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David Gewirtz

Three ugly, middle-aged men argue about Windows 8

By | February 13, 2012, 5:11am PST

Summary: You will have the unparalleled and unprecedented opportunity to watch us pontificate on the future of Windows 8. Bring popcorn. There will be fireworks.

It just doesn’t get any better than this. Tune in on Wednesday for a video webcast where I, fellow ZDNet blogger Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols, and CBS Interactive Managing Editor Josh Gingold “discuss” Windows 8 and whether anyone cares.

Yes, we will be on video. You will have the unparalleled and unprecedented opportunity to watch two bearded pundits pontificate on the future of Windows 8 while the facial-hair free Josh tries to impose some degree of order and decorum on the proceedings.

Date: Wednesday, February 15, 2012
Time: 4:00 pm ET / 1:00 pm PT / 21:00 GMT
Register: Windows 8 Showdown

So, how did it all come to this? Well, mostly because we’re bloggers, we’re opinionated, and we tend to disagree on topics relating to Windows and Linux.

[For the record, Windows 7 crashed right here, while I was writing this article. 20 minutes later, I'm back up and running. Sigh.]

Last week, Steven wrote Five reasons why Windows 8 is DOA. His premise is all desktop operating systems are becoming less relevant with the rise of cloud computing and tablets. Windows 8 will be a comparative failure, ala Vista, as die-hard Microsoft users stick with XP and 7.

I had to respond, saying Why Windows 8 matters for real work, and so will Windows 9. My contention is we’re going to need real computers, the future of Mac OS X is in question, Linux (and the Linux community) is too flaky, and so that leaves Windows.

Can you see now why sparks will fly during our webcast?

So mark your calendars and tune in. CBS Interactive is putting on this beard-fest at no charge to you. All you need to do is fire up that popcorn popper, add a little oil, some fresh kernels, some salt, butter, and seasoning. Then take that fresh popcorn, pop yourself in front of your monitor, and tune in for the fun.

Reserve your virtual seat!
Windows 8 showdown: Face-off on whether Windows still matters

Save some popcorn for me.

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Topics

David Gewirtz, Distinguished Lecturer at CBS Interactive, is an author, U.S. policy advisor, and computer scientist. He is featured in The History Channel special The President's Book of Secrets.

Disclosure

David Gewirtz

At various times during his adult life, David has voted for both Democrats and Republicans, and has been disappointed by both. He is deeply disturbed by how partisanship has come before patriotism in America, which gives him the freedom to pick on both sides.

David is a frequent guest on TV and radio stations across America and can usually be heard or seen on-the-air at least once a week. He writes weekly commentary and analysis for CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 and has been interviewed by Fox News, CNN, various ABC and NBC affiliates, and Canada’s Global TV. He has been a featured guest on National Public Radio and has also been featured on Voice of America, Radio Free Europe, and Radio Liberty where his commentaries on technology, industry, and emerging nations have been broadcast into 46 countries (all in their own unique translations).

David is the executive director of U.S. Strategic Perspective Institute, a nonprofit research and policy organization. He is the Cyberterrorism Advisor for the International Association for Counterterrorism & Security Professionals, a columnist for The Journal of Counterterrorism and Homeland Security and a special contributor to Frontline Security Magazine. He is a member of the FBI’s InfraGard program, the security partnership between the FBI and industry. David is also a member of the U.S. Naval Institute and the National Defense Industrial Association, the leading defense industry association promoting national security.

David is an advisory board member for the Technical Communications and Management Certificate program at the University of California, Berkeley extension. He is also a member of the instructional faculty at the University of California, Berkeley extension.

David’s “day job” is as publisher and editor-in-chief of ZATZ publishing, an online publisher of technical magazines. Other than than his ownership stake in Component Enterprises, Inc. (the parent company of ZATZ), David has no additional industry investments.

ZATZ has many advertisers who do, in part, provide for David’s lush income and extravagant lifestyle. Most of them are IBM and Lotus aftermarket suppliers, some of them make goodies for Microsoft Outlook, and a few make all sorts of strange mobile devices and add-on products. David has been a regular judge of the IBM Awards, but has no formal financial interest in or with IBM.

