ZDNet Education

Christopher Dawson

Is it time to start thinking refurbished?

By | March 18, 2010, 9:28pm PDT

For a long time, I stopped accepting donated computers. They were costing me too much money and time in upkeep, maintenance, and disposal. When you have nothing else, then donations will do. When you finally convince people that reasonable technology integration actually requires a budget and a bit of money starts to flow, it often makes more sense to lease (or sometimes buy) new equipment and avoid the management headaches.

After all, computers have a reasonable life span of 3 years of hard use in a school before things start to go really wrong. A 3-year lease keeps things running smoothly and ensures that you always have a budget line that can be dedicated to technology.

However, this wonderful thing called the Internet means that so much of what we do no longer requires the horsepower of the newest, high-end computers, especially if you’re using Windows 7 or most Linux distributions. If anything, RAM, reasonable HD video capabilities, and a stable OS are more important now than a particularly speedy processor. Obviously it depends upon the tasks, but the vast majority of educational needs can be served either with thin clients or inexpensive desktops with middle-of-the-road dual core processors, 4GB of RAM (2 will do), HD-capable onboard video (or a low-end discreet card), and a good 64-bit OS (even that last item is optional, but is probably worth the small amount of future-proofing it provides).

Even if you go for a decent 18.5″ wide-screen LCD (I just got a few of these, by the way since they seem to be at a real sweet spot on the price/screen real estate ratio), a TigerDirect kit will only set you back a few hundred dollars. New Tier 1 machines with these specs can be had for $5-600, including Windows 7 Professional.

So that’s great, right? Except what if you need to go even lower in terms of price? Are refurbished PCs and servers a better deal? While the lifespan of a computer running in a dusty kid-infested school is often only 3-4 years, many corporations refresh their clients every 2-3 years. These machines tend to live in air-conditioned office buildings and be maintained regularly by IT staff. When they come off lease, refurbishers buy them at very low cost, swap out broken or damaged parts, make upgrades as needed, and then resell them, often to schools or small businesses.

The question is, with their generally included warranties and options to purchase without an OS at reduced cost (often not possible with Tier 1 vendors offering systems on a government contract), do refurbished machines represent a better value than low-end/mid-range new desktops or barebones kits? How about refurbished servers or laptops?

A look at the Compucycle website suggests that there are some decent deals to be had on desktops and laptops, especially if you are looking for alternatives to netbook deployments. However, by the time you upgrade the RAM in many of the machines and add a monitor, you aren’t far from a barebones kit at TigerDirect or NewEgg. That barebones kit, by the way, will include better graphics capabilities, a 64-bit capable processor (worth considering if you’re planning to hang onto the machines for a few years), and a chance to have students help build and deploy a lab.

A better case might, in fact, be made for refurbished servers. Insight Systems Exchange, for example, is offering a refurbished dual quad-core Xeon with 2TB of storage and 8GB of RAM for just over $3000. That’s enough processing power to drive a decent-sized LTSP implementation, or VDI in a 15-seat lab without breaking a sweat. Web applications, databases, and the like would move right along on this kind of equipment as well and it’s certainly a bit more challenging (and expensive) to build a 2-slot server. Servers also tend to have longer lifespans than desktops and laptops and often spend their first lives in a climate-controlled datacenter.

So what’s the bottom line here? Computers are cheap these days. Netbooks can make 1:1 happen cheaply as well, although durability is certainly a concern. Thin clients are really cheap, but the servers that drive them can get pricey. Moore’s Law has brought us to the point where refurbished machines from a trusted vendor are as worthy of consideration as DIY computer kits, netbooks, and inexpensive new PCs. All represent a compromise, but if the goal is to get as close to 1:1 as we can for the lowest possible cost, then we shouldn’t rule any of them out. 2-3 year leases on high-end desktops and Adamo laptops aren’t going to happen in most educational settings; given that reality, we compromise.

The one area where refurbished machines represent less of a compromise is in the server market. Servers are made to be relatively long-term workhorses and most schools aren’t running high-end datacenters. Server purchase options should definitely include a visit to the Dell Outlet or other resellers of refurbished machines.

Talk back below — Have you had good experiences with refurbs?

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Chris Dawson is a freelance writer and consultant with years of experience in educational technology and web-based systems. In 2011, he became the Vice President of Marketing for WizIQ, Inc., a virtual classroom and learning network SaaS provider.

