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Will we see Samsung webOS tablets and smartphones in the future?

By | August 29, 2011, 6:58am PDT

Summary: Samsung makes beautiful hardware and webOS is a great OS. A partnership between these two could be a wonderful thing, don’t you think?

Samsung is currently number 2 in the global smartphone vendor lineup, behind Apple and ahead of Nokia. They have their own OS, make Windows Phone 7 devices, and are tops in Android devices. We now hear rumors that they are considering HP’s webOS and I have to say that would be a great choice.

I wouldn’t mind if Samsung gave up Android to go with webOS instead since I think webOS is a better OS than Android and it would get Samsung away from all the Android lawsuits flying around. They may be a bit nervous about the future of Android with Google buying Motorola too. I would hate for Samsung to give up on WP7 because I really like that platform, but there’s nothing to say Samsung wouldn’t continue to support multiple platforms like they do now.

My biggest issue with webOS has always been the sub-par hardware and that would be cured immediately if Samsung was making webOS devices since they make some beautiful high-end hardware. Can you image Samsung webOS smartphones and tablets? I’m drooling just thinking about it.

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Matthew Miller started using a Pilot 1000 in 1997 and has been writing news, reviews, and opinion pieces ever since.

Disclosure

Matthew Miller

Matthew is a professional naval architect by day and a mobile gadget freak at all other times. He purchases his own devices and then sells them on eBay or Craigslist to buy more. Many other devices are sent for review on a 30-day loaner basis and then returned to the carrier or manufacturer. If any are provided as “long term loaner units” this will be clearly disclosed in his reviews.

Biography

Matthew Miller

Matthew Miller started using a mobile devices in 1997 and has been writing news, reviews, and opinion pieces ever since. He is a co-host with GigaOM's Kevin Tofel on the MobileTechRoundup podcast and an author of three Wiley Companion series books. Matthew started using mobile devices with a US Robotics Pilot 1000 and has owned over 125 different devices running Palm, Linux, Symbian, Newton, BlackBerry, iOS, Android, webOS, Windows Mobile, and Windows Phone operating systems. His current collection includes an HTC Radar 4G, Dell Venue Pro, Apple iPad 2, HTC Flyer, Samsung Galaxy Nexus, Nokia N9, Apple iPhone 4S, MacBook Pro, and many more, along with tons of accessories and classic devices like the Apple Newton MessagePad 2100 and Sony CLIE UX50. Matthew can be found on various discussion forums under the user name of "palmsolo".
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RE: Will we see Samsung webOS tablets and smartphones in the future?
tomlin21-24319035676893835085146735905770 11th Oct
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They do not want tablets that aren't iPads. And if they want a smartphone that isn't an iPhone, they aren't willing to pay enough to give the manufacturer any substantial profit.

Apple won. It's over. I'd rather see companies like Samsung work on the next big thing rather than waste their time and money on a losing proposition like WebOS, Android, and WP7. Please note that I'm not saying these are bad OSs but time has shown us that they are all losing propositions. Until someone can come out with an ecosystem that can rival the iTunes / iOS ecosystem nothing other than iOS devices will succeed in the market. My prediction is that iOS will be the only devices worth buying for the next 20 years because no one else can just "pop up" an ecosystem.
@toddybottom

Same logic.

Apple should give up on the PC market. After 30 years of trying and trying, it only has 10% of the PC market. They should just call it quits and move on. Its clear that Windows is king and will be forever. I rarely see a Mac in the wild!
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@mstrsfty Apple does not compete in the razor thin margin market of sub $1,000 PCs. Apple owns 90% of the revenue (and thus profit since Apple's profit margins are at least as good as the competitors) in the PC market that it has chosen to compete in. So it isn't true to say Apple has been trying (and failing) to compete in the general PC market. Apple has been trying (and succeeding) to own 90%+ of the high end PC market.

