Community, Incorporated

Joe Brockmeier

Apple continues abuse of App store

By Joe Brockmeier | December 23, 2008, 8:10am PST

If any company desperately needs a clueful community manager, it’s Apple. I’ve written before about the company’s issues with the App store and the way it treats developers (as have many others) but it looks like they’re still having a hard time getting a handle on developer relations.

Ars Infinite Loop blog takes up the case of developers who have been waiting for up to three months for their apps to be approved:

Hart even goes as far as calling Apple’s attempts at support thus far “amateur,” and claims that the problems are widespread. His comments made us a bit curious as to whether this was simply the case of a particular developer making a lot of noise, or the problem truly is as widespread as he suggests. We decided to talk to a few more developers (besides our own Erica Sadun, of course) to see if the accusations were justified.

Ivan Papavich of Brancipater Software has had similar experiences. According to Ivan, the reviewing of applications takes a long time, but worse, that the time frame for review is so sporadic. “It could be two days, it could be two months” Ivan told us. Further, the lack of feedback on what “step” the review process is on further adds to the frustration. Ivan says, “The bottom line is that iTunes Connect is alright, as long as nothing goes wrong. As soon as something does go wrong, it’s bloody annoying and hard to fix.” The folks at Brancipater added that they would be willing to pay for support that met a certain standard.

To give all due credit, Apple has done a lot right with the iPhone. From the user perspective, the App store is a shining example of ease of use. Another tech journalist I respect quite a lot was just commenting today on how he could easily kill an hour browsing the App Store.

But the gatekeeper approach has to be excruciating for the developer community. And even though the user experience is a nice one, I’m not keen on supporting an ecosystem that blocks a number of useful applications from being available in the name of blocking competition with Apple’s own apps.

My next phone will be an Android.

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It's the Sherman anti-trust act

rtk 5th Jan 2009

specifically, The Act provides: "Every contract, combination in the form of trust or otherwise, or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, is declared to be illegal".[2] The Act also provides: "Every person who shall monopolize, or attempt to monopolize, or combine or conspire with any other person or persons, to monopolize any part of the trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, shall be deemed guilty of a felony.

Apple can violate the Sherman Act by attempting to monopolize, even before they have a monopoly.

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Please Select
Please Select

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Android is an OS. Not a phone.

prabhus14 23rd Dec 2008

Remind you Android is an OS and not a phone. Also has t-mobile guaranteed that all the apps will be reviewed within an SLA?

Also which will you prefer? An app store with millions of apps leaving the user to pick the best ones or a place where only the best and useful of the apps exist?

I agree that apple follows some anti-competitive policies by not allowing opera, tom tom apps etc, but apart from that I think they are doing just fine. All my favourite apps (fring, facebook etc) are available.

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Millions

Zonker_z 23rd Dec 2008

I'm an open source guy. I think there's a value-add in selecting the best apps for the user - that's something we try to do with openSUSE, but ultimately, I want more choice. I don't want the provider saying "no, you can't have this one. Not yours."

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Depends on whose doing the "selecting" of the best apps..

xuniL_z Updated - 24th Dec 2008

Who is most qualified for this? It can't be based on popularity since many apps have not been on the market.

It's just "big brother" saying what is best.

Why can't they have a "Our top Picks" section but then categorize other apps so the users have the widest possible choice. There are many niche apps that would hook only =5,000 people, which doesn't seem like many until you figure in that availability may also hook more into Apple products in general and build more word-of-mouth business. Not just for the app but for the experience and points for Apple in general.

All rather trivial stuff but I just don't see how Apple can talk out of both sides of it's mouth as far as "openness" goes. Seems to me that Apple has claimed to have entered a new world of non exclusivity, but is still trying to have the best of both worlds as they see fit.

Meanwhile they are more than willing to point out any such activity by a competitor(usually only perceived or twisted to fit), to the point of trying to build a campaign of negativity around it.

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You'd do it for your own product, too.

esdrasf@... 23rd Dec 2008

If you had your own cell phone, with software designed for
others to write apps for it...and it was as popular as the
iPhone, you wouldn't want cr@p running on it and giving it a
bad name.
The developers are important, but even they need to
centralize their efforts to please the most important person-
-the customer.