Disclosure

Christopher Dawson

Christopher Dawson is the Vice President of Marketing for WizIQ, Inc., by day and a freelance writer and educational technology consultant by night. Well, most of his colleagues at WizIQ are based in India, so really he's working with them whenever he can stay awake. He has worked for his local school district as a teacher and technology director, for the Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health, and for Biogen, Inc. (now Biogen-IDEC, Inc.). He has also consulted with STATNet and Cytyc Corporation and retains close ties with X2 Development Corporation (now owned by Follett Software, the supplier of the student information system he administered for several years). Follett is paying him a monthly honorarium to act as a presenter for their "SIS Voices for Student Achievement" community (he produces occasional blog posts and hosts a monthly webinar on the use of student information systems to inform data-driven instruction and school-wide change. He regularly purchases and/or recommends Dell hardware. This is because Dell makes good hardware and has truly committed itself to education in innovative ways, particularly with their "Connected Classroom" initiative. It isn't because he has dealings with the company through his role at WizIQ (which he does) or because they have provided him with long-term loans of a variety of equipment for in-depth testing (which they have). Intel (reference designer for the Classmate PCs he has implemented in his local schools) has provided him with long-term loans of Classmate PCs for testing, as have Dell and Lenovo with their educational offerings. He may report on any of these companies as his experiences with them have direct bearing on educational technology; positive reports are not necessarily an endorsement and he receives no direct financial compensation from these companies or any others. Intel paid all expenses for his attendance at the 2009 Intel Classmate PC Ecosystem Summit which he attended as the sole representative of the technology press. He was invited to attend in 2010 but his wife would have killed him if he spent 3 days in Vegas geeking out and left her home alone with a new baby. Acer provided him with a 50% discount on an Aspire One netbook in early 2009 after he tested it for 30 days through their educational seed program. He liked the netbook at the time but it has since broken and sits unused in his office. Canonical sent him Ubuntu lanyards, t-shirts, and mousepads for his kids. He stole one of the lanyards and proudly hangs his keys from it and occasionally features his 8-year old wearing an oversized Ubuntu t-shirt on his Facebook profile. Gunnar Optiks sent him a pair of computer glasses to evaluate for a holiday gift guide. He is wearing them now as he types this because they never asked for them back and they rock out loud. Seriously - they work brilliantly and make it much easier to spend 20 hours a day staring at an LCD. If they ever asked for them back, he would fork over the $99 and buy a pair. Microsoft gave him 2 free copies of Office 2010 professional, a desktop clock, and a useless book on Office 2010 when he attended the launch of Office/Sharepoint 2010. He occasionally uses the SharePoint lanyard they gave him instead of the Ubuntu lanyard for his keys, but feels dirty afterwards. Adobe provided him with a pre-release version of the CS5 Master Collection for evaluation and ultimately provided a full, licensed copy for ongoing testing of educational applications of this admittedly expensive software. Like the Gunnars, if the license expires or they come out with CS6, he'd actually go out and buy it himself. Which is saying something, because he's actually pretty cheap. Any other companies wishing to send him cool things to evaluate, wear, or otherwise adorn his kids are more than welcome to; he promises to disclose it here if he keeps any of the stuff. Finally, because WizIQ is a virtual classroom and learning network provider, Chris, as VP of Marketing, frequently interacts with, seeks out deals with, and directly or indirectly competes with a whole lot of LMS, SIS, and other Education 2.0 companies. In general, he'll limit his reporting about these companies to news that does not impact his relationship with them or with WizIQ. If he reports on them, it's because what they are doing is newsworthy or worth the attention of his readers and not because he's trying to broker some deal, damage competition, or otherwise advance his position in his day job. LMS and SIS companies, along with other online learning communities, are a pretty important part of Ed Tech. If he stops reporting on them completely, there won't be a whole lot left. He'll be sure to call out any overt conflicts of interest if they are unavoidable. Finally, Follett Software Company pays him a little tiny honorarium every month to present on their SIS Voices webinars and to write the occasional blog or discussion thread for them. Since Follett recently bought X2 (maker of an awesome web-based SIS that Chris just happened to have used, served in advisory groups for, and frequently reported on), this is probably also worth disclosing.

Biography

Christopher Dawson

Christopher Dawson grew up in Seattle, back in the days of pre-antitrust Microsoft, coffeeshops owned by something other than Starbucks, and really loud, inarticulate music. He escaped to the right coast in the early 90's and received a degree in Information Systems from Johns Hopkins University. While there, he began a career in health and educational information systems, with a focus on clinical trials and related statistical programming and database modeling. This focus led him to several positions at Johns Hopkins, a couple-year stint in private industry, teaching high school math and technology, and 2 years as the technology director for his local school district. Most recently, he started his own consulting business and is now the Vice President of Marketing for WizIQ, Inc., a virtual classroom and learning network provider. He lives with his wife, five kids (yes, 5), 2 dogs, and a hateful cat in a small town in north-central Massachusetts. Although he is no longer teaching, his roles with WizIQ and ZDNet allow him to continue helping students and teachers add value to education with technology rather than merely adding to the bottom line.

