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Digital downloads linked to HD disc format war?

By | February 29, 2008, 8:53am PST

As everyone already knows, the HD disc format war is over, resolved in true domino fashion by Warner Brothers’ decision to back Blu-ray exclusively. Most of the studios in the HD DVD camp have now agreed to back Blu-ray, particularly now that Toshiba has announced it will cease pushing the HD DVD format (though Dreamworks is an odd holdout).

HD discs have had microscopic sales compared to standard definition DVD, however, which may partly explain why Dreamworks feels no driving need to switch its allegiance in the near future. I also don’t think the studios are expecting a huge surge in Blu-ray sales, mostly because Blu-ray players always were, and continue to be, MUCH more expensive than HD DVD players. That’s hardly the kind of thing that can be expected to seed the market in expectation of HD disc sales revenues sprouting from the ground.

But, there are other reasons that the studios had a strong interest in making HD disc formats viable…besides the obvious need to keep the movie disc money train moving. They may need them as a way to buy off important distributors who were actively trying to prevent the growth and spread of digital movie downloads.

The following is an extract from a briefing in the February 23rd edition of the Economist:

For the moment, most people are still happy with DVDs, so the studios have had little incentive to switch to an unproven new format. The DVD business is huge, bringing in $23.4 billion in America last year, against $9.6 billion from the box office. The studios are terrified of damaging that source of revenue. In 2006, when Disney made a deal with Apple to sell movies via iTunes, Wal-Mart, America’s biggest retailer, reportedly threatened to retaliate: the internet, after all, bypasses it. Wal-Mart accounts for about 40% of DVD sales in the United States and if it sharply cut shelf-space for DVDs, the lost sales would far outweigh new digital sales in the near term. At the end of last year Wal-Mart shut its ten-month-old movie-download site. Now that it no longer has a foot in the internet camp, studios expect it to take a harder line against any further efforts they may make to favour online distribution.

In the next paragraph, an unnamed studio executive notes that Wal-Mart would be crazy to pull shelf space, as they rely on it to bring “higher-income people into their stores.” The studios, in other words, have more power to push back than they might think. Even so, the easiest path to a digital download future is likely one that gives the Wal-Marts of the world a physical product that they can continue to use to attract buyers, even as consumers embrace the parallel market for digital download services.

Odd as it may seem, a resolution to the HD disc format war, provided it actually results in Blu-ray becoming a serious generator of revenue, could help unlock digital downloads by removing the resistance of key distributors who have a stake in the movie disc revenue pie. That seems a tall order now that they have settled on a more expensive format with a more fluid standardization story, but you can at least see why a major Hollywood studio had an interest in pushing things along to a speedy resolution at a time when revenues barely registered and HD DVD players had just reached the $100 price point.

If HD DVD had started to use its price advantage to push sales up (Blu-ray did have the sales advantage), it could have perpetuated the format war for the foreseeable future. Though Blu-ray isn’t a perfect solution, that took a back seat to settling on a single format as soon as possible. The Internet beckons, and the studios can’t afford Wal-Mart building walls against it.

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John Carroll has delivered his opinion on ZDNet since the last millennium. Since May 2008, he is no longer a Microsoft employee. He is currently working at a unified messaging-related startup.

Disclosure

John Carroll

http://blogs.zdnet.com/carroll/?p=1412

Biography

John Carroll

John Carroll has programmed in a wide variety of computing domains, including servers, client PCs, mobile phones and even mainframes. His current specialties are C#, .NET, Java, WIN32/COM and C++, and he has applied those skills in everything from distributed web-based systems to embedded devices. In his spare time, he enjoys the world of digital video, and served as director of photography and editor on a feature-length film produced in Limerick, Ireland, as well as a low-budget production filmed in Los Angeles that used Panavision digital cameras (the same ones used by George Lucas in the later Star Wars episodes).

John worked in Microsoft's Mediaroom division from May, 2005 to May, 2008. He is co-founder of ForgetMeNot Software, a creator of unified messaging software targeted at telecommunications providers, where he currently works as Director of Technology.

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Heck if I know
John Carroll 3rd Mar 2008
...was this blog post included with links related to digital cameras?
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Regardless
norb_houston@... 29th Feb 2008
Regardless of what Walmart wants or doesnt want to happen, digital downloads is available and the ability to watch movies and tv shows via the internet will change the way we all view our favorite movies and shows.

