ZDNet Education

Christopher Dawson

Apple XServe is gone - Is OS X Server next?

By | November 5, 2010, 10:51am PDT

Summary: If Apple is willing to turn its back on the XServe, will it also turn its back on OS X Server, which, surprisingly, represents a high-value, easy to use tool for schools?

Apple announced today that it would no longer be producing its XServe rack-mounted server products after January 31st, 2011. It provided detailed recommendations (PDF) for customers looking to either transition from XServes or deploy new OS X Server hardware. However, one has to wonder if this approach signals the beginning of the end for OS X Server itself as the company continues to ramp up its consumer/pro-sumer product portfolio.

So why do I care? Regular readers will know that I love my MacBook Pro, but I’m not entirely convinced of the Mac value proposition in education. The XServe, though, and the server OS that it ran (OS X Server) were somewhat unique in that they provided high-performance directory, communications, and collaboration software in an easy-to-use package that, as servers and their licensing tend to go (at least on the Windows side of the proverbial server room), were relatively inexpensive.

In fact, managing a network with the built-in tools on OS X Server is remarkably easy. Managing the Macs on the network is similarly straight-forward, with a typically Mac-ish user interface. Especially in K-12, where onsite tech expertise or direct support is often difficult to find and fund, OS X Server represents a platform that a relatively savvy teacher can use to keep a network and all of the deployed Mac clients running smoothly. File sharing, directory services, and user policies are all a few clicks away.

At the same time, that same savvy teacher could easily run wikis, websites, mail, and podcast capture/publishing for the school, again with built-in graphical tools.

While its true that both Windows and Linux offer powerful and robust solutions for schools, all of which can include graphical tools, OS X Server is particularly intuitive and the licensing (unlimited clients - period) certainly can’t be matched by the variety of Windows CALs. Obviously Linux licensing is a piece of cake (free - period), client management and media interactivity just aren’t as easy. Not by a long shot.

Apple has not said that it is abandoning OS X Server, only the rack-mounted hardware. Users can still purchase Snow Leopard Server pre-installed on Mac Pros (for high-performance needs) or Mac Minis (for small workgroups or specific tasks like file sharing or wiki hosting). However, shoehorning a server OS onto non-server hardware that needs to reside under a desk or on shelves in a datacenter hardly strikes me as a vote of confidence in Apple’s server business.

Rather, it says that Apple is a consumer company whose products will probably make their way into schools and businesses because consumers love them. Perhaps those big datacenters that Apple is building out will end up hosting cloud-based versions of OS X Server or providing similar services from the cloud. However, OS X Server is one of the highest value tools for schools that Apple currently offers and its ease of use and client management helps offset cost concerns associated with those Mac clients that people love so much.

Here’s hoping that the death of XServe doesn’t mean the death of OS X Server. I’m not taking any bets, though. Unfortunately, over and over, Apple has demonstrated that it can crank out great, popular products that teachers and students (and countless other consumers) fawn over, but rarely provides the education-centric solutions on which it built its reputation. Hey, Steve! If you’re listening, any chance you could make sure OS X Server lives on? And not just in Mac Minis? Thanks.

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Topics

Chris Dawson is a freelance writer and consultant with years of experience in educational technology and web-based systems. In 2011, he became the Vice President of Marketing for WizIQ, Inc., a virtual classroom and learning network SaaS provider.

