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Net Neutrality: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?

By | December 9, 2010, 9:34am PST

Summary: The FCC is slated to make some decisions on the issue on net neutrality on December 21. Given a looming video-inspired bandwidth crunch, it’s important those rules are less about “rights” than economics.

A recent article in Bloomberg Businessweek got me thinking about the subject of “net neutrality.” The issue boils down to whether providers of Internet access (fixed-line phone networks, cable networks, mobile phone networks) should have the right to prioritize - or even block - traffic for certain services on their network. The fear is that carriers will have a strong incentive to hinder competitors to services they provide themselves, thus leveraging their control over the pipes into consumers homes to drive usages levels of those services. Phone companies might try to block VOIP traffic, or else hinder video traffic from Netflix, in order to protect revenues for their own Pay TV offering.

Of course, there are less overt ways to favor one’s own offerings over that of a competitor. Comcast recently increased what L3 pays to send additional data over its network. L3, as it turns out, is now Netflix’ chosen content delivery network. Comcast has also expressed a desire to institute bandwidth caps at some point, though has backed off near-term plans due to the negative publicity the declarations generated.

The problem for Comcast is one of vested interest. They have strong incentives to raise prices and institute caps that limit competition to their own fixed-line video services. This is what raises the hackles of net neutrality advocates, as it enables carriers to favor their own services without anything so obvious as slowing down packets from Netflix.

Preventing gatekeepers from using their power to lock-out competitors is certainly a noble goal. Even Ronald Reagan, a man touted by many on the right as a paragon of free market virtue, opted to turn oil pipeline companies - which are, in essence, the gatekeeper to oil consumers all across the United States - into “common carriers.”  This created an open market for oil over privately owned, but highly regulated, transmission pipes.

On the other hand, carriers have to generate a return on investment in order to continue to upgrade their networks. This may become a problem quite soon, if a Juniper Networks report is a fair approximation of reality.

Quoting “Will Video Kill the Internet, Too,” from the Dec. 6 issue of Bloomberg Businessweek:

The report predicts that carriers such as AT&T and Comcast will see Internet revenues grow by 5 percent a year through 2020. Meanwhile, traffic will surge by 27 percent annually, and carriers will need to increase their investments by 20 percent a year to keep up with demand. By this math, the carrier’s business models break down in 2014, when the total investment needed exceeds revenue growth.

By 2014, video will account for more than 90% of Internet traffic. As Michael Hatfield, founder of Cyan Optics, noted in the article, “this is the most dramatic change in the network that has ever occurred.”

By way of context, Juniper Networks is a vendor of networking equipment, and thus would stand to gain a lot from carriers convinced they had to buy large stacks of equipment to keep up with galloping bandwidth demand. On the other hand, the fact that Juniper Networks has an interest in painting the issue in the darkest colors doesn’t mean they aren’t identifying a real problem. An explosion in bandwidth demand is still very real, whether or not the economic tipping point happens in 2014, 2017 or 2020.

This has obvious ramifications to Netflix, a company whose future growth is linked to its fast-growing video streaming service. It also has ramifications for companies like Google (with Google TV) or Microsoft, who is currently in negotiations to roll out an Internet TV service for its XBOX Live and Media Center products. It also would affect me, personally, as I am one of those “cord cutters” who gave up subscription cable services in favor of video streamed over the Internet to my television (in my case, by way of my XBOX 360).

I still on occasion watch some of the over-the-air HD channels in Los Angeles, though I use Netflix’s on-demand video streaming service much more frequently. When Hulu finally comes to the XBOX, I am likely to pay the subscription fee, as it has the advantage of offering a number of shows the day after they are broadcast. On demand TV works perfectly for a guy who spends all day programming, most of the evening chasing his 17-month old daughter, and then has only an hour or two later in the evening to do other things.

In the past, I have vacillated somewhat in my stance on net neutrality. My instincts run in favor of the principles espoused by net neutrality advocates, because it is a valid economic objective to avoid media oligopolies (which is really a duopoly in many places in the US, split as it is between cable operators and, increasingly, phone networks). Just as it’s good that oil pipelines are prevented from playing the role of highly-profitable gatekeeper to the transmission of oil, it would be spectacular if I could pick and choose my source of media “a la carte” from thousands of providers around the world. Net neutrality would help to ensure that future materialized.

