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David Gewirtz

Contact managers and CRM systems are incredibly stupid

By | January 13, 2012, 5:00am PST

Summary: I’m having a crisis of faith. I can’t stand contact managers. Whether you call them CRM systems or contact managers, they all seem to be stuck in the land time forgot.

I’m having a crisis of faith. I can’t stand contact managers. Whether you call them CRM systems or contact managers, they all seem to be stuck in the land time forgot. They’re incredibly inefficient, and no matter how hard I try to force myself to use them, I find I get busy and never bother to update my contacts.

When you have a piece of software designed to make you more productive, and you find you’re not using it when at your busiest, that’s a sign the software isn’t doing its job.

I have a long and sordid history with contact managers and CRM systems, going back way before the Internet. As a small business owner, I’ve had to make sales calls, cold calls, and manage a sales force.

Today, I don’t manage a sales team and I rarely make outbound sales calls. But I do have to coordinate a mind-boggling array of contacts, ranging from government officials to members of the press to PR people to vendor people to readers to authors to my clients, to my clients’ clients, and on and on and on.

Keeping track of all these people is non-trivial.

First, let me cover the whole CRM thing. I’ve used CRM systems and I even coded my own CRM system (in FileMaker) that my company used sometime in the 1990s. I’ve used ACT!, GoldMine, SugarCRM, Zoho CRM, as well as basic contact managers ranging from the Palm Desktop to Outlook. I haven’t used Salesforce, oddly enough because they tried to sell me too hard (and that ticked me off).

CRM systems are important when managing a team of sales people, but for individuals, they can be overkill. Even so, even for managing a team of sales people, today’s CRM systems are still trapped in the dark ages.

Every CRM system known to man organizes things based on accounts, contacts, leads, etc. An account is essentially a company and a contact is a person at the company. You can see all the people at the company by looking the account table for that company.

Doesn’t that seem so last century?

Today, we all know about the social graph when it comes to individuals, but there’s also something of a social graph (or relationship graph) when it comes to business.

Here’s a current example. I’m working with Adobe on a DIY-IT project to generate Kindle books. I need to keep track of the people who are Adobe employees, but I also need to keep track of the people who are working the Adobe account from Adobe’s PR firm. I also need to keep track of the outside experts Adobe pointed me to, who aren’t employed by Adobe but are part of this project.

The accounts and contacts paradigm fails completely with this relationship graph. I need to be able to assign a diverse group of people to a project or interest. Yes, there are categories, but it gets old when you have a set of categories for “PR people” and a set of categories for “prospective clients” and another set of categories for each project, like “Adobe Kindle project”.

Something more holistic is needed.

Next up, there’s the whole data entry problem. When I add a new to-do item to Toodledo, it takes 10-30 seconds. When I add a new appointment to Google Calendar, it takes 10-30 seconds. When I add a new contact to either Zoho CRM (my current CRM system) or Outlook (my mail client), it takes 3-5 minutes. That’s because you have to fill in all the fields, decide where everyone fits, categorize them, make sure there aren’t any dupes, and yada-yada-yada.

So, you know what I do? I just rely on the signature at the bottom of email, don’t add people to the CRM system or Outlook contacts, and just search my email every time I need to make a call or look someone up. I’ve also started to use LinkedIn, typing in the person’s name with the hope that his or her contact information is easily accessible.

These crude techniques work surprisingly well, but they don’t let me add metadata to an individual. For example, if someone gives me their cell phone number, that might not be on their email sig, and I might then have to create a contact (somewhere) for it. Or, you know, just forget.

What I want, honestly, is to just email a message to an address and have it automagically be entered into a database. Or just select some text and have that text automatically parsed, folded, and spindled, and sent to the appropriate record (with all the appropriate relationship information). I used to use a tool called eGrabber that kind of did this, but it was one more piece of software to add to my PC, and I stopped using it after a while. I also tried Xobni, which aggregates email contact information, but it was bloated and it, too, didn’t actually create clean contact records.

So, I rely on email searches to find contact information. There’s no structure because my time is more valuable to me than creating structure.

CRM systems also suffer from to-do-itis. They often have their own to-do items, which exist so you remember you’re supposed to call Paul back next week, because he expressed an interest in buying your widget. But, if you’re like me, you also have a to-do manager on your phone, in Outlook, in Google Calendar, and — if you’re like me and have a boatload of to-dos — you might have a dedicated to-do management tool like Toodledo.