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RE: Is it time to start thinking refurbished?
yarinsiz Updated - 17th Apr 2011
Well done! Thank you very much for professional templates and community edition
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0 Votes
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Refurbished means better QA
wackoae 18th Mar 2010
A lot of people are too stupid to realize that a refurbished product means that it was actually verified by quality.

Contrary to popular believe, only 1 out of 1000 products assembled is actually verified in full by quality. And that is if they actually do any quality control.

When an item is refurbished or remanufactured, that item actually gets a lot more quality checks than the single out of a thousand. The new parts are heavily tested and the working parts get retested (for real) to avoid returns for additional defects. On top of that, in most cases you get the same warranty as a brand new item.

So next time you find an item in NewEgg, TigerDirect/CompUSA at a decent price but with the refurbished tag, don't be stupid and take advantage of the deal.
0 Votes
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Have to agree
NetAdmin1178 19th Mar 2010
Buying refurbished products (using some sense - buying quality/mfg. refurbed products that have gotten decent reviews) has gotten me some really decent quality items for a fraction of the price. Examples - ~$300 HP Officejet MFC Printer for $130, ~$1000 Canon HD Camcorder for $400...

I do make sure I send in warranty info and get the products registered just in case; but of the items that come to mind right now, I've yet to have a problem with any of them - been very pleased.
0 Votes
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By law the warranty is valid regardless of whether
or not you register. Registration is simply a
means for the company to collect data on you.
That's why registering Windows is not required;
they cannot legally force you to give them any
information.
0 Votes
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Take Note of the Warranty Info, Though
WarhavenSC 19th Mar 2010
Before you jump on that deal, make sure you check out the warranty info. Companies will often have a more limited or shorter warranty length for their respiffied products. Just FYI.
0 Votes
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I JUST had this conversation...
ReadWryt (error) 19th Mar 2010
Friend of mine was asking about what kind of computer he could get in the $700 range for playing poker online...I told him that if he gave me the $700 I would get him more than enough refurbished machine to run 8 games in two monitors if I could pocket the leftover cash. Refurbished machines, not just computers, have always been a tremendous deal in my mind. Any time you get s PERSON to stick their job on the line to make certain something works instead of trusting that a bunch of machines have a statistical failure rate of a certain amount you are coming out ahead...
0 Votes
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refurbished
Cyrorm 19th Mar 2010
It all depends on who does the "refurbishing" My company bought approx. 400 refurbished systems of which we had a over 10% failure rate in the first 50 we set-up, due to either bad RAM or bad HDD, something that should have been checked before the PC ever went out the door. Just because it's refurbished doesn't mean the company did anything more than vacuum out the dust and send it on its way. Always make sure you get refurbished from a reputable company.
0 Votes
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I've been going refurb for a few years now. I have bought a
couple laptops from Ebay (currently being used to send this
response), and also from TigerDirect. The key for me has
been getting a manufacturer refurb, buying an extended
warranty if available, and staying with quality brand names
and models that were well reviewed. So far (knock circuit
boards), I have done well. A Gateway 11 inch netbook, an HP
dv7 laptop, and I'm all set.
0 Votes
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Not worth it
pjotr123 19th Mar 2010
For professional use, you need maximal reliability for the longest possible period. This can only be achieved with new hardware. The price difference with refurbished machines has become so small, that the initial cost factor is negligible.

Of course this only applies when you restrict your buying of new equipment to the very bottom of the market: the cheapest machines with preferably an outdated Windows version preinstalled (fine PC's with Vista can be had extremely cheap now).

Load a modern Linux on them (dual boot, for the sake of the warranty) and you're ready! Brand-new stuff, long warranty period, running smoothly on a state-of-the-art operating system. That should make any systems administrator happy. happy
0 Votes
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Thanks for mentioning CompuCycle, Christopher! We're constantly working to get higher specs in our machines to avoid the need for upgrades at all. Our online store doesn't give 3-year warranty prices or RAM upgrade prices, but we tend to think the pricing structures on those are pretty reasonable. We have been offering 5-year warranties to schools lately, as well.
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Ubiquitous computing should be the real goal. While I understand the simplicity of 1:1, what is really needed is enough computers that each student can access what they need when they need it.

That includes maybe a 1:4 ratio in the school, with 5-10 thin clients in each classroom depending on class size and age. Having them on articulating arms or fold out desks along the wall saves valuable real estate. Dual purpose network and power stations located throughout a room have value too.

More interesting would be a "bring your own computer" (BYOC) program. A progressive stipend could allow students to purchase their own hardware for use at home and school. A similar progressive stipend could be provided for broadband access at home. Combined with a private cloud based course management system and virtual desktop infrastructure the school's learning environment could be significantly expanded.