On the other hand, my economics side is very aware of the incentives principle, and network providers need profits to incentivize them to grow the network to support a video streaming future. Net neutrality advocate Google seems to concede that point, at least in part. The overload point has already been reached for mobile networks, which is the reason they proposed to exempt mobile networks from net neutrality mandates. Knowing where their “bread is buttered,” however, they insisted in full-on net neutrality for fixed-line providers, an argument that furthers their goal of developing into an Internet video service based around YouTube, and is easier to make now while carrier economics are still sound.

Net neutrality advocates often speak of the right of consumers to access any Internet service they want without interference by carriers. Those on the other side speak of property rights, and the incentives needed to build the network to support more data.

I hate the language of rights, favoring a more goal-oriented approach. The goal should be to maximize choice AND maintain incentives, something that is only possible if the people making the decisions aren’t trapped by the black-and-white language of “rights.”

It is good to have lots of choice in terms of media services. It is also good to maintain the profits necessary to incentivize carriers to build out their network.

We are heading towards a world of bandwidth caps on even fixed-line networks, barring the development of some amazing new technology that will make streamed video take up less bandwidth, or widen the pipe faster and at less cost. If we want to ensure that competitors to carrier-offered video services are on an even playing field, then the only option is through OVERSIGHT and REGULATION.

Regulation…a dirty word to many, but so very fundamental to the proper functioning of capitalism. That, to my mind, is the biggest problem I have with some libertarians (to say “all” is unfair, as on a continuum, I can be said to share many of their views). They are like people who fixate on the engine in a car, ignoring completely that an engine on blocks doesn’t do a whole heck of a lot.

Government provides the structure within which economic activity takes place. Part of that structure is rules that will attempt to maximize service choice given the constraints of a market that doesn’t lend itself to hundreds of competitors naturally.

The FCC is set to vote on net neutrality rules on Dec. 21. Given the looming bandwidth crunch, it is likely to be one of their more important decisions in quite awhile.

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John Carroll has delivered his opinion on ZDNet since the last millennium. Since May 2008, he is no longer a Microsoft employee. He is currently working at a unified messaging-related startup.

Disclosure

John Carroll

http://blogs.zdnet.com/carroll/?p=1412

Biography

John Carroll

John Carroll has programmed in a wide variety of computing domains, including servers, client PCs, mobile phones and even mainframes. His current specialties are C#, .NET, Java, WIN32/COM and C++, and he has applied those skills in everything from distributed web-based systems to embedded devices. In his spare time, he enjoys the world of digital video, and served as director of photography and editor on a feature-length film produced in Limerick, Ireland, as well as a low-budget production filmed in Los Angeles that used Panavision digital cameras (the same ones used by George Lucas in the later Star Wars episodes).

John worked in Microsoft's Mediaroom division from May, 2005 to May, 2008. He is co-founder of ForgetMeNot Software, a creator of unified messaging software targeted at telecommunications providers, where he currently works as Director of Technology.

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Jeringas de insulina
andra08 10th Oct
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John, thanks for a very detailed and balanced analysis of a contentious and politically polarizing issue.
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Balanced except for...
RedVeg Updated - 10th Dec 2010
@Churlish
a direct comparison of a 5% revenue increase vs a 20% increase in infrastructure investment seems balanced, but it isn't. One would have to consider how much is this infrastructure investment to start with. Increasing bandwidth is sometimes as "simple" as replacing a router with a better router and entails a far smaller expense that putting the original lines in place.

For example: If infrastructure investment currently involves spending 5% of their gross revenue and that cost goes up 20%, then 20% of 5% is an actual bottom line impact of 1%. In the face of a 5% revenue increase, that is still a net increase of 4%.