With CRM, do you now need to check multiple to-dos? Sales to-dos are in the CRM system, while others are in the other systems. Sheesh. Plus, there’s always that newbie CRM-user tendency to schedule every raw lead as a to-do to make sure she knows who to try cold-calling. Within a week, there are so many to-dos that they’re subsequently ignored in perpetuity.

And then there’s sharing. CRM systems have multi-user versions, but none of them share as elegantly as Google Calendar does. I can choose to share a category in Google Calendar with people entirely outside my organization, and they can choose to share with me. The sharing in Google Calendar is, essentially, a web of calendar shares, and would be perfect for contacts or CRM systems.

For example, I don’t necessarily want my Adobe contacts to see the contacts at the other projects I’m working on, but I’d sure like to be able to let that small project cluster have a shared pool of contact information within that cluster. That way Jane can see that I already know Joan, but she can go ahead and add Andy, who I haven’t met yet.

Why don’t we have simple interchange formats for these things? Yes, I know there are a ton of standards, but there’s nothing that’s truly universal, truly simple, truly open, truly secure, and can function at the application API and web service level. Yes, we have the vCard format, but almost no one ever uses it. So, there’s a fail.

I know, in our increasingly appliance-centric model of computing, that bolting modules together seems far too complex. But when it comes to activities as fundamentally important to business as calendar, to-do, and contact management, we need interop between the components. We need simple bolt-together options. And, for all the tea in China, Salesforce needs to stop calling and calling and calling… and calling and calling, just because you asked one question of them.

If I were to prioritize, I’d say the single biggest thing contact manager providers could do to make me more productive is to remove the field entry requirement for contacts. Take an email message or a block of text, parse everything out, and do the work for me. Figure out what’s a phone number, what’s an email address, and so on, put that information in fields, and save me 3-5 minutes work per contact.

Make contact management happen automatically, seamlessly, effortlessly, and use all the information at our disposal. Use (if I give permission) all the information I maintain in my LinkedIn network, the information in my Sent Items folder, the information in my Facebook friends list, the information you can find by simple Google searches, and parse it all for me.

Look at it this way. Contact parsing is a far simpler computer science problem than natural language, and Siri seems to be doing a fairly adequate job of handling natural language. If we can make natural language systems that work as well as the one Apple built when I press the microphone button next the the keyboard on my iPhone 4S, we can certainly build something that can parse and categorize contact information.

Go forth. Build. All you smart folks out there want to do that next online start-up. Make me a good contact management solution. If you do, and if it really works, I promise to tell everyone all about it.

Go. Code. Now.

See also ZDNet’s Social CRM: CRM Watchlist 2012 - The Winners List

Update; Read the comments below. In most cases, they reinforce everything that’s wrong with the CRM mindset. One guy suggested I use his favorite CRM program, because it has its own email client. I don’t want to switch email clients. I have 20GB of history in my Exchange store and there’s no reason. Two people recommend “elbow grease,” as if it’s a virtue to waste time doing clerical work that can better be done by smart programming.

Others suggested I change my mind approach to fit the CRM program. And still others recommend one of their favorite fields because that’ll organize everything. No. No-no-no. Until there’s something that’s faster and more natural than searching old email messages, the problem isn’t solved. You can’t make the case that CRM or contact management is useful when the vote is for “elbow grease”.

I know CRM is big business, but it’s an obsolete dinosaur. Until the old thinking changes, it’s still crap.

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Topics

David Gewirtz, Distinguished Lecturer at CBS Interactive, is an author, U.S. policy advisor, and computer scientist. He is featured in The History Channel special The President's Book of Secrets.

Disclosure

David Gewirtz

At various times during his adult life, David has voted for both Democrats and Republicans, and has been disappointed by both. He is deeply disturbed by how partisanship has come before patriotism in America, which gives him the freedom to pick on both sides.

David is a frequent guest on TV and radio stations across America and can usually be heard or seen on-the-air at least once a week. He writes weekly commentary and analysis for CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 and has been interviewed by Fox News, CNN, various ABC and NBC affiliates, and Canada’s Global TV. He has been a featured guest on National Public Radio and has also been featured on Voice of America, Radio Free Europe, and Radio Liberty where his commentaries on technology, industry, and emerging nations have been broadcast into 46 countries (all in their own unique translations).