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You miss the point

Tony Agudo 23rd Dec 2008

Apple's not keeping "cr@p" out, as you say. It's actively and knowingly blocking apps that are competitive with their own. They admit as much in the notices they sent to the rejected developers. It's a clear-cut case of anti-competitive behavior. Ease of use and anti-competitive behavior do not go hand-in-hand, no matter how much Apple tries to justify it. Let the users decide what apps are cr@p and what aren't.

Plus, Apple doesn't block apps made for OS X, so it's pretty hypocritical that they're doing it on the iPhone.

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it's there device...they can do whatever the hell they want!

doctorSpoc 23rd Dec 2008

if you don't like it then don't buy it... it's really very
simple. most people are obviously ok with the product and
it' software offering and that's why it's selling the way
it is.. if they didn't then they wouldn't have bought it.

Apple have decided that the core set of Apps will be
created by them end of story... they also decided that its
a multi-touch screen, 3.5 inches, x resolution, square
icons etc, etc.. they define the product, you don't, if you
want a product exactly how you like it get a bunch of money
start up your own company and you can design it any way
you'd like.

you guys are actually getting pretty silly... don't like
it, don't buy it.. SIMPLE. but don't be mistaken.. most
people on the normal joes on the street don't really care
about the things you do... iPhones and touches are flying
off the shelves.

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It's their device...

Zonker_z 23rd Dec 2008

No, actually, once I buy it, it's *my* device, and Apple stands between my way of using it and theirs.

Remember, also, the App Store postdates the introduction of the iPhone. Had Apple made clear its policies on the App Store, perhaps a number of people would not have purchased the iPhone.

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don't play dumb.. it's their device to design any way they'd like...

doctorSpoc 23rd Dec 2008

yeah the hardware IS yours to do with what ever you'd
like but the other important part of the product is its
software (or else you've bought yourself an expensive
hockey puck) and software, like from any vendor comes
with terms of use.. so like i said, it comes back to..
if you don't like the product (HW,SW, terms of use etc.)
apple is selling then don't buy it... it's that easy...

apple is not stupid.. they're in this to make money and
if enough people actually cared about what you're
talking about.. they would change but obviously they
don't... they think that people care more about a solid,
integrated device with solid core apps as a it's
bedrock.

it's idiotic... hey, i'd like for MS to allow me to play
my playstation 3 games on my x-box 360 but they won't..
that's anti-competitive, that's not fair... they aren't
letting my use it the way i'd like.. it's MY xbox wah,
wah.. .. do you not see how idiotic your argument actually is.. they define the product, if you
don't like it, don't buy it... SIMPLE!

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Come on, there is a difference between

GuidingLight 23rd Dec 2008

incompatable technologies, and not allowing something to run on another product, you know that.

You can not run PS3 game on an XBox, Nintendo Linux, Windows, or Apple hardware as the technologies are completelly different.

Yet you could probally be able to create a piece of software that allows you to do just that, and Microsoft can not stop you from installing it.

But if Microsoft did stop you from doing so by remotely deleting it, then turned around and tried to sell you their version of the same software, should it be acceptable?

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read my other post MS is a monoply... apple isn't..

doctorSpoc 23rd Dec 2008

when apple sells 90% of cell phones or cell phone OSs
then you might have a point... for now you have NO
point.

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the other thing... does Apple sell Safari, Mail, Address book etc...

doctorSpoc 23rd Dec 2008

which application is Apple *selling* that competes
with another app they won't allow in the app store?
i'll make this easy for you.. NONE!

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doctorspoc.

Bozzer Updated - 23rd Dec 2008

Ease off the medication. GuidingLight never mentioned a microsoft monopoly.n fact, MS monopoly has nothing to do with this argument.

Apple are deciding what goes on their iPhone based on what? And lets not forget Apples track record in trying to silence companies who were declined.

Question: Apple is deciding what the consumer wants. Who knows best? Apple, or the consumer. Who knows what you want best, yourself, or some multi-national.

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As Mr. Spock would say

GuidingLight Updated - 23rd Dec 2008

Your argumnet is illogical.

hey, i'd like for MS to allow me to play
my playstation 3 games on my x-box 360 but they won't..
that's anti-competitive, that's not fair... they aren't
letting my use it the way i'd like.. it's MY xbox wah,
wah.. .. do you not see how idiotic your argument actually is.

How does Apple not allowing an app to run on the iPhone eqate to PS3 games not techically able to run on XBox?

