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madison

Shut down the patent office?

By | March 9, 2010, 9:14am PST

Summary: Last week, I took Apple to task for launching the patent nukes against HTC. This week, I try to explain why patents are so corrosive within a software development context.

Last week, I pulled out the verbal bazooka to fire a well-deserved blast in Apple’s direction for their patent malfeasance. By “malfeasance,” I don’t mean that Apple is technically breaking any laws. Rather, I have no patience for companies that use idea ownership in an aggressive fashion, even as I remain confident that it will blow up horribly in their face when they realize that waging patent war is a bit like the European powers thinking they could conquer each other in 1914. As I said last week, Apple makes a bad patent troll, as they make a lot of products, and their competitors have big stacks of patents of their own.

But, a lot of the people in the Talkbacks clearly had no idea what I was talking about. What am I, a communist? What do I have against intellectual property? If making illegal copies of music CDs is wrong, why isn’t it wrong, say, for the Android to use a little graphical widget to “unlock” access to the phone (which is one of the 20 patents Apple is using against Google…er, HTC).

Making copies of music CDs and copying a concept are COMPLETELY different. Copyright, which covers the wholesale copying of CDs, books, movies and other sources of content AS CREATED by an individual or group, is completely different than, say, ownership of all uses of a special field where the inputed characters is hidden from view as you type, and is used to grant access to some kind of system or service (a password field). Don’t worry, nobody owns a patent on the password field, but someone COULD have, and that’s the problem. The point I was making last week is that nobody SHOULD own ideas and concepts like that, and I get very annoyed with those people (a.k.a. “fanboys”) whose principles shift according to whether the wind fills the sails of their favored company and / or product.

If someone were to make copies of Apple software and distribute them without Apple’s consent, I would go after such a company in my blog. Apple CREATED that code, just as J.K. Rowling created a series of books based around a boy wizard named Harry Potter. What makes me seethe with developer rage is when Apple claims to own certain concepts in that code which nobody has a right to claim to own.

The reason ownership of ideas is so corrosive to innovation is not hard to discern, though the complexity in this case is that most people are not programmers, and thus are unlikely to understand why ownership of the concepts underlying movable widgets on a screen is so destructive. Think of it this way. J.K. Rowling should be defended against people who would copy her book wholesale and make discounted copies to sell on street corners. That’s flat-out theft, and allowing people to do that would undermine the incentive to create artistic expression in the first place.

What she should not be allowed to do, however, is prevent people from writing about boy wizards forced to live among non-magical humans and chased by evil forces who want to kill him. The protections in the previous paragraph secure Ms. Rowling’s right to the words she actually wrote. In contrast, owning the concept of young wizards going through puberty is something that no patent office would protect, because most people understand that it is silly to presume that someone can own a narrative.

Concepts or storylines are no different, conceptually, than patents on software algorithms or “busines processes” (the latter of which is what allowed Amazon to prevent Barnes & Noble from creating a “one-click” payment system).

If concepts or storylines were patentable, we would have no Daffy Duck (aaiiigh, everyone run screaming from the room at the very thought of such horror). Daffy Duck was clearly a response by Warner Bros to the popularity of a certain pale Disney duck with anger issues and an allergy for wearing pants. Granted, Warner Brothers’ creation had better diction, but the similarities are so obvious as to be hard to ignore. Fortunately for Warner Brothers (and cartoon lovers everywhere), Disney isn’t allowed to own the concept of angry animated water fowl.

Ideas are like pieces in a very large puzzle. If one person claims to own any of the pieces, then NOBODY can complete the puzzle. Right now, software companies around the world own so many patents that, if they were all to be leveraged at once to generate maximum revenue, none of the software in existence would remain untouched. That applies to “closed source” software as much as the open variety, because patents are so numerous and difficult to grok that most programmers will stumble across several in the course of a single project without even realizing it.

That is a problem, because ideas are the stone blocks in the pyramid of ideas. Ownership of any one block jeopardizes the blocks higher up, making those improvements that much less likely to be developed in the first place.

Granted, the patent effect may vary. It was possible to work around the LZW patent that underlay the GIF image format, an algorithm that Unisys sat upon until GIF found sudden popularity in a rapidly growing Internet. It’s a lot harder to work around Patent #6,424,354, which would claim that Apple owns the concept of event generating objects triggering user interface components on screen. An argument could be made that the common MVC design pattern runs afoul of this.

As the title of this post would suggest, I’ve started to wonder whether there is any real point in having a patent system at all (well, started is the wrong word, as I’ve asked this question many times before). Do patents serve a useful purpose, or are they just an anachronism, a vestige of a time when governments granted monopoly rights over entire industries?

One argument made in favor of patents is that it serves as an IP stake in the ground that gives Venture Capital firms the confidence to invest in new startups. But would Venture Capital firms really not invest in startups because there was no patent system in place? The artificial confidence bred by something as difficult to defend as a patent is a distraction. Far more important is the drive and experience of the management team and the insight and intelligence of the guys actually making and designing the products. Granted, those are hard things to gauge, but imaginary walls aren’t any more secure, and the skills of the people involved need to be gauged, anyway. Focusing on what matters would probably lead to better startups, anyway.

Another argument is that patents enable companies to spend money on expensive research safe in the knowledge that they will get a return on their investment due to the 20 year monopoly rights they have over the result. The example most used is the pharmaceutical industry, where bringing a product to market can cost in the billions (the notion that software companies would spend billions developing a sliding unlock icon is ludicrous, so it doesn’t merit inclusion).