Disclosure

Christopher Dawson

Christopher Dawson is the Vice President of Marketing for WizIQ, Inc., by day and a freelance writer and educational technology consultant by night. Well, most of his colleagues at WizIQ are based in India, so really he's working with them whenever he can stay awake. He has worked for his local school district as a teacher and technology director, for the Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health, and for Biogen, Inc. (now Biogen-IDEC, Inc.). He has also consulted with STATNet and Cytyc Corporation and retains close ties with X2 Development Corporation (now owned by Follett Software, the supplier of the student information system he administered for several years). Follett is paying him a monthly honorarium to act as a presenter for their "SIS Voices for Student Achievement" community (he produces occasional blog posts and hosts a monthly webinar on the use of student information systems to inform data-driven instruction and school-wide change. He regularly purchases and/or recommends Dell hardware. This is because Dell makes good hardware and has truly committed itself to education in innovative ways, particularly with their "Connected Classroom" initiative. It isn't because he has dealings with the company through his role at WizIQ (which he does) or because they have provided him with long-term loans of a variety of equipment for in-depth testing (which they have). Intel (reference designer for the Classmate PCs he has implemented in his local schools) has provided him with long-term loans of Classmate PCs for testing, as have Dell and Lenovo with their educational offerings. He may report on any of these companies as his experiences with them have direct bearing on educational technology; positive reports are not necessarily an endorsement and he receives no direct financial compensation from these companies or any others. Intel paid all expenses for his attendance at the 2009 Intel Classmate PC Ecosystem Summit which he attended as the sole representative of the technology press. He was invited to attend in 2010 but his wife would have killed him if he spent 3 days in Vegas geeking out and left her home alone with a new baby. Acer provided him with a 50% discount on an Aspire One netbook in early 2009 after he tested it for 30 days through their educational seed program. He liked the netbook at the time but it has since broken and sits unused in his office. Canonical sent him Ubuntu lanyards, t-shirts, and mousepads for his kids. He stole one of the lanyards and proudly hangs his keys from it and occasionally features his 8-year old wearing an oversized Ubuntu t-shirt on his Facebook profile. Gunnar Optiks sent him a pair of computer glasses to evaluate for a holiday gift guide. He is wearing them now as he types this because they never asked for them back and they rock out loud. Seriously - they work brilliantly and make it much easier to spend 20 hours a day staring at an LCD. If they ever asked for them back, he would fork over the $99 and buy a pair. Microsoft gave him 2 free copies of Office 2010 professional, a desktop clock, and a useless book on Office 2010 when he attended the launch of Office/Sharepoint 2010. He occasionally uses the SharePoint lanyard they gave him instead of the Ubuntu lanyard for his keys, but feels dirty afterwards. Adobe provided him with a pre-release version of the CS5 Master Collection for evaluation and ultimately provided a full, licensed copy for ongoing testing of educational applications of this admittedly expensive software. Like the Gunnars, if the license expires or they come out with CS6, he'd actually go out and buy it himself. Which is saying something, because he's actually pretty cheap. Any other companies wishing to send him cool things to evaluate, wear, or otherwise adorn his kids are more than welcome to; he promises to disclose it here if he keeps any of the stuff. Finally, because WizIQ is a virtual classroom and learning network provider, Chris, as VP of Marketing, frequently interacts with, seeks out deals with, and directly or indirectly competes with a whole lot of LMS, SIS, and other Education 2.0 companies. In general, he'll limit his reporting about these companies to news that does not impact his relationship with them or with WizIQ. If he reports on them, it's because what they are doing is newsworthy or worth the attention of his readers and not because he's trying to broker some deal, damage competition, or otherwise advance his position in his day job. LMS and SIS companies, along with other online learning communities, are a pretty important part of Ed Tech. If he stops reporting on them completely, there won't be a whole lot left. He'll be sure to call out any overt conflicts of interest if they are unavoidable. Finally, Follett Software Company pays him a little tiny honorarium every month to present on their SIS Voices webinars and to write the occasional blog or discussion thread for them. Since Follett recently bought X2 (maker of an awesome web-based SIS that Chris just happened to have used, served in advisory groups for, and frequently reported on), this is probably also worth disclosing.