David is the executive director of U.S. Strategic Perspective Institute, a nonprofit research and policy organization. He is the Cyberterrorism Advisor for the International Association for Counterterrorism & Security Professionals, a columnist for The Journal of Counterterrorism and Homeland Security and a special contributor to Frontline Security Magazine. He is a member of the FBI’s InfraGard program, the security partnership between the FBI and industry. David is also a member of the U.S. Naval Institute and the National Defense Industrial Association, the leading defense industry association promoting national security.

David is an advisory board member for the Technical Communications and Management Certificate program at the University of California, Berkeley extension. He is also a member of the instructional faculty at the University of California, Berkeley extension.

David’s “day job” is as publisher and editor-in-chief of ZATZ publishing, an online publisher of technical magazines. Other than than his ownership stake in Component Enterprises, Inc. (the parent company of ZATZ), David has no additional industry investments.

ZATZ has many advertisers who do, in part, provide for David’s lush income and extravagant lifestyle. Most of them are IBM and Lotus aftermarket suppliers, some of them make goodies for Microsoft Outlook, and a few make all sorts of strange mobile devices and add-on products. David has been a regular judge of the IBM Awards, but has no formal financial interest in or with IBM.

Because the ZATZ online magazines often review products, David and ZATZ are sent an overwhelming stream of unsolicited, silly, and often useless products to review. Because they’re such a pain to track and ship back, these products often wind up in a dumpster or fill up the corner of a large closet. Although David has no plans to review products in connection to his ZDNet blog, if he does do a product review, he will disclose any relationship completely in that posting.

Both through ZATZ and independently, David derives a small income through various advertising and sales relationships with Amazon.com and Google. These are minor relationships and they will not impede his willingness or ability to chastise either company should they deserve it.

David has many other business relationships, but none of them relate to anything he covers in his ZDNet blog. David does have a bit of the sales-guy bug and if he’s not doing a sales deal with someone at least once a month, he goes through withdrawal. He has a number of consulting clients, but none of them relate to anything he covers for ZDNet (and if they ever do, he will either disclose that fact, or decline to write about them).

Back in the 1980s, David held the unusual title of “Godfather” at Apple. He has written and published 40 incredibly simplistic applications for Apple’s iPhone.

Although David is forbidden to disclose the terms of his iPhone developer agreement, he isn’t drinking the Apple Kool Aid, will never be confused with a metrosexual, and feels free to mock Apple, and Apple users, any time the occasion permits, on alternate Tuesdays, or if he’s bored.

Biography

David Gewirtz

In addition to hosting the ZDNet Government and ZDNet DIY-IT blogs, CBS Interactive's Distinguished Lecturer David Gewirtz is an author, U.S. policy advisor, and computer scientist. He is featured in The History Channel special The President's Book of Secrets, is one of America's foremost cyber-security experts, and is a top expert on saving and creating jobs. He is also director of the U.S. Strategic Perspective Institute as well as the founder of ZATZ Publishing.

David is a member of FBI InfraGard, the Cyberwarfare Advisor for the International Association for Counterterrorism & Security Professionals, a columnist for The Journal of Counterterrorism and Homeland Security, and has been a regular CNN contributor, and a guest commentator for the Nieman Watchdog of the Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard University. He is the author of Where Have All the Emails Gone?, the definitive study of email in the White House, as well as How To Save Jobs and The Flexible Enterprise, the classic book that served as a foundation for today's agile business movement.

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Search can work ...
fshagan 7th Apr
@fswarner, one reason I like Outlook is how fast the search function is within it (at least in versions 2007 and 2010; 2003 was pretty slow). Windows 7 also has a pretty fast disk-wide search function. The built in contacts function in your email client may be enough for you. I'm now recommending Michael Linenberger's "Total Workday Control" for email management to my clients with Outlook, and using the free Business Contact Manager (BCM) add-in for Outlook as a mini-CRM. It works nearly as well as any paid CRM. Its a bit easier to use because it lives within Outlook, so you can easily make an email sender into a contact, see all your emails to and from that person, etc. But alas, it does not populate fields as David rightly suggests a CRM should.