In the low end PC market, Apple has 100%+ of the profit share that it has chosen to compete in: tablets.
@toddybottom
Yes, but consider that high-end PCs do not make up most of the PC market.
Also, you're making a mistake by trying to equate tablets with low-end desktops. They are not the same thing. Low-end desktops can do much more than tablets. They have bigger screens and better components.
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Who cares?
toddybottom 29th Aug
@mstrsfty
"Yes, but consider that high-end PCs do not make up most of the PC market."

Yes. So? Apple is not trying to compete in anything other than the high end PC market. Your previous post said that Apple should quit because it has tried for 30 years but only has 10% of the PC market. Your previous post was incorrect because Apple has not tried for 30 years to get marketshare in the PC market. Apple has tried for 30 years to get marketshare in the high end PC market and has a virtual monopoly on that market (90%+ of all the revenue). So why should Apple quit trying when they've succeeded so amazingly at capturing 90%+ of the market that they were trying to capture?

"you're making a mistake by trying to equate tablets with low-end desktops"

I'm not trying to suggest that tablets are the same as low-end desktops. They aren't. Again, I've made it very clear to state that Apple has succeeded brilliantly in their take on the low end PC market. Where Apple has tried to compete, they have succeeded in achieving a monopoly on profits if not on marketshare.

Just to clarify, I'm merely presenting a counterpoint to your argument that:
"Apple should give up on the PC market. After 30 years of trying and trying, it only has 10% of the PC market."

Apple has not tried to succeed in the PC market. They tried (and succeeded) in the high PC market and their take on the low end PC market: the tablet.
@toddy

You are focusing on a specific market segment. He is talking about the overall PC SEGMENT as a whole.

Both of you have different performance measures.
@toddybottom - only competing in the high end?

So I suppose that is why they have run ads trying to get folks to switch from Windows and why they sell the Mac Mini. Apple's 'high end' computer market is only high end because they charge way too much for their computers. Component wise and capability wise you can spend way less and buy a Windows based PC that will do everything the Mac does. I think this has especially be proven by folks that hack a Mac OS into a generic Intel based machine.
@teddybottom - So, let me get this straight. Your original comment stands, but, by your own logic, it's OK and should be excused from the blanket condemnation of a device or platform as a failure if a tablet maker defines a specific market and succeeds in it? Succeeds, as in garners market share in whatever subsegment of the total market it chooses to "compete" in? Like say, a high-end maker using a Windows operating system? Or maybe the success of the Galaxy Tab would be an example (such a strong one that Apple chose them as their first litigation target)? Or maybe the Nook color would be a resounding success, given that it pretends to be not much more than a color e-book reader. I don't think your argument holds much water.
@mstrsfty Apple is the No3 in PC shipments, and makes a hiher margin than no.1 (HP) and No.2 (Dell), so why would they want to get out?

If you look at where they are taking iOS and OSX, there is convergence. That, I think is where you will see the next big thing from Apple. A Mac that can run iOS apps, or would it be an iPad that can run OSX apps?
@toddybottom Get back to us when you get a clue.
@toddybottom Spoken like someone who has never drank anything other then Apple flavored kool-aid. Sadly, Apple is repeating the mistakes of the past. Most consumers want choice, Apple does not provide choice, and as a result it will bleed away market share. Something that has been happening with the iPhone for quite sometime and will begin very soon with the iPad.

Some people want keyboards, or larger screens or smaller screens? Apple provides a great product, but a single phone/tablet, and single form-factor isn?t going to be enough as more consumers start moving into the smart phone and tablet marketplace.
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Profitshare is what counts
toddybottom 29th Aug
@ccrockett@...
Android is only seeing some level of success from the bottom feeders making crappy phones with negative profit margins that only the poor will buy because they can't afford an iPhone. No one is seeing any success from any phone that is priced at anything close to what the iPhone is priced at. Only Apple is making a profit in the smartphone market and don't even get me started on the tablet market.