Biography

Christopher Dawson

Christopher Dawson grew up in Seattle, back in the days of pre-antitrust Microsoft, coffeeshops owned by something other than Starbucks, and really loud, inarticulate music. He escaped to the right coast in the early 90's and received a degree in Information Systems from Johns Hopkins University. While there, he began a career in health and educational information systems, with a focus on clinical trials and related statistical programming and database modeling. This focus led him to several positions at Johns Hopkins, a couple-year stint in private industry, teaching high school math and technology, and 2 years as the technology director for his local school district. Most recently, he started his own consulting business and is now the Vice President of Marketing for WizIQ, Inc., a virtual classroom and learning network provider. He lives with his wife, five kids (yes, 5), 2 dogs, and a hateful cat in a small town in north-central Massachusetts. Although he is no longer teaching, his roles with WizIQ and ZDNet allow him to continue helping students and teachers add value to education with technology rather than merely adding to the bottom line.
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RE: Apple XServe is gone - Is OS X Server next?
goalong 26th Jan 2011
@gotpaint32 said: "Have you ever checked out Microsoft's technet documentation library. It is available for everybody to scrutinize. Almost every thing you wanted to know and did not want to know is readily available for you to see."

Except maybe for this: sp_MSforeachtable

Of course Microsoft Never has undocumented features in their production code like the 3rd key in ADVAPI.DLL, or the metafile backdoor "undocumented feature".

Unless you believe past performance does not indicate future results wink
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RE: Apple XServe is gone - Is OS X Server next?
I12BPhil Updated - 5th Nov 2010
I'm fine with them abandoning the hardware. The internal RAID 5 card always had battery problems and I've already switched 2 of our main file servers from an Xserve to a Pro. Its better in most respects. More hard drives, easier to service, but they have to sit vertical in the rack. I've added multiple eSATA cards for external RAIDS and have a slot or two let over. The major thing they need to address in the hardware monitor working with non Xserve hardware. They need to keep the OS X server software going because there's just so much unbelievable power built into it. Seriously, there's features that Apple isn't even allowed to tell you about, but if you do your research you'll find that is has just as much power or more than even a Windows Domain has. Sure, it has simple tools to make things easier for non IT to set up and use, but there are components that aren't visible unless you know what to start turning on. The command line extends the power even farther. Its a real shame IT isn't delving more into its hidden power. Without question, they need to keep it!

That being said, our X-san has been chugging along quite nicely for two years still running two Xserves as the PMDC and BMDC.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
NonZealot 5th Nov 2010
@I12BPhil
Seriously, there's features that Apple isn't even allowed to tell you about, but if you do your research you'll find that is has just as much power or more than even a Windows Domain has.

Wow, thanks for the joke of the day!!!

Our product is so much better than the competition's but we've signed an NDA with ourselves so we can't tell you about how much better our product is until you buy it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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RE: Apple XServe is gone - Is OS X Server next?
I12BPhil Updated - 5th Nov 2010
@NonZealot I thought it was just trolling at first, but you sincerely, honestly, really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?!

Let me give you an example: In the workgroup manager, I can open a file that has a list of high end operations that isn't in any Apple manual, but allows control over a network profile's home folder, synchronization, file permissions on the client machine's own files, cache redirection and folder redirection, hidden files and folders, media connections and their permissions including write and read to media permission and much more. None of which is in any standard documentation. If you call Apple tech support and ask for help with those functions you'll pay a premium support fee. However you can find Apple user groups who know all about these commands, scripts, and how to use them

Its the same thing Microsoft support does for their higher end functions.

You really are a complete moron. I'd bet you don't even know that on a mac you can drag a folder into the command line and it will paste in the complete path.
Trolling again Zealot. You must not have a day job!
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@Phil: Oh this just gets better!
NonZealot 5th Nov 2010
None of which is in any standard documentation.

So what you are saying is that Apple's documentation sucks but that if you were to call Apple support, they'll gladly charge you premium support fees in order to tell you things that they should have put into the manual?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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@NonZealot No, NoClue. Read my post to the other guy who chimed in. You'll never still get it, though, because you have never ever used it.
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@I12BPhil
I'm replying to the reply you wrote to nonzealot.