However, I don’t know that the pharmaceutical industry is a pillar of productivity that justifies the creation of a system of state-created time-limited monopoly. First, some parts of that “bringing to market” process is unnecessarily expensive and slow. The approval process for a new drug can take many, many years, a process that resists streamlining because the drug companies make enough money to afford it, and probably don’t want it streamlined as it would lead to more competition. Likewise, a big part of bringing a product to market is marketing it, and the largest component of that, at least in the United States, are the incessant TV ads with which Americans are bombarded on television. Polls show that Americans know the names of more drugs and drug companies than people who live anywhere else.

I’m also not convinced that the drug companies really add the value that they claim they do. A common complaint is that drug companies rarely create drugs that FIX problems, so much as drugs that TREAT symptoms. From an economic incentives standpoint, that shouldn’t surprise anyone, as actually fixing a problem would lead to a very short shelf life for a new drug. The patent system is also a real hindrance to the developing world, as patents give drug companies the right to charge prices that no AIDS patient in Zimbabwe could afford in an entire lifetime.

My point is that monopoly rights on drugs haven’t had tremendous results. A different system IS possible, perhaps with R&D funded by other sources with more of an interest in permanent cures than ongoing revenue streams.

But, patents are a fact of capitalism, and to get rid of them is like moving down the slippery slope towards communism, right? Really? Monopoly rights are an essential component of capitalism? Contrary to popular belief, capitalism isn’t a system of spontaneous organization. It consists of a set of laws whose only unifying thread is that they have results that benefit people from an economic standpoint. To make a very geeky comparison, it’s a bit like thinking what a parallel universe with a slightly different set of physical laws might look like. Some universes, ours included, produce black holes and suns that produce heavy elements and live for a sufficiently long period as to be conducive to the development of life. Others are dark, lifeless voids which lack the ability to create anything beyond helium. Economic systems are frameworks, in other words, that are either tuned well or badly.

Copyright periods should only be as long as necessary to provide a return on investment and incentive to create. Patents, a purely artificial and state-created notion, should only exist if they truly provide value to society. I’m proposing here that they add little in the way of value.

A number of people pointed out in my previous post that Apple was the subject of lawsuits by companies as diverse as Nokia and Kodak (as if that justified Apple’s actions; kids, the next time a bully hits you in the hallway, spit in the face of the smaller kid that sits behind you). Well, without patents, Apple wouldn’t have faced these kinds of attacks.

Is Apple acting within the law? Yes, but then again, so were the bankers that farmed off securities containing a mix of normal and toxic assets, thus hiding the sub-prime contagion and inflating the real estate bubble which popped so catastrophically a few years ago. I think the problem we have in this country is that we think the limit of ethics and morality is whatever we can get away with legally. That puts a heck of a lot of stress on lawmakers, who as long as they are human, will make imperfect laws.

I know this will piss of a lot of Apple fans, but Microsoft owns a heck of a lot more patents than Apple does (and certainly than Google, which as this chart shows, may be somewhat exposed from a patent defense standpoint). When was the last time Microsoft went on a patent jihad against a close competitor? Patent innuendo war…maybe, though I discuss that in this 2007 post.

There would be a lot of resistance to an eradication of the patent system, particularly from the large companies that are its biggest beneficiaries (patents are like weedkiller…they keep smaller competitors at bay). But, after the patent trench warfare that is likely to occur as software companies scramble to secure territory in a key platform of the future, perhaps more will realize that the patent process is an expensive waste of money. It serves no purpose but to enrich a bunch of lawyers.

It should be stopped, or at least dramatically reformed. And hell yes, I will attack viciously any company that uses those patents aggressively. It was wrong for Nokia to sue Apple. It is also wrong for Apple to sue HTC. It’s pure patent-related predation.

Apple is trying to block innovation in the space by hobbling other companies ability to tap into the normal flow of ideas that makes software development such a dynamic industry to work in. That would be criminal in a rational universe. The fact it isn’t in this one doesn’t make it any less wrong.

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John Carroll has delivered his opinion on ZDNet since the last millennium. Since May 2008, he is no longer a Microsoft employee. He is currently working at a unified messaging-related startup.

Disclosure

John Carroll

http://blogs.zdnet.com/carroll/?p=1412

Biography

John Carroll

John Carroll has programmed in a wide variety of computing domains, including servers, client PCs, mobile phones and even mainframes. His current specialties are C#, .NET, Java, WIN32/COM and C++, and he has applied those skills in everything from distributed web-based systems to embedded devices. In his spare time, he enjoys the world of digital video, and served as director of photography and editor on a feature-length film produced in Limerick, Ireland, as well as a low-budget production filmed in Los Angeles that used Panavision digital cameras (the same ones used by George Lucas in the later Star Wars episodes).

John worked in Microsoft's Mediaroom division from May, 2005 to May, 2008. He is co-founder of ForgetMeNot Software, a creator of unified messaging software targeted at telecommunications providers, where he currently works as Director of Technology.

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djmcfar 23rd Jul 2010
The big companies patent many ideas for things that they have no intention of implementing (as well as for things which they will actually produce), strictly to enable them later to go after any other company that may implement the idea. Kind of like the folks who registered URLs using the names of well known companies when the internet first went public (I have no problem with the URL thing LOL). Squashing competition is what it is all about. I agree with the author - something needs to change.
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Excellent point.
brettlyian@... 9th Mar 2010
...
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Agreed
DonRupertBitByte 9th Mar 2010
The USPTO is the problem here.
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So are companies that abuse it
Rob Oakes 9th Mar 2010
The USPTO isn't the only problem, so are the companies that deliberately abuse it. Microsoft has been slammed, hated and reviled for *threatening* patent war (for good reason).

