ie8 fix
madison

Happy Birthday...I've stolen $2500 from your account

By | October 27, 2008, 6:18am PDT

Identity theft is a fast-growing problem, and I’ve taken it seriously for quite awhile. I pay to have people monitor my credit to ensure someone doesn’t open accounts in my name, and I try to use temporary credit card numbers when I make online purchases. I shred personally identifiable information that I receive by mail, the better to deter “dumpster divers” who might use it. I’m also a stickler for using complex passwords on any site that provides access to financial information.

There are many, many ways, however, to have your identity stolen, and though from hindsight this should have seemed an obvious possibility, it wasn’t something that I had taken sufficient care to avoid.

As the title of this post implies, someone managed to fraudulently withdraw $2500 from my bank account using an ATM card that was a clone of the one my wife and I have in our wallets (I’m not sure whose card was the original source of the information). This was discovered the night before my birthday, and though I am sure to get all the money back (banks do insure for these kinds of things), it did mean that I spent all day Friday running around faxing, mailing, and filing police reports, which wasn’t exactly the way I intended to spend the day.

According to a detective at the West Hollywood Sherrif’s department, a group of individuals had apparently installed a device inside a gas station pump in the area. This device had access to all information entered through the payment point. This includes full details of information stored on the magnetic strip on the back of cards (why, oh why, aren’t smartcards as common here as they are in Europe), as well as anything entered via the keypad, such as a PIN number or a zip code. The device included a wireless transmitter that broadcast 300-400 feet, allowing someone seated in a car located nearby to capture all the information generated at the pump. At the end of a hard day’s work, the thief would use this information to print the data onto card “blanks.” Given that my information was for an ATM card, they used it to visit bank machines far from my area of town.

I was somewhat surprised, however, that my bank’s fraud detection routines did not flag these transactions. The individual (or individuals) who made the withdrawals took out nearly the maximum amount that was allowed in a give day, and did so repeatedly over the course of three days. Perhaps the first transaction would have been overlooked, but the second and third (followed by a fourth and a fifth a few days later)?

What brought the problem to my attention was the fact that my ATM card was not working, though oddly enough, not because of the fraudulent use of my account.  Rather, the block was placed due to a “suspicious” transaction that sent some money overseas, and which was made by my wife. Foreign transactions, apparently, trigger a lockdown in ways that three straight days of withdrawals from my account (each of which was close to the daily limit) did not. I sure hope I never lose my ATM card in Las Vegas.

Anyway, I really should have been checking my bank account more frequently, and from now on, I’ll be a lot more careful about where I use an ATM or credit card. In fact, I used to be a lot more particular about that in the past. What changed, I think, was gas prices. Before, it never took more than $20 to fill my car.  More recently, the cost was often more than I had in my wallet as cash.

I should, in other words, make it a point to have more cash on hand, though it does occur to me that that has its own security issues. People can spike ATM machines with card detection devices as well. ATM machines, however, tend to be a bit more secure because they contain large quantities of cash. Barring an epidemic of electronically-altered ATM machines, I’m unlikely to go truly old school and wait in line to withdrawal my money from a human teller.

It is odd, however, to think that modern technology is creating its own hindrance to a cashless society. I certainly carry less cash on hand these days than was the case before, as digital payment alternatives have spread their reach over the years. Such payment mechanisms’ popularity, however, rests squarely on our ability to trust in their security. Credit cards and bank ATMs may be willing to reimburse us for fraudulent charges in order to encourage us to use them, but it is still wise to reduce our dependence on them. Perhaps this will motivate more bulletproof security mechanisms, provided security problems prove a sufficient inconvience to trump the convenience of easy digital payments.

By the way, I’ll be at the Microsoft PDC in Los Angeles this week, thus continuing a trend wherein I opportunistically attend conferences as a member of the press when they come to my home town. I’ll be sure to write about anything I discover there (though keep an eye on Mary Jo Foley’s and Ed Bott’s blog, too, as they are both rumored to be in attendance).

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John Carroll has delivered his opinion on ZDNet since the last millennium. Since May 2008, he is no longer a Microsoft employee. He is currently working at a unified messaging-related startup.