First things first, there is not a chance in hell that Apple's open directory is more functional than Windows AD. (every single feature you mentioned has an equivalent in the Windows world)

Second and probably the most important, have you ever thought to ask why in the world Apple is extorting you to get relatively straightforward information on a product you already paid for?

I can understand when Linux distributors charge you for support, they're not really charging you for the software. But why am I paying the mac tax and paying for the software if the depth of documentation they provide is equivalent to me poking around the software for 15 minutes. If I wanted to rely on forums and a billion support calls I would be running a linux distro, not paying a supposed enterprise vendor.

Have you ever checked out Microsoft's technet documentation library. It is available for everybody to scrutinize. Almost every thing you wanted to know and did not want to know is readily available for you to see.

My position is simple, people should not have to pay extra (for advanced support) or rely on unreliable user forums to understand how to use these supposedly built in functions of the software. Until Apple gets out of this mindset, they should not play in the enterprise arena. Good riddance.
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RE: Apple XServe is gone - Is OS X Server next?
I12BPhil Updated - 5th Nov 2010
@gotpaint32 Well, then you're another person in the Windows world who has no experience with Apple, just like NoClue. For the record, I handle both and have for 13+ years. I know the Widows AD system and I know OD. Do they do similar things? Yes. Are there some things in AD that aren't in OD? Yes. Are there things in OD that are not in AD? Absolutely!

Apple's stance, and you can confirm this by talking with them, is that there are features in the OS that are put in there for Apple to use and test, some left over from BSD and NeXT, but some features that are their own that are not official released features. They do not offer support for features that are not official release features.
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@gotpaint32 Wow! I tried to post a response that told you exactly what and why and it got flagged. Way to shut down an argument you have no chance of winning.
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RE: Apple XServe is gone - Is OS X Server next?
gotpaint32 Updated - 5th Nov 2010
@I12BPhil

I have actually had the displeasure of working with mac servers. And I have spoken with them numerous time regarding various issues. Their support essentially boils down to this. If you have their basic support level any troubleshooting or configuration that digs into the console is essentially a la carte and cash out of ur pocket.

I also find it incredible that in one paragraph you are extolling the virtues of the product (with its oh so many abilities) then in another start drawing lines in the sand by separating official released features vs unofficial features. I want to run OSX not a BSD remnant that happens to be on OSX Server.

OSX Server is a COTS product and it should act like one. Windows has tons of unsupported hacks, hell anyone with any modicum of coding ability can pretty much do anything they want via command line on a windows box using powershell but I wouldn't consider aftermarket "hacking" to be a product feature.

Please don't confuse the issue. Look I get it you are an awesome mac admin and thats good for you. But I'm not buying you, I'm buying the osx software so either its a feature or its not. You can't say the product has a billion features but then have the manufacture say it only support ten. When I check out of the apple store I expect ALL my features to be supported, end of story.

Like many that post here, I value my livelihood and choose to avoid running systems in my charge in unsupported grey areas because if stuff hits the fan, then its on me, not on apple. What you do is your business.


BTW: I didn't flag your argument, I would actually welcome it. Though it is insulting that you think I would resort to such tactics. Clearly you need an attitude adjustment.
@gotpaint32

Since Mac OS X is based on UNIX it is enterprise ready by definition. Anyone interested in open solutions which are easy to set up will see the value of OS X Server. The documentation is available to anyone with access to the internet.

Mac OS X Server is great solution. Your wishing riddance to something that isn't a problem and which you obviously know nothing about reveals your ignorance and fear.
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actually...
banned from zdnet 7th Nov 2010
@gotpaint32
... you are not paying for the software (unlike for windows server). mac os x server comes free with your apple hardware (free as in linux free with no cost for the server os or the clients, which are unlimited). so apple does support the os of course and you have to pay for extended support but there are a lot of hidden features that you have to get to on your own (lots of them legacy next os features, not very well documented and not officially supported).