Companies who actually use IP to shut down competition are loathesome without compare. Evil isn't nearly a strong enough word for it. And in the case of Apple, many of whose patents are based on prior art from other researchers and companies (this is a nice way of saying they stole them), it is the antithesis of everything that they supposedely stand for.

I utterly despise Apple for what they've become, and I used to be as rabid a fanboy as existed.
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Agreed, but...
DonRupertBitByte 9th Mar 2010
If the USPTO could be corrected, that would take care of many other problems as well.
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And in the case of Apple, many of whose patents are based on prior
art from other researchers and companies (this is a nice way of saying
they stole them),

No, it is a nice way of illustrating that you are speaking garbage.

Patents always reference prior art, they are meant to.

A patent is a document describing the difference between what is
being invented and what existed before, to do that it must refer to the
state of the art before the invention.

The only part being patented is the difference. The prior art is not
covered by the patent, that is why it is there.

Also required in a patent is enough detail to make implementation of
the idea possible to a person with only basic knowledge of the area of
endeavour. This need requires technology other than the part being
protected from being referenced.

I suggest you talk to an expert before accusing people of theft.

They might explain to you what the Claims section is about. Claim 1 is
basically the patent, the other claims usually fall into the context of
claim 1, the rest of the document is supporting explanation.

And by the way anything in prior art is not patentable, the theft does
not exist.

If prior art showing the technology is found to have been published,
then the patent will not hold up.

What you are alleging is just ridiculous, but then you are not the only
one to have made this claim on these blogs.

it is the antithesis of everything that they supposedely stand for.

No it is a sign of your ignorance not preventing your commenting.

I utterly despise Apple for what they've become, and I used to be as
rabid a fanboy as existed.

Yeah, tell us another one!!!!

If you were you should rethink your attitude, as becoming an enemy
because of your ignorance is not very wise is it?

But then I don't suggest becoming a rabid fanboy, just become a
satisfied user, like a normal Apple customer.

Leave the rabid fanboy stuff to the Windows people, they need it.
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RE: Shut down the patent office?
rossdav@... 9th Mar 2010
Here here!!
Way to go for taking such a controversial stance, John!
I completely agree.
It serves no purpose except to stifle innovation and make lawyers rich.
Thanks for posting this! How do we make it happen????
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RE: Shut down the patent office?
tbensen@... 9th Mar 2010
Is there such thing as a good lawyer?
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Not the lawyers
Rob Oakes 9th Mar 2010
It isn't the lawyers that are the problem, but rather the business and corrupt politicians who employ their services.
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True
tbensen@... 9th Mar 2010
I agree, but I am also wondering if there is such
a thing as a good lawyer. They could not get
involved in these sort of ridiculous lawsuits, but
alas they do b/c of the almighty dollar. Who
cares about ethics or morality when you get loads
of cash, right?
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Agreed
Rob Oakes 9th Mar 2010
And I just realized, there are many top executives and evil politicians who happen to be lawyers by training. Maybe my theory doesn't hold water.
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You are preaching to the choir
P. Douglas Updated - 9th Mar 2010
As far as I'm concerned, the constitution should be amended to say that ideas can never be protected - only their implementations. Regarding software patents, unless a company challenges it all the way to the Supreme Court, I don't think anything is going to change. I even think that MS is playing a dangerous game supporting patents, because odds are that sooner or later, dangerous ones will get through to it, costing the company billions of dollars. Absolutely no developer can write an application today without infringing on several patents. And if every patent was rigorously enforced, they would all shut down the software industry.

As for patents in bio tech. I think they contribute a great deal to the monstrous prices of drugs - and thwart competition. I believe if patents were generally gotten rid of, the world economies would overall improve. Complex, valuable inventions in bio-tech and other industries, could be protected by other mechanisms such as Trade Secrets and anti-reverse engineering laws. Of course software and other IP could remain protected under copyright law.

There are many IP protection mechanisms that work well. I believe getting rid of patents, and relying on other IP protection systems would do world economies a lot of good.
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The problem
jragosta 9th Mar 2010
@P. Douglas:
"As far as I'm concerned, the constitution should be amended to say
that ideas can never be protected - only their implementations."

The real problem is people babbling about things they don't
understand in blogs like this.

NO intellectual property law protects ideas. Copyrights, trademarks,
and patent law are ALL about protecting implementations.

For example, take Apple's 'swipe to unlock' patent. The idea is that
you have a phone that locks itself and you need to unlock it some
way. That idea is not protectible.

There are a zillion ways you might unlock a phone:
- swipe to unlock
- push a physical button
- slide a physical switch
- shake the phone
- touch a specific place on the screen
- touch a sensor with your tongue
- and an infinite number more.

Apple chose to develop one specific method (or implementation, if you
will) of unlocking a phone - swipe to unlock. They did NOT patent the
idea of unlocking a phone.

So, your own definition fully supports what Apple did.

95% of the posts here (and most of the bloggers on ZDNet) are
similarly misguided.
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Ideas vs. Implementations
P. Douglas Updated - 9th Mar 2010
It is true that unlocking a phone may be considered an idea; but it is also true that the action 'swipe to lock' can also be considered an idea, because it is a mental conception of something. An implementation of an idea requires the production of something - such as a physical object, code, or an artistic rendering. Therefore if you can conceive of something in your mind (e.g. 'swipe to lock') it is merely an idea. It is only when you produce something that captures your idea, that you have an implementation of your idea. As John Carroll and others have suggested, it is reasonable to protect specific work expended to implement an idea such as 'swipe to lock', but the idea or mental conception of 'swipe to lock' should itself never be protected.
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It's also true that...
msalzberg Updated - 10th Mar 2010
rolling a little ball in an enclosure is an idea, therefore the patents
(and there are many) on the mouse are invalid.
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Superb article! Five Stars!
WinTard 9th Mar 2010
I applaud your chutzpah for daring to state the obvious, yet not fearing being reprimanded by an army of narrow-minded zealots.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Courage is knowing what not to fear.
~ Plato
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How much is invested in a patent
none none 9th Mar 2010
I'm only picking on Microsoft because I've heard it state that it's goal is 3000 patents a year. That's more than eight patents a day, every day.