Microsoft being a monopoly is not the reason it will not work, the fact that theye are two completely different systems would be my guess.

hey, i'd like for Apple to allow me to play
my playstation games on my iPhone or iPod touch but they won't..

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also just read satisfaction reports...

doctorSpoc 23rd Dec 2008

3G iPhone 70+% *very* satisfied.. not satisfied, but
very satisfied..
Blackberry Storm 30% very satisfied..

what does that tell you?

i know what it tells me.. that it tells me you have no
idea what the hell you're talking about.. you actually
think that normal people out their on the street
actually think like you.. let me tell you, they don't.
this is tech forum.. techies (of which i consider
myself) are not normal people.. difference between you
and me... i'm smart enough to realize this, and you are
not.

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You don't know what we're talking about, spoc

Tony Agudo 23rd Dec 2008

You're using a sleight of hand trick by bringing up a *user* satisfaction report. However Zonker's blog post isn't about the end user experience at all. It's about the iPhone developer experience, which is a complete 180 degree difference. Individuals and companies alike have invested time, money and resources into creating their own iPhone app, only to wind up blocked by Apple simply because they had the guts to make something competitive(or heaven forbid, innovative!) against Apple's own offerings.

Check out the links in Zonker's blog post. Also look up what happened to apps such as MailWrangler and Podcaster. Then tell us again how much the developer community doesn't matter against the user community.

P.S. - Techies *are* normal people. They just know a bit more about technology than others. By your logic I could say that lawyers aren't normal people because most other people don't know the difference between trademark and trade dress.

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P.S. - Techies...

Balmerism 24th Dec 2008

"They just know a bit more about technology than
others"

Maybe how it work or is made.
But obviously not always how people WANT it to work.

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It's yours with terms and conditions...

Balmerism 24th Dec 2008

doctorSpoc 5th Jan 2009

the rules you are talking about apply to monopolies and
prevent the abuse of monopolies.. how hard is that to
understand?

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i wonder...

bjs_z 23rd Dec 2008

what the posts would be if the headline was "Microsoft continues abuse of App store"

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what a dumb response...

deaf_e_kate 24th Dec 2008

"its their device so....." there is not much hope for people with this attitude especially when you have purchased a device that becomes your immediately. i don't think they understand what they are saying apart from "its great being controlled" imagine buying a car and not being allowed to add a phone charger to it because "its their car so....."
Please shake these people to wake them up to the wider picture/world.

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i agree...

doctorSpoc 23rd Dec 2008

maybe some stream lining does need to happen... but i'm guessing
that even Apple was kind of blindsided by just how successful the
appStore would be and is suffering trying to meet the demand. but
i do agree... the developers too, benefit from keeping the crap
off the device... the buggy, crashing, junk will tend to bring
down the perceived quality of the device and this is bad news for
Apple and developers.. you don't want to be creating apps for a
platform with low perceived quality and reliability.

for the user it's very simple... is there enough there to warrant
me buying into the device and it's ecosystem? and based on recent
sales numbers... i'd say the answer is a resounding YES! people,
especially people on these forums need to understand that people
on the street do give a rats bum about open or closed eccosystems
it all about.. does the device do enough, easy to use enough, fun
to use, look good etc.. if you mentioned closed and open
eccosystem to joe on the street they look at you like you were
from mars...

there is so much there that it's hard to stay mad at them for very
long... i (and my wife) have found myself wasting too much time
browsing the app store... it's a lot of fun... it's like looking
for bargains... that said i too am bummed by them leaving some
apps off the device.. i'd love to have a SlingMedia client (i hope
they are building one).. and a turn by turn GPS Nav app would be
nice too... but open eccosystem.. does the writer actually think
that the normal people on the street actually takes this into
consideration when picking a device.. c'mon man.. time to get out
more!

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RE: Apple continues abuse of App store

CowLauncher 23rd Dec 2008

Apple does need to maintain a certain level of quality and
taste...the jiggling boobs one would probably offend a lot of
customers if Apple had let it on the store. I think they are
trying to be responsible and there is nothing wrong with that.
Those that don't agree do have other choices as you
mentioned you will do.

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The problem with responsibility...

Theli 23rd Dec 2008

...is that it's damned risky. If you don't have the resources to screen all the apps for malicious code or inappropriate contents, then you run a larger risk of liability when a problem does occur.

If Apple claim that they screen and pre-approve every single app and it turns out one of those apps infringes on copyright or patents, Apple could very well get sued.