but anyone paying happily thousands of dollares for the windows server and client tax is probably lost on any value proposition.
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@gotpaint32
>>>If I wanted to rely on forums and a billion support calls I would be running a linux distro,

our experiences obviously differ. Sometimes I will get stuck running Linux, but it usually requires that one question needs to be answered to break the logjam. I have rarely gotten stuck, though, but when I have I had a solution in hand within a couple of hours after posting to usenet. Linux has every bit the power of Xserve, and some would say more. Both are good products and both have their proponents.
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@gotpaint32 Very true. If you cannot provide proper documentation on your software then you shouldn't be claiming its something it isn't. Apple doesn't seem to understand this, as their whole business model is based on telling people that their products are something that they aren't. I guess they do the same in enterprise. You pay more for the same stuff, then pay more again just to use it. Thats why I run linux servers, there is plenty of documentation out there if you know how to search for it. The software is open so we can modify it as we need and once you know it, you can do everything yourself without support.
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@banned on zdnet ROFL nice troll. It comes free with your super overpriced hardware? O man thats a really sick deal. You know windows is free too right? Like Linux Free. It comes for FREE on any computer you buy other than a MAC.
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@I12BPhil
sorry mate but there is no use of comparing mac OX server or Xserve to a Windows Server Environment or linux because " if you want to compare it to older systems NT i might say yes you have point"
reasons:

1. Xserve / OS X Server lacks of enterprise features and small business features , basically i cant use a OSX server in my organization because nothing will work on it .. not mentioning migrating plans to OSX sucks.

2. Xserver / OS X Server lacks of IT Administrative tools , in windows and linux you will find a lot of tools by Microsoft and / or thousands of companies

3. Xserve / OS Server for sure doesn't support most of the enterprise infrastructures so you are limited to apples system requirements , while most of the hardware and hardware technology works pretty awesome with windows and linux and bsd's

4.mixed networks ( linux windows bsd clients ) works okay between Xserve and other OSes but its trashy, a freebsd with no gui can do more in a mixed network that the Xserve

5. OSX server will never be a good product for SB and ENT unless if the OS X desktops share jumps really really high at this point you will see a different OSX server that might beat windows server and linux and bsd

im not saying its not a good product " no its good for its purpose " but its another apple toy to add it to OSX and ipods and ipads family to hook up all these stuff together in classy way.
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1. What are these features you speak of?
2. What tools are you talking about?
3. What do you mean by enterprise infrastructure?
4. What does trashy mean?
5. What are you babbling about?
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IT doofus
banned from zdnet 7th Nov 2010
@zkiwi

don't be so harsh on alshawwa@. just another microsoft certificated IT doofus who knows nothing about other solutions (only the thousands of dollares redmond tax server products) that we have come to know and love here on zdnet.
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@alshawwa@... agree totally and can say I am across all the platforms....
too many amateurs commenting on stuff here way above there real level of comprehension for my liking...
I am sick of MAC zealots pushing the MAC line just as much as I am sick of the MS zealots pushing the MS line....and throw in Linux etc. here too...
The reality is...understand the real requirements and promote the right tool for the right application.....
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@alshawwa@... i dont see OSX server ever beating linux and BSD. OSX is based on BSD. Linux is developed by many large companies for the sole purpose of being a server. it is basically a toy to hookup other toys. But OSX server is great for making hackintoshes. Although why you would want one, I cant say.
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@zkiwi@
i am babbling about burgers.
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@I12BPhil are you serious about "drag a folder into the command line and it will paste in the complete path" as demostration of the "unbelievable power"?
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Undocumented but available - bad news?
cquirke Updated - 9th Nov 2010
@I12BPhil

"Apple's stance, and you can confirm this by talking with them, is that there are features in the OS that are put in there for Apple to use and test, some left over from BSD and NeXT, but some features that are their own that are not official released features. They do not offer support for features that are not official release features."

Security by obscurity? How are you supposed to protect against automation of "features" you weren't even aware of? If the platform gets the attention of the malware industries, this could be really bad news.