So, the article didn't include enough information to truly be "balanced".
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RE: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?
nickdangerthirdi@... 10th Dec 2010
@RedVeg and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce, they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does! heres the thing, its their responsibility to figure out how to make money off their investment, its obvious they will raise prices as one of the ways to do this, but I have no sympathy for them, the fact of the matter is the US rates 18th in the world in internet speeds, the Czech republic, and Romania are ahead of us, (and 15 other countries obviously) so if they can't even compete with those countries I dont feel sorry for them...
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RE: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?
zdnet-gregc 13th Dec 2010
@RedVeg

That is a very salient point. I've been on both sides of the equation in my professional career and as with most things the answer isn't simple. And what's certain is that the all the major players will maneuver to get the bet deal they can for their piece of the value chain.
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RE: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?
JimboNobody Updated - 10th Dec 2010
@Churlish, et.al.
I've probably been enjoying a free ride by streaming Netflix movies (though I do pay for higher internet speed to make sure it works). I tend to come down pro-neutrality, but more because I'd like to prevent giving government tools to restrict free speech (my nightmare scenario - party in power makes deal with carrier quasi-monopoly to make sure social networks with opposing opinions are suppressed. a.k.a. "you quash our opposition and we affirm your monopoly"). Furthermore, consider the result of short-sighted economic arguments. While I have three possible carriers (AT&T DSL, AT&T Uverse, and Clear) only Uverse is realistically capable of supporting video streaming and they are trying to develop their own on-demand service. For this reason, I'd prefer the "monitor usage and bill" approach over sanctioning the restriction of traffic. From a historical perspective, we would expect that neutrality, while it might lead to near-term bandwidth shortage, would spur development of higher speed infrastructure and more efficient transmission. That would be a better long-term result.
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@JimboNobody
If you pay for your internet connection you aren't getting a free ride.
Less likely that Government will restrict free speech and more likely that companies will restrict what comes over the infrastructure based on their profit margin. Companies are not governed by the first amendment of free speech. Only congress is prohibited from abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; -- corporations have no such restriction..
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RE: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?
gswank54@... 13th Dec 2010
@JimboNobody I tried netflix, living in Alaska it doesnt work very well. We overload the internet connection with the lower 48 every day when the youngsters get home from school. Also Netflix does not have very many movies to watch online and there mail service doesnt work either as you can only get about 3 movies a week from them.
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Jeringas de insulina
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Jeringas de insulina
andra08 10th Oct
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It's not that the ISPs want to make money that bothers me
Michael Kelly Updated - 9th Dec 2010
It's that they are trying to send the bill to the wrong party. Netflix does not create the traffic, they create the content. The ISP's users create the traffic. They are the ones who need to be billed, and they need to be billed fairly.

Internet providers are the ONLY utility company (and yes, that's exactly what they are) that does not bill on a usage basis. The water company bills by the gallon, the electric company bills by the watt/hour, the phone company bills by the minute (and they bill the party who MAKES the call, not the one who receives it). Why would an ISP not bill by the gigabyte? That is the most fair way to bill a customer, because the more gigabytes you download, the more traffic you create, and thus the more you tax the infrastructure.
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100% agreement..
doctorSpoc 9th Dec 2010
@Michael Kelly.. people are saying that his is difficult, but this is not difficult at all.. lol.. this is incredibly simple actually.. if an ISP's customer is not paying what it cost to service them you charge them more.. it's that simple.. but ISPs don't want to look like the bad guy and potentially lose customers so they seek to hid those cost or off load them to unsuspecting content providers.. this is just crazy.. makes no sense at all..
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They also gouge light users
shawkins 13th Dec 2010
@doctorSpoc
Not only do they want to offload onto content providers, but when they charge a flat monthly fee, they also force light users to subsidize the bandwidth hogs.
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RE: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?
billcheng 13th Dec 2010
@doctorSpoc - Excatly!

Apple and AT&T learned that the unlimited model was unsustainable and switched to the tiered pricing model. Why wouldn't that work for land line users?

Of course, the tiered pricing model needs to be reasonable when one goes over. We certainly don't want the "anything over your limit will be charged at 100 dollars per byte" type of model.

Here's my proposal in an example... You pay for tier X at P dollars per month. The next tier is Y at Q dollars per month. If you go over your limit but still within the limit of tier Y, you get charged extra for twice (or three times) the difference between Q and P.

What if you are just over by 1KB for the month? It seems unfair to pay all that much. We can have a price per MB over you limit.