I already watch all my movies and tv through my pc, I dont own a HD player, nor do i see any advantage to getting blu ray any time soon. I dont see any justification to spending 4-500 dollars on something that will come down in price and will probably be replaced by internet media sooner than everyone thinks.
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Physical media will always exist
AbbydonKrafts 29th Feb 2008
Broadband has yet to canvas 100% of the country, and the service that does exist has not reached the speed and stability required to make it a mandatory "utility". I can only get 3Mbps in my area, and it's somewhat unreliable, especially in inclement weather.

Also, shifting to all-broadband for content would require investment in hardware and setup. Many people do not want to do that -- myself included. It would take a considerable amount of money for me to wire my house up so that I can watch something from the bedroom. Even just the living room would be a hassle to set up. I would even need to build yet another computer to serve up the content. I only see techno-/mediaphiles doing this in the current and near future.

My standard DVD library continues to grow. I just ordered 7 more DVDs. Why would I pay $10+ for a digital download when I can get the physical media, including a case and artwork, for the same amount or a little more? I've seen plenty of downloads being made available for $10 when the same can be bought at Wal-Mart for $5!

That brings up another issue: Many of us like the convenience, security, and portability of physical media. I purchase music via digital download, but I promptly transfer it to CD as I've found out how it's virtually impossible to replicate the license (they claim 3 devices, but it never works). However, I can take any audio CD and rip or play anywhere and as many times as I want.

BUT -- in the case of music, it's cheaper to do digital. Until movies can beat Wal-Mart's prices, I'll continue to buy physical discs over digital.
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By that reasoning
John Carroll 29th Feb 2008
My standard DVD library continues to grow. I just ordered 7 more DVDs. Why would I pay $10+ for a digital download when I can get the physical media, including a case and artwork, for the same amount or a little more? I've seen plenty of downloads being made available for $10 when the same can be bought at Wal-Mart for $5!

By that reasoning, music on CDs should be holding up fine against digital downloads. It isn't, which seems to imply the convenience aspect trumps the "physical ownership" aspect.

You make a good point regarding download speeds, but I think that is an issue that will be resolved in the near future (and in cities, mostly is). Granted, the bitrate on downloaded media doesn't match that found in HD discs, but then again, most aren't opting for the higher-bitrate HD discs yet, as they constitute a miniscule part of the market for physical discs.
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You missed the last part
AbbydonKrafts 29th Feb 2008
By that reasoning, music on CDs should be holding up fine against digital downloads. It isn't, which seems to imply the convenience aspect trumps the "physical ownership" aspect.

That wasn't my point. The point was that movies are, for the most part, cheaper to purchase via physical media. However, the same reasoning doesn't apply to CDs. I stated as such in my last paragraph:

BUT -- in the case of music, it's cheaper to do digital.

The reason is because most music is crap. It's not worth paying $15 for a CD when most of the time only one or two tracks are any good. I still buy CDs if I like the whole disc, though. Movies, on the other hand, are one continuous unit -- a single track, basically. So, they are either good or they aren't. Therefore, if one wants to buy a movie, a physical disc is a worthwhile investment.

I don't think the issue will be resolved in the near future. Why? Because it's not worth it to the providers. We still don't have cable on our road even though it's available half a mile away. The excuse? "It's not worth it to install the cabling on the road". Considering a large part of the country can be considered rural, I doubt it'll be wired for 6Mbps anytime soon. My 3Mbps DSL is lucky to stream a high-resolution movie trailer without buffering.

I agree on the HD discs, though. It doesn't provide enough benefit for the cost. There's no comparison between download or disc in that case. It's obviously cheaper for download. However, as long as regular DVDs are available, they will be the cheapest long-term option.
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Imagine if it came to the time
ju1ce 3rd Mar 2008
Where they started charging per byte downloaded. Bye bye Movie medium. I think consumers would be putting themselves into a whole in this case because the day will come where ISP's will finally win and start charging more than just monthly fees.
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WalMart is already cowering
007baf 29th Feb 2008
WalMart, please, I rarely darken their doorstep. If you want a good selection of
DVDs, you really have to go to Best Buy (it pains me to say that). I'm no fan of either
big box store btw.