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Biography

John Carroll

John Carroll has programmed in a wide variety of computing domains, including servers, client PCs, mobile phones and even mainframes. His current specialties are C#, .NET, Java, WIN32/COM and C++, and he has applied those skills in everything from distributed web-based systems to embedded devices. In his spare time, he enjoys the world of digital video, and served as director of photography and editor on a feature-length film produced in Limerick, Ireland, as well as a low-budget production filmed in Los Angeles that used Panavision digital cameras (the same ones used by George Lucas in the later Star Wars episodes).

John worked in Microsoft's Mediaroom division from May, 2005 to May, 2008. He is co-founder of ForgetMeNot Software, a creator of unified messaging software targeted at telecommunications providers, where he currently works as Director of Technology.

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re; merchants
rodek Updated - 3rd Nov 2008
We had a scam recently in Ireland, where the merchant received a vist from one the credit card service team ! He had fake id relating to the company who supplied the credita card machines.
He said he was there to upgrade firmware,then said that there was an issue with his machine and replaced it with a new one which then sent all the card info to the scammers !!
The merchant was not aware of anything untoward until the bank phoned and said they had complaints from his customers.
Anyway the bank paid all the customers back.
I think the banks should look after their own machines.

Rodek
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Unattended ATM machines...
Confused by religion 27th Oct 2008
...are just waiting for someone to doctor them up with card readers and PIN capturing capabilities.

I stopped using my ATM card anywhere except at the bank or at a grocery store where it is very unlikely that anyone has had a chance to tinker with the ATM reader. Cash is now the only safe currency of choice.

This has become so common in northern California that seeing people use the cash option at gas stations is the norm rather than the exception.
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I think it also has to do with
Linux User 147560 27th Oct 2008
people not wanting their spending habits tracked so they can be targeted for ads and such. So it's a combination of things really.

I know the wife and I use cash for just about everything as well. We just don't feel corporations need to know our spending habits. I believe that's an invasion of privacy and I know many others feel the same way. And as you pointed out, people are paranoid (rightfully so too!) about their financial identity being stolen. devil
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a few years ago
merc2dogs` 28th Oct 2008
I stopped at a gas station for fuel, paid for it with my debit card.
While paying I noticed there were two readers, the cashier ran my card through one reader, then a second later passed it through one sitting next to it, struck me as odd. Asked about it, and he said that one didn't read right. That struck me as even odder.(I mean if you know it doesn't work why use it?) When it rang up, he asked me to enter my pin, I was already in suspician mode, so looked around and noticed that a camera was aimed not at the register or behind the counter, or at the aisles where it could catch shoplifters, but at the pad which was placed on the counter behind a waist high rack so you had to stand well to the side of it to enter your code. I told him I forgot my glasses and couldn't read the pad, then moved it out of camera shot, jumped in my truck and called the police. Then went to the nearest bank and changed my pin.
A week later I heard that he had over 500 cards scanned and the numbers on camera for all of them.

Moral?, stores aren't safe either.

Ken.
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I was going to say... don't you log into or check your bank account at least every other day? I know I do, everyday. While the fraud protection security is pretty decent for most banks and credit company's, just like with any other kind of security you are your first line of defense. Kind of like having a weapon to protect yourself and family from an intruder while you are waiting for the police to show up. devil
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Not everyone...
914four 28th Oct 2008
...has time to log into their bank account every day. I have set up a second account that cannot be accessed from the ATM, and keep only a few dollars in my primary. I can transfer money online to withdraw when I need to, making it a 2 step process but less tedious than checking my account every day. I also get reports from an independent credit firm to ensure that no one has taken out a mortgage on my home.
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Moral hazard
Anton Philidor 27th Oct 2008
Mr. Carroll has proven that banks and other financial institutions do guarantee against loss.

Most people, I expect, avoid theft because of the losses and the inconvenience. If the losses are minimal, then there's not as much reason to avoid non-cash theft.

The inconvenience after identity theft means that people will not be entirely heedless. But the absence of financial loss probably means the issue will not get as much attention from most people as it receives from the few who are very concerned.