Then you take the smaller of the two prices and that's what you pay this month.

See, it's really simple!
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RE: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?
evilkillerwhale@... 13th Dec 2010
@doctorSpoc

There are a lot of problems with your idea and the ones commenting on them.

Currently, you pay approximately 1 to 5 cents per Gigabyte on a land line service. On the other hand, inside the United States ONLY, you're paying $10/Gigabyte for mobile browsing. Like was pointed out earlier, we have the 18th fastest internet with the HIGHEST PRICES. A lot more people are so-called "light" user, and so the tiered option doesn't help the ISP. The problem is that the "light" users are starting to use the internet more, and the model of "well, we can just use their bandwidth sold to multiple people" isn't working anymore. The businesses didn't invest while they had money and now it's coming back to bite them in the rear. That is NOT the end user's fault. It is ridiculous to think that they are going to raise their prices because they didn't invest like everyone else did. That would be like a car manufacturer realizing that their car doesn't get as good of gas mileage as advertised, and thus charging you each month to increase your gas mileage to what they PROMISED and you signed a contract to. Currently, they sell more bandwidth than they have. This means they are LITERALLY selling nothing to some people. The consumer getting screwed by that is utterly ridiculous.

That being said, the government only screws things up when they step in. It's the companies' fault that this is happening, but there's no one to stop it.
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Also agree
ericesque 9th Dec 2010
@Michael Kelly I'd love to see the ISPs tell people where they can shove their entitlement.
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RE: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?
bobiroc Updated - 9th Dec 2010
@Michael Kelly

I would agree to that with a few clarifications. An ISP is not a utility company like the Electric, Gas, and Water Companies. Also in those cases you are using a physical resource that in some cases can be replenished but not always instantly. If the ISPs want to change their billing model then that is fine but so far it appears they are focusing on only certain services like Netflix in this case. For years ISPs have been advertising unlimited internet for a set price and now all of a sudden they want to change that and it is really coming off like greed because they feel they are losing revenue from their TV broadcast services. There are poorer foreign countries that have a better internet access model than we do with much higher speeds and cheaper prices.

Edit: One last thing all these other companies that have metered services have ways for the customer to measure the amount they use with meters installed in their home for the Gas, Electric, and Water. The phone/cell phone companies do the same but in most cases the meter is on the phone. How is a consumer to compare their usage to what the ISP says they are using? Are they going to install a meter between their modem and your computer?
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RE: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?
Michael Kelly 9th Dec 2010
@bobiroc

You are right, the ISP is more like a phone company in that regard. Which is still considered a utility. And the phone company does not bill a person who receives a long distance call, they bill the person who initiates it unless all parties waive that.

I say if Netflix chooses to be like an 800 number and pay the toll charges and Comcast can arrange a method of tracking that, then by all means they should go that route. That way Comcast's customers can stream all they want and not have to track their GBs, Comcast gets paid for its services, and Netflix looks golden to the customer because it's footing the bill for the GBs.

But otherwise it is the end user who initiates the transaction, and like a long distance phone call, they should pay for it. For a phone call you pay per minute, for internet you should pay per GB. Keep in mind that both parties do pay for the initial connection even now, the same way the receiver of a phone call has to pay a phone bill to even receive a call. It should not be forced upon an unwilling party. If an unwilling party is willing to lose traffic because the people connecting to it do not want to pay for the downloads, that should be their business. But I as a customer am not even given that choice to pay for a download if we go by the model of a server having to pay to connect to another ISP. In the end the customer will pay anyway, but without net neutrality the customer will not even get the choice to pay for what they want. And that is wrong.
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@bobiroc

But an ISP is not a utility so you have to be careful when comparing them to one. In fact if you have a VOIP system like that from your cable company or Vonage it is also not considered a utility. Only old fashioned analog land lines are when it comes to phones.

