ie8 fix
madison

Net neutrality vs. house republicans (or "scalded by tea")

By | March 1, 2011, 10:17am PST

Summary: House Republicans’ war against net neutrality rules is symptomatic of a gross simplification of economic principles that is typical of today’s Tea-flavored Republican party.

John Boehner thinks net neutrality rules are a threat to freedom in the United States (paraphrased, but that’s the thrust; click the link at left to see him in his own words). It’s a weird concept, given that Capitalism is replete with restrictions on freedom. I’m not free to borrow my neighbor’s car without asking, and when I sign a contract that I break, my freedom is greatly impinged by the full force of the legal system that will fall upon my rule-breaking head. I can’t reprint the latest Stephen King novel and sell it in a book store, and if I want to build a skyscraper, the government will spend lots of time making sure I adhere to stacks of engineering standards.

Capitalism, in other words, isn’t economic anarchy. It requires the creation of walls and barriers that guide human productive activity in useful directions. It’s a framework, built on rules created and enforced by government, that is as artificial as the gleaming reflective skyscrapers in downtown Los Angeles.

Granted, Capitalism is designed to harness natural impulses. Humans tend to be very good at focusing on the things that affect them directly, an impulse that has been described as “selfish” by some economists, but is really just a reflection of the human condition. We are, for all intents and purposes, ships sailing alone in life, and though we may lash ourselves to other vessels periodically (my wife may resent that comparison), our experiences are still uniquely our own. No outside entity can gather the same level information about our wants, needs and requirements, and that’s why central planning boards have a hard time out-thinking the collective rationality of individual buyers and sellers. Those vessels navigate the economic seas armed with more accurate information than any third party could possibly collect. That is, in one paragraph, the essence of Austrian Economist Ludwig Von Mises criticism of Socialism.

But therein lies the paradox of Capitalism. Yes, you need to respect the collective decision-making power of the masses, as it has the most accurate information upon which to base choices. On the other hand, you must have a structure that channels those impulses. If that wasn’t the case, Somalia with its absence of government would be a Capitalist paradise. The walls that guide the capitalist mice through the maze are as essential to the functioning of capitalism as the mouse’s desire to find that yummy cheese.

There is a point to all of this, and it is that, in my humble opinion, Speaker of the House John Boehner (R-OH) and the entire Tea Party-inspired Republican party have fetishized one critical aspect of Capitalism as if it was the only thing that matters. I spoke in a previous article about fixating on the engine to the exclusion of the wheels, chassis and steering wheel (among other things). Just to add to my metaphorical heap, I think the current Republican stance on net neutrality is like telling a long distance runners to eat carbohydrates exclusively, all the while ignoring the fact that most keel over in a few weeks from scurvy or some other vitamin deficiency.

As I explained in that previous article, ISPs and providers of network access have a real need to make money from their infrastructure. If they don’t, bandwidth constraints tighten rather rapidly as providers have little incentive to boost capacity to support the massive shift in user behavior precipitated by rapid growth in the consumption of Internet video. I’m contributing to the bandwidth problem, as I have cut the chord to subscription cable services, replacing my television experience with what I can stream through my XBOX 360 (your mileage may vary; I have a second child on the way, so it suits me perfectly).

There is, however, an inherent conflict of interests. Carriers have a strong economic motivation to do things to hinder competitors like Netflix who are “stealing” away subscribers from their built-in video streaming options. They don’t even have to do something so crude as banning access to Netflix servers. They can just price things such that Netflix, as an alternative, is uneconomical. Don’t think carriers would do that? Did you think banks would erase the risk premium on bad loans by packaging them into securities that were sold to Icelandic pensioners (among others)?

It’s a simple and obvious choke point. Carriers control the data pipe that leads into your home. Due to the difficulties of laying parallel wires that serve the same customers, most users have, if they are lucky (and many aren’t), only two credible alternatives for fixed-line broadband. That is, by any standard, a monopoly position as unassailable as the oil pipeline’s control over the distribution of an essential source of power across this country (which is why Reagan turned them into common carriers). Why wouldn’t it makes sense to make sure carriers can’t abuse that position?

Arguing that the FCC’s rules aren’t properly designed to do what they aim to do is one thing. What the Republicans are arguing, however, is essentially that the problem does not exist, couching it in soft, gauzy words like “freedom” and “constitution” to hide the fact that economic goals aren’t their primary consideration. Badly understood abstract principles are what matter, and that is a serious problem.

Like I said before (and I can quote myself as much as I want): “I hate the language of rights.” It obscures ability to deal with the goals we are trying to achieve, painting the battle between the different options in near-religious terms. How can one consider creating rules that prevent carriers from blocking video alternatives when what is being proposed is the functional equivalent of enslavement? It’s like arguing with someone that believes that he can’t get medical treatment for his child because God doesn’t want him to.

As parting words to those who like to put everybody into neat and simple categories, I’m about as free market as it comes. I’m a big proponent of reducing global trade barriers, and believe that real freedom can only come when we stop hiding behind the walls of the places we were accidentally born and start thinking about the GLOBAL economy (and well being) as things that really matter. Sitting in my blog someday pile is a response to David Gewirtz’ ridiculous notion that Apple should use robots to replace foreign workers so that approximately 1000 Americans can replace a 100,000+ Chinese work force (which I called the Cylon solution…never mind, it isn’t important). Heck, I don’t even think Reagan, the man who pushed through the biggest amnesty of illegal immigrants in this nation’s history and was a driving force in the global free trade negotiations that led to the WTO, would have disagreed with me.

I’m a free trade, global freedom advocate. I just happen to understand what in the hell makes capitalism work, and it isn’t some blind devotion to the notion of the invisible hand. If that was the case, Japan’s MITI program wouldn’t have built all the major Japanese electronic manufacturers from the dust of WWII, Korea’s Chaebol wouldn’t have given us Samsung and LG, America’s university system wouldn’t be the best in the world (18 of the top 20 are American, and many of those are public), and a simple thing like turning oil pipelines into regulated common carriers wouldn’t have made natural gas competitive. Granted, Japan and Korea supported their favored industries for too long, and there is always a limit to what government should do in education (K-12 education in the US is a marked contrast to our experience at the university level), but the principle stands. Government is an essential component of capitalism, and all the gross simplifications won’t change that.