Because the ZATZ online magazines often review products, David and ZATZ are sent an overwhelming stream of unsolicited, silly, and often useless products to review. Because they’re such a pain to track and ship back, these products often wind up in a dumpster or fill up the corner of a large closet. Although David has no plans to review products in connection to his ZDNet blog, if he does do a product review, he will disclose any relationship completely in that posting.

Both through ZATZ and independently, David derives a small income through various advertising and sales relationships with Amazon.com and Google. These are minor relationships and they will not impede his willingness or ability to chastise either company should they deserve it.

David has many other business relationships, but none of them relate to anything he covers in his ZDNet blog. David does have a bit of the sales-guy bug and if he’s not doing a sales deal with someone at least once a month, he goes through withdrawal. He has a number of consulting clients, but none of them relate to anything he covers for ZDNet (and if they ever do, he will either disclose that fact, or decline to write about them).

Back in the 1980s, David held the unusual title of “Godfather” at Apple. He has written and published 40 incredibly simplistic applications for Apple’s iPhone.

Although David is forbidden to disclose the terms of his iPhone developer agreement, he isn’t drinking the Apple Kool Aid, will never be confused with a metrosexual, and feels free to mock Apple, and Apple users, any time the occasion permits, on alternate Tuesdays, or if he’s bored.

Biography

David Gewirtz

In addition to hosting the ZDNet Government and ZDNet DIY-IT blogs, CBS Interactive's Distinguished Lecturer David Gewirtz is an author, U.S. policy advisor, and computer scientist. He is featured in The History Channel special The President's Book of Secrets, is one of America's foremost cyber-security experts, and is a top expert on saving and creating jobs. He is also director of the U.S. Strategic Perspective Institute as well as the founder of ZATZ Publishing.

David is a member of FBI InfraGard, the Cyberwarfare Advisor for the International Association for Counterterrorism & Security Professionals, a columnist for The Journal of Counterterrorism and Homeland Security, and has been a regular CNN contributor, and a guest commentator for the Nieman Watchdog of the Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard University. He is the author of Where Have All the Emails Gone?, the definitive study of email in the White House, as well as How To Save Jobs and The Flexible Enterprise, the classic book that served as a foundation for today's agile business movement.

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I think the
thx-1138_@... 18th Feb
... new, PC term for ugly is "cosmetically challenged".

Just sayin'

wink
Are both of you going to debate inside a steel cage?
What I think "some" bloggers have a problem with is Facts. It is fine to have an opinion on something as long as you can back it up with facts. Unfortunately "some" bloggers neglect the facts, distort the facts, or downright lie to try and support their opinion.
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TRUE!
rahbm 17th Feb
@bobiroc
Those bloggers make it tedious to have to wade through their rantings to find those few posts where something intelligent is contributed.

It is interesting that the most egregious examples, and the greatest volume, come from the NBM fanatics who, for some obscure reason, have convinced themselves that everything Microsoft is perfect, and everything from anyone else is rubbish.

Of course, if that were really the case, there would be no arguments here!
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Ah, the "real work" ploy. That won't fly...

When a developer uses QtCreate on Windows it is "real work" but when the same developer uses QtCreate on Linux it is not? I used to use MS Visual Studio BEFORE I tried QtCreate. I got MORE work done using QtCreate & Qt because I could develop source under Linux at least twice as fast as under Windows, then move it to Windows for compiling and deployment to Windows servers. Same source, same tool, two platforms. That's working real.

When I write a document on Linux using LibreOffice the skill sets required are the same as writing that document in LibreOffice on Windows.

Those who claim they can only do "real work" on Windows are using "special" definitions of "real work" that deliberately define it to exclude Linux, a self-serving and self-deluding ploy, to say the least.
@GreyGeek77 You obviously have no clue about anything computer related. I bought me a copy of Micr0$uck$ Visual Studio so now I'm a certified professional engineer and know what I'm talking about. With the Micr0$uck$ LoseDoze Operating System (O/S) you can install the internet and browse the web and point and click and cut and paste and multitask and do all of the things that are so DIFFICULT if not outright IMPOSSIBLE to do on your Linux machines.
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This is one of the things I disliked most about this site is when bloggers bicker amongst themselves. I'd rather you guys report tech news.
@Loverock Davidson- Here, here! I couldn't agree more!