Like David, I have a very low opinion of CRM systems. Google "CRM adoption rate" or "CRM failures" and you'll find stats that from 40% to 70% of all CRM installations either fail or never "go live". That's a huge failure rate (in my experience at three small companies, and in helping several clients "pick up the pieces" after a consultant sold them on "buckling down and doing the work", the rate of non-adoption is 100%). CRM is a massive time sink for most people. And it's way too expensive for the small company.

Most CRM systems are a IT guy's solution to a management request to control the sales force. They enslave sales people rather than inspire them. They are, in the vernacular, a massive fail.
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Salesforce
pkstephens 13th Jan
Salesforce does all of what you're asking for. If you don't want to talk to them, try Etherios.com. If you have questions about Salesforce, I'd be happy to answer them and I promise I won't bug you further.
@pkstephens If salesforce.com can point at some Contact info, parse it and add it to the database please let us know how to do it! I'm not aware of that kind of functionality.
@devils_advocate
eGrabber has an addon called AddressGrabber that can parse any contact information from email, webpage or any document into a new salesforce.com record or dupcheck and add to the existing one if a match happens. David wrote above he used to use this product at one time. check out www.egrabber.com
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BatchBook - The Social CRM
Kurt Milam Updated - 13th Jan
I'd like to recommend that you take a look at BatchBook.

- Their "SuperTags" with custom fields make the system very customisable/extensible
- What you call "Projects", they call Deals. It's possible to associate any Contact or Company with any Deal - there's a single 'with' Contact or Company, a single 'Assigned To' User, and an unlimited list of 'Contacts associated with this Deal'
- You can take the above even further with a clever use of SuperTags
- BatchBook offers a private DropBox email address for each user - if you BCC emails to that address, they will be associated with the correct contact (or else a new contact will be created). You can even create TODOs by sending emails to your DropBox address
- They have a mobile version, as well as native IPhone and Android apps
- You can attach feeds to any Contact record to keep tabs on their activities on their blog, twitter and a number of other services
- Their "Affiliations" allow you to set up custom connections between Contacts and/or Companies

I've been using and recommending BatchBook for almost 2 years now. It's not perfect, but it has a set of features that, I believe, sets it apart from many of its competitors. Their support is friendly and quick, and their prices are reasonable, as well.
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Sales Force and other CRM vendors...
Sceptical Observer 13th Jan
All provide this service. IF (and it's an expensive IF) you pay them to do it for you. They don't want to give it up for free. Which is part of the reason the software is still in the age of the dinosaurs.
@Sceptical Observer Expensive is right! We have Saleforce here, the other problem is their support is not all that great and boy are the arrogant, need to work on customer service a weeee bit. We have very good and smart developers, takes a while for the support to figure that out. We had the same problem with Google, though they are getting MUCH better
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Agreed.
Cayble Updated - 16th Jan
@Sceptical Observer

But its also why software is KING...when it works.

I don't know what the outlook in business is today, but I would think not much has changed in the thinking that keeping recurring billing down is prime. All this cloud nonsense is just wonderful until you find out what it can cost. And the cost is in their hands and there is nothing to say that once you have been using a pay service of any kind for long enough and they have you by the short and curlies the cost increases can get painful and there may not be much good to be done about it.

It just goes to show you, if someone creates a great software solution there will be buyers.
I'll be the first to admit that CRM systems are a lot of work. Data integrity is an issue.

I also need to say the support team at Zoho, and the support forums were crap - but you get what you pay for, especially if you pay nothing for the service, and you're too lazy to figure some of the stuff out on your own.

But that being said, have you spent any time customizing your Zoho installation to suit your business needs? If you think that 3-5 minutes is a long time to enter in a contact, you should refine data input screens(which are all highly customizable) in such a manner to cut down the amount of information you need to enter.

How about a little less whining, and a little more elbow grease?
Dragon naturally speaking works pretty well with Outlook. That is the direction we should be going in. We naturally transmit the most information orally in the shortest amount of time.
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Salesforce is Annoying
NorrisBreeze 13th Jan
We filled out a form on Salesforce site. We never asked for a call, but they called 8 times. Makes them appear a little desperate I think.
@NorrisBreeze

Or thorough
SalesLogix offers the same functionality via Opportunities: you can associate multiple contacts from different accounts with a single opportunity.
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Wrong thinking
Matthew Hardy 13th Jan
> my time is more valuable to me than creating structure.