The invisible hand, in other words, is a force that only functions properly if provided the right context…and context takes work. Markets exist only in the presence of sensible regulations designed by smart people who have the incredibly difficult task of designing rules that guide the individual choices of billions of economic actors in useful directions. I don’t pretend that is a simple thing to do, but I reject categorically Republican willful refusal to even try.

Absence of government isn’t economic nirvana. It’s Somalia. I sometimes wonder if today’s Republican party understands that.

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Topics

John Carroll has delivered his opinion on ZDNet since the last millennium. Since May 2008, he is no longer a Microsoft employee. He is currently working at a unified messaging-related startup.

Disclosure

John Carroll

http://blogs.zdnet.com/carroll/?p=1412

Biography

John Carroll

John Carroll has programmed in a wide variety of computing domains, including servers, client PCs, mobile phones and even mainframes. His current specialties are C#, .NET, Java, WIN32/COM and C++, and he has applied those skills in everything from distributed web-based systems to embedded devices. In his spare time, he enjoys the world of digital video, and served as director of photography and editor on a feature-length film produced in Limerick, Ireland, as well as a low-budget production filmed in Los Angeles that used Panavision digital cameras (the same ones used by George Lucas in the later Star Wars episodes).

John worked in Microsoft's Mediaroom division from May, 2005 to May, 2008. He is co-founder of ForgetMeNot Software, a creator of unified messaging software targeted at telecommunications providers, where he currently works as Director of Technology.

Related Discussions on TechRepublic

Did you know you can take part in these discussions with your ZDNet membership?
153
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

RE: Net neutrality vs. house republicans (or
jr0353@... 30th Oct
Is Reed Hastings the real author here? Can't be, cause he's smart enough to know if the left gets it's way with this, down the line they'll also be able to choose the content & 24 hrs a day of nothing but An Inconvenient Truth will drive us All insane. JB JR
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Net neutrality vs. house republicans (or
Richard Flude Updated - 1st Mar 2011
"If that wasnt the case, Somalia with its absence of government would be a Capitalist paradise"

Capitalism deals with the ownership of economic resources. The absence of government doesn't define capitalism, indeed the protection of private property can be undermined without the support of the state, which is exactly the case in Somalia.

The economic principles behind the free market and Smith's invisible hand are simple, they're not made so by their proponents.

Since the discrediting of controlled economies their proponents now talk of "sensible regulations". However it's no more obvious what constitutes "sensible" as other forms of government intervention.

Competitive markets are the goal, these are not always obtainable. Significant market failures exist in the real world. Use this measure when evaluating legislative impacts, not some imagined view of capitalism.
0 Votes
+ -
@Richard Flude He is definitely on the right track but has just a couple of things wrong. Replace capitalism with "free market" and he is dead on. The second problem is that you can't tie this directly to the Tea Party. They are all over the place. This particular issue is at the feet of Libertarians.

Its the Libertarians with this pipe dream of a truly free market. They go on talking about market forces as if they are the laws of physics themselves and can't be bent, broken or ignored altogether. It completely ignores the exact types of situations described in this article where a governing body has to impose some rules. I don't mean to cast a light on all Libertarians but IMO they border on mental illness. A system like this will crash into complete turmoil in no time flat. Those that have began to back them in the Tea Party have put no thought into what they are saying. They have just joined into the anti-government sentiment. Once someone infringes on their IP as business owners they'd be calling on that same government to stop them.

Then theres the markets where profit motive just doesn't make sense when crossed with human nature and neccesities....
0 Votes
+ -
@storm14k True, the tea party IS all over the place, but the republican leadership is responding to averages. The tea party certainly makes libertarian noises on average, so the republican leadership is responding to that.

Libertarians fixate on the engine of capitalism, as a rule, when they aren't trapped by the language of rights, thus preventing them from properly evaluating goals. I certainly find plenty of agreement with some aspect of libertarian ideology, even if I don't buy the theology bit (theology, in this case, equals trying to slam everything into narrow holes oriented around rights).
0 Votes
+ -
@John Carroll

Its a matter of scale....much like physics ironically. Libertarian ideas work on a small scale like neighbor to neighbor business, community stores etc. Its not that the ideas are bad. Its just that they don't scale well and they refuse to believe that.
0 Votes
+ -
Wrong argument
Richard Flude Updated - 1st Mar 2011
"Libertarians fixate on the engine of capitalism..."@John Carroll

Libertarians are fixated on individual liberty. We don't, as a rule, fixate on the ownership of economic resources as history has chosen that for us (are you advocating an alternative system?). Some Libertarians are actually against private ownership altogether (not me)

Liberty requires an ability to make decisions for oneself. In an economic context (only a part of Libertarian thinking) such freedom is supported by free AND competitive markets. Free markets are typically a feature of capitalist systems. In this context Libertarians, who believe in private ownership (i.e. the right), are generally supportive of capitalist & free market economic systems.

JC, however, is talking about is the optimal level of government interference in the quasi free market, capitalist economies we have today in countries like the USA or (mine) Australia.

Libertarians are correct (in an economic context e.g. Austrian school) to talk "about market forces as if they are the laws of physics themselves and can't be bent, broken or ignored altogether" @storm14k. The forces don't change, you can use them to influence the outcomes.

My understanding of the US Tea Party movement (from a distance) is they believe in smaller government. Their belief is from the position that government expenditure or interference is typically not very efficient. Inefficiencies lead to lower standard of living than could be obtained through more efficient use of resources.

Examples of government inefficiencies are very easy to find. JC's response is that "smart people" can design effective legislation avoiding such failures. I'm wondering what evidence he has for such belief. The examples (Japanese and Korean massively supported large industries, US education system) provided in his article don't instil much confidence (as admitted in his article).
0 Votes
+ -
So the wise guys start talking again
LBiege Updated - 1st Mar 2011
Every once in a while you guys come up claiming to be able to regulate the market better than the invisible hand. OK. Let's review what marvelous jobs you pro-regulation folks have done for this nation, shall we? Here we go.

Fannie Mae: Housing bubble propeller.
Social Security: Retirement insecurity.
FDIC: Almost collapsed had it not been TARP
Federal Reserve: Dollar crasher.
Medicaid / Medicare: Tens of trillions dollar unfunded blackholes.
SEC: Too busy watching online porn to catch Madoff
... ...