As a result, I think people will use non-cash means of payment as much as in the past if not more despite any vulnerabilities.
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ABout 2 yrs ago I heard a similar story; now when I get home one of my evening objectives is a daily bank acocunt check to match it against my checkbook and be sure nothing like this happens. Good article, thanks
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The real moral hazard is the continued use of DEBIT CARDS and pin numbers!! I keep all my debit cards locked up in a safe.

Credit cards offer significantly more protection and those firms appear to be agressively on the lookout for suspect transactions.
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I know all about how its done, how to clone, all that good stuf. Its really not that hard. Easy money means weak a point in the system.

Use credit cards. They have more intense tracking on those and will shut them down much quicker.

I took a trip to miami then came back, gassed up on the way down and the way up, then went to buy a stero... declined. I had to call and verify transactions. This was all over the course of 3 days.

BoA is one of the most secure banks that i have found. Their online protections and monitoring really do a good job.

I also have credit watch from equifax, though i think its sorta expensive.. it does come with credit reports.

but as with anything.. the more exposed it is, the more vulnerable it is. Use your atm to withdraw/deposit money at your bank and maybe inside your trusted grocery store where there are cameras 24/7.

As for ATM use outside of the bank... i think machines that require you to insert the card are safer than the ones you swipe.. but as per your story.. it sounds like they actually installed a device inside the pump. Its a weak target... depending on the gas station type. I tend to go to well lighted stations that have cameras.. but that isnt 100% safe.

Also note: Be aware of companies that require your credit card to "hold" or "insure" your account status.
At www.insideidtheft.info we are seeing more and more stories like John's. Clealry there is a trend developing.
In the UK where we have the 'chip and pin' its not much more secure. Criminals can install tiny digital cameras at the ATMs, as well as card readers so that they can see what your pin number is.

They will then use the card to make a small payment to a charity or something, and if it goes through OK, they know that they can fraudlently use the card.

KJR
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..It was done exactly as the W. Hollywood sheriff describes. The guy put a detector in a bank ATM machine, and whenever anyone used the ATM card, it transmitted the data to him while he waited in a car down the street. Then he made copies of the data onto blanks. He had a way of getting the PIN numbers too.

Maybe the movie was War Games, maybe not. It was a movie about a kid genius who had all these robotic gadgets.. He gets in some trouble, and while on the run he needs money so he rigged up this computerised way of stealing cash from ATM's. In the flick, they made it look so easy... So easy that a guy in real life was able to siphon your Debit card data just like the kid in the movie!

Sounds to me like the crooks who set this up, might have seen the movie I am talking about... And the guy who wrote the movie might have hit too close to home with the information and these guys were able to exploit it.

What is scary, is that this could have happened to you anywhere, and if you do not know which gas station had the compromised card reader, this could happen again.

I hope you are able to find out who did this and slam their head into a wall.

I had my little bit of DebitCardDrama this weekend... I had checked my Paypal Account and it showed that I had about 55 dollars available to my card.

I needed to get Gas, and my big mistake was that I went to an Arco station- Now Arco has about the worst gas, they have crap added to that gas that causes your engine to rot from the inside-out... But to top it off, they have the worst ATM system, No Credit system, and they charge you 45 cents to boot.

I should have driven down the street to a real gas station.

So I tried to use my card, and it starts going through, and just when it looks like it is going to let me get gas, big letters pop up saying the card is DENIED.

Now I thought that was a huge mistake so I tried again, and it would not even let me stick the card in the slot the second time!

Finally I had to find another gas Station that allowed Credit Card purchases. The Thrifty station also did not have a Credit Reader.

So I had to go to the Exxon station across the street, and this time I tried to use my Paypal Debit card as a credit card, and THAT was denied as well!

So, after using my Credit Union Credit Card, with only 2 dollars in the account- It gave me the gas on Credit, as long as I made my deposit this AM, which I did.

So, my PayPal Card. This was all the money I had, I had no other money this weekend. I thought I had reached some limit, because I did use the Paypal Credit function to buy some HDMI cables from a Radio Shack- About 90 dollars (I know I could have gotten them for 6 bucks per 12' cable elsewhere, but I really needed them).