You know what will kill Android? Apple deciding to continue selling the previous generation iPhones at a huge discount. Apple will still make a ton of money from them because all the R&D and up-front costs have long since been recovered. Meanwhile all the Android makers have to try and recoup their R&D (if they do any) and up-front costs on production runs that number in the thousands or low hundreds of thousands. It is not a sustainable business model.
@shoddybottom In response to the apple troll: you really claim that Android is only seeing success in the low-end market? Where on earth are you living? Most Android-run phones are high end devices that kick the pants off of the iphone. Dual-core processors, large screens, real keyboards and the ability to customize your phone/tablet are the reasons that Android phones are more high-end than the iPhone. Worldwide and in the USA, more phones run Android than iOS, so not sure where you assume that Android is only seeing "some level of success".

Again, the iphone is only in the higher price point because people like you will pay that much for an inferior product.

The only way your argument would hold water is if you were talking about tablets, not smartphones. There are many low-end Android tablets out there, but there are also many high-end ones like the Galaxy Tab and Asus Transformer.
@toddy. I can imagine the amount of wool covered on your eyes as you seem typical iSheep. Successfull sell does not mean better product, it could just be that there are more fools in the world than smart people. Once people get more knowledge, iPhone will die naturally and that process has already started.

iPhone and Androids are different kind of devices. iPhone is PC (or Mac) tethered device and require iTune and computer for everyday use. Androids are independent phones and does not require to carry your PC evertywhere. This is very basic and simple things that fools don't realise.

Another reason Android is better is that Android means freedom and iPhone is for Steve Job Slaves.

I am not Android fan, but I hate everything that try to capture market by taking advantage of fools and corporate bribes. i.e. Apple iPhone, Oracle etc. We need some ethics in business world otherwise world will be ruled by vultures, Steve Jobs, Larry Ellisons and corrupt politicians.
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A different prediction
itpro_z 29th Aug
Despite its remarkable sales numbers, Apple's iOS devices have a very tiny market penetration. As you claim, Apple has done an excellent job of siphoning money from early adopters, but the vast majority of the public is still sitting on the sidelines. iPhones and iPads are fashionable devices, but for most are cost prohibitive. How will Apple's profits and fortunes fair when these devices become commodities, as is the norm with all new technology? Will Apple still rake in the billions when tablets sell for under $100 and every phone is a smart phone? We are already seeing the decline of the iPod, one of Apple's cash cows, and can easily see in the near future the same fate for the iPhone and iPad. Unless Apple has another Ace up their sleeve the future does not look very bright.

I predict that in 10 years iOS will be little more than a footnote in tech history, and that Apple will have been gobbled up by a larger competitor. Samsung, perhaps?
@itpro_z
"Apple's iOS devices have a very tiny market penetration."

Where do you live? Almost everywhere I go I see iPhones and iPads. Everyone knows what an iPhone is, not everyone knows what a Droid Charge, Galaxy S II, Pre or WP7 [insert phone name here] is.
Bignerd, I see iPhones here and there, but I see more Android phones and BBs, which matches market numbers. I still see more dumb phones than smart phones, so, as I said, most are still on the sidelines.

As for iPads, I see very few in the wild. We have two at the office, but they spend most of their time in desk drawers as the two people (our CFO and COO) who got them found them to be of little use. Out of the office I rarely see iPads, but then again I don't hang out at coffee shops or juice bars where the trendy set frequent. I do see Android tablets, most commonly the B&N Nook Color, but tablets in general are not that common among the general population.
@itpro_z I'd agree that relatively few people, overall, have purchased any tablets. We're talking a few million devices total, out of a worldwide population of what, 6 billion? i think that puts tablet sales at less than 1% of the global population -- a small number.

I'd also agree that we're starting to see iPod sales slow down. Let's face it -- at least the basic music players. I believe the iPod Touch continues to sell well, and obviously iPhone and iPad models are selling very well.