See the problem of know-nothing wise guys is that they are seldom do-nothing-ers, and they keep intervening with the market the same way after each failure to expect a different result - the classic definition of insanity.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
Richard Flude:
I disagree with your understanding of the Tea Party. Bush damaged the GOP brand so badly that they need a new flag to rally around. Thus the Tea Party, currently being co-opted by the "formal" GOP, at least that is what the GOP is trying to do. We will know in a month if the Tea Party caves and takes up the GOP talking line and the GOP money.
0 Votes
+ -
Bush and the neocons
klumper Updated - 4th Mar 2011
@mswift
Bush damaged the GOP brand so badly that they need a new flag to rally around. Thus the Tea Party.

Bush and the neocons were (are) nothing but servants to Israel and Big Oil. They were an eight year blight that subverted the Republican party along with its core values [only don't tell their party cheerleaders over at Fox News, or their Marxist counterparts at MSNBC]. By bankrupting the GOP, they awarded the nation Obama. Now we're all paying the price.

But Carroll and other one-world liberals don't care to view the Tea Party as anything but the "enemy," regardless of what the platform stands for, or the fact that it began as a grassroots movement. [That must hurt the most.]

Fact is, they put simple values and ideas into action at the commoners' level, and it resonated. Something egalitarians like Mr. Carroll can only dream about as they push their no-borders stripe of "capitalism" to be everyone's savior. That included a call for overdue reforms from both the GOP and government at large, and a curbing of the growing cancers that are socialism and taxation.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
@LBeige
Let's address your "points" one at a time...

Fannie Mae: Housing bubble propeller. Not exactly. Banks deciding to ignore basic lending principles and speculators bidding up housing prices were two other drivers of the housing market bubble. Fannie Mae didn't help anything, but to lay the housing bubble at the feet of Fannie Mae ignores reality.

Social Security: Retirement insecurity. No. Not even close. Crack open a history book and look at what retirement meant before Social Security. What you'll find is that retirement was something that the ultra-rich had to look forward to. Everyone else either worked until they died, lived with their children or moved into the poor house. The day Social Security became law was the first day in American history where there was retirement security.

FDIC: Almost collapsed had it not been TARP. You're really confused on this one. The FDIC would have been severely burdened without TARP, but it wasn't in danger of collapsing. A few more banks would have folded, but that probably would have been a better alternative then establishing a "too big to fail" mentality for Wall Street banks.

Federal Reserve: Dollar crasher. The Fed doesn't always make the best decisions on quantitative easing or setting interest rates. Last I checked, the dollar hadn't crashed. I can't seem to recall a single time that the dollar has crashed since we've had a federal reserve. It has fluctuated up and down like every world currency, but crashed? I call "Chicken Little" on that one.

Medicaid / Medicare: Tens of trillions dollar unfunded blackholes. Medicare, like social security, has been well funded for decades. The problem is, when there are surpluses the federal government just takes the extra money and spends it elsewhere. This leaves a hole in years where there is no surplus. I liked Al Gore's idea of a federal lockbox. Leave money where it's supposed to be and stop stealing it to pay for other things. Want to fund a war, raise money for it. Want to expand an entitlement program, raise money for it. Don't rob from Peter to pay Paul because it gives the impression that things are unfunded.

SEC: Too busy watching online porn to catch Madoff. One out of six...nothing to write home about. The SEC, like many regulatory agencies, need watchdogs to make sure they are doing their job. Since the heads of these agencies are political appointees, their focus changes every few years. In my mind, they should be more like federal judges...still political appointees for the most part, but their influence is longer than whoever is in the White House for the next 4-8 years.
0 Votes
+ -
The utopia of the free market.
bezoeker 6th Mar 2011
@Richard Flude
You only need the state for protecting private property to create your competitive markets?
Give an historical example of that. If that was really somewhere the case, in whose benefit was it?
0 Votes
+ -
Message has been deleted.
0 Votes
+ -
Overanalysed
guihombre 1st Mar 2011
You assume he believes his own argument, but he's doing what Republican do, attacking on his weakest point.

So you might feel ripped off that Telco's want to charge you directly for a service, then indirectly by charging MS XBox market which will then pass the cost onto you... and you may feel you're a prisoner to their cartel.

So he makes the claim about 'freedom', he's protecting your 'freedom'. See it's not about Telcos ripping you off with a double charging regime... no, it's freedom!

Just as he was when he was lobbying for immunity from prosecution for telcos for the the illegal wiretapping. As I recall he said warrants more about 'protecting terrorists more than protecting Americans'. Again the law is there to protect the American people so he flips it and attacks on that point.

It's not that he believes that, it's not that his 'freedom' argument needs to be analyzed, he knows he's doing something bad hence the misdirection.
0 Votes
+ -
I hope the author
sackbut 1st Mar 2011
didn't break his arm patting himself on the back for writing this lengthy dissertation. That would be a shame, since it nothing but a pile of horse$hit.
0 Votes
+ -
@sackbut Two whole sentences to call me stupid, and not a single point made in the process. Congratulations.
0 Votes
+ -
I am kind of surprised
sackbut 1st Mar 2011
@John Carroll
that you caught on to the fact I was calling you stupid. It doesn't take a lot of bandwidth to make the point. I didn't bother to count the number of characters in your post, but it was much longer than most on ZDNet. However, even if you get paid by the word for your drivel, it is still that, and I didn't need more than two sentences to comment on it.

Supplying points of fact on a blog like this is a waste of time and energy. I would NEVER get any agreement from you, and you will always have the last word no matter how wrong you are.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
@John Carroll Excuse him. You didn't sound enough like Glen Beck.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
@storm14K - and thank god for that.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
@John Carroll
Mr. Sackbut told us a lot about himself. Didn't make a single point.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
Message has been deleted
0 Votes
+ -
that doesn't understand anything.
@sackbut
0 Votes
+ -
@GoPower
As opposed to a misguided, ignornant democrat with no moral compass?
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
@sackbut

you just made his point, self righteous oversimplification.
0 Votes
+ -
Message has been deleted.
0 Votes
+ -
@sackbut It's funny how all you can do is make ad hominem attacks but make no actual points about why he's wrong or stupid...
0 Votes
+ -
Exactly what I was thinking!
adornoe@... Updated - 2nd Mar 2011
Mr Carrol took a long essay to try to redefine what "capitalism" is, while trying to re-analyze what "net neutrality" is about and how the "republicans" and those nutty "tea partiers" are not allowing his world vision to take hold.