Let's do the math. A 1000 student school trying 1:1 will spend at least $500 per computer. That's $500K that doesn't include server infrastructure and support costs. Even with a five year life cycle you are spending $100K a year. Thin clients and leasing can reduce some of the costs, but still. Now take a 1:4 ratio with thin clients that have a 10 year life-cycle. Still cost about $500 each, but the total is $125K with a $12500 yearly cost. You'll also have servers that will have to be provided putting the yearly cost at $15K. Now this only leaves $85 per student per year to act as a stipend for purchase of a computer and home broadband.

I guess I've proven myself delusional. Even with a progressive scale giving more stipend to poorer families, the numbers don't add up as a savings.
0 Votes
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Worth it From Apple
WarhavenSC 19th Mar 2010
Our district is about 95% Apple. Apple honors full warranties on all of their refurbished computers, which are often 15% or more off retail, which is better than the 10% education discount.

So, we often purchase the computers refurbished, then place a separate order with our sales rep for the discounted AppleCare. Sometimes, Apple is willing sweeten the pot if you go through your sales rep (free keyboards with a large order of Minis and such), but you have to really work at getting any perks with them. Apple doesn't like to budge.
0 Votes
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agree on apple refurbished
dspeers@... 19th Mar 2010
Apple refurbished is very solid. I have bought from Dell, Gateway,
etc. Apple is one of the best and their support is second to none
on refurbished machines.
0 Votes
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WORD!
matthew_maurice 19th Mar 2010
Apple refurbs plus AppleCare is my recommendation for anyone buying
a Mac from Apple. My last four machines have been refurbs with AC, they
averaged 25% less in price, were essentially brand-new, and for the most
part functioned flawlessly. The one that was a problem was repaired
once for free and then replaced with a new, non-refurb model of higher
specs on the second problem. My current 15"MacBook Pro was the last of
the pre-unibody generation, and I got it maxed out with 7200RPM drive
for 36% off list.
0 Votes
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I have bought refurbished desktops for personal use in the past and then spent more in upgrades than I would have paid to buy a better new machine...and regretted the decision to go refurb.

However, one of my servers crashed hard recently (a CPQ DL 580) and I drove an hour to Toronto and bought 2 DL580s with 2G RAM and 3 18G SCSI drives and 4 x 1.4 GHz individual Xeon processors and dual PS. They were $105 each. I did a drive swap with the dead server and was back up and running very quickly. I have a spare server on the shelf now too. It is a sad thing that someone spent $5000-$10000 on those servers when they were new. I think they were a great deal!!!
Hello All:

How about up to 10 headed video/Keyboard/Mice on one system. I set an 8 headed system here at the University of Arizona. Works great!

http://www2.userful.com/

It uses 4 dual headed video cards and USB hubs.
One gotcha is the on board USB will allow only 4 keyboards & mice on the ASUS P6T motherboard. I added a 4 port USB card for the other USB hubs.
0 Votes
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Enterprise models of computers are (in theory) built to a higher standard than consumers models. So, in comparing a refurbished enterprise model to a bare bones consumer model, the enterprise model, even refurbished, should last longer than a budget consumer models.

The enterprise models are better suited to school use than the consumer models.

So, if the budget won't support new enterprise models, than buying refurbished enterprise models make sense.
0 Votes
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Our school lives on DELL refurbished. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend continually checking the deals and grabbing them. In five years I have only had one return.
The drawback is, of course, one lives with a configuration that you didn't choose, but... it has worked.

RDanahy
0 Votes
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I just buy MoBos, CPUs, and RAM from NewEgg. Keep the
old cases, fans, HDs, and optical drives. Still using
old 17" CRTs. I'd like to get rid of them for aesthetic
reasons, but the old CRTs refuse to stop working!
0 Votes
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Sometimes it hurts though
paladin2 20th Mar 2010
After being told for years what a great way to buy electronics 'refurbished' is, now that I've actually done it I still bang my head against a particularly good looking brick wall now and then just so I won't forget. After adding up the laptop I wanted on the Dell retail page, it came to $5800. That is just too much for a laptop to me. But I got the exact same machine with the QX9300 quad processor, the Nvidia Quadro FX3700, the edge to edge RGB LED, two drives with one a SLC SSD and the other a 320GB spinning platter and three years of Complete Care for 22 hundred and change. And that's with a 7% sales tax. And besides a little green sticker on the bottom you can't tell it from new. Even the packaging is like a new one. I will never buy retail again. Ever!
0 Votes
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Refurbished is the way to go!
My School District is saving thousands of dollars each year buying 3-year warranty, like-new condition Dell and HP computers.
Compucycle is the best thing that has happened to my school district in these tough economic times!
0 Votes
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RE: Is it time to start thinking refurbished?
yarinsiz Updated - 17th Apr 2011
Well done! Thank you very much for professional templates and community edition
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