Facts are important. And informed opinions can be useful. But arguing about preferences as though they were facts ... pretending opinions are facts ... it's utterly useless.

When I purchase tech, I don't give one rat's behind what the person living next to me is using, as long as what they have suits them and what I have suits me. All this pointless bickering is beyond childish ... it's a deliberate choice on the part of editors to put the click attracting power of empty bickering (fights always attract a crowd) above providing useful information and insight into technology and how to fit various available options with the differing needs, wants and preferences of users.
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Now THAT was funny!
rahbm 17th Feb
@Loverock Davidson-
"...one of the things I disliked most about this site is when bloggers bicker amongst themselves."

Absolutely priceless, coming from YOU, one of the worst perpetrators!
Will there be any nudity ?
@herbstanfield

Dear God I hope not!
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@PollyProteus: Come, come! Ugly middle-aged men can be irresistible to many women if their "wallet" is big enough...
"the future of Mac OS X is in question"

HUH?
@bobjones2007

Don't you know that it is the cool thing to do for bloggers is to predict the death of certain technologies and companies. Their predictions are less accurate than weathermen predict the weather. Essentially don't believe it until it happens.
to the old men windows is doa and windows 9 if like windows 8 will be doa
@jt59,
That was stated very eloquently.
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Windows is definitely important for real work no matter how much mobile grows, so I agree with that. However from what I have read about Windows 8 it seems Microsoft doesn't know this. Seems to me they are trying to go after the mobile market 100% and giving the desktop the middle finger. For this reason I see Windows 8 as a huge failure, but Windows will live on, the question is will anybody ever upgrade past Windows 7, and from what I have seen so far I think the answer is NO. Of course after MS sees what a total failure Win 8 is they will reboot and start focusing on what matters again so maybe Win 9 will be the next true upgrade.
@RAK5 I will upgrade to Windows 8, so looks like the answer is actually yes, even though it is no for you. Microsoft has finally decided to make Windows a very modular architecture that will work across all platforms (x86/x64/ARM, for Desktop/Tablet/Phone/&other device). They didn't give desktop the middle finger, they gave tablets and phones the power of the desktop and brought an improved touch UI to the desktop. Just because the developer preview was for designing touch apps, doesn't mean that they are removing desktop capabilities.
@grayknight You plan to hold your arms out to control your "touch" desktop monitor? Will tablets be running CADD or transcoding video for days at a time? I'd prefer to keep a real desktop on my desktop. Save "modular" for the cell phones and devices with mini-screens. Can't see running a cell phone OS on my computer.
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what was the crash!
SonicLogic Updated - 13th Feb
The 0x0? is the key might shed some light on dodgy ram hdd...
you say your computer crashed
I only ever get crashes when doing some extreme overclocking I really cant believe your computer crashed while writing text for a blog... And right now i overclocked my Ram 200 mhz and my FX-6100 to 4.8ghz with 8 usb devices 1 firewire audio interface and composing a track with multiple plugins in cakewalk sonar crash free with just air cooling.... So really your crash is probably hardware or RTFM related... not windows... If windows 7 was unstable trust me it would be happening to me right now and ive had this setup for months now.
@SonicLogic Did Mr. Gewirtz state that Windows was at fault for his crash? I don't remember reading that. But for the record, I have three computers in my home dual boot either Windows or Linux and I see Windows crashing 10 times more often than Linux. Add to that the reason for a Linux crash is almost always related to the desktop (either KDE or Gnome) rather than the OS. I don't recall a single instance of Linux crashing my machine when I was in the OS with no desktop.
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Why SJVN?
bmonsterman 13th Feb
He writes for the Linux blog. Shouldn't he be writing about Linux?
@bmonsterman

And when he does and sticks to the facts it is often some good writing and information. That is if he can keep his Microsoft Hatred out of the blog and stick to the subject.
When MSFT does what Apple had the guts to do years ago (completely rewrite the OS, get rid of the legacy ball&chain, hitch to UNIX), then perhaps there will be a future for Windows.
Hi,

Hmmm. What is with this? Mac OSX/iOS and Windows futures seem pretty similar. BOth have the goal to try and knit together an OS that can run skinny or fat. Allow "extra Facebook happiness" to the masses on their phones and high-end animation, compositing and music for film (my favorite heavyweight kinda app).