The next AM I tried to use my Paypal Debit to buy breakfast - DENIED! This really caused me quite a jam. Since I had never had my PayPal card ever frozen, I never even considered that my card might have been put on hold.

After I got myself out of a Paypal -induced pickle, I got home, where my phone rang and it was PayPal Security, making sure it was me who was trying to use my card. I told them it was most definitely me, and would they please lift the hold or whatever they had done. I was 100% positive that I had not overdrawn it, I knew what was in there down to the penny.

They told me I had to call the Customer Service, which I did.

Now- If you think I was pissed at Paypal, you are right, I was totally pissed at them, as I saw no reason for this to have happened, and Security did not tell me the reason why the hold had been put on.

So I call Paypal Customer Service and I dialed up the Debit Card department... And was surprised by an instant response!

The agent went over every debit of the last 2 days, but then he told me that it was ARCO.

ARCO had put a 75-DOLLAR HOLD on my account!

75 bucks for Gas I was not allowed to get. What a kick in the arse.

It was explained to me, the 75 dollars was a PRE-AUTH. Normally, when you do a credit transaction using the card, a one-dollar PRE-AUTH charge shows up for one day, and the next day that charge is gone and the amount you spent shows up in the register.

Well- This was a DEBIT function- Those bastards put a 75 dollar HOLD on my account for a DEBIT function!

So, I got an instant education from the Paypal Agent, and the result is this: "If the gas station does not have a credit card function - Do Not use your DEBIT card there!"

I thought that 75 bucks was pretty extensive for a PRE-AUTH, but in fact the agent said, that a PRE-AUTH can be from one-dollar to a couple of hundred dollars.

So, now I have lived and learned: Arco? Never Again! Maybe there was one of those transmitters in the card reader!

But what impressed me, was Paypal's Immediate response to what could have been unauthorised use, and my regular bank would not have even checked. I have been using Paypal as an intermediate "Wallet" but I'll be using it more now- It's more secure than my bank ATM'S!
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Debit card at gas stations
lonniemcclure 28th Oct 2008
I had a similar experience using a PayPal card at a gas station. It took 3 days before the authorization disappeared and freed up the $75 it was holding hostage.

At least the gas station I currently use for gas purchases has a warning notice on their pumps regarding the authorization amount that will be placed if debit is selected.

No such problem using my bank card if I select "credit", even though it is a debit card.
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RE: Happy Birthday...I've stolen $2500
fatman65535 27th Oct 2008
You are fortunate in that your bank covered the loss.

Since I ofter read The Register, there has been some "discussion" about something called "Verified by Visa". It appears that it is a way for the banks to shift the liability back onto the customer. Once you have signed up for VbyV, they claim that your transactions are "secure"; but the reality is different. The customer is put in the position of having to prove that they didn't make the transaction. Because of VbyV, you are assumed to have made the transaction.

The problem is that it (fraud) is considered an economic crime; so the punishment usually does not deter the criminal.

I think, that if fraudsters were to be executed like the scum they are; the losses may end up going down. One way to start in that direction is to start holding merchants responsible for their card equipment's security. Imagine the CEO of TJ Maxx going to jail for life because of their data breach?? Imagine the banks going back against TJ Maxx for their losses??? That would send a message. Get serious on security.
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Go after the merch!
jonny@... 28th Oct 2008
I believe they tried to get this bill passed, in California, at least, but Arnie wouldn't sign it. So now we still aren't allowed to go after people who just leave people's personal information from their cards and what not just laying around (I use that term literally and as a metaphor). We can't go after the merchant, the banks are responsible. Which would be great if I worked at a large corporation, but I work at a very small local Credit Union. Get a few thousand numbers, that'll be a few ten thousand dollars of loss.


[\frustration]
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re; merchants
rodek Updated - 3rd Nov 2008
We had a scam recently in Ireland, where the merchant received a vist from one the credit card service team ! He had fake id relating to the company who supplied the credita card machines.
He said he was there to upgrade firmware,then said that there was an issue with his machine and replaced it with a new one which then sent all the card info to the scammers !!
The merchant was not aware of anything untoward until the bank phoned and said they had complaints from his customers.
Anyway the bank paid all the customers back.
I think the banks should look after their own machines.