This overly lengthy article, is, nothing but tripe, disguised as another "net neutrality" post, and it's nothing better than a tortured attempt to redefine what the democrats believe that capitalism is about.

The democrats don't get it, and Mr Carrol is just as clueless, if not more so.
0 Votes
+ -
@adornoe@...
An on ideology based method that would give the best performance, that will be the day. Are there other cases?
Something like a world crisis every 10 years, great performance.
Looking at it from outside the US, I may miss some differences between the generations defending the magic of invisible hands, but I think my position gives me a nice general view.
You know, economies being touched by this ideology perform worse than others. Like the Chilean one where the theory's where implemented in cooperation with the dictatorship.
I don't think anybody should listen to those theories until things are put right. After R. Reagan "it are not the banks but the government that is the problem" started demolishing the protections build in under president Roosevelt after the financial crisis of the Thirties and Clinton, following the republican lead, finished the job, the banking system imploded few years later evaporating the money of so many people. That they start talking again after a refund. That for that refund they do not forget the damage abroad. Perhaps they can use some of the funds that now are "invested" in public relations. The funds now used to convince people defending measures against their direct interest.
We are waiting...
The Republicans have fetishized Comcast, AT&T and the other ISPs, to the detriment of millions of innovative, competitive companies.

Unlimited consumer choice of whatever online bookseller, dating service or hot rod supply store is responsible for this amazing environment. The Republicans are blind to the fact they are killing the golden goose.
0 Votes
+ -
sarcasm: Yes, but...
John L. Ries 2nd Mar 2011
@JohnVoter
...property rights trump all others. If you don't like your ISP's rules, then pick another ISP. If you don't like any of your local ISPs' rules then raise a billion dollars and start your own (if your bank won't lend you that much, it's probably because you're not trustworthy). If your competitors team up in an effort to shut you down, then it's just the Free Enterprise System at work and is guaranteed to be in the public interest (if there is such a thing).
0 Votes
+ -
A more serious response
John L. Ries Updated - 2nd Mar 2011
@JohnVoter
If you don't approve of the behavior of your elected officials, then vote against them, even if you don't like the alternatives much better (and don't rule out minor party or independent candidates, they probably won't win, but votes for them do force the major parties to pay attention). Even if you don't like the politicians you have, let them know what you think and why you think it. It might or might not do any good, but doing nothing will definitely not help. The system isn't perfect by a long shot, but your odds are better if you work within the system than they are if you just whine about it.

Also, the fact that elected officials decline to do the right thing doesn't mean that you can't make your own buying decisions. If your ISP plays stupid power games, then switch, even if it's inconvenient to go elsewhere (but make sure they know why you're doing it), and even if you have to pay more money or sacrifice bandwidth to do it. If you must, give up your home Internet service completely and take your laptop to your public library, rather than give in to an abusive ISP. Corporations get away with as much as they do because their customers let them. Hence, the only way to keep them honest is to withhold patronage from those companies that don't deserve it, even if it hurts.
0 Votes
+ -
@John L. Ries

There is only one ISP where I live. I've tried both satellite services and they are not usable for the work I do. I'm currently paying $60 a month for a nominal 1.5M dsl line that averages 600K until about 3pm when it goes below 400K and sometimes down into dial up territory with latencies in the high 100s. For a faster line I need to spend about $100,000 to get fiber run which is not profitable for me.
0 Votes
+ -
mswift: Then your ISP has you over a barrel...
John L. Ries Updated - 2nd Mar 2011
...and probably acts accordingly (an excellent reason to patronize monopolists no more than is absolutely necessary). But we still do what we can. Apostles of laizzez faire pretend that every purchasing decision is a conscious vote in favor of the "winning" vendor. That isn't true for most people, who will simply take the path of least resistance, but I think it only beneficial to make it that way for real as much as possible. Such conduct is not a substitute for responsible legislation or political activism, but every little bit helps.
0 Votes
+ -
You make no sense...
adornoe@... 2nd Mar 2011
The Republicans have fetishized Comcast, AT&T and the other ISPs, to the detriment of millions of innovative, competitive companies.

That makes no sense at all.

Unlimited consumer choice of whatever online bookseller, dating service or hot rod supply store is responsible for this amazing environment. The Republicans are blind to the fact they are killing the golden goose.

That too makes no sense whatsoever.

Do you pride yourself on not having any common sense?
0 Votes
+ -
Please explain...
John L. Ries 2nd Mar 2011
@adornoe@...
...why it makes no sense. It's possible that you believe, as I once (wrongly) accused John of believing that unregulated markets work so well that it's impossible for a vendor or any combination thereof to conspire against the public interest without being promptly spanked by the Invisible Hand, but I'm hoping that you'll speak for yourself on this.
  • Flagged
comments of JohnVoter?

Secondly, even your statement sounds confusing.

However, it sounds like you're taking the side of JohnVoter with his liberal views on economic matters. Are you on the side of liberals who believe that, government should have control of any part of the economy? Should government be so intrusive and so over-regulating that, eventually, the economy gets so over-burdened to the point of collapse? That's essentially what happened in the last 60 to 80 years, and it's only recently catching up to us.

Regulations are fine, but not to the point where they become burdensome and business just can't cope any more.
0 Votes
+ -
adornoe: "Regulations are fine..."
John L. Ries 3rd Mar 2011
@adornoe@...
"...but not to the point where they become burdensome and business just can't cope any more."

Agree in full. I see commercial regulation as a cost/benefit thing. In a perfect world, they wouldn't be necessary, but we don't live in such a world, so they are. Can they be overdone? Of course.

As far as "government having control over any part of the economy", rulers and governments have been meddling in economic matters since ancient times. Complete separation between government and commerce sounds nice in theory, but it's never been practiced anywhere that I'm aware of, except in the imaginations of Ayn Rand and her followers.