But I think it's a bit premature to predict iPhone and iPad sales slowing like iPod sales. Music-only iPods (which, btw, sold quite well for nearly a decade) are limited devices: "one trick ponies", if you will, whereas iPhones and iPads have numerous uses and excellent general purpose computing devices. Most importantly, they're adaptable: in addition to new hardware features that Apple can add, apps make sure new functionality can be added whenever. And with 300,000 apps already available, there are tons of uses for the things.

And Apple probably does have another ace up its sleeve. Or two. Or three. And in the meantime, it has the #1 selling smartphone (not platform) and the #1 selling tablet. So, for the foreseeable future, it's in an excellent, enviable position in both of those markets.

Don't discount that Apple also is the only tablet maker to have "scale" on their side, too. Because of the rate at which they're selling iPads (and to a lesser extent, iPhones) Apple is getting better component pricing than other tablet makers. That makes it that much harder for competitors to fight Apple on pricing alone ... if they even want to: competing on price isn't always a wise business move.

Finally, there's the whole patent war that's brewing. Apple may yet be able to curtail sales of competing tablets and smartphones that infringe on Apple patents.

As for "Apple will be gobbled up by a larger competitor" ... who might that be? As the second most valuable company in the world (and briefly as #1), there essentially is no one larger ... unless or until Apple starts to sputter. But analysts don't see that happening any time soon, given the strength of Apple's product lines in their respective markets ... and the weaknesses of its competitors.

If anything, Android may well wind up being a footnote in tech history, notable for what can happen when a company isn't as careful as it should to avoid incorporating patented technologies into its products.
jscott69, I agree with much of what you said, but disagree on a couple of points. First, Apple has done very well selling first the iPods and now the iPhone and iPad. Both sell at a premium price, a luxury that Apple can afford due to a lack of competition. Well, competition is heating up on the phone front, as Android has come on strong and the early reviews of Microsoft's offering seem to hint at it being a viable OS. Apple is already feeling price pressure, and is promising a new, cheaper iPhone to compete. On the tablet front, MS is going to enter the game next year, while hardware companies like Samsung already have tablets that compare very favorably to the iPad. Windows 8 could very well end up being a game changer.

Yes, Apple has the ecosystem, but another player is about to hit the market who also appears to have the ecosystem and marketing clout to go head to head with Apple: Amazon. Amazon will subsidize the price of their tablet to gain market share, and has the patience to stay with it for the long haul. If Amazon, and perhaps others, succeed in turning tablets into commodity items, will that impact Apple's profits? Apple has iTunes, but that pales next to Amazon's marketplace. Apple seems to be heading in the opposite direction, taking their tablets to even higher specs and prices. There are indications that most of the public has stayed away from tablets because of price, not features. Witness the buying frenzy for HPs orphaned tablet. If Apple pushes to higher price with their new Retina Display iPad 3, will the public follow, or migrate to Amazon, who will offer more services and a much larger marketplace at a fraction of the price?

Time will tell.
@toddybottom
Good point . . . but I think that the Galaxy Tab has also been reasonably successful. Apple has more control over its ecosystem - that is why they are so successful. The other reason is that they design their products so well.

Now that Samsung has learned how to make good-looking tablets and phones too, Apple is getting scared!
@toddybottom
Lol wow you lived in a sheltered world don't you. All your statments are false and completely blinded by your apple zealoty. The ipad is the most overpriced under functional of all the tablets released the ones who buy them are the apple folks who buy what steve jobs tells them. Side by side almost all other tablets destroy the ipad excpt due to the ipads lack of functions its battery life is good. The xoom, galaxy, thrive and transformer are all better tablets Apple tv is a failure and the iphone well its outdated and way behind most other android based smart phones .To buy a mac for $3500 just macs you a nut who doesn't value their dollar. I think you may want to go outside the apple walls and take another look. Consumers make it quiet clear they prefer windows over ios/mac and they prefer android over the iphones with ios
@toddybottom
Well, I am a consumer and have a small business. And, just to make it clear: I DO want webOS devices; both phones and tablets. I have been telling HP since early this year: Deliver a Pre 3 and a TouchPad that I can buy with VZW support and I will be at the store on DAY-1.