I have 2 HD-DVD players. I'll take advantage of the upcoming "fire-sales" on the
remaining stock and fortunately 1 of them upconverts standard DVD.

My intention is to go for an Apple TV - I know the quality isn't as good, but I can do
a digital download and watch it on my iPhone, my desktop Vista PC, my Apple TV,
and my MacBook Air. No need to burn it.

I sincerely hope Blu-Ray evaporates. Shame on them for not establishing a
standard to begin with. WalMart is looking at iTunes bypass them as the largest
purveyor of music. They'll have to go back to peddling their imported junk.
0 Votes
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Downloads?
dchagwood 29th Feb 2008
Download will not likely be as widely accepted before Blu-ray will. It will take years for people to build a HD library by downloads. The it takes too long to download them even with a great broadband connection. Not everyone has broadband internet. You can't build much of a HD library on a computer. It will suck your storage up in no time even if you have a terrabyte hard drive. On top of that, it's not reliable to build a hard drive library unless you're really willing to risk losing it due to a hard drive crash. Optical disks are very reliable and will last as long as you take care of them. By having the disk, you actually can enjoy the sense of ownership of something and you get the bonus content. Many people care about the bonus features otherwise it wouldn't sell as well as it has over the years.

By Sony making the PS3s more affordable, it has put Blu-ray in to many more people's hands. They get the Profile 2 features off the bat when they become available as well. The efforts Sony has been making to get market started will pay off. The prices are coming down and by the time Christmas comes around, the Blu-ray will have found it's way in to most households in the country rather if it's gamers or not. I can't imaging as many stand alone units being sold at this point since getting a Profile 2 player may be a bit too steep when they could get a PS3 for cheaper. That could change, though. Plus there may not be that many people who care about the Pro.2 features.

I believe this whole Digital download thing being a competitor with Blu-ray is the media's way to stir up more controversy. It attracts attention and makes money on people who can't think for themselves or just don't know any better.
0 Votes
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I live minutes outside Washington, D.C., and there is ONE option for broadband cable at speeds that make digital downloads reasonable, Comcast. That isn't a solution, that's a problem. Verizon FiOS isn't available in most of the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area yet. This article about digital downloads misses one major point, Comcast's recent admission of throttling download speeds for certain applications (recently it was just proven they now do it to Lotus Notes as well as P2P and BitTorrent) and the other major companies, including Verizon's, support of the idea in filings with the FCC. Comcast is a cable monopoly and they're already throttling downloads and interfering with some completely legal transactions using the 'net. While it has not yet been shown they interfere with services such as Apple TV or XBox Live, when a company openly admits they interfere with some of their users legal downloads instead of spending money to upgrade their network, should anybody think they won't do it when the download conflicts with their cable TV offerings?? If Comcast is successful with the FCC, I will not be surprised if in six months to a year it's shown they're trying to interfere with people purchasing things off Apple TV or XBox Live.

In addition to download speeds, the US is still #23 in the world in broadband penetration, and given the telecos absolute resistance in upgrading their network infrastructures, it's likely to stay that way for a long while. The percentage of US homes that need to have affordable broadband at decent speeds just is not high enough to make digital downloads a reality. Microsoft and Apple obviously want that to happen, and perhaps some of the movie studios do too, but they don't own ISPs.

As for Blu Ray, the idea it's going to be in most homes by this Christmas is a joke. The PS3 isn't even the cheapest Blu Ray player on the market anymore, but those players that are cheaper are still at around $350-375. That is not the "sweet spot" that saw DVD take off in the US, Blu Ray players need to drop to at least $200 for that to occur. Furthermore, an individual Blu Ray disc is still generally more expensive than a traditional DVD. Until the actual discs themselves drop in price AND HDTV penetration gets above 50% (still a year or two away in the US), Blu Ray is going to have a tough time getting into homes.

I also think the point about, psychologically, people LIKING to own physical media is an important one. There have been e-book readers on the market now for what, at least 10 years? None of them have ever actually competed with physical book sales and usually failed completely. We'll see if Amazon.com's Kindle can reverse that trend, but I'm skeptical. Logically, an e-book reader actually makes sense because it reduces storage space, etc., but they have just not gained much traction because people LIKE to own physical media.
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DDL vs. BD
superdynamite@... 1st Mar 2008
The subject of Downloadable Content vs. Blu-ray Disc has recently become a Hot topic of discussion. Will Digital Downloadable Movies replace Disc media? Let's try to find the Answer.