Personally, I prefer publicly owned monopolies to privately owned ones, but I'd rather have a competitive market than either one. I'm not generally in favor of publicly owned enterprises competing with private ones, but I'm not fanatical about it either (there's nothing wrong with the IRS accepting electronic returns directly from taxpayers, or with government employees writing their own software instead of paying a contractor to do it for them).

I'm opposed to privatization or outsourcing of core governmental functions for a variety of reasons, starting with the fact that they have historically been linked to graft.
I see commercial regulation as a cost/benefit thing.

When the cost of regulations ends up being the creation of burdens, where companies are forced to move operations and jobs overseas, or to close shop, or to drop jobs at home, then the benefits are overwhelmed by the damages. Sorry, what we have attained in the U.S. is unsustainable intrusion into the free-market system. We're paying the price right now.

In a perfect world,

Why even bother with that phrase? It's an immediate introduction of a disclaimer in an attempt to excuse the inexcusable.

they wouldn't be necessary,

The vast majority of regulations are unnecessary, and many regulations are created in order to create more areas in which government will have some sort of control into how businesses will operate, including wage legislation and the kind of energy which they will use, and the type of employee a company will hire (unionized or not), and the benefits which those employees will have.

but we don't live in such a world,

The "strawman argument"...

which then causes someone to propose that...

so they are.

Can they be overdone? Of course.

It shouldn't even be a question. It's a resounding, YES!!! They've been overdone, and many, if not most, are unnecessary.

As far as "government having control over any part of the economy",

Remember that, we're talking about the U.S., where the constitution, as laid out by our founding fathers, purposefully created a weak federal government.

rulers and governments have been meddling in economic matters since ancient times.

And, it's always been to the detriment of the economy and the people and the country in general.

Because it's happened in the past, and it continues happening, is not an excuse to allow it to happen.

Complete separation between government and commerce sounds nice in theory,

Other than reasonable taxation for the running of a government's mission, government and the markets should be kept separate, and the power belongs with the people and, because people are the key components of any business, then businesses should be the ones making demands upon government. It shouldn't be the other way around.

but it's never been practiced anywhere that I'm aware of,

We were doing quite well in the U.S. before socialist policies, introduced around 100 years ago, started giving government more power and oversight over the private sector businesses. Socialism, eventually, turns any economy into crap, and we are witnessing that all around us. Heck, big brother is even getting into telling us what kind of foods we can eat, and how much salt we're going to consume. That kind of decision is between the doctor and you.

except in the imaginations of Ayn Rand and her followers.

Believe it or not, I've never read any of Ayn Rand's books, but, most common sense and business logic doesn't have to come in the form of books. Government intrusion into any market almost always results in disaster, even it it sometimes takes a long time for those results to manifest themselves.

Personally, I prefer publicly owned monopolies to privately owned ones,

Right, like the USPS. Nice!

Haven't you noticed that, anytime government runs anything that, it always ends up being less efficient and more expensive, and very wasteful?

Those that refuse to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat the mistakes.

but I'd rather have a competitive market than either one.

A competitive market would preclude government intervention, and it would exclude any government controlled industry or business. With government, there is no competition. What happens when government is the "only" solution to a problem? Well, you end up with just one single way of doing things, and you can't do anything about seeking out a competitor to take your business to.

I'm not generally in favor of publicly owned enterprises competing with private ones,

If you haven't learned the lessons of publicly "owned" or publicly controlled, then all you need to do is to study up on how the old USSR did things, and how Venezuela and Cuba and China do or did things. If you like what Venezuela and Cuba are doing, then you belong in a place like that; meanwhile, the U.S. is not that kind of place, but, we're rapidly heading that way.

but I'm not fanatical about it either (there's nothing wrong with the IRS accepting electronic returns directly from taxpayers,

Is that an example of government regulation or government intrusion?

That's a simple example of government allowing a convenience, no matter who thought of it.

or with government employees writing their own software instead of paying a contractor to do it for them).

Like I mentioned before, government tends to be inefficient and wasteful and slow and very costly. If government needs to have anything done, let them take bids from the private sector, which can do it better and at more competitive prices.
I'm opposed to privatization or outsourcing of core governmental functions for a variety of reasons, starting with the fact that they have historically been linked to graft.

Government operates at the will of the people, at least as far as the U.S. is concerned, and when it comes to managing the purse strings, the money still belongs to the people. Government should not "own" anything, not even it's processes or procedures, and it shouldn't control anything without the "will" of the people. Operating as a separate entity and not answerable to what the people want, is an invitation to government and political corruption. So, take your pick: government corruption, or private sector corruption. Which is preferable?

It's a lot harder to fight government corruption because, it's a vast and unfriendly bureaucracy, and politics are often hard to overcome. That's why you end up with corrupt government entities, like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the politicians to protect them, like Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi and Chris Dodd, and even Barack Obama. And, now, we end up with a law in the books for government takeover of healthcare. Politicians and government officials can become entrenched, and it's very hard to replace them when the electorate can be so clueless when, most of what they do is elect people based on what goodies that congressperson is going to be putting into the next bill that will benefit a voter's district. That is not how the private sector operates, and when a businessperson goes berserk or corrupt, chances are there will be competition to replace them, or that the business managers will find quick replacements; that's something that doesn't happen easily in government, and especially when government officials are protected by special laws.

No thanks.

Take your big government ideas to some other country.
0 Votes
+ -
My ideas are my own
John L. Ries 5th Mar 2011
@adornoe@...
And if they don't belong in the U.S.A., it's unfortunate, as I have lived here all of my life, except for 16 months in South Korea, and there really isn't any other country in which I want to reside. My ancestors have resided in what is now the United States for nearly four centuries, and some of them fought in the Revolutionary War, as well as subsequent wars. I genuinely believe in the concepts of human rights delineated in the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Bill of Rights, and echoed in the constitutions of each of the United States and many other constitutions and laws throughout the world. If my ideas are un-American in your eyes, I think they're more compatible with the political consensus here than anywhere else. Besides, it seems to me that the most precious of all human freedoms are those to think for oneself and to discuss one's ideas with others (and I think the Founding Fathers would have agreed). Without such freedoms, a human being cannot be said to be free at all.