The question was asked how much is invested in a software patent?

If MS was granted 3000 patents last year and spent all it's revenues on patents, I figure each patent cost an average of ~$17M.

If a quarter of MS's revenues is spent on R&D each patent cost an average of ~$4M.

If half of MS's R&D budget is spent on acquiring patents, the average cost is ~$2M per patent. Minus the costs of lawyering the patent through the process.

Does anyone think MS spends $16M-$17M per day on acquiring patents? Seems about right.

Lots of assumptions, I agree. Just thought I'd throw it out there.








happy
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Yes, lots of assumptions.
Lester Young 9th Mar 2010
Silly ones. For starters, patents are not the sole driver of R&D. Considering that, the whole exercise breaks down.
Yeah, well...

Instead of conjectures consider these facts:

[quote name='WinTard' date='09 March 2010 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1268161246' post='329561']
http://forums.pcworld.com/index.php?/topic/80574-microsoft-researcher-wins-turing-award/page__p__329561&#entry329561
I think it is a great honor to be a Microsoft Fellow. Kudos to Charles P Thacker for the ACM Turing Award!

Google: Results 1 - 10 of about 529,000 for microsoft fellows. (0.30 seconds)
Microsoft Technical Fellows: Recognized technical leaders in the ...
A Technical Fellow's technical vision, expertise and world-class leadership is commensurate with that of a corporate vice president focused on business ...
www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/techfellow/default.mspx



Also the likes of David Cutler, and Mark Russinovich...

Giants in the IT field IMHO.

I found out about this award on Dr Dobb's Journal here: http://www.drdobbs.c...ndows/223300024 it's a bit more detailed.

Interesting fellows they have at Microsoft don't you think?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Live a good, honorable life. Then when you get older and think back, you'll be able to enjoy it a second time.
~ Dalai Lama



Now that is True Research & Development. True innovation. Don't know what I'm talking about?

Google: http://www.google.com/search?q=ACM+Turing+award
Results 1 - 10 of about 435,000 for ACM Turing award. (0.39 seconds)

Who need patents? No seriously?
You did perchance notice that your facts had nothing to do with his conjecture, and hence was about as useful as knowing it rained today in England, and for that matter other places too.

Well, if you were in the right place, knowing it was raining might have been some help.
I understand HTC is trying to show they have been inventive by putting
out a history of their developments.

The logic I gather is to say Apple has no right to defend their IP, as
HTC has developed other technology so they have a right to pinch
Apple's work.

I think this is an extension of that PR campaign, and it relies on some
twisted logic.

I should apply it to them, I have IP Protection granted because I have
innovated. I now have the right to rip off HTC and MS apparently.
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Thanks for the article.
Lester Young 9th Mar 2010
It lays out all the issues clearly in a manner that is agnostic regarding all the players in (or potentially in) the Apple/HTC situation.

Malfeasance = breaking the law in discharge of duties.

Misfeasance = dereliction of duty, gross negligence, or unethical behavior while not crossing the legal boundary of malfeasance.
Well done John. It's about time someone called it for what it is.

BULLYING

The US patent system is a joke, looking from the outside in. Anything that can be done in your country to sort out the USPTO would reap benefits far outside your country.

As for Apple, I don't wish to comment. That company (and to a greater extent their supreme leader!) are pure filth and don't deserve the exposure they get.

You couldn't pay me to own their cr*p.
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RE: Shut down the patent office?
CycleNinja 9th Mar 2010
"...because ideas are the stone blocks in the pyramid of ideas."

This strikes me as a redundancy. Otherwise, outstanding article.
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No, just enforce the rules/laws.
No_Ax_to_Grind 9th Mar 2010
Specifically the wording about "obvious". For a second, pretend that all computers were still command line and suddenly someone came out with a graphical interface. It would be "OBVIOUSLY" better or different and should be awarded a patent where finding a different way to move images on that interface is not.
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RE: Shut down the patent office?
hayneiii@... 9th Mar 2010
There have been many ideas that have been patented. I am a chemist and I can tell of of a number of idea patents. The concept of using ultra filtration to purify rinse water in electro-deposition tanks is one I am familiar with. It was not a patent on how to use the ultra filtration, but the idea of it. I know that this patent created a cottage industry of innovation on how to circumvent this. Apple enforcing its patents will increase innovation, not decrease it.
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There is no merit to an idea, unless turned into reality. At which point it is not an idea anymore, but a product or process or method.

As a matter of fact or reality, you CANNOT patent software in the EU.

Google:
http://www.google.com/search?q=eu+no+software+patent
Results 1 - 10 of about 1,540,000 for eu no software patent. (0.44 seconds)

Why should it be different in America? To stop progress? And hoard profits?

Like paying the troll at the bridge? He doesn't own the bridge, but you can't go through without paying? ? ?
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But
John Carroll 9th Mar 2010
...would people not want to find ways to do the same thing more efficiently anyway? Is not that part of the process by which companies try to attract new customers?

I don't see how patents have added much in that scenario. If you are FIRST to make a new concept that does something new, you will make money in the near term. In the long term, you might face clones, but so what? Will that make you not want to develop the concept the ultra-filtration concept in the first place?