But, HP has proven in the past that they are totally inept and have no marketing savvy. To sit around on their collective butts and get so far behind the curve is the only downside to webOS devices. It is a marketing and a delivery problem; not a technology problem.

I've been a Palm user since the Pilot, including a Treo 650 and, currently a Pre Plus. I have no financial nor any other conned to to Palm, and certainly not to HP. (OK, I also have several HP printers, but after this latest stunt, I'll look elsewhere for future printers so I don't get abandoned again.) So, I admit to my bias. What about yours?
@toddybottom The iPAD ecosystem is NOT an ecosystem for more business oriented people. The iPAD is a status symbol but does not address the needs of the business. There is a clear place for more more business oriented devices on which you can do real work. And that is and will not be the iPAD for a long time. This has nothing to do with the ecosystem or anything else. Actually, by selling its hardware dirt cheap, HP just created an ecosystem that will count in the future.
@toddybottom I suppose that is why Apple is suing Samsung? (and loosing) Because Samsung is no competition at all, yea just write them off, don't need to sue them. They make all the hardware for Apple products anyhow. Android slowly but surely taking away Apple's market share.
@toddybottom I disagree. No-one has made a compelling enough product yet.

Usually I dislike these journalist write ups, but one said recently that the trouble with launching a tablet that competes with the iPad is that consumers are not buying a Tablet, they are buying an Ipad.. which was just the next generation of all things that started with the iPod, then went to the iPhone.

What HP failed to do was convince the consumer that there was a generational change and an ecosystem that went with the Touchpad.... mainly because the Palm Pre was nota success.

Look at ebay now. It's not the device that was an issue, it was the device for the price... and this is even with most people thinking the OS is dead (Thanks to incorrect journalism)
@toddybottom : "Apple won. It's over."

Yeah, yeah. That's sort of what Nokia was saying for quite awhile, not that long ago.
I don't see it happening unless HP either spins it out into a separate company -- they could call it "Palm" -- or makes it open source. The issue isn't how nifty WebOS is today, it's who will maintain it and keep it up to date as new processors, displays, and glue chips come out.

If Samsung takes that on internally, then WebOS just becomes their deal the same way that Android just became Motorola's deal, i.e. others will start to shy away from it. That leaves Samsung bearing the entire cost of WebOS maintenance when it will probably never amount to more than a third of their phone volume.
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Another possibility is Palm's patent portfolio
Rabid Howler Monkey Updated - 29th Aug
Acquiring Palm's patent portfolio from HP might be sufficient for Samsung to fend off Apple. And if Google completes the Motorola acquisition, Samsung could choose to cross-license their Palm patents with Google's Motorola patents. Thus, building an even stronger patent portfolio.

In any case, this would provide Samsung with a measure of independence from Google whether or not they choose to proceed with WebOS.
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Message has been deleted.
JackLuna Updated - 29th Aug
I laugh when I hear about how Apple has won the tablet wars. Win8 isn't even out yet which will run on ARM, and I think WebOS would be a brilliant acquisition for Samsung (or at least they should use it).

I believe, unless Google (or Moogle) takes more active control of Android and makes it more like iOS and Win Phone where the company is much more in control of th OS, it will be gone sooner than anyone would imagine.

I know bold prediction, but watch and wait. If it continuyes to have IP issues, and performance issues, and Mango does well, things can change in a hurry.
@dcristof Google, Apple and Micro$oft can have control of my Android OS when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers. Root your Android, Jailbreak your Iphone, wait for hotfixes to brick your Windows phone.
@dcristof I'm waiting for the hardware improvements. Laptops are as capable as most desktops, and tablets are quickly catching up. Won't be long before we have full computers that can be undocked and used as slates while on the go.
@dcristof

As a practicing engineer, a rule to follow is that three 'IF's destroys any proposal.