This is a new subject that has been popping-up on various Electronics News report columns.


OK, lets' look at the "Movie Download vs. Movie Disc" subject a little closer. We will dissect it in a way that will allow us to try and determine the future of the digital HD Movie Download.

These are some of the Freedoms that I am able to enjoy because I own a Blu-ray player (Playstation 3) and Blu-ray Disc collection.

I watched my Blackhawk Down Blu-ray about 8X during this past year. I watched my Pan's Labyrinth Blu-ray 4X since it's release. I watched the Simpson's Movie on Christmas Night and then again last night, almost 4 weeks later, with my little cousin. I also let my brother borrow my 300 and 28 Weeks Later Blu-ray discs. My friend Mike let me borrow his Ghost Rider Blu-ray and I lent him my Casino Royale Blu-ray. I brought my TMNT Blu-ray to my friend Jay's house to see how it looked on his new Samsung DLP flat screen and PS3. It looked and sounded amazing. I bought Pathfinder on Blu-ray for $29.99, watched it, then sold it on eBay for $26.00 + $2.00 shipping.

Ok, that's what I've done with a few of my Blu-ray movies.



Now let's look at the advantages and disadvantages of the Digital HD Movie Download:
1. Does the HD Movie Download allow me the same freedoms in portability that the Blu-Ray Disc does? No. You can only view a Downloaded movie on the device that it was downloaded to.

2. Can I borrow and Lend downloaded movies with friends and family? No. You would have to lend or borrow the whole device or console that holds the download.

3. Can I watch a Downloaded Movie numerous times over the course of a Year or the course of a month for that matter? No. Digital Download Movies are only good for a predetermined term or limited length of time. Usually 24 hours.
For example, Microsoft offers Digital Movie Downloads on their XBoxLIVE service, which costs $50.00 per year. The Downloadable movies vary in price and are not included in the XBoxLIVE subscription fee. Movie Downloads from XBoxLIVE can be viewed an unlimited amount of times for the first 24 hours. Plays after that period will cost the same as the initial download. The downloaded Movie files are in Windows Media VideoHD (aka;VC-1,WMVHD) format at 720p resolution, 6.8Mbps video with 5.1 surround sound. The average Movie download is 4 - 5gb.

4. Are Digital downloadable Movies available in Full HD, 1080p with lossless Audio? No. Not yet. There is no date for the availability of full resolution Downloads.

The only advantage or benefit, that I can see, in Downloading Movies would be, it saves you a trip to the store. If you are home sick, the weather is bad, it's after 10pm and all the Electronics stores are closed or you're just feeling a little bit lazy, downloading a movie is fine.
To me, downloading a Movie is no different than purchasing a movie from your Pay-Per-View service. In some cases Pay-Per-View might even have more of an advantage because you don't have to wait the download time and if you have TiVo you can watch it until you delete it.



The DVD vs. VHS Comparison in relation to The Blu-ray vs. DVD Comparison:
Standard DVD replaced VHS, Blu-ray replaced DVD and Digital Downloads will replace Blu-ray, right? Wrong. Here is why:

While compiling information about a subject or subjects, in order to complete a proper hypothecation, you will need to make sure that the variables that you are using are in accordance with one another and can be related to one another.
So the question is, "Can we compare DVD's replacement of VHS with Blu-ray's replacement of Standard (STD) DVD?" The answer is No. DVD ultimately rendered the VHS Tape useless. Blu-ray is not replacing DVD or rendering the DVD format useless. Blu-ray is simply an expansion of DVD.

If you own a Full HD Home Theater with Blu-ray player, the Standard DVD format can and will be integrated into your Movie, Concert or VideoGame collection in some way. The standard DVD can not only be viewed using a Blu-ray player, but the STD DVD can be viewed at a higher resolution using a process that most Blu-ray players feature. This process is called upscaling.