Do you think Microsoft would want to be legally responsible for each and every application that is developed for Windows?

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people offended by the jiggling boobs

deaf_e_kate 24th Dec 2008

would not have purchased the program - so Apple acts as a censor now as well.

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Maybe moreso than that...

crash89 24th Dec 2008

There was an application for the PC years ago that did something similar. They may have been worried about copyright infringement, as well. If they act as a gatekeeper, they share responsibility if there is a lawsuit.

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RE: Apple continues abuse of App store

bwoolley@... 23rd Dec 2008

Hmm, if this is abuse I think I like it. Anyone remember how painful it could be to find, register, and update software on the Windows Mobile platform. As a developer I can see the issues with Apple execution, but I am not sure that the benefits are not worth the trade-offs.

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The thing is

Zonker_z 23rd Dec 2008

The tradeoffs aren't mandatory, they're arbitrary. Apple doesn't have to curtail the available apps in order to deliver the nice parts of the App Store experience.

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This is true...

Spiritusindomit@... 24th Dec 2008

Microsoft's xbox community gaming system should be a model for services like this. The review processes are thorough, but quick, with lots of feedback. Apple would do well to hire some extra staff, set up decent unit testing and get applications on the store, rather than limiting the number through laziness as a means of making app store status an 'elite' reward for being a good cultist.

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It's the attitude...

dcoaster 23rd Dec 2008

Apple has the "I'm better than everyone else" attitude, so they don't need to be fair. Sigh...

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Nah, it's your attitude

frabjous 24th Dec 2008

And your perception of Apple's attitude, nothing more.

Let's face it, even with Jobs' famous ego, he cannot have
expected to have over 10,000 apps already available in the
App Store, nor over 300 million downloads (by December
5) for a product/service initially offered last July.

I strongly suspect they are erring on the side of caution
while they try to ramp up their app review staff to handle
the crazy volume. It really is as hard to prepare for huge
success, as it is to plan for failure. Let's give it some time,
but keep letting Apple know what developers AND users
want and need. That seems to me to be the best way to a
win-win.

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It shows that the focus is on the customer, not the developer

GuidingLight Updated - 23rd Dec 2008

Which is a shame. They should be treated equally as without good developers, you have no good Apps to sell your customers.

Though with the Apps they have remotely removed from the iPhone, I wonder if the wait is intentional, to see how fast Apple's developers can create their own version of a submitted App they beleive might really generate some revenue.

Then they do not have to share the profits with a developer.

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That would be an anti-competitive act

Tony Agudo 23rd Dec 2008

Though with the Apps they have remotely removed from the iPhone, I wonder if the wait is intentional, to see how fast Apple's developers can create their own version of a submitted App they believe might really generate some revenue.

If that's the case, then that would be grounds for those rejected developers to sue.

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Wow, what a leap

frabjous 24th Dec 2008

It is obvious you are not a lawyer. Given our strongly
capitalist economy/society and the Apple licensing around
the iPhone, iPod Touch and the whole apps business, what
possible grounds do you think there are in for a lawsuit?

Keep in mind that, as has been stated before, Apple does not
hold a monopoly position, so anticompetitive behavior is very
narrowly defined.

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anti-competitive and mopolistic practices are related, but not the same

Tony Agudo 25th Dec 2008

You don't need to be a monopoly to commit anti-competitive practices.

The scenario GuidingLight posed could be grounds for a lawsuit. For example, let's say someone created a full-blown iPhone web editor. The developer submits the app to Apple today. He/she waits up to three months, maybe more. Then the developer gets a rejection notice claiming it competes with an Apple-created app for the same purpose. Yet at the time the app was submitted, Apple had no iPhone software that accomplished that task, nor were there any signs such a product was in development until after the developer's app was rejected. Doesn't that sound like Apple intentionally blocked someone else's innovation for the purpose of making their own version of it? Why not allow the app and let the market decide which is better?

But as I stated right off in my response to GuidingLight, it's if that were the case. If it's not, then it's just Apple treating developers like second-class citizens in the iPhone community, despite the fact that they are users too.