So call me a heretic if you like (that's what your subject line amounts to). If I ever mature to the point that "heretic" is the worst name I can reasonably be called, then I'll be a happy man and prepared to meet my maker with a clear conscience. I hope it's never decided that ideas not compatible with the political theories of what used to be called the New Right cannot be tolerated in the US, but if it is, I think serious thought will have to be given to what is to be done with the millions of Americans with opinions you deem un-American. I don't think exiling us is a viable option, nor is interning us all in "re-education camps" as the North Vietnamese did to southerners who declined to embrace Communism. I suppose you could try to disenfranchise us enough of us to make us politically irrelevant, but that has a tendency to backfire, as the authors of the 14th Amendment discovered in the years following the Civil War. It would be nice if a serious effort was made to win us over, but there are few now deemed credible by the modern "Conservative Movement" who even try (to his credit, Ronald Reagan did). One thing for certain is that the only reason I will ever change my opinions on anything is if I discover them to be erroneous. I've never attempted to toe any party line but God's (and on that, I'm only accountable to Him), and I don't intend to start now.
0 Votes
+ -
My ideas are my own (part 2)
John L. Ries Updated - 5th Mar 2011
@adornoe@...
I was intending to respond briefly to your specific points, but it didn't turn out that way:

1. I agree that in many cases, commercial regulations are overly burdensome and complicated. Which cases and what is to be done about it, reasonable people can and do differ. Many of them are good faith attempts to prevent abuse and insure the public safety and should be rethought; others are really oligopoly maintenance and should be scrapped (as noted elsewhere, I much prefer competitive markets and dislike large concentrations of market share). Still others are better handled at the local level (which also helps to eliminate constitutional concerns). I've long believed that laws should be simple, easily understood and easily complied with. I suggested several months ago that it might be better to allow judges and juries to decide cases individually than for bureaucrats to try to write rules covering every contingency. If we did that, then I think we'd need a lot more judges, and less cumbersome rules of procedure, but I think it is a way forward.

2. Maybe I was a bit flippant about it, but I still maintain that the complete separation between government and commerce advocated by Ayn Rand has never been seriously attempted anywhere in the world. Certainly it was not attempted by the founders of the U.S.A. For example, the First Congress chartered the Bank of the United States and enacted this country's first patent and copyright laws. States have been chartering commercial limited liability corporations since the very beginning (according to me, we'd need a lot less regulation if they didn't exist. or could be effectively restrained by the governments that created them). The U.S. Postal Service you derided was created by Congress under the Articles of Confederation. Interestingly enough, the first state university I'm aware of was the University of Virginia, founded by libertarian poster boy Thomas Jefferson. What's done now is probably overkill, but that is a matter of reasoned discussion, not insults, hyperbole, or recriminations.

3. On the subject of privatization, contracting, and outsourcing of core governmental functions, the two most effective words I could say would be "Boss Tweed", followed possibly by "publicans". I think that a consideration of the history of Tammany Hall and other political machines, followed up by a consideration of the history of outsourced tax collection, privateers, and mercenary armies should give pause to even the most committed champions of governmental outsourcing. At the very least, outsourcing of things governments are legitimately responsible for doing creates conflicts between the profit motive and the public interest, and complicates the chain of command (consider the career of Sir Henry Morgan). There are good reasons for governments to employ contractors (mostly for manufacturing, construction, and fulfillment of temporary needs), but it should be kept in mind the that market for government contracts bears little resemblance to the sort of free market Adam Smith envisioned, and I see little hope that it will ever be otherwise.

Likely, we'll debate these things further, but I hope we can concentrate on the merits of the issues and avoid insults and namecalling that won't persuade either of us.
0 Votes
+ -
My ideas are my own

Some of your ideas aren't that much different from those of big government advocates who believe that government knows best.

And if they don't belong in the U.S.A., it's unfortunate, as I have lived here all of my life, except for 16 months in South Korea, and there really isn't any other country in which I want to reside. My ancestors have resided in what is now the United States for nearly four centuries, and some of them fought in the Revolutionary War, as well as subsequent wars. I genuinely believe in the concepts of human rights delineated in the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Bill of Rights, and echoed in the constitutions of each of the United States and many other constitutions and laws throughout the world.

Fine and dandy, but, irrelevant.

There are a lot of people in the U.S. who were also born here and who have ancestry dating back many decades or centuries, but, their love of country is missing or they behave as if they would prefer a different lifestyle and different government and different culture than the types we've had for more than 200 years.

If my ideas are un-American in your eyes, I think they're more compatible with the political consensus here than anywhere else.

It's not a matter of un-American, it's a matter of trying to change our lifestyles and our economic system, which have worked quite well to the benefit of all, or at least most. When something works and it's worked better than anything ever conceived before, then, it's best not to mess with it. What other economic system has been as successful as what made America the best and biggest economy ever on the face of the planet? Messing with success had turned our economy into a huge mess from which recovery is virtually impossible now. And then we have the best government structure ever devised, with our constitution and our bill of rights, and the separation of powers between the states and the federal level, but, we have too many wanting to change that with the federal government getting more and more powerful as time passes with more and more power being usurped from the local level govenments.

Besides, it seems to me that the most precious of all human freedoms are those to think for oneself and to discuss one's ideas with others (and I think the Founding Fathers would have agreed). Without such freedoms, a human being cannot be said to be free at all.

Fine and dandy, but irrelevant.

Nobody is trying to control your freedom of expression.

The question is about, changing a country that has been the most successful, with its constitution and freedoms and separation of powers, and then, creating something that the founding fathers would not even recognize and which they warned us about.

So call me a heretic if you like (that's what your subject line amounts to). If I ever mature to the point that "heretic" is the worst name I can reasonably be called, then I'll be a happy man and prepared to meet my maker with a clear conscience.

Are you trying to make yourself into a victim? You're turning the discussion into something completely different from the subject at hand and from what I stated or retorted with to you.
I hope it's never decided that ideas not compatible with the political theories of what used to be called the New Right cannot be tolerated in the US, but if it is, I think serious thought will have to be given to what is to be done with the millions of Americans with opinions you deem un-American.

Did I ever use the phrase "un-American"?

Philosophical differences are one thing, trying to fundamentally transform the country from what the founding fathers intended and created is quite another.

I don't think exiling us is a viable option, nor is interning us all in "re-education camps" as the North Vietnamese did to southerners who declined to embrace Communism.