All the patent does is give you a 20-year guaranteed revenue stream from OLD technology. How does that help society or move science forward? If it doesn't, what is the point of that restriction?
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The point of the restriction is two-fold
RationalGuy 9th Mar 2010
In the long term, you might face clones, but so what? Will that make you not
want to develop the concept the ultra-filtration concept in the first place?


Yes, it will make you not want to develop the concept. What is the point of
innovating if you have no protection, and your competitors can swoop in and copy
your stuff without paying the R&D that you did. If there was no protection, why
would you embark on any such expensive endeavor? To fulfill your burning desire
to push the edge of water filtration, and take your place among the greats?

Would people not want to find ways to do the same thing more efficiently
anyway?


No, because they already would have the advantage. They don't have to get an ROI
on the R&D costs that you incurred. They could copy your idea and be ahead of
you.

All the patent does is give you a 20-year guaranteed revenue stream from OLD
technology. How does that help society or move science forward? If it doesn't,
what is the point of that restriction?


1.) It provides protection for inventors to keep a business advantage over their
competition. This includes a structure to allow inventors, if they so wish, to license
their technology to manufacturers to get paid for their inventions, and increase the
overall market for the technology. Apple can license their patents to HTC and still
be assured that their interests are protected.

2.) Licensing fees (or guarded exclusivity) provides an incentive for other inventors
to beat them at their own game. Because Apple invents something and patents it,
doesn't mean there isn't a better or cheaper or whatever-other-desirable-
adjective-you-may-be-looking-for way of doing things. HTC can create other
better ways to do the same thing. This tends to remove the competitive advantage
seen in point #1, thus forcing the cycle to repeat.

The two points feedback on one other, and the outcome is always more innovation.
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Doing the same thing in new ways
People 9th Mar 2010
requires one to come up with a new idea.
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Gross oversimplification
richardw66 Updated - 25th Mar 2010
I think that patents are a double edged sword.

I hate what drug companies do with patents, and yet I think they may
be necessary.

...would people not want to find ways to do the same thing more
efficiently anyway? Is not that part of the process by which companies
try to attract new customers?


Yes, and they are entitled to file a patent on the difference between
their current method and an existing patent.

let's say you invented a new gear-tooth shape by years of research,
then you spend a fortune perfecting the exact tooth curve, this whole
thing reduces friction and increases torque transfer, lengthening life
and reducing energy consumption.

Now you don't patent it because you don't believe in patents, and
after all gears are nothing new are they? And it is just a new shape.

You sell your first gear, the next day someone scans it in, CNC routes
another one, then more, then goes to market selling millions of them,
they have not had your costs in development, so they are cheaper.

So they get most of the market, your work gets you debt to cover the
R&D.

But the world is somehow a better place?

And your competitor releases the same gear in a different alloy, so
they claim they are more innovative than you were. You had not
released that alloy to market yet, but it was in testing. The alloy is not
yours or theirs anyway.

By not patenting, how exactly has the world been improved?

How is the company that copies your work better than you?

Why are they entitled to do this?

And why is the pieces of a tool for transferring data between a user
and a computer any different to pieces of a machine to transfer torque
from one machine to another? Both are inventions, both are important,
why if I invent one of these should I feel happy if someone just copies
my work freely? Why should the law not protect me so I can eat after
all the effort I put in?

OK a company such as Apple is not an individual, but it pays the
people who do the work, and yes it has heaps of cash already, but got
there by operating under patent law. (and No - it didn't steal the
mouse from Xerox, before someone raises that)

All the patent does is give you a 20-year guaranteed revenue
stream from OLD technology. How does that help society or move
science forward? If it doesn't, what is the point of that restriction?


No - it doesn't guarantee revenue from old technology, it may provide
you with revenue from use of your ideas and technology, the market
can and will move on.

Is Apple acting within the law? Yes, but then again, so were the
bankers that farmed off securities containing a mix of normal and
toxic assets, thus hiding the sub-prime contagion and inflating the
real estate bubble which popped so catastrophically a few years
ago.


The bankers set out to misrepresent risky investments as safe, a few
people used deception to rip off many people. This was not in the
spirit of any law, nor the intent of any law, and the bankers concerned
had only found new ways to defraud people, maybe skirting the law to
do so.

Your use of this as a metaphor is ludicrous and manipulative, I could claim that you are
writing this blog on the internet, just like Holocaust deniers and racists are using the
internet, would it be at all fair to draw that connection? It's just as valid!

Apple seeks to use the protection of the patent act to give it the
advantages that the patent law was designed to provide, which is to
make innovation profitable.

In the old world the ability to manufacture was some barrier to
copying of people's hard work, and even then patents were necessary
to allow return on R&D.

In the new world, it is largely ideas that are innovative, and there is no
manufacturing component involved, now patents are more necessary
than ever.

Do patents limit someone selling a product based on parts of another
product, yes - that is why they are necessary.

If there was a world where the costs of R&D were not so high, and the
return could be guaranteed for the R&D work without IP protection,
then they would be a bad idea, I wish that world existed.

I also do have doubts about the effect of patents in some areas,
especially gene patents. I do feel somewhat limited by the existence of
some patents.

I also know that I would have been seriously ripped off without both
Patent law and Copyright law, and yes someone tried to do so, they
were a Multi-national company so without IP law I would have been in
trouble.