That's your problem. Change that attitude and any CRM will work for you.
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Typical response
duckdive@... 13th Jan
I have some of the same sentiments... as do most when it comes to CRM/contact management. So is the answer to abandon it? I would argue no. The unsatisfactory "fit" and burden of CRM/contact management is such a common sinking feeling. It reminds me of the "Excel vs. database" issue I run across so often. There is a critical mass when a single user/small group with some data finally outgrows the simple solution. And keep in mind that nearly every user has slightly different needs (like the many requirements of the author of this article). Growing pains are called pains for a reason.
Vote #2 for elbow grease.
I think what I am hearing is that the existing CRM systems are bloated when used by individuals, lack flexibility when used across different platforms, and really do not extend their functionality beyond sales (language such as "deals" and "opportunities" dominate) CRM systems need to be capable of quick capture of data, regardless of where the data is, and handle the full cycle of customer relationships...lead capture, lead development, contracting, delivery, post delivery and repeat business all in one seamless process.
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Nicely done.
Tom007 13th Jan
I really enjoyed this article. I've experience with many CRMs and contact managers, including Salesforce which we are using now, and trust me, contrary to what someone else commented, Salesforce does NOT do everything you have been asking for.

The industry seems to lack a strong visionary who can see the big picture and marshal resources to bring about a solution that fits the real world, rather than something we are supposed to alter the real world to fit. Instead we have companies trying to do it on the cheap, and companies on the "high end" piecing together acquisitions in an effort to make them appear like a holistic solution.

And everyone's efforts are being killed by their "lock in" obsession.

Once upon a time users could live in a "best of breed" world... your OS could be Microsoft, your spreadsheet Lotus, your word processor Wordpefect and your database dBase and they all coexisted in our lives. Now Google, Apple, Microsoft, Salesforce... even our cell phone companies want to lock us in to them so we cannot use any competing platform for anything -- from search to buying media to organizing our lives.

They've gone from trying to build a better mousetrap, to trying to keep the mouse trapped.
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PLAXO
jcorbitt 13th Jan
PLAXO seems to handle some of this, by handing-off the data input, and update to your contacts.
Automatically scrapes info right from the browser when using Gmail, LinkedIn, FB, Twitter: http://www.ecquire.com/
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Contributr
@desbarats81@... Looks cool. Shame it doesn't work with Outlook -- and equally a shame it seems to insist on working with Salesforce, Highrise, and not much else. This, too, is a problem with these tools -- because interop is limited, so are the choices of compatible systems.
I agree with David. I'm a sole practioner attorney. I've been looking for a good solution since IBM came out with the 8086. Act! is the best I've found, but each new edition gets worse. My current addition is no longer supported and I don't dear upgrade. I have over 2000 contacts and they are precious. I'm seriously considering just entering everything in word and employing a good indexing/search tool that would search everything on my hard drive. Anybody know of one?
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Search can work ...
fshagan 7th Apr
@fswarner, one reason I like Outlook is how fast the search function is within it (at least in versions 2007 and 2010; 2003 was pretty slow). Windows 7 also has a pretty fast disk-wide search function. The built in contacts function in your email client may be enough for you. I'm now recommending Michael Linenberger's "Total Workday Control" for email management to my clients with Outlook, and using the free Business Contact Manager (BCM) add-in for Outlook as a mini-CRM. It works nearly as well as any paid CRM. Its a bit easier to use because it lives within Outlook, so you can easily make an email sender into a contact, see all your emails to and from that person, etc. But alas, it does not populate fields as David rightly suggests a CRM should.

Like David, I have a very low opinion of CRM systems. Google "CRM adoption rate" or "CRM failures" and you'll find stats that from 40% to 70% of all CRM installations either fail or never "go live". That's a huge failure rate (in my experience at three small companies, and in helping several clients "pick up the pieces" after a consultant sold them on "buckling down and doing the work", the rate of non-adoption is 100%). CRM is a massive time sink for most people. And it's way too expensive for the small company.