Woah, fella! What I said is that there are places which would be more fitting to your political and government philosophies. You can either live with what we have, or you can move to a more accomodating environment, which might sometimes equate to another country. That's what the the Europeans and others originally did when they started settling in the "new world", when they were disgusted with religious and political persecution by the rulers in the countries from which they came. What was true then, is still true now. One doesn't have to live where they feel "different" from the majority of the population or where they are disgusted with the major political philosophies in existence.

I suppose you could try to disenfranchise us enough of us to make us politically irrelevant, but that has a tendency to backfire, as the authors of the 14th Amendment discovered in the years following the Civil War. It would be nice if a serious effort was made to win us over, but there are few now deemed credible by the modern "Conservative Movement" who even try (to his credit, Ronald Reagan did).

Fine and dandy, but stil irrelevant. (Have I said that enough?).

Look, playing the victim or looking for sympathy is not going to work.

You're changing the whole character of the discussion and you've gone into huge tangents. Stay on subject.

One thing for certain is that the only reason I will ever change my opinions on anything is if I discover them to be erroneous.

Actually, I don't believe that. Try arguing on topic and we can then talk..

I've never attempted to toe any party line but God's (and on that, I'm only accountable to Him), and I don't intend to start now.

You're changing the whole nature of this discussion, but, that's not going to help you with the discussion at hand.

And, hey, leave God out of this.

I was intending to respond briefly to your specific points, but it didn't turn out that way:

Yet, you took the time to go into huge tangents.

Being brief, or to the point is always preferable, but, staying on point is best, even if you have to be lengthy in your rhetoric.

I agree that in many cases, commercial regulations are overly burdensome and complicated.

It's not "commercial regulations"; it's government regulations imposed on the private sector that's the problem.

Which cases and what is to be done about it, reasonable people can and do differ.

The preferred thing to do is to not create the burdensome regulations to begin with.
Many of them are good faith attempts

But, too many in government don't bother to think about repercussions, or don't even care what the repercussion will be, even if they know. Good faith is oftentimes lacking in good judgment, and in logic. Socialism sounds good on paper, but it's never practical in the real world.

to prevent abuse and insure the public safety and should be rethought;

It's not always about "rethinking"; most of the time is about creating new burdens and new levels of government. That's what many people in government care about, and repercussions aren't even up for discussions once a political motive becomes the main driver or cause.

others are really oligopoly maintenance and should be scrapped (as noted elsewhere, I much prefer competitive markets and dislike large concentrations of market share).

In a free-market system, competition should be what drives the system, and if a few larger competitors do emerge to take over a market, hopefully, it wasn't because of illegalities or abuses. But, the illegalities and abuses can be taken care of in the court system, and more regulations would just make things worse.

Still others are better handled at the local level (which also helps to eliminate constitutional concerns).

That's what I've been saying all along. My beef has been about "big government" and big government regulations, and about big government getting bigger throught the usurpation of powers from the local and state levels of government. At the local and state levels, if a corporation or individuals don't like the local regulations, then hopefully, they can move to other areas where the regulations aren't as stifling. That would set up a more competitive environment at the state levels and the national level, but, with a federal level set of regulations, there would be no choices.

I've long believed that laws should be simple, easily understood and easily complied with.

It's not about the simplicity or complexity. It's about the intrusion. You could have a million regulations, all simple, but, you wouldn't be able to get anything done because of the intrusions. And you could have a few big and complicated regulations, which would still be intrusive. It's about, allowing the free-market to grow and be creative and to make sure it's capable of providing what the consumers want or need, at competitive prices.

I suggested several months ago that it might be better to allow judges and juries to decide cases individually than for bureaucrats to try to write rules covering every contingency. If we did that, then I think we'd need a lot more judges, and less cumbersome rules of procedure, but I think it is a way forward.

The fact is that, there would be a lot less need for so many judges and lawyers if we didn't create so many rules and regulations and laws. The original constitution and the amendments should've prevented most regulations, but, there were those that needed to "reinterpret" the constitution in order to get their politically motivated programs written into law, such as, Medicare and Medicaid and Welfare and Social Security. To get to that point, there needed to be a "reinterpretation" of what the "commerce clause" meant. And now, we're stuck with the messes we have now.


Maybe I was a bit flippant about it, but I still maintain that the complete separation between government and commerce advocated by Ayn Rand has never been seriously attempted anywhere in the world.

My argument is for both: the separation of government and commerce, and for the separation of government from trying to regulate every part of our lives. If government does not respect our freedoms, then nothing else matters, because, when our freedoms are gone, it means that regulations were the tools towards that loss.
Certainly it was not attempted by the founders of the U.S.A.

They were a lot smarter about the dangers of big government than most people in government right now.

For example, the First Congress chartered the Bank of the United States and enacted this country's first patent and copyright laws. States have been chartering commercial limited liability corporations since the very beginning (ac

Even there, I believe that government has no business creating a structure which the free-market could have done. The patent and copyright laws are fine. What the states enact is at least competitive, insofar as other states are allowed to do things differently.

According to me, we'd need a lot less regulation if they didn't exist. or could be effectively restrained by the governments that created them).

I don't like regulations at all, but, if they're at the local level, then at least the people and business have the "free maket" choices about where to set up shop.

The U.S. Postal Service you derided was created by Congress under the Articles of Confederation.

I derided the system because it's not efficient, it's wasteful, and it's been unionized to the point where it can't "deliver" on the promises that it was originally chartered. It has become very bloated and inflexible and very much controlled by politics and government officials. In the present day, it's functions can be better performed by private entities, even if with government oversight.

Interestingly enough, the first state university I'm aware of was the University of Virginia, founded by libertarian poster boy Thomas Jefferson. What's done now is probably overkill, but that is a matter of reasoned discussion, not insults, hyperbole, or recriminations.

That's besides the point, but still, government should not have a function in the education system other that to make sure that, all kids are educated to a certain level, and beyond that, it's the responsibility of the parents and the individual students. Government's function at any point is at the state level, and the federal should butt out. Chance are that, a state with a very low education standard won't be very competitive. But, that would be the free-market at work.

On the subject of privatization, contracting, and outsourcing of core governmental functions, the two most effective words I could say would be "Boss Tweed", followed possibly by "publicans". I think that a consideration of the history of Tammany Hall and other political machines, followed up by a consideration of the history of outsourced tax collection, privateers, and mercenary armies should give pause to even the most committed champions of governmental outsourcing.