The IP laws do protect the big from the small, and the small from the
big.
0 Votes
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Here here!
People 9th Mar 2010
.
0 Votes
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RE: Shut down the patent office?
dhalling 9th Mar 2010
John,

You statement "concepts or storylines are no
different, conceptually, than patents on software
algorithms or ?business processes? (the latter of
which is what allowed Amazon to prevent Barnes & Noble
from creating a ?one-click? payment system)" is
completely wrong. Storylines are broad concept of how
a story can be written. A patent is for an invention
that is directed to a specific process or machine.
Your example of the one click patent is instructive.
That patent covered a computer process for allowing a
user to not have to reenter their personal and credit
card information. This was a specific computer(s)
process with an objective outcome. In addition the
one click system reduced the risk that someone could
steal the customer personal and credit card
information, since it did not have to be transmitted.
Barnes and Noble's Express Lane (one click shopping
system) was evidently successful, since a large
percentage of their customers had chosen to utilize
the Express Lane rather than the shopping basket.

The sad and ironic component to the one click
controversy is that it is easy to design around the
claims of the one click patent. Design around means
to invent an alternative to a patented invention that
does not infringe the patent?s claims. In this case,
all Barnes and Noble or any other online retailer had
to do to design around the claims of the one click
patent was have a two click ordering system. However,
few of the critics of Amazon.com and the one click
patent mentioned this simple solution. Nor was there
any complaint that Barnes and Noble was essentially
too lazy to spend the time and effort to come up with
this simple design around solution. One of the
functions the patent system promotes is alternative
designs to problems by creating an economic incentive
to create alternative designs.

Your suggestion that the patent system inhibits
innovation is completely without foundation. Those
countries with the strongest patent laws have the
fastest rates of innovation and diffusion of
innovation. Those countries with weak or non-existent
patent laws have the weakest patent laws. Before
patent laws became widespread in the western world,
the rate of innovation was slow enough that the per
capita income of the west had not changed in
centuries. Note that many of the other conditions of
a free market, such as low taxes, property rights, etc
existed for centuries before per capita income started
to increase in Europe.

Dale B. Halling, Author of the ?Decline and Fall of
the American Entrepreneur: How Little Known Laws and
Regulations are Killing Innovation.?
http://www.amazon.com/Decline-Fall-American-
Entrepreneur-Regulations/dp/1439261369/ref=sr_1_1?
ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262124667&sr=8-1
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The fallacy
John Carroll 9th Mar 2010
Most western nations have fairly strict labor laws, and I don't know that that helps their economies very much. Most nations are also involved in a war against drugs, a war that wastes billions and outsources the problem to poor nations. That isn't very sensible economically, either.

You seem to be saying that because most rich nations have patent laws, that means that they MUST be a component of a successful economy. Therein lies the fallacy. By that standard, even the stupid things we all do would be the mark of a strong and rational approach to markets.

But you are wrong to think that ALL rich nations have the same patent laws we do. We stand practically alone in our willingness to patent algorithms and business processes. My argument has always been that, at the very least, that is a very bad idea. The ideas you patent in software don't take billions to develop, and creates a situation where it is simply a race to see who patents first.

That's not sensible economic policy, even if it is practiced by wealthy nations. It can be said that wealthy nations tend to have the rules tuned better than those who are less wealthy. It doesn't, however, assume we have tuned them to perfection.

In this case, all Barnes and Noble or any other online retailer had to do to design around the claims of the one click patent was have a two click ordering system.

Yes, but that is stunningly ridiculous. Why should someone have the right to OWN a one-click payment process? I'm sorry, Amazon did not sit around spending billions to come up with the brilliant innovation that is one click payment processing.

Since they didn't, what is the point of giving them that 20-year monopoly right?

Those kinds of simple innovations (like movable unlock widgets, like event generating graphical objects) have NO BUSINESS being patented by anybody. Yes, we are rich and successful. However, patenting those kinds of ideas SLOWS innovation. They don't add anything to economic efficiency.

You don't need patents for people to want to figure out new ways to do things. That happens on its own, and it comes from the desire of companies to find ways to attract customers.
0 Votes
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wrong
frankenstone 9th Mar 2010
Big corps churn out hundreds of BS patents a year in the hopes that some will stick, and software patents are the silliest. The cotton gin is a patent. Multitouch? gestures?? I'm flipping Mr Jobs the bird right now, will he sue me for that gesture?

Also I find your attempt to correlate of the rate of innovation in the western world and the per capita income with the implementation of patent laws, to be misguided.
0 Votes
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I have not read his book
oncall Updated - 10th Mar 2010
He may be oversimplifying things, at least here. But IMHO it's hard to argue against the premise that businesses are attracted to countries/states with favorable tax and law structures. We see this every day even within the United States, where states that find it politically correct to "bleed" big business for whatever reason are slowly bled of jobs (and it's corresponding tax base) as the companies move to tax favorable locations.

Some thing simply cannot be compensated for, such as extreme differences in labor costs that forced manufacturing to move overseas. But you watch, if America actually did anything reckless with laws protecting one of the few industries it has left, those companies would look elsewhere. Of course I am trying not to make assumptions, maybe some of the discussants here are really from countries salivating at the opportunity to see America slit it's own economic throat.
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Who decides what is obvious?
CowLauncher 9th Mar 2010
As No Ax pointed out the first GUI should be patentable,
but that didn't happen when Microsoft copied the
Macintosh UI did it.

It may depend on your point of view. Sure the way the
iPhone works seems obvious now, but not until Apple
made it. This is the brilliance of the thing...make it seem
like there was never any other way.

So brilliant in fact that others see no way to compete other
than by copying it. I would say that Apple has a case.
0 Votes
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People shouldn't have to decide that
John Carroll Updated - 9th Mar 2010
Let's assume for the moment that the iPhone was the first instance ever to use a touch-screen user interface (it wasn't). Why on earth does that give the first mover the right to freeze innovation for 20 years?