If you code it, you document and maintain it, period.
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@I12BPhil But you can't really rack up the mac pros without installing a shelf, and then the hardware still doesn't screw into your rack... Plus you end up wasting density. A mac pro is what 4U on a shelf vs. 1U.

Plus if you're looking at colo 4U is really expensive when compared to 1U and the tower isnt' available with redundant power supplies.
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Smart move by Apple
NonZealot 5th Nov 2010
It was very clear that xserve hardware wasn't the least bit competitive when compared to the competition. They'll never get rid of OS X server since it is nothing more than a name change (take an OS X Snow Leopard box and crayon in the word "S3rver") and it lets the fanboys claim that Apple has an enterprise product. Keeping it around is worth it just for the marketing, even if they only sell a handful of copies.
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RE: Apple XServe is gone - Is OS X Server next?
I12BPhil Updated - 5th Nov 2010
@NonZealot I'd be more than happy to give you a demonstration if you're ever in my area. I'd love to show you just how clueless you are. You really have no idea who you're dealing with.

Put your money where your mouth is. I bet you can't!
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You're talking to a janitor
GoPower 5th Nov 2010
Mops and buckets he know, he fills buckets every day here at zdnet with his swill.

@I12BPhil
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@I12BPhil,
It will be nice to see a demo, for example, of Mac OS X virtualization roles, as Windows with Hyper-V and Remote Destkop Services, or the equivalent of Mac OS of Group Policy and Direct Access. Plus the availability of 4 and 8 sockets of Apple servers, as HP and IBM have.
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@I12BPhil
You are terrible. Really.

From a 17 year IT pro with a wealth of experience in all environments and technologies, enterprise to small business, Mac to Linux to MS.

You are terrible.
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@Droid101

Why talk about your years of experience? Why not instead include some substantive argument? I know people who have years of experience...and still no clue. I'm not saying you are one of those people, but I don't really know do I? Let your arguments speak for themselves on their own merit.
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no 2 troll
banned from zdnet 7th Nov 2010
@I12BPhil
please don't hit on our Matthew McConaughey loving androide (look a alittle closer at his cute little picture) . he is the no 2 troll here and he loves it!
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@I12BPhil No Idea who hes talking to? Obviously your a fanboy obsessed with a crappy ripoff of BSD on a locked down platform with subpar hardware. Nothing more, and hopefully nothing less.
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sometimes ...
banned from zdnet 7th Nov 2010
@NonZealot
... you border on being reasonable, but clearly not today.
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A4 mini blade system with iOSS
s_souche 5th Nov 2010
apple TV like A4 blade running a cloud version of IOS Server is the future....
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That isn't true. I, for one, liked the Xserve -- the power vs. form factor, the reliability, the overall operation... it was unbeatable. That said, I've run OS X server on many towers, from G3s to Mac Pros, and it runs fine on them, too. The new Mac Mini server, for its intended purpose, is great. But like the article's author, the move makes me worry. Apple's server products have, with the Xserve and former Xserve RAID, been excellent. Snow Leopard Server is excellent. But what now? Is the commitment there? Education is one facet, but Apple needs to realize that many businesses in the graphic arts industry, law firms and others use OS X server: It's easy, affordable and rock-solid. Unfortunately, Apple's always been wishy-washy about infrastructure-type stuff. I realize they make a boatload off consumer/prosumer stuff like the iPad and iPhone, but Apple needs to realize that those pro users stuck with them through the hard times, evangelizing and using Power Macs and so forth. If they lose that "pro" side (whether server or Aperture or Final Cut Pro), they risk the dedicated pro market -- and that market, though smaller, is likely a lot more stable than the consumer market.
That seems like it would be a pretty smart solution.