You're misinterpreting or going far beyond what I said or intended.

The federal level of government does have its function, and one of those is a "standing army" or a defense structure, for which, the federal level should be completely responsible, including it's "employees", namely, the soldiers and marines and navy and air force. That's not a private function nor a state level function.

The support mechanisms for the armed forces don't have to be via "government employment" where people tend to become comfortable with their "union" jobs and where efficiency is no longer demanded and the costs are much higher and where fraud is harder to battle because of bureacratic entanglements..

At the very least, outsourcing of things governments are legitimately responsible for doing creates conflicts between the profit motive and the public interest, and complicates the chain of command (consider the career of Sir Henry Morgan).

You're still talking a national military, and I'm not suggesting that the armed forces be "privatized"; I'm looking to privatize the support functions which are basically "non-military". We don't need government employees to, for example, collect the taxes that government might depend on. And, we don't need government employees to build roads or to do the "pat downs" at airports. See where I'm going? It would be okay to collect the funding for those functions, but, let the competitive free-market handle the functions. Chances are that, there could be very considerable savings, and better systems, to boot.

There are good reasons for governments to employ contractors (mostly for manufacturing, construction, and fulfillment of temporary needs), but it should be kept in mind the that market for government contracts bears little resemblance to the sort of free market Adam Smith envisioned, and I see little hope that it will ever be otherwise.?

Nah! I don't believe that.

Any function that government provides, except for the military, can be performed by a private sector employee or a private sector business. I'm not looking for strict interpretations and implementations of Ayn Rand's ideas, or even that of or Adam Smith. I just want "government" to work "for the people", and that could mean "by the people". When a government is not directly answerable to the people, then we end up with something not as desirable as government "of the people".
Likely, we'll debate these things further, but I hope we can concentrate on the merits of the issues and avoid insults and namecalling that won't persuade either of us.

The merits is what I'm talking about. But, sometimes, people need to be told the error of their ways.

But, hey, at least you're a lot more pleasant to "argue" with than some others.
Let's use a simplified example. Here we'll use a shipping company as the Telco, a road as the internet backbone they built, me and my neighbor as internet customers of the Telco and finally the storage lot as a Torrent server or Netflix or any high bandwidth application. As the shipping company, to help your business you built a new road from your warehouse to the interstate and pay to maintain it. Now me and my neighbor live close to that road you built and come to you and say "Can I use your road to the interstate? It would cut 30 minutes a day off my commute. We'll each pay you $10 a month." You think, they each have 1 car and won't impede my traffic so you decide that's fair and agree. Now my neighbor owns a large construction company decided to move his equipment storage lot to the piece of property he owns next to his house. So here comes lots of heavy equipment, lots of employees and lots of traffic. You, as the maintainer of the road, say "Wait a minute, my trucks are having to wait while your's are trying to navigate into and out of the your lot and those big trucks of yours are eating the roadway surface and I'm having to spend a lot more on maintenance. I'm going to have to charge you more money." My neighbor jumps up and says "No! You can't do that. I'm not running a business here, I'm just storing equipment on property I own." I'm complaining "Hey, this road is always blocked and in terrible shape." And your drivers are complaining "Why don't you do something about widening this road so we don't get blocked." So now everyone is upset. I'm upset because I'm paying the same as my neighbor and having to wait all the time while his trucks block traffic and grind up the road with potholes. My Neighbor is upset because the you as the road owner want to charge him more than me to use the same road and youare upset because you have to spend more money maintaining the road and maybe make it wider. Everyone loses. It's a complicated issue and everyone on both sides seems to try to only see their own point.
@Scubajrr
Your long and winding story misses reality in a couple of places. Most importantly, network neutrality has nothing to do with bandwidth limitations. Therefore, everything you said is nonsensical.

Secondly, the roadway in question was built by the U.S. government, who choose to allow the ISPs to connect to it, not the other way around.

Thirdly, the ISPs don't even own the last mile connection to the public roadway, as they built it on the PUBLICLY owned right of way.

Finally, and most importantly, under no circumstance would we allow the braggarts who claim ownership of the curb between my driveway and the street to tell American citizens what stores they could or could not drive to. That IS what network neutrality is about.
0 Votes
+ -
@JohnVoter
The government built DARPANET and got the ball rolling. Almost all the expansion since then has been paid for by private companies.

http://www.davesite.com/webstation/net-history4.shtml
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Net neutrality vs. house republicans (or
partman1969@... 2nd Mar 2011
@JohnVoter
Funny I pay a Cable company for both my TV and internet service and it is the same company I see stringing newer wire and networking boxes on the poles when there is a problem or upgrade for faster service. They have not suggested caps or routed me to advertising beneficial only to them. It would be a shame to allow government to control policies I've grown quite accustomed to be tainted by FCC involvement. Oh and yes I do have a choice, I can use Dial-up (multiple vendors), DSL (multiple vendors) and satellite providers. If you feel efficiency is best handled via government means, just ask Katrina victims about FEMA efforts. I felt abused by Bush allowing the Patriot Act. How can you possibly feel comfortable by allowing the FCC (government) taking control of the biggest media, information outlet we have: THE INTERNET ?
0 Votes
+ -
@JohnVoter
And they never paid anyone for the road that they use and charge other to use, ie. the tax payers that they charge to use their on roadway ( the rightful owners).
0 Votes
+ -
@Scubajrr Oh the poor ISPs who oversell bandwidth that they don't have! We should all feel sorry for them for having a crappy business model and enable a new one! How about if they can't afford to have people use 200GB/month they cap it at 100GB/month and charge more for 200 and unlimited plans?

The thing is if it were actually about costs and not blocking content and using their position as an ISP to become competitive in other verticals (such as online video) and to bolster business in ondemand TV they would do what I suggested. But it's not, and it's really transparent to anyone with half a brain.
0 Votes
+ -
Is Reed Hastings the real author here? Can't be, cause he's smart enough to know if the left gets it's way with this, down the line they'll also be able to choose the content & 24 hrs a day of nothing but An Inconvenient Truth will drive us All insane. JB JR

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix
Click Here
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix
ie8 fix