The secret to success for Google with Android is to make it free. Let the manufacturers control the OS, but let interested public parties also control it too.

Google makes it's money from Android off of ads. The manufacturers make their money off Android by selling the hardware.

Apple and Microsoft want to make money off of Android by charging $5.00 apiece for each handset. This works as long as the handsets cost more than $150 each.

That would mean that Microsoft would make more off of Android than they currently make off of WinPhone 7, or, more than they ever made off of previous WinPhones.

Apple still makes more off of iPhone, but Android is still a significant chunk of change for Apple.

The nightmare for Apple and Microsoft is that someone will actually challenge them in court, because the patents being claimed are not actually being violated by the Android system, but the claims in the patents are so broad that they can be used to seem to cover anything. That is why the settlements are so restricted. The claimants, (Microsoft and Apple) need to keep the amount they claim to license for less than the cost to actually prosecute the lawsuit.

As we have seen in the Google verses Oracle suit, 95% of what is claimed gets tossed out by the judge right up front.

As the Wright Brothers found out 100 years ago, business by patent lawsuit doesn't build a business, it only prevents others from building a business. Neither Apple nor Microsoft will benefit from this patent madness. Both companies recognize it as madness, but they have to play by the same insane rules as the lawyers and courts.
Yes, I think the Iphone is too expensive and I just dislike the arrogance of Google and so this might persuade me to buy a smart phone; I think Samsung is becoming more major player too. My laptop is HP, Samsung next time.
Samsung has the best vertically integrated hardware divisions down pat.

webOS has one of the best implementation of a mobile OS with critically future oriented programming built into its source.

HP has no expertise in mobile whereas Samsung has a proven track record. They will most likely keep Bada for the low end, keep webOS for the high end. Soon they will be ditching Android but make a deal with Google for its search, maps, other internet services to support its growth.

Samsung would also be incorporating webOS, perhaps downsizing it into their other electronics as an embedded systems.

I'd say its a good fit for Samsung and the webOS team as a whole.
A Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 running webOS would be beautiful! I got just a TouchPad (at a discount) and I'm loving it.

Disclaimer: I do own an iPad 1, iPhone 3GS, and plan on getting an iPad 3 (or what ever the one after the iPad 2 is called) as well as an iPhone 5 (or what ever the one after the iPhone 4 is called). Like you Matthew Miller, I am a fan of WP7 as well.

I think all can co-exist granted some will appeal to more people than others.
@rwes

Let me have your job. grin
Back to the topic of this article... I'd love to see the most powerful mobile OS (webOS) on a Samsung device. I just hope they're quicker with their WebOS updates than they are with their Android updates.
Nokia has missed his chance for inovative and "independent" OS.
... actualy HP should help Palm to finish WebOS and new hardware without any interference from HP. After that Palm should use HP dealers network outside the U.S.
Who cares?
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i will be a customer for LIFE!
cptnjarhead Updated - 30th Aug
"My biggest issue with webOS has always been the sub-par hardware"


um.. hardware was not the problem. WebOS needs some work, anandtec did a good article on that. Now if your referring to small screen, small keyboard and lack of input/outputs then im right there with you. But webos with preware/patched runs much better.
If samsung buy's webos and stands behind it, with hardware and software, I will be a customer and advocate for LIFE!
Long live WebOS!!!!!
Hope so, that would be a great system. Apple needs the competition to stay focused and fresh. It will be years before Microsoft has a true competitive system, although WP7 is good, and 7.5 looks great.
With the webOS under their wings, Samsung will be able to escape the bad name that they are under, from quite some time since the launch of their Samsung Galaxy tablet! let?s wait till Samsung actually buys webOS and makes it huge http://tablettechtoday.com/?p=880
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RE: Will we see Samsung webOS tablets and smartphones in the future?
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RE: Will we see Samsung webOS tablets and smartphones in the future?
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