This is the problem. So long as Apple is allowed to "own" multitouch (which they are clearly trying to do), nobody can move beyond the concept. It is a firewall that last 20 long years, an eternity in Internet time.

But, of course, the multitouch interfaces were NOT invented by Apple, any more than movable widgets on a screen used to unlock a phone is something worth protecting for 20 years.

Being first mover has huge rewards. Apple has more applications than any other smartphone platform (well, Nokia has more, but they are fragmented as hell). They did that by packaging lots of good ideas, MOST OF WHICH they did not create themselves.

That's the nature of innovation and software development. Most of the ideas we put into our code comes from the body of thought that drives the evolution of the software art.

It seems to me that Apple just needs to commit itself to continuing to dream up good ideas. That benefits society a heck of a lot more than using legal tools to create a litigation moat around your products so you don't have to work quite so hard to rake in the dough.

But, hey, if you think its good for Apple to sue the heck out of competitors, just wait until they have to go up against Microsoft. Microsoft has more patents than Apple by several lightyears (unlike HTC or Google, who I guess they feel they can bully).

It's a dangerous game they are playing.
0 Votes
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Patents are not the issue
norgate 9th Mar 2010
Let's be honest here. If true "novelty" in the marketplace is capable of
being protected, then we move from an abundance of cookie cutter
knockoffs to real innovation and real competition.

There were years of handsets prior to iPhone. None of them were
good enough. Apple's suit will likely seek to address the patent
infringements in aggregate, to show a willful attempt to parrot the
device. They gave these vendors a stern warning when the iPhone was
released. Jobs stood on stage and said to the public at large, that the
device was patented to the hilt and they were prepared to protect it.
They gave a second warning recently as infringing devices hit the
market. The patents are the last thing being trucked out, and are
almost beside the point, they are just the legal vehicle du jour. The
issue is turf. Apple earned it.

So patents are terrible, but thank heaven Microsoft has them to beat
Apple with? They will have deserved it for being a patent bully? A
bigger bully than Nokia that has done the same thing with Apple?
Apple needs to dream up new ideas, but everyone else can wait and
steal it? It's a double standard. You can't speak seriously of the poor
victims of frozen innovation, when they are a Taiwanese knockoff
artist and a monopolist. No ethical high ground here. There was no
innovation pre iPhone, there is no innovation by any of them post
iPhone either. Without the iPhone we'd be using the same button
encrusted transformer toys from 2001. Talk about the potential for
innovation all you want. Tell us it needs to be nurtured and cultivated
and we'll all agree and smile. Just don't try to set your egalitarian
freedoms against a cool phone in an open market, folks will pick the
phone. Microsoft HTC and every other developer worth their salt need
to take the advice you give Apple. Work on the next novel thing that
meets human needs. Move on.

Ideas are all we ever have. The notion of property itself is an
abstraction. We own ideas because it is all we can own. Property will
be protected by those who understand, at the end of the day, all
property is intellectual property.
0 Votes
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Live by the sword...
John Carroll Updated - 9th Mar 2010
So patents are terrible, but thank heaven Microsoft has them to beat Apple with?

You live by the sword, you die by it. I'm 110% positive Microsoft could trot out 100 patents (at least) that are violated by the iPhone. That's the stupidity of patents. EVERYONE stumbles across them.

Microsoft isn't the one doing the suing, Apple is.

Apple needs to dream up new ideas, but everyone else can wait and steal it?

This is what drives me nuts. So, Apple reorganizes things and adds its 0.003% new ideas, ignoring the fact that 99.997% is built on ideas that DID NOT COME FROM APPLE. That is the nature of innovation. It builds on what went before, and improves it.

No doubt about it, iPhone was an improvement. Apple, however, did not invent multitouch screens, or a UI based around icons, or a centralized app store. They also didn't invent the MVC design pattern, or graphical user interface objects, or programming languages, boolean logic, or.... They just put them together in a pleasing way...

...a fact for which they should be praised strongly and wholeheartedly (which I have done in the past). What they should NOT do is have the chutzpah to try to prevent people from building on ITS ideas the same way they built on others ideas.

Ideas are all we ever have. The notion of property itself is an abstraction. We own ideas because it is all we can own.

...a fact I've made multiple times over the past 10 years in this blog and in articles for ZDNet. Though you probably don't remember, I spent years fighting with open source / free software advocates over the nature of intellectual property. I'm hardly a "no IP" luddite.

On the other hand, I also understand the importance of limits on IP. You believe in IP, and so do I. Why not allow patents to be like physical property that you can pass on as inheritance to your grandkids? Why 20 years? Why not allow Mozart's descendants have the copyright for all the songs Mozart created centuries ago?

We make different constructs for IP because intellectual property is different then physical property. I'm arguing we have the wrong construct for IP.

I'm all for copyright (though I think we've made the protection period far longer than it should be). Idea monopolies, however, are a bad idea, as a) ideas will be generated anyway, and b) copyright is enough incentive to create. Apple is generating stack of profit from the iPhone, and has a huge head start. What does society gain by locking that head start in for the next 20 years?

Truth be told, there is no chance in hell that Apple will survive a patent war, standing as it must against companies that in the aggregate could bring Apple to its knees with patents. This is why Apple is likely to use these patents to give itself a little breathing space. It is FUD using smaller, less patent-rich companies as the grist between the wheels.

That doesn't make it any less wrong.
0 Votes
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Idea monopolies are ...
step back 10th Mar 2010
John,

You wrote: " Idea monopolies, however, are a bad idea, as a) ideas will be generated anyway and b) ...".