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RE: Apple continues abuse of App store

chromeronin 23rd Dec 2008

Android, Symbian, OpenMoko, PALM OS, Windows Mobile, Android, iphone,
PalmOS etc, hey at least there is choice. The problem is the best user
experiance one is tightly controlled by it's creator and you have to follow
their rules.
Unfortunately it is how they control the user experiance.
The problem people are finding is that after dropping lots of money on
hardware, then buying lots of software for the device, they are tied into
it and it is hard to move to another platform. Sounds like desktop and
server OS's to me 8)
I was a palm user from ages ago (first was a palm III, then Tungsten, then
Treo) and I had a huge collection of software, some bought, most free and I
used the deivce for work and fun, but then my palmOS treo broke and was
replaced under my phone insurance, guess what, Vodaphone nolonger sold any
PalmOS devices, but would replace it with a windows mobile one! Cheers.
Thats like telling a Mac user that, "sorry, your iMac screen is broken, but
here, have a nice Dell instead. It's faster and has more memory!"
Now with windows, hey it could be a different vendor, but atleast my apps
would still run, aslong as it was an intel machine.
I'm hoping linux wins more mindshare in phones as that OS is not restriced
on cpu, memory, video etc. Anyone can write drivers for it, you don't have
to be Apple or Microsoft, etc.
The best phone I have used, (after selling my crappy Windows Mobile Treo)
is my hacked iPhone. As I no longer have to use iTunes to sync I can now
install many useful apps including a calander that synchs will all iCal
sources, not just MobileMe and MS Active Sync 8)
And I can share my internet link with my linux laptop. Where no vendor has
yet supported a working 3G card for linux, Apple has provided mine (once
jailbroken that is) App sotre and iTunes are the only real problems with
the iphone because they cant be fixed by anyone but Apple.
Software brought to you by the people who make you restart after installing
a patch to support more cameras in a photo editing app, and Finder, the app
you cant kill when it crashes).
I have some great software in OS X, and apple have provided none of it.
Apple up until now have made great hardware, but don't let them near your
applications stack.

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RE: Apple continues abuse of App store

rawdibob 24th Dec 2008

What do Apple, OPEC and the former USSR have in common?

They are all Monopolists. They abhor competition and freedom. You can tell it by their actions.

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Wow, what a leap

frabjous 24th Dec 2008

So sorry you missed so many Economics and World History
classes, or you would know Apple is NOT a monopoly, OPEC
is a cartel (big difference) and the former USSR was a
country, not a company (bigger difference). Your point
becomes nonsensical.

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Developers should rule the world, right?

UrbanBard 24th Dec 2008

They should be able to coerce Apple into doing anything the
developers want, right?

The developers are the producers in this. Who protects the
rights of consumers here? Apple does.

Why should Apple NOT give the developers everything they
want? After all, Apple makes money off all the Apps, no
matter how absurd or cr*ppy they are.

Apple has a vested interest in the ecology of the App store. If
customers are overloaded with substandard and expensive
applications, then they will go elsewhere. Along with them
goes their money,

Apple has every reason to police the App Store to keep the
developers from ruining a good thing.

Remember, Apple paid for all of this. They set up the market
place that you want to exploit. Someone must protect the
rights of the customer, because some of you developers are
greedy, amoral and incompetent. Or worse yet, you are
socialists who want to wreck the market place.

Fie on you wreckers. You don't own the App store; you are a
guest here. Act like it.

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Software writing?

BALTHOR 24th Dec 2008

It can't be done!

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I don't think you get it...

Mike Cox 24th Dec 2008

Part of the reasoning for this is to make sure crap-ware does not take over the App Store. If left to their own devices, many people would take advantage of the App Store for malware, trojans. etc. How hard would it be to write an app to parse your contacts and then send it back to a central server somewhere for sale to 3rd parties? The "walled garden" approach is good for those who don't mind dealing with some of the limitations. If you want freedom for all, then go the Android/Linux route. But realize there are 2 sides to this story.

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Next Phone Android...

serpentmage 25th Dec 2008

Gee your next phone an Android?

Let's look at your bio...

Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier is a longtime FOSS advocate, and currently works for Novell as the community manager for openSUSE. Prior to joining Novell, Brockmeier worked as a technology journalist covering the open source beat for a number of publications, including Linux Magazine, Linux Weekly News, Linux.com, UnixReview.com, IBM developerWorks, and many others.

Need I say more? I am even surprised that you bought an iPhone.

BTW the iPhone is not meant for you. You are not the target crowd... Nothing to do with ego, but if there is one Apple understands is how to make its target crowd happy.