Once again, however, Apple gives some of their most loyal customers the middle finger. I would never, ever, ever, count on Apple products for mission-critical tasks. They have way too long a history of discontinuing "legacy" products long before the users have stopped using them.
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@roystonlodge

Um, WHAT?!? Their "long history" is exactly the opposite. Would you be so kind as to offer up a few examples of this so called "history."
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form factor
banned from zdnet 7th Nov 2010
@roystonlodge
they abandon the rack form factor for their server products so they probably don't intent to play in the server room anymore (they hardly ever have). but they extended their small and midsize business server solution (mac mini server) with the mac pro server. how is this "discontinuing" anything? you now have two server hardware solutions from apple when there only was one until 2009. if anything, i would argue they are increasing their server efforts or at least fine tuning them to their intended niches (education, small and midsize businesses).
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I do wonder...
zkiwi 5th Nov 2010
Does anyone who blogs at zdnet ever do anything like talk to someone, investigate, check out their stories, ever?

Because it sure doesn't seem like it.
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@zkiwi Its OK, neither do their readers. Just look at NonClueboy.
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@I12BPhil
You're the worst poster I've ever seen on ZDNet. And that, truly, is saying a lot.
  • Flagged
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Come on...
zkiwi 5th Nov 2010
No one can top Loverock and NonZealot as the absolute worst posters on zdnet or anywhere else.

Unless you're bucking for their spot, which you might well be.
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Worst poster?
DeusXMachina 5th Nov 2010
@Droid101

As an avid Linux supporter, with numerous machines running various distros, I can easily say that you are working hard to claim that title
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Hopefully, SL Server Opens up to HP Servers
rtrujillo@... 5th Nov 2010
If this happens, then you know what I'll be buying.
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No.
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Its really becoming very transparent that NonZealot possesses no real knowledge of OS X (and probably no real knowledge of even Windows among other things) and its capabilities because he flags posts that call him out for being ignorant.
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Funny you should say that
NonZealot 5th Nov 2010
@I12BPhil
First, let me reassure you that I have not flagged any of your posts.

Second, I don't think anyone else has because as I scan through the list of comments, I don't see a single flagged post. Keep in mind that ZDNet's talkback software is... how do I put this kindly... about as buggy as OS X. And most of those bugs seem to revolve around edited posts being flagged but only by the client script of the editor. Refresh the page and I think you'll see what I see: no flagged posts.

Finally, my posts get flagged far more often than yours. I guess that means that Apple zealots have no real knowledge of anything because they flag my posts that call them out for being ignorant. happy
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Oh yeah, one final thing
NonZealot Updated - 5th Nov 2010
@I12BPhil
ZDNet used to delete non spam posts that were flagged for violating their posted code of conduct but they stopped doing that a long time ago. Currently, there are no negative effects of having your post flagged since it won't be deleted unless it is spam of the most obvious nature.

I've had people call me a fvcking idiot and wanting to rape my mother, I've flagged those posts, and they were never deleted. I stopped flagging non-spam posts after that. It simply wasn't worth my time.
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@NonZealot
And since flagging was never for that purpose, why would you think it would? Oh, I forgot, you don't have a clue.
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@DeludedX
NonZealot 5th Nov 2010
And since flagging was never for that purpose

ZDNet used to be very good about deleting offensive posts so if flagging was never for that purpose, I guess you should have told ZDNet for that. While you are at it, perhaps you could get them to remove all the radio button options on the window that pops up when you click on the Flag link. Especially the Offensive and Off-Topic ones. You should tell ZDNet that flagging was never for that purpose because I guess you know better than ZDNet does what their policies are. Then you should ask them to remove all the text behind this link:
http://cbsitou.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1320/
Read the Acceptable Use section and tell them that they don't need it any more. After all, flagging was never meant to flag posts that violated ZDNet's acceptable use policies. After all, you know best.

happy happy happy
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@gotpaint32 said: "Have you ever checked out Microsoft's technet documentation library. It is available for everybody to scrutinize. Almost every thing you wanted to know and did not want to know is readily available for you to see."

Except maybe for this: sp_MSforeachtable

Of course Microsoft Never has undocumented features in their production code like the 3rd key in ADVAPI.DLL, or the metafile backdoor "undocumented feature".

Unless you believe past performance does not indicate future results wink

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