I would rather hear about how BOTH of these players will start dropping time-honored features and UX to chase consumerism. As an observer on Mac, iOS has disrupted what was once a pretty nailed-down experience with some "whacky stuff". Not all of us like faux leather and page turning in our work. :^0!

And yes, Linux is here too, but let's agree that if digital is being consumerized than users will not see "linux" but they might see a Google or Sony Operating system (that is REALLY Linux underneath ;^>).
@SonicLogic Did Mr. Gewirtz state that Windows was at fault for his crash? I don't remember reading that. But for the record, I have three computers in my home dual boot either Windows or Linux and I see Windows crashing 10 times more often than Linux. Add to that the reason for a Linux crash is almost always related to the desktop (either KDE or Gnome) rather than the OS. I don't recall a single instance of Linux crashing my machine when I was in the OS with no desktop.
@purevw@...
What does all of that have to do with Windows 8?
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I have been using Windows 8 for a while now and have a fair idea what it is. Bottom line is that it is the same as Windows 7 with an added interface designed for tablets. When someone puts Windows 8 into a decent tablet, it will become popular, providing a real alternative to the iPad. But for those of us who use desktops for real work, there will be little reason to go to Windows 8 and we'll stay with Windows 7. Sound familiar? Ask all those who still use Windows XP.

What no one seems to be mentioning what will happen when a Windows 8 tablet becomes a practical reality. What is the status of Apple vs. Windows today? Answer: 90% of people use Windows based machines. What will be the status when people have a choice between an iPad and Windows 8 table, both of which will are reliable and will do the job well, and the Windows table costs less (as windows PC have always cost less than Apples). I suspect the answer is that about 90% of the people will go with Windows 8. Wont be overnight, but it will happen. There are too many people who hate Apple, and too many who are familiar with Windows OS.

I think that a few years down the road, the whole tablet field will look a lot different than it does today. The desktop field, which will still be healthy and productive, will be relatively unchanged, with no big switch to Windows 8.

My 4.5 cents worth (inflation, you know ).
Well as a not so ugly middle aged man who has worked on everything from MVS/TSO and VM/CMS to OSX (10.7.3), I don't really think anything, I use the tools available for what I have. Right now I have a Mac Mini running Lion, it does everything I want it to.
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windows 8, windows phone
oneillwfx 13th Feb
listening to bon iver, commercial free, high quality through zune. thanks microsoft. btw, love the metro interface, if apple or google put this ui out their fanboys would be doing cartwheels. thanks microsoft, i'm excited to take the xbox, pc, windows phone, zune music ecosystem to the next level.
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@oneillwfx I love metro too, however, there are ALOT of things that need to be tweaked in the new XBOX dashboard. Everywhere else is simply marvelous!
@oneillwfx
OK, so we get that you are a dyed-in-the-wool Microsoft fanatic. Big deal.
Did you have a useful contribution to make?
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Will the webcast require Flash or HTML5?
VintageComputerGuy 14th Feb
I will not be able to watch from a PC (not at desk), but would like to watch from my Windows Phone.
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Staff
@VintageComputerGuy You're in luck. We're using a webcast platform that should be compatible with your phone. Just click on the same link once you've registered.
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Staff
@herbstanfield I promise, no nudity (hope that's what you wanted to hear;-). Appreciate all of the other comments as well and hoping you're willing to share them during the live webcast and group chat. All opinions are welcome. Wait, nothing bad about me, okay?
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RE: Three ugly, middle-aged men argue about Windows 8
griswald.goulton@... Updated - 14th Feb
Here in Australia most new computers come with a Windows OEM, which means we don't get to keep what might be our favourite OS but are forced to take on the latest MS offering. Imagine what it must have been like to need a new machine and have to suffer Vista, as I did, and did the same on my laptop copped against my needs Windows 7, before you retorts are posted, remember activation?? think about it.
M$ will have sales while ever we suckers in OZ buy new machines,
we take the easy way out, my answer was to get an Android phone and do everything on line with it. My laptop doesn't get much work these days.
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I think the
thx-1138_@... 18th Feb
... new, PC term for ugly is "cosmetically challenged".

Just sayin'

wink

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