Rodek
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Torrent download sends e-mail virus
BALTHOR 27th Oct 2008
I received an e-mail today threatening me with legal action because of my illegal download activities on Btjunkie.The attachment zip file that was supposed to explain everything was detected to be a virus by my virus scanning program.None of the Torrent downloads that I have recently tried has worked and I commented a complaint.
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cashless society
pgit 27th Oct 2008
Bad idea. Very bad idea. Worse than 1984 in te nightmare department.
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cashless society....
michael.tindall@... 27th Oct 2008
Read the Book of Revelations, around chapter 12 or so, paying particular attention to THE MARK OF THE BEAST.
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My bank has a solution for that...
Samun56 27th Oct 2008
.. but before you ask, it's not a US bank, I'm based in Spain. The bank is called Bankinter.

The solution is simple: Every time *anything* is charged on my card, I get an SMS on my mobile, detailing the amount and the entity that charged it, plus a link to block the card if necessary. If I detect any suspicious activity, as occurred to me once, I can block the card under a minute after the transaction was performed.

One of my colleagues (same bank) told me that the police was able to capture the fraudster of his card, because he reacted so quickly that the guy had barely left the shop where ha had bought some sporting goods with his cloned card.

So there are solutions... but better check for a bank that provides this kind of service.
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SMS for every transaction
dalinevanzyl 27th Oct 2008
Even in South Africa we have this service from our banks that you receive an SMS for any debit, credit or cheque card transaction.

And yes I still check my accounts regularly.
Here in the Netherlands, ATM's are equipped with card
skimming devices and webcams by criminals to check the
PIN codes typed in. So, it's not safer at all. Of
course, credit cards that are simply swiped without
other forms of authentication are most susceptible.
We do have the chip based cards, whith allows you to
sore money on the card itself, which means you need to
steal the physical card to get the money. Somewhat
safer than cash and not too susceptible to misuse.
I have taken the line that I only use my ATM/Debit card for ATM withdrawals, and I do my best to get cash only from in-network ATMs. The protections for Credit Cards are much better than for debit cards.

Even so, Scary Stuff.
First of all, an ATM card should ONLY be used to retreive cash from ATM's. They should NEVER be used anywhere else. Second, I've been thru an ID theft situation, but different facts. My credit card was duplicated and used for a number of transactions until the credit card company contacted me. The important question is HOW did the perps get hold of my credit card. According to the credit card company, the perps captured the important info and then created a dup card probably on a home computer.We know that the dup card was swiped at the places where charges were made, not over the Internet or telephone. So, where did the original card become in the hands of the perp to capture my info. I suspect it was a resturant where we hand our credit card to the wait staff who then take it to their workstation. The solution is to pay with cash, or a system where the info is captured at your table, in front of you and then is encrypted so it cannot be seen by the resturant staff.
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flagging overseas purchases
paul613 28th Oct 2008
I live in America. By coincidence, two days ago my credit union placed a hold on my VISA debit card when I used it (or tried to use it) to order some audio software from an overseas developer. I didn't receive any notice, by email or phone, but after a day I figured out why my card kept getting rejected.

I straightened it out, and my credit union offered to allow overseas purchases in the future. I thought about it for 2 seconds, then told them, "No, thanks," I'd rather live with the occasional inconvenience than take a high-stakes gamble.

But please, credit union: When you block my card, LET ME KNOW!
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Cash is secure
ashepard@... Updated - 28th Oct 2008
Cash has never hurt me. With revamped bills, cash seems like an even better option.

Its also easier to use for babysitter, tips, friends who need a $20 spot and when a california fire takes out the power so credit card does not work.

Allen
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Cash is a wonderful thing
fromthehip 28th Oct 2008
I try to use cash for as much as possible. Cash is a wonderful thing. Why would I want a cashless society?