VHS and DVD are in no way interchangeable, which was the reason for the subsequent discontinuation and elimination of VHS.
Not only are the STD DVD & VHS forms of media non-interchangeable with one another, but the gap in technology between DVD and VHS is far greater then the gap between Blu-ray and DVD. The reason there is such a large gap between DVD and VHS is that DVD is a completely different technology than VHS, where as Blu-ray evolved from DVD and is of the same technology.
Here's another way to look at the DVD vs. VHS Comparison in relation to The Blu-ray vs. DVD Comparison:
1.What came first, the chicken (Blu-ray) or the egg (DVD)?
2.What came first, the chicken (Blu-ray) or the Elephant (VHS)? You can't ask that question because it's not relative to what we need the answer for.

This is why "The DVD vs. VHS Comparison in relation to The Blu-ray vs. DVD Comparison" cannot be used to determine an answer to our question, which is, Will Digital Downloadable Movies replace Disc media?



The Downloadable Movie vs. Downloadable Music comparison:
I think this is where analysts and columnists make their biggest mistake when trying to evaluate the future of digital media.
You can not compare downloading movies with downloading music. A full catalog of Music does not require a large amount of Hard Drive space. One single HD Movie with 1080p resolution, 7.1 lossless Audio and Bonus Features could, in some cases, require 20gb to over 50gb of space depending on the movie. Just think of how much space you would need to retain a downloaded version of the Godfather Box set in Full HD.
Music Downloads are portable via an MP3 device such as the IPod. Downloadable Movie content is not portable. Music Downloads are permanent and do not incur future costs on the owner. Movie downloads have a limited viewing time.

As a consumer, I do not want to spend money on a movie that I am only able to view for a limited time. In that case, I might as well go to the movie theater and get my money's worth. I'd much rather order something from Pay-Per-View which I can TiVo. I want to watch my movies when & where I feel like watching them. I want to lend movies to my friends and family. I also want to borrow movies from my friends and family. To me, that is a small part of what makes owning a movie collection fun.

In my opinion, Movie Downloads is an option that is loaded with restrictions and costs to the consumer. Digital Movie Downloads, Pay-Per-View and Divx are more comparable to each other than Movie Downloads and Disc Media are to each other. For now, the Movie Download is a very long way from replacing Blu-disc/DVD media.

Movie Downloads have their place in the industry, but they will never take over as the industry standard. For now it's just another option to Pay-Per-View.
0 Votes
+ -
DDL vs. BD
superdynamite@... 1st Mar 2008
This is a new subject that has been popping-up on various Electronics News report columns.


OK, lets' look at the "Movie Download vs. Movie Disc" subject a little closer. We will dissect it in a way that will allow us to try and determine the future of the digital HD Movie Download.

These are some of the Freedoms that I am able to enjoy because I own a Blu-ray player (Playstation 3) and Blu-ray Disc collection.

I watched my Blackhawk Down Blu-ray about 8X during this past year. I watched my Pan's Labyrinth Blu-ray 4X since it's release. I watched the Simpson's Movie on Christmas Night and then again last night, almost 4 weeks later, with my little cousin. I also let my brother borrow my 300 and 28 Weeks Later Blu-ray discs. My friend Mike let me borrow his Ghost Rider Blu-ray and I lent him my Casino Royale Blu-ray. I brought my TMNT Blu-ray to my friend Jay's house to see how it looked on his new Samsung DLP flat screen and PS3. It looked and sounded amazing. I bought Pathfinder on Blu-ray for $29.99, watched it, then sold it on eBay for $26.00 + $2.00 shipping.

Ok, that's what I've done with a few of my Blu-ray movies.



Now let's look at the advantages and disadvantages of the Digital HD Movie Download:
1. Does the HD Movie Download allow me the same freedoms in portability that the Blu-Ray Disc does? No. You can only view a Downloaded movie on the device that it was downloaded to.

2. Can I borrow and Lend downloaded movies with friends and family? No. You would have to lend or borrow the whole device or console that holds the download.

3. Can I watch a Downloaded Movie numerous times over the course of a Year or the course of a month for that matter? No. Digital Download Movies are only good for a predetermined term or limited length of time. Usually 24 hours.
For example, Microsoft offers Digital Movie Downloads on their XBoxLIVE service, which costs $50.00 per year. The Downloadable movies vary in price and are not included in the XBoxLIVE subscription fee. Movie Downloads from XBoxLIVE can be viewed an unlimited amount of times for the first 24 hours. Plays after that period will cost the same as the initial download. The downloaded Movie files are in Windows Media VideoHD (aka;VC-1,WMVHD) format at 720p resolution, 6.8Mbps video with 5.1 surround sound. The average Movie download is 4 - 5gb.