I am all for getting fair compensation for services so don't get me wrong but having friends and family that work for AT&T and Comcast they all tell me that their internet is almost pure profit so it makes me wonder why they want to charge just for people that stream media. What's next, extra surcharges for online gamers or people that download a lot? Where does it end and how do they accurately monitor and bill their customers. Working in IT I know you can detect and monitor internet traffic based on it's content using things like Application Signature detection and packet detection and you can throttle using things like QOS and what not. But how to do you give that information to the customers and prove that it is accurate and what grounds can they dispute that? Like I mentioned before the Gas, Electric, and Water companies have meters that can be monitored and checked by the customers. I mean if you wanted to check your water meter if it was accurate you check the meter for its value and then take a 1 gallon pitcher and fill it with water and see if the meter moved 1 gallon right? With internet it is not that easy and what kinds of devices or software are the ISPs going to make their customers install to show their usage or are they just going to have to wait for the bill at the end of the month? It all gets very complicated especially from a service (NOT A UTILITY) that many tell me has a pretty low overhead because all they are doing is providing a pipe for the content and not responsible for creating or delivering it. I think the real reason is that services like HULU, Netflix and others that deliver movies and TV are cutting into the cable companies revenue because they can watch their shows via the internet and they lose that potential revenue. Not sure if that really justifies extra compensation to the Cable Companies or ISPs.
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@bobiroc
there is software that any user can download to their machine that will measure the in traffic and the out traffic of a system, hell I'm sure your standard router does this already. All one would have to do is measure the amount of out traffic one is generateing and cross reference that with the per Gb rate they currently have, just like you can check your own gas or electric meter.
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RE: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?
evilkillerwhale@... 13th Dec 2010
@bobiroc There IS a measurement of your download service. How do you think so many services throttle you for downloading too much?
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@bobiroc Somewhere amongst the account info users can log into is a display showing past and present usage. I looked a mine just because I was curious with my software downloads, patches, and all the rest where I stood. It was surprising because i wasn't using quite as much as i had thought.
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pay per usage; but with a twist
RedVeg 10th Dec 2010
@Michael Kelly
The only problem I would have with pay per usage is that they can charge per usage except when using thier own competing services. If the ISP is going to adopt a pay per volume for something like the internet, then it should apply equally to their own content to prevent them from anti-competetive practices.
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RE: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?
nickdangerthirdi@... 10th Dec 2010
@RedVeg i am sure you are correct that would be considered anti competitive but I really dont see it that way, its like the google anti trust suit by the EU, because google is advertising its own services ahead of others, its not that they arent advertising that service, they are just promoting their own above others, and to me thats how business works, now if that service sucks, then I can use another unimpeded, but I will pay slightly more for it. since its not a service that my provider is providing...
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Absolutely
zclayton2 Updated - 10th Dec 2010
@Michael Kelly
Spot on. Bill the people who strain the system. The ones who are downloading and using the content. A little self policing by consumers is not a bad thing. All a customer has to do to see what they are getting into is check their bandwidth usage. I certainly track it on my cell. if I needed to I have access to it on the fiber.
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@zclayton2
While I agree with your thoughts, past practice has shown that the US "companies" like to package. Included in this package is "unlimited". Yes, I am a recipient of this largess....
This makes metering difficult as I could see a mix of unlimited and limited services.
How would these be properly "measured"?
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Day time
kwabinalars 10th Dec 2010
@Michael Kelly
I think the main reason is that most homes that pay for the internet leave it off most of the time. I know that I use the internet in the evening but during the majority of the day and night my computers are all off our with me out of the house.
So, I get charged a flat rate. That flat rate is charging me a lot of time for simply having the internet and not using it.
I think this pricing scheme worked well in the past because it allowed ISPs to earn a lot without providing much more than a connection to google. That was 5 years ago. With Hulu and Netflix and a myriad of other services like it people don't just search or chat and send small packets.
Charging consumers what they use only isn't really normal for ISPs. They may need to have a mindset change.
Let's just hope they don't change their minds to price gouge my charging outrageous rates for their bandwidth.
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@kwabinalars
Can't agree.
With many systems you cannot turn the internet off.
You can not download any data for personal use but for packaged systems the internet is used by the providing company to check status, download updates, query equipment, etc.....
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RE: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?
keitha73 Updated - 13th Dec 2010
@kwabinalars Haha... like they'd ever charge for "what you use".

I remember back in the old dial-up days when I could check my usage.