Most CRM systems are a IT guy's solution to a management request to control the sales force. They enslave sales people rather than inspire them. They are, in the vernacular, a massive fail.
I agree David - CRMs make my fingers hurt, and I've been at them as long as you have. One bright spot (though I haven't used it yet) is Evernote's card scanning, image reading, content parsing thing that for now only runs on iOS. Heck - for that matter scanning and parsing business cards has been around a very long time. It makes no sense that if it's possible to pull data from scanned images, why extracting from email, web sites, and any other type of text isn't simply part of the data entry model for any system that wants to 'help' with your contacts.
Outlook 2010 with social connector will add your LinkedIn contacts into a seperate contact list with data from their account including their phono.
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First... You say... "truly universal, truly simple, truly open, truly secure,". Of course, that is impossible. Pick two and ONLY two: Cheap, Convenient, Secure.

Second... You are not a CRM guy. Admit it. The failing is not the CRM methodology. Rather, you just don't like screwing around with pre-defined arrays. You built your own at one time and don't even like that. You need an intelligent flat relational database, which sort of doesn't exist yet for the regular person. I read about a couple of brothers who were developing a new type of searchable database that worked more like the brain. Maybe that is what you need... Or just improve your memory so you don't need the tools on the computer at all. Of course, that won't help if you need to do a mail merge.

Third... Get a secretary.
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But it IS the methodology
VBJackson 17th Jan
@notme403@...
I have worked with CRM products for years, and I have to agree with the author that the problem lies deeper than the implementation, that it is a fundamental failure of the methodology.
Yes, CRM was ORIGINALLY designed for the most part to meet the needs of sales persons to keep track of client contacts. And I will agree that if your sales methodology and client base hasn't changed much since the 1980s then the only thing wrong with most CRM system is the amount of work required to keep them up to date.

If, on the other hand, you are NOT doing B-to-B sales, if you need contact management for something BESIDES sales, then I have to admit that I haven't found anything that is effective.
It isn't just that all of the CRM systems that I have checked out insist on using an organization chart heirachy, and couch everything in terms of making a sale, although I will admit that I do find that wearing.
The thing that bothers me most, and that seems to be one of the root problems that the author is pointing out is a basic lack of flexability in the underlaying process.

Look at the basic assumption that the CRM system make - that the person IS part of an organization.
What if you work directly with customers? What if you have a MIXTURE of business contacts and direct contacts? What if, God forbid, you have to work with contacts that are in both a businesses and individual groups?

Now, I am a programmer, and I don't have a solution. I wish I did, as I could probably make a fortune if I could code a product to handle this.
But unless people look beyond what we have, we will never get to the next stage.
The best CRM I used until now is my Android phone. With the People icon, using contacts from different sources like Facebook, Exchange or any other mail you configure like GMail, linking all together and using categories.

Though it might be missing on the "this contact works on this project but not part of that organization" part of your request, but overall the best I've seen so far.

I don't know if that kind of interaction can be achieved on desktop systems like Outlook (maybe with the social connector someone mentioned above).
Great article!
I would add that the basic problem with ALL CRM and related software is that they are built in a database which necessarily focuses software design on making the database work and then of course trying (futilely) to make using it simple for the user.
But especially the Sales process and similarly, most business projects are complex and amorphous in nature (not logical - how things go are more often not predictable) and more time dependent than contact or company oriented (at least in actions). CRM???s database drop downs, ???Force Fields??? and the like are kryptonite to business thinking. Interrupting the persons thought process; forcing the users to ???think logically??? IS incredibly counterproductive. It actually stops an individual from doing the most important thing they can do ??? THINK.
So what automation could empower the productive process? What would enhance individual and group productivity?
Allow one to begin by entering Appointment and ToDos into a calendar, setting reminders and prioritizing as needed. Enter contacts as you make them or copy same from your email or other programs. As process; connections and order reveal themselves in due course, create a new view pulling in relevant information from data you???ve entered so far. If things change, create new views that make sense to you without having to reenter data. Create a Gant chart to view complex flows and processes.
Now we got the horse back before the cart. You just do your job, the software just helps you run your day immediately and when order shows up, the software just enables you to use what you have entered already, to help you organize and prioritize your work. In contrast, CRM and Contact managers ??? really all software with a database foundation (design with the wrong emphasis) kill thoughtfulness, force ones thinking to just logical and categorizing first, versus first helping the individual prioritize and organize their tasks and appointments, which is what they need to do.
This functionality in software already exists and many are still using it even though development stopped in 1997. Those who have been around may remember when Microsoft killed the PIM Category (probably not on purpose) by giving away Outlook. Anyway, EccoPro does what is described above and much more. Its foundation is also a database but the ???input??? is highly flexible and customization is both intuitive and very powerful. Remarkably, even though development stopped, it has got even more stable with new OS???s and I am using it now on Win 7 64bit. The code was for sale for very cheap but several including Microsoft failed to realize its potential.
A clever CRM vendor, especially behind in competition, could snatch this up and quickly, finally, give the marketplace something useful.
Just hire a secretary
a DIY secretary won't do, TRUST ME !
0 Votes
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SugarCRM
crooklynd95 13th Jan
Everything can be handled directly through SugarCRM, particularly this:

"What I want, honestly, is to just email a message to an address and have it automagically be entered into a database."

In regards to relating different companies and contacts to specific projects, you have to take time to create custom modules, or custom fields for "company types" eg "Vendor" "supplier" "Pr company" "Marketing company" etc. and then you can relate those to projects and so forth. It honestly sounds like you don't want to put in the necessary work to customize your CRM. Every company is different, that why, out-of-the-box CRM's won't work for any specific company (entirely). YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO SPEND TIME CUSTOMIZING. PERIOD.
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Contributr
@crooklynd95 Oh, I put the time in with SugarCRM. In fact, if you dig through the SugarCRM boards, you'll see some of my comments. My beef with SugarCRM was they wouldn't sell a commercial license for less than five users. I would have bought it. Instead, I was stuck with the community version and when it tried to do an update and failed (notice a theme here), it would no longer function. That's when I switched to Zoho.
@David Gewirtz
The sad truth is that CRMs are best when the information needs to be shared across users. If you are just one user, it is really hard to justify a CRM.

Still, if you are selling a product, it is hard to beat the benefits of a CRM, even for a one-man-shop. The trick, as you have pointed out, is that you need one that does most of the work.

As for the constant calls from Salesforce.com, the bottom line is that persistence works. There have been countless studies regarding the effectiveness of the follow-up call.

Paul Rony
SplendidCRM Software, Inc.
"As for the constant calls from Salesforce.com, the bottom line is that persistence works. There have been countless studies regarding the effectiveness of the follow-up call."

This is why merely following statistics blindly is harmful. They never tell the whole story.

Persistence is good overall, but that doesn't negate the need for some common sense on when persistence becomes annoyance. Statistics simply are not a replacement for common sense.
I agree with you 100% ... even the part about the hard sale from SalesForce
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Xobni for Outlook
jefferyshall 13th Jan
I was going to suggest this until you said you tried it already. I don't have any issues with it and couldn't live without it to find email and attachments that people have sent me and it puts all the contact info in each persons head, along with linkedIn, Facebook, twitter links too if they have them. Not sure what you didn't like about it.
David, I don't see any references to Microsoft Dynamics CRM, so I'll venture out and mention it. I don't work for Microsoft, but do have experience with the product on a daily basis, both as a user as well as an admin, reports dev, etc. As I read your article, I kept saying to myself, "MS CRM does that... it does that... it does that...". If you haven't yet, check it out. In terms of ease of input, complex relationships, and other things you seem to need, I think the product does what you want and need. Just sayin'...
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@chago2009

I was acutally quite surprised to see that David's post made no mention of MS Dynamics CRM, either. It's definitely not a panacea, but like you, I was reading some of his wants, and thinking to myself "you know, I do that right now".
Nice article. Not often that someone who has actually used a boat load of CRM's writes about their pitfalls. I've stayed away from the whole area because my time is valuable and if you need to specially train staff to do it then it's too complicated. Portability is a particular bug bear. What happens to data when you abandon a system? Yes we do need portability. Cloud applications might finally achieve this.
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Code it yourself and become rich!