It seems to me that the only compelling reason for that (from the consumer's standpoint) was to reduce theft, but it seems that doesn't work at all. In fact, giving my ATM card to every high school dropout behind the McDonald's counter seems like a pretty bad idea.

The government would probably like to see a cashless society so they can track transactions (hopefully just illegal ones) more easily. I am sure it would make the job of the IRS easier when some criminal reports $30k on his income taxes, but spends $300k. However, annonimity is a good thing even for those of us who follow the law.

BTW, I always get a kick out of the Visa Check Card commercials where everybody is paying with their ATM card. Then one person wants to give them (horrors!) cash, and the cashier (gee, I wonder where that term came from) doesn't know how to handle it.
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I avoid cash
lonniemcclure 28th Oct 2008
I tend to avoid cash, and rejoiced when grocery stores and fast food places (sometimes needed for lunch at work) started accepting credit cards.

No one is going to reimburse you if your cash is stolen.

Not carrying cash also has other advantages. When someone comes up to me begging for money, I can say with complete honesty, "Sorry, I don't have any cash on me".
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Which gas stations were affected?
kokuryu 28th Oct 2008
I am in Hollywood myself too...
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RE: Had the same thing happen
union pier 28th Oct 2008
I had a debit card duplicated and my account emptied out in another country and wasn't because of a card scanner. Just forking over the card to a waiter / waitress who is is in a theft ring can get more than enough info. My bank tells me since no cash was taken and was purchases only they just took the basic info off the card itself and duplicated it. And they told me any further charges in the clearing house could not be stopped. The banks in this country do not take security seriously at all. "Just the cost of doing business". They did replace my account by the way
In the UK, there are organised gangs from The East who seem to take petrol station franchises for just the purpose of ripping your card.
The cashless, paperless society seems to be getting farther away from reality all the time.

At any rate, happy b'day from another 10/25 kid!

On a sadder note, I just got the message that my cousin, Bob Carroll pased away, with his funeral last Friday, too...

Dave
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This is happening every where all the time. I was had someone steal my ID and it will never happen again. I monitor my own credit online getting the emails when something is added or when someone requests a credit report. I check my bank accounts daily. For me there is never an excuse not to check my bank account, it only takes 5 minutes out of the day. 5 minutes can make the difference between $2500 stolen and what would have been just $180 on the first day.
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www.worriedaboutidtheft.com
karleckert@... 28th Oct 2008
worried about id theft
VISIT
www.worriedaboutidtheft.com
Is there a coming generation of credit cards that will require a concurrent fingerprint to initiate a transaction? The fingerprint info could be uniquely timestamp- and location- encrypted for transmission and authentication at the card company. And for security at the swipe device, the fingerprint must be collected by the card not the device.
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I was in NY with my daughter and her friend. I needed to buy 3 subway passes on Mon July 28th, and ended up scanning my debit card 4 times.

Shortly there after, I was getting odd charges in groups of 4. It looked like one day I had 4 identical "test" charges (under $10). THen I got hit with 4 charges for $100 to "ITUNES" then another 4 charges to "ITUNES" a day later. My 4 sequential reads at the subway station clearly put my card information on some list 4 times.

Yeah, I closed my checking account and debit card. Yeah the bank gave me my money. But had I not caught it quickly, they would have harvested my account over and over again along side the 100s and 1,000s of other card numbers from NY MTA stations.

I had a unique situation -- 4 transactions in a row. And no one at MTA cared, no one at National City's fraud dept cared. They just told me it wasn;t my problem.

There were stories about problems with the MTA vending machines having problems and being "slow" that day and shortly there after.

I think they were covering for a large number of fraudulent readers on their vending machines that week.

maijamc @ gmail . com

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B02EED9103CF93AA15754C0A96E9C8B63&scp=7&sq=ny%20times%20subway%20vending&st=cse

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/01/nyregion/01mta.html?_r=1&scp=6&sq=ny%20times%20subway%20vending&st=cse&oref=slogin

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/29/nyregion/29subway.html?scp=4&sq=ny%20times%20subway%20vending&st=cse

It definitely seems to pay to have cash even when traveling in NYC, where my primary concern was guarding against being mugged.
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I've learned the hard way that there simply is no security system, either for checking accounts or credit cards, on the part of any of the major banks. I've had to close two different checking accounts and three different credit cards simply because someone obtained my account numbers. The fraudsters made no attempt to use my name or to duplicate my signiture. They simply submitted debits to my accounts and those debits sailed right through. The banks at least were honest about the problem -- in all cases, they said that as long as there are sufficient funds in the accounts, or the credit card is under the credit limit, there is no attempt to verify that the person charging is actually the account holder.
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You can set up all kinds of alerts on your checking account and debit card (and credit cards, too) to send you emails or text messages based on triggers.

