Net package installed, reinstall driver, get .Net patches, reinstall driver, reboot, install driver again (and pray it'll catch), get BSOD on game.
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It's dissappointing really.
odubtaig 28th Apr 2008
Once everything's set up and installed Ubuntu's the most user friendly distro installed... once everything's set up and installed.

It may be gaining in popularity but Canonical's QA chief needs a good kicking. 7.10 was unimpressive in it's schoolboy errors and it looks like 8.04's shaping up to be a stinker.

Dire, dire, dire.

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