Oh, I forgot - you're already rich.
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My issues with CRM's accord with yours. So if you aren't running a sales team, don't need to plan & manage campaigns, but require something that easily stores and displays multiple relationships that people have with each other and multiple organizations as well as possibly the nature of the relationship then consider TheBrain. Sounds a bit off the wall for this app, but works like a charm and easy for say 300-400 contacts across 3 or 4 relationships.
I used to work for a company that implemented a Siebel OnDemand CRM system while I was there. The learning curve was horrendous. I wasn't privy to the overall results, but I don't doubt that sales that first year were off significantly due to that f'ing system. Just an abomination of a piece of software. It was sold to us as a quick, easy way to update our customer contacts and prep for the next days' meetings. Chyeah, right. It didn't change a thing. It cost several million dollars and it was just a complete mess. I cannot believe that C-level execs still think these things are useful.
My only suggestion, David, is KISS. Keep it simple.

Problem with Email signatures is there's no standardization. And nobody uses vCard.

"Contact parsing is a far simpler computer science problem than natural language"

Still not trivial, though sad. And probably much harder than we think it is, once you start getting into edge cases.
Have you tried @Nimble yet? (http://www.nimble.com) It does link and import your contacts from Facebook, Google+, Linkedin, Twitter etc so all those updates (and self completed elements) in those social programs are brought across for you - no retyping.

It'll also help you to monitor and update the social sites as well - so much more than the likes of Hootsuite & Tweetdeck. It's a startup organization thats getting tranaction so the core contact management or #SCRM is there and works well. But there's also a bunch of features coming out shortly happy

Trial is free so signup and give it ago happy

Kind Regards,
Richard Young.
Contact parsing..?I think that is an interesting and very much possible thing to do.
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I Agree 100%
gellenb 14th Jan
I agree with you 100%. I've never found anything that fully serves my needs. Let me add one more thought. Just taking the simple contacts and getting them to sync between Thunderbird, Google and the Blackberry has been nothing short of a nightmare.
..you actually have to build a business process and enter data into the thing to make it useful.. Until you understand that nothing is just going to "automagically" read your mind and build metadata "from a signature" for you, you're not going to be a happy camper.

Unfortunately, your attitude is extremely prevalent within the CRM user world (arguably, this is also the case with ERP and SCM systems as well).

It's not very hard to imagine why CRM projects have the highest failure rate of all of them, given you have enough experience in the real IT world to know better.
@daftkey - you are describing exactly the cart-before-the-horse methodology that the CRM industry has tried to force on the client and esp the users for years. This hubris precisely explains the terrible failure rate you mention and the focus of this article. Good design should not need Chuck! See my post above on same.
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Cart before the horse?
daftkey 17th Jan
@ePractical

You mean your rant above where you talk about using a Gant(sp) chart to "to view complex flows and processes?"

I agree (and my "hubris" was the sound of me agreeing) that CRM systems are difficult at times, and they require a lot of thought in their implementation. I also agree that many users *hate* CRM systems because they are inflexible. Unfortunately, it isn't just because they were developed in the 70's that they suffer from this inflexibility. CRM is more than a PIM, and it's more than a contact manager. Unfortunately, people who don't see further than what GoldMine or ACT can do don't understand this (not coincidentally, these are the same users that deride larger ERP systems because they're not as flexible as Quickbooks).

These systems are based on a database because the other 90% of the value they provide is for the business, for forecasting sales and revenue, analyzing marketing efforts for the company as a whole, reconciling to the accounting and service systems, just to name a few things that mean nothing to the salespeople, but make the expense of such a system worthwhile for the business.

As for the "Chuck Norris" comment - well, this just comes from the "hubris" of people who assume that "good software design" means build a system that will do everything for you without you having to do anything for yourself.
I totally agree. It is amazing that the CRM and contact managers haven't attempted to add parsing to their input. While I don't have a specific recommendation for your problem. I think I may have a possible lead. Many of the job boards now include the ability to parse a resume and extract the basic facts (i.e. name, address, phone and email address) from it. I don't know what software they are using to accomplish this but, this is where I would start my search.
I agree completely. I use Inflow Inventory for EVERYTHING books related, my gmail and google calender for everything else, the rest is off to the accountant! and if i'm happy, my clients are too.
Sage CRM is customizable to the nth degree and thus affords one with the ability to address your spefic needs. Arrange a viewing by contacting CRM Systems Group at
http://www.crmsystemsgroup.

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