But they only did that becuase I had to pay the full amount for the service, had a cap and had to pay surcharges for going over it.

Paying surcharges is NOT the same as pay-as-you-go.

The reason they will NEVER switch to pay-as-you-go is because of all the people that use thier Internet very little (and only for web-search and email) that stil get suckered into paying the flat fee.

Once ISPs have made thier initial investments in infrastructure, the overhead is very low. So providing Internet service has great profit margins. This isn't about these companies having issues controlling thier expenses, it is about them trying to bring in more revenue.

The fact that they now want to cap and or restrict certain services is simply a symptom of greed. But then again, when a company's goal is to maximize profit (as with most companies) greed is considered good.
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RE: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?
nickdangerthirdi@... 10th Dec 2010
@Michael Kelly Just curious, what would you be willing to pay per GB? or even TB possibly?
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RE: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?
Michael Kelly 14th Dec 2010
@nickdangerthirdi@...

If it went over $2/GB I would probably cut back my usage or find a better bargain. That's of course total bill, I'm figuring an average of 30 GB a month at $60 a month. If we have to have a $30 base connection fee then $1/GB. I'd take a better deal of course, but if this were the deal I would accept it.

That's about 1 GB a day for $2 a day, which is quite reasonable.
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They are not regulated like a public utility
search & destroy 10th Dec 2010
And because of that, they are not a public utility. They enjoy the benefits of a public utility but don't have to suffer any of the consequences.

ISP monopolies get to set their own prices dues to franchise exclusivity agreements and sweetheart deals with local governments. The best of both greedy worlds.
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@Michael Kelly

I do agree completely. We as users are responsible for the traffic we generate, although I would be extremly depressed to see my bill jump by double if I happen to be using a lot of bandwidth, (gaming, hulu, netflix, magicjack, etc). That being said, if my serivce provider opted to change their billing option by the per Gb and bolstered the change with advertising to lessen the blow, I would be fine with this. Verizon has software that they require to be installed initially when your DSL line is activated, if an ISP said I needed to install this software to ensure that advertisements would pop up in a side panel every couple of minutes, (assuming it doesn't steal window focus)to ensure that I got advertisements going to my computrer to lessen my bill, that's fine. There could also be an option to pay a bit more per GB and not have the software installed.
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@KBot
chuckle.....
Talk about a new ppipeline for malware etc......
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@Michael Kelly The problem I have with being charged by usage is I have no way to find out how much it costs to deliver the data to me. Increasing bandwidth sometimes is just a matter of swapping out a router.

I would pay somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 cents a gigabyte down/up with a 25 dollar 250 gigabyte monthly cap. But I am not going to pay a dollar a gig up/down. 250 Dollars a month for data isn't going to happen in my house.

25 dollars for 250 gig up/down per month = I buy it.
250 dollars for 250 gig up/down per month = fail.
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RE: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?
evilkillerwhale@... 13th Dec 2010
@mr1972
Currently, as advertised, you can get each GB of data for about 1 to 5 cents (USD). A dollar per GB would be a _HUGE_ jump.
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@Michael Kelly: I agree with you, but to clarify, all of these utilities bill to the person(s) that initiate the usage, including phone calls. Turning on the water/electricity is the same as dialing a phone number.
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Wrong and Wrong
tkejlboom 13th Dec 2010
@Michael Kelly

1. I've never paid for local calls by the call. I don't pay for nationwide calls individually on my cell.

2. Your analogy fails because the water company doesn't charge you individually for the 8" main to your neighborhood and the pipe to your house. The ISPs are playing coy to get away with double billing.
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Pay for what *you* use
mark.fulton Updated - 13th Dec 2010
My daughter just returned from 6 months in New Zealand where internet was essentially free. You pay per MB up/down-loaded. If you want to watch a lot of Netflix, ante up the bucks for the downloads. Why should I pay for your ability to watch Netflix when I don't. To be successful, ISPs need to take on more of a public utility mentaility, not only in their pricing but also their service and support model.
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Michael makes a good point. However, to implement a per unit charge, the ISPs must give up their monopolies and open their pipes to competition. What I would like to see is S. Korea, Japan, or other first world technology countries competing in my local market. I would also like to allow other ISP companies given the opportunity to build out new infrastructure in markets monopolized by Comcast, Time-Warner, and others.