4. Are Digital downloadable Movies available in Full HD, 1080p with lossless Audio? No. Not yet. There is no date for the availability of full resolution Downloads.

The only advantage or benefit, that I can see, in Downloading Movies would be, it saves you a trip to the store. If you are home sick, the weather is bad, it's after 10pm and all the Electronics stores are closed or you're just feeling a little bit lazy, downloading a movie is fine.
To me, downloading a Movie is no different than purchasing a movie from your Pay-Per-View service. In some cases Pay-Per-View might even have more of an advantage because you don't have to wait the download time and if you have TiVo you can watch it until you delete it.



The DVD vs. VHS Comparison in relation to The Blu-ray vs. DVD Comparison:
Standard DVD replaced VHS, Blu-ray replaced DVD and Digital Downloads will replace Blu-ray, right? Wrong. Here is why:

While compiling information about a subject or subjects, in order to complete a proper hypothecation, you will need to make sure that the variables that you are using are in accordance with one another and can be related to one another.
So the question is, "Can we compare DVD's replacement of VHS with Blu-ray's replacement of Standard (STD) DVD?" The answer is No. DVD ultimately rendered the VHS Tape useless. Blu-ray is not replacing DVD or rendering the DVD format useless. Blu-ray is simply an expansion of DVD.

If you own a Full HD Home Theater with Blu-ray player, the Standard DVD format can and will be integrated into your Movie, Concert or VideoGame collection in some way. The standard DVD can not only be viewed using a Blu-ray player, but the STD DVD can be viewed at a higher resolution using a process that most Blu-ray players feature. This process is called upscaling.

VHS and DVD are in no way interchangeable, which was the reason for the subsequent discontinuation and elimination of VHS.
Not only are the STD DVD & VHS forms of media non-interchangeable with one another, but the gap in technology between DVD and VHS is far greater then the gap between Blu-ray and DVD. The reason there is such a large gap between DVD and VHS is that DVD is a completely different technology than VHS, where as Blu-ray evolved from DVD and is of the same technology.
Here's another way to look at the DVD vs. VHS Comparison in relation to The Blu-ray vs. DVD Comparison:
1.What came first, the chicken (Blu-ray) or the egg (DVD)?
2.What came first, the chicken (Blu-ray) or the Elephant (VHS)? You can't ask that question because it's not relative to what we need the answer for.

This is why "The DVD vs. VHS Comparison in relation to The Blu-ray vs. DVD Comparison" cannot be used to determine an answer to our question, which is, Will Digital Downloadable Movies replace Disc media?



The Downloadable Movie vs. Downloadable Music comparison:
I think this is where analysts and columnists make their biggest mistake when trying to evaluate the future of digital media.
You can not compare downloading movies with downloading music. A full catalog of Music does not require a large amount of Hard Drive space. One single HD Movie with 1080p resolution, 7.1 lossless Audio and Bonus Features could, in some cases, require 20gb to over 50gb of space depending on the movie. Just think of how much space you would need to retain a downloaded version of the Godfather Box set in Full HD.
Music Downloads are portable via an MP3 device such as the IPod. Downloadable Movie content is not portable. Music Downloads are permanent and do not incur future costs on the owner. Movie downloads have a limited viewing time.

As a consumer, I do not want to spend money on a movie that I am only able to view for a limited time. In that case, I might as well go to the movie theater and get my money's worth. I'd much rather order something from Pay-Per-View which I can TiVo. I want to watch my movies when & where I feel like watching them. I want to lend movies to my friends and family. I also want to borrow movies from my friends and family. To me, that is a small part of what makes owning a movie collection fun.

In my opinion, Movie Downloads is an option that is loaded with restrictions and costs to the consumer. Digital Movie Downloads, Pay-Per-View and Divx are more comparable to each other than Movie Downloads and Disc Media are to each other. For now, the Movie Download is a very long way from replacing Blu-disc/DVD media.

Movie Downloads have their place in the industry, but they will never take over as the industry standard. For now it's just another option to Pay-Per-View.
0 Votes
+ -
What has Blu-Ray to do with my digital camera?
0 Votes
+ -
Heck if I know
John Carroll 3rd Mar 2008
...was this blog post included with links related to digital cameras?

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