I have mine set at $75 for ATM withdrawal, anything over that I get an email immediately. For purchases, I have it set to $100. Any large purchase over that amount, I get an email. You can set a limit on "unscanned" purchases, also, to let you know about online usages.

US Bank has this available on their credit cards, although I notice that it is sometimes delayed. Just got an email today, for a big purchase made last Friday afternoon.

NO, I DON'T WORK FOR EITHER ONE.
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Hmm.. It's really a form of electronic mugging.

It is a tricky situation however I am wondering - if the ATM's are that easily accessed and modified then maybe it is something inherent with the design of these units.

Sorry it has happened to you,
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Cash is king...
mikifinaz1@... 28th Oct 2008
I use cash, few cards (like two), have my cards locked down, and never ever put my personal information of any kind (even my name) into a computer. I also play switch-up every three months on email etc. While I have only me banks have huge IT departments to protect them, so no I don't do anything on the Internet but read posts etc.

No problems so far...
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RE: Happy Birthday
rketchum@... 28th Oct 2008
Checks also. They don't have you fill them out,sign them or ask for ID. Exactly $100 at gas station I have never been to.
As careful as I have been, I still got a call from the bank that my Mastercard was used to charge a charity contribution of $1.73 in England (I live in California).

All you probably need is to use your card online for a purchase and have some spyware or keylogger on your system. Use of your cards in stores is bad too. At least the last time I was in France, your card never leaves your table (they use wireless) and even that isn't perfect (If you can't trust the merchant, who can you trust).

I think the idea of having text messages and email alerts set on your accounts is a great idea. If you keep the settings low, you can get almost a verification for each and every transaction.

My bank has a picture of the card slot on their ATMs so you can tell if someone installed a reader.
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ATM Machines are Draconian...
wolf_z 29th Oct 2008
...in their security measures. You would not *believe* the hoops an ATM installer has to go through to insure the machine has not been compromised.

Also, first-line and second line technicians would instantly spot extra hardware--and shut down the machine on the spot. That's SOP.

While it's *possible* for an independently owned ATM to be compromised the likelyhood is it won't be. Visa is turning into a really, really vicious monster toward the ATM community, with massive fines and penalties for compromised machines.

I can't speak for gas pumps, of course... happy But I doubt a gas pump is equipped an EPP the way ATMs must be.
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Banks NEED for you to use your ATM cards!
terry flores 29th Oct 2008
I get weekly mailings from my banks telling me all of the wonderful reasons why I MUST use my debit card for ANY purchase, no matter how small. Wells Fargo went so far as to change their limits so that ALL of the money in a checking account can be withdrawn via ATM in a single day (i.e. no limits). So now a crook can steal my entire account in one day. Gee, thanks sad

These days everybody wants a direct tap into your accounts. EFT's, checks treated as EFT's (which give users very few protections), automated payments, and even plain-old direct deposit transactions can ALL be subverted and used to steal your money. As another person pointed out, the banks and credit card companies are actively working to push the liability onto the customer ("Verified by Visa" is the biggest scam). And of course the marketing juggernaut never ceases. It's up to the consumer to recognize that "convenience" works both ways, for the user as well as the thief.
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Smart card is the answer...
amunar@... 30th Oct 2008
For more than 20 years smart cards had been here with an active device instead the passive mag card that any geek can found in the internet how to clone. But a mag card costs 10 cents and a smart card cost 5 dollars... so wich technology will you use? Ok, smarts cards are not impossible to greaks, is just harder, and mag cards, piece of cake.

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