Oh, and since the technology costs of providing Internet service has been dropping greatly over the last 20 years, I would like to see those savings passed on to us customers. ISPs should be lowering their fees to consumers over time, not increasing them.

It is also time to dig up all of that copper wire designed to transmit cable TV signals and recycle it.

We need to set standards for ISPs to allow them to provide service. For starters, gigabit per second to the house should be the standard for 2011. 100 gigabit per second to the house in 2012, and terabit per second to the house in 2015. If Comcast, Time Warner, and other ISPs cannot meet the standards, let them fail and invite new international competition to take their place.

ISPs have wanted to charge by the unit for as long as the Internet has existed. I can remember paying $12/hour for 1,200 baud for a CompuServe connection. Every attempt to create that kind of economic model has failed. What people want is a flat rate plan. My guess is that when we reach 100 gigabit per second connections to the home the only competition in an open market will be how little to charge for the service. With technological advances the cost to deliver the service will rapidly decrease.

One last point, there is no reason for telephone users to pay a per minute cost. Like Internet service, per minute charges are based on a false scarcity. We pay way too much for these services and the services are not adequate.
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RE: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?
evilkillerwhale@... 13th Dec 2010
@Michael Kelly

Our water, electricity and gas are all charged on a flat rate from the city. They are cheaper than all the big named services.
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RE: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?
stewymelb Updated - 13th Dec 2010
@Michael Kelly ... in Australia (and many other parts of the world) they do. The US seems reluctant to bill for usage, they prefer the bill per pipe size method, but a lot of other places have no choice. I'm guessing they don't want to change until push comes to shove.

Why does Australia do this? Because we have only a couple of high speed links out of the country, and this keeps the 'internet flowing'.

We grew up with this, and therefore it is not so much an issue. I pay AU $99 / month, get a 20mb/1mb ADSL2+ line, and get real connection of 20/1 (I live next door to the phone exchange), with a 400Gb limit. This is split 200Gb on-peak (8am-1am), and 200Gb off-peak (1am to 8am), allowing those who download extreme amounts to defer it to when the majority of users are asleep. I have yet to hit it, even with streaming movies, downloading software and all of that.

I prefer the Aussie method to any kind of port of protocol filtering. I want to be able to CHOOSE what I do with it.

I worked as a consultant to an ISP in Australia, and approx 0.5% of users download approx 95% of the content. One ISP who offered a truly unlimited plan (AAPT) was recently bought by my ISP (iiNET), and the first thing they did was can the unlimited plans. The reason was as above, as people attribute little value to something that is free, and therefore a lot abuse it.

Guess what? Get rid of these 0.5%, or make them accountable, and the other 95% benefit, and investment in infrastructure now increases due to the now profitable nature of the business, as required.

It's simple, and it will happen at some stage. If you allow companies to play with the feed in preference to limiting the usage, it can only end in woe and will ultimately be restricted anyway. Make usage accountable, and therefore more predictable, and then net neutrality won't be such an issue.
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@Michael Kelly mike, do you have an unlimited land line or cell phone contract? Or better still for this conversation do you have an unmetered cable account on your basic channels where you can watch anything you want?

the problem with video is we are working from a base where TV was delivered FREE and unlimited over the airwaves then transitioned to flat rate cable. Yes the up sell channels cost but a lot of what people watch is still delivered flat fee. Some people want to replace that model with a pay for "on demand" bandwidth model for the same content that was free when broadcast. DVRs work on that basis because hundreds of thousands of people share the same bandwidth for viewing recording the same show. ON demand has always carried a premium but there are many cable companies that "include" on demand movies as part of their basic DVR package. But the argument that all utilities BILL on a metered rate just doesn't hold the water that comes out of the meter. LOL
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RE: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?
technology@... 17th Dec 2010
@Michael Kelly I agree fully on this. Why is it that they don't just charge per use? They do on mobile networks. It is easy to track the amount of data transferred. Is it because no one wants to be the first to offer this? If they do what AT&T did and offer a cut-rate data plan with only 200 MB, that might create new customers who would then decide after a time that they want to upgrade.
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they are offering an internet connection service...
doctorSpoc Updated - 9th Dec 2010
if a person isn't paying what it cost to deliver that service then you charge them more.. it's that simple.