The problem with that thought is that you cannot patent an "idea". (And by a similar token, you cannot copyright an "idea". You can only copyright an expression of an idea if that expression is an original work of authorship that has a modicum of creativity.)
0 Votes
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Overstated
norgate 10th Mar 2010
Is it possible that you are overstating the power of the patent. We can
have ideas without the idea police stopping by. We will iterate on
previous work, but the iteration itself may be novel and have
independent merit. Still no knock on the door. We can be "inspired" by
other's work and learn by copying. Again, no jail time. Small
companies can exist for their duration under the radar providing
bargain versions of a larger vendor's wares and violating patents left
and right. Yes patent wars are for big players. So leave them to it.

I object to the patent, by itself, being characterized as the death of
innovation. It is not. What has been the death of innovation is the
knockoff industry. As we speak, and according to ZDNet's own
masthead, 50 "pads" are being developed. Why now? Because Apple
said it was ok. Apple will grease the wheels of the marketplace,
introduce a genuinely novel and high quality product, and watch 50
other wannabes clamber to copy it. Just don't call this innovation. It is
pure reaction. Isn't the timing a clue?

Patents need to be applied for, granted, realized, defended, then sent
off to college. For Apple, to use legal action, they will have invested
millions in R&D, product development, marketing, and production.
Then they will give liberal warnings that this is their baby. After the
wholesale misuse of not 1, not 2, but 20 arguably novel ideas that
conglomerate in a single inarguably novel device, they give a final
warning. "You've ripped us off, please stop". Only after all this is the
law being used. Not Apple's law, our law. This suit has not targeted
some coder in a garage, or a 20 man team. It has targeted a massive
knockoff artist and a known monopolist, the very same monopolist
that ripped off Apple's GUI in the 80's.

Ya know what. Truck out those "100" patents you are sure Microsoft
has. The same hundred that would have allowed them to build their
own iPhone years before Apple (but somehow didn't). Lay them on the
table and defend them as vigorously as you can. Maybe they will do
better than they did with the i4i suit. Then let's see if you can be the
one to die by the sword you lived by.
0 Votes
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Yes they should
No_Ax_to_Grind 10th Mar 2010
Yes, humans are capable of deciding if it's "obvious" or not.

As to Apple stopping innovation, I don't see it. At worst they can collect some royalties.
0 Votes
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Re: Who decides what is obvious?
rossdav@... 9th Mar 2010
John responded brilliantly, but my two cents:
No, the first GUI should NOT have been patentable. The specific code and the hardware created to make it work could be copyrighted, however, a patent on the idea of using a graphical user interface is simply ridiculous.
0 Votes
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What do the following objects have in common?

SD Cards
Battery compartments
Laptop Lids
Suitcases
Jewelry Clasps
Tape Measures

I could go on for a very long time, but I?ll get
to the point. Each of those things has had a
sliding unlock mechanism for years. To unlock,
push object A to point B. All Apple has done is
simulate the same mechanism utilizing software.
That is my definition of obvious. They should
get a patent for that?

If they want to trademark the color scheme or
copyright the source code, I?m fine with that,
but there must be thousands of different ways to
implement the idea of sliding to unlock using
software.
0 Votes
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Outstanding Post NT
Darth Malus 9th Mar 2010
NT
0 Votes
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Here's a small change
slopoke 9th Mar 2010
The following is part of US patent law:

"A patentee who makes or sells patented articles, or a person who does so for or under the patentee is required to mark the articles with the word "Patent" and the number of the patent. The penalty for failure to mark is that the patentee may not recover damages from an infringer unless the infringer was duly notified of the infringement and continued to infringe after the notice."

The way I read this is that the packaging of any software (or hardware) that is covered by a patent needs to list all the patents that it is covered by. Can you imagine the Windows 7 box if this were implemented? Not to mention that lack of a listing on the package indicates that the owner doesn't think the product is covered.

I'm all for a push to hold patent owners to the letter of this law and let's see how long it takes for the whole racket to fall apart under it's own weight.
0 Votes
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RE: Shut down the patent office?
atari_z 9th Mar 2010
I agree that this patent system must be changed from the ground-up, but the problems did not begin with Apple (which is even one of the companies which really invents before trying to monetize things that should never had been patented).

Microsoft use it for some time now to scare companies about the use of Linux, for example. But it i just another example.
0 Votes
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these patents. Seems Apple is getting sued for something
every other week and perhaps this is their way of making a
point.
The smartphones market is so small, I'm surprised it's
generating all this news.
If Apple's inventions are found to have been non-
obvious they will keep the patent that usually others
can licence.
If there is prior art, or it's judged to be too
obvious, then they will lose the patent.
That's how it works. It isn't perfect, but then show
me a more perfect system. Like democracy it's the
least worst system so far.

I just don't like touch interfaces. Anti multi-touch
for zoom just seems ridiculous. If I text & use a
regular button phone, the interface is much faster,
and more efficient, and crucially single handed.

By comparison, the touch interfaces although being
fancy, are actually very poor in usability and
efficiency of interaction. I can't see them being more
than a passing fad really.
0 Votes
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THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!
bendib 9th Mar 2010
You hit the nail on the head! THAT is why I dislike software
patents! Thank you! I have no problem with owning code, but I
havce a huge issue with patenting ideas in software. Other
places are usually fine, but in software, it's real bad. Patents on
software prevent people from making a good idea better. Wow.
I had no idea others thought exactly like me. Wow.
0 Votes
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The big companies patent many ideas for things that they have no intention of implementing (as well as for things which they will actually produce), strictly to enable them later to go after any other company that may implement the idea. Kind of like the folks who registered URLs using the names of well known companies when the internet first went public (I have no problem with the URL thing LOL). Squashing competition is what it is all about. I agree with the author - something needs to change.

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