but they don't want to do that.. they don't want to reduce their margins by swallowing that increased cost or pass it along to their customers and potentially lose them to other providers.. so instead they seek to pass the cost onto Level3, Akamia, LimeLight and ultimately to Netflix, Apple, Google etc thereby reducing their margins... how is that in any way fair.. it's not like Level 3 et al are just transiting their network.. they are providing content that Comcast's own subscribers requested.. this is not stuff that Level3 et al are just randomly pushing through their network...

the only thing that make sense is that Comcast needs to strike a deal with it's customers.. just spread the new cost over everyone or maybe they have a $30 service but $40 if you want video streaming etc.. how every they want to do it, but the Level 3's, Akamias of the world should not even be a part of the conversation this is should be a conversation/contract between ISP and their customers.. to define what service they are getting and what it costs..
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@doctorSpoc

Having the ISP's collect from the customer changes the ISP's incentives. If they charge customers directly the ISP's incentive is to keep the pipeline small and cheap and reward low bandwidth users with small fees while directing them to the ISP's profitable services.

Taking your example of $30 without streaming and $40 with. What that charge would effectively do is increase the customers net cost for using Netflix by $10/mo. Likewise Google TV will not be "free" if the customer has to take a monthly $10 hit just to watch it. Of course the ISP's, being also cable TV providers, would love this as it would increase the barrier for customers to even try Netflix. Netflix and company could more effectively negotiate a discounted bulk transfer rate with the ISP's and fold it into the monthly subscription costs/advertising revenue. Ultimately the customer pays all the costs, it's that simple. But it adds a financial incentive to the ISP to keep the pipes wide and open if the ultimate service providers are footing the bill. You could even add financial penalties to the ISP for failing to deliver adequate bandwidth. If you leave it up the the ISP's to dictate terms to the customer they are going to choose the path that makes them the most money, which will be to penalize streaming video users heavily.
@oncall ...because they have competitors.. if they are too greedy then the subscribers will just walk and go to the next carrier.. they need to charge a fair rate. likewise if their service sucks and you can't adequately access streaming because their pipe are too small customers are not fools.. they likewise move to the next carrier.. people want access to the stuff they want access to at a fair competitive price... ISPs need to tread lightly because they can trigger a mass exodus if they are not careful.. if Level 3 et al want to cut a side deal for their customers that's up to them.. but it not be allowed to be shoved down their throats Sopranos style

what needs to be mandated is that ISP's throttling activities etc should be required to be completely transparent, so their customers know what they are getting.. this way ISPs can't artificially degrade certain services to bolster their own services.. because they really do have a MAJOR conflict of interest..

the point remains though... carriers sell and "Internet Connection".. THEIR customers are requesting streamed filed through that service, if the cost of servicing those request through that service is not adequate then they should charge more..
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RE: Will Netflix destroy the Internet?
nickdangerthirdi@... 10th Dec 2010
@oncall i have to go with spoc on this, I see your point, but I dont think it would work that way, I am going to go with the company that provides the biggest bang for the buck, if I dont like a service, I dont keep using it, i move, just like with ATT, their service is crappy and I hate my iphone, so when my contract expires, I will get an evo and move to sprint.
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@doctorSpoc
What competitors?
My prior abode, for cable I had one choice - COX. I had one choice for phone - Qwest. My choice was none.

Even now, living in Los Angeles, for my area I have one choice for cable - TW. I have one choice for phone - ATT.

For a lot of folks, choice boils down to either subscribe or do without.
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Think of it like shipping packages
oncall Updated - 9th Dec 2010
@doctorSpoc

As a service provider. Do you really want the shipping company negotiating directly with your customers how much it will cost to ship an individual package or would you much rather negotiate a bulk deal? Amazon negotiates great shipping rates for their customers. Yes, the customers ultimately pay the costs themselves but there is no way they would get as good a deal if they had to negotiate with UPS individually.

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