ZDNet Education

Christopher Dawson

Just what does it take to switch to desktop Linux (part 2)?

By | December 1, 2008, 8:13pm PST

At well over 300 talkbacks and counting, plenty of folks took my challenge (and my reader’s challenge) to sort out just what it would take to switch from Windows to desktop Linux. Obviously, there was plenty of the standard Windows vs. Linux bickering, but there were also a lot of well-thought out responses. Given that our hypothetical office to be converted (the superintendent’s office) largely runs vanilla productivity applications with our mission-critical (and proprietary Windows only) applications running via Terminal Services on a Windows 2003 server, it seemed as though the conversion would be pretty straight-forward.

Here are the highlights from the talkbacks, though, with some important considerations. None of these seem to be deal breakers, but they certainly need to be part of a well-planned and successful conversion if we decide to head down that road:

  • Printing: Do all of the printers we access have Linux drivers? As much as we might want to be paperless, the super’s office, perhaps more than any other district administrative unit, must produce printed documents.
  • Backup: With our Windows machines, we can redirect desktops and user folders to a regularly backed-up server; Vista does a particularly nice (if slow) job of dealing with offline file synchronization. There are plenty of ways to handle this in Linux, but as far as I know, there isn’t anything quite as slick as either group policies in Windows for the redirects or the similar functionality enabled in OS X server (feel free to post a link or instructions for making this happen easily in Linux).
  • Replacing group policy and domain/enterprise levels of control in general: as noted above, while AD may have its share of issues, it makes pushing updates, enforcing policies, etc., really easy. Anyone have a good “Linux administration for dummies” link that covers good ways to handle policy for workstations across a network?
  • Remote access: A relative was visiting for Thanksgiving and couldn’t access his web-based VPN client on our Ubuntu laptop. Again, there are plenty of remote access solutions that will work quite well with Linux, but any existing infrastructure needs to be tested for compatibility.
  • Complex Excel files: Compatibility between OpenOffice 3 and Microsoft Office is generally quite good. However, since the super’s office also handles budget administration, there are most likely some fairly complicated spreadsheets floating around. A period of testing should certainly go on with OO.org, but a more important consideration may actually be the impact on productivity for budget admins who are extremely proficient in Excel.
  • “Extracurricular crap”: I really like this one, actually. Reader JoeMama_z makes a very good point: “Check out any extra curricular crap they may have, iTunes, Skype, etc. Yes these are silly but if users are pissed off you took away music they’ll be more likely to resist and sabotage.” Reader Ye offered this advice: “In my experience it’s not the mainstream applications that prevent a switch but rather the myriad of smaller programs which have no OSS replacements. Be sure to identify and factor these programs into any migration strategy.”
  • ADA compliance: This hadn’t even hit my radar screen, but it’s a very good point made by ZDNet contributor, Marc Wagner. As he asks, “What about a superintendent (or staffer) with special needs? Are their sufficient ADA-compliant tools in the open-source community?” Any feedback on experience with ADA compliance and open source applications that can meet a variety of needs would be much appreciated.

So there you have it. Some new questions, some new considerations, and several good points. For us, I don’t think that any of these are insurmountable, particularly because so much of what we do is either web-based or strictly productivity-oriented.

We’re a small district who (since we now have a tech director instead of the occasional teacher or parent who jumps in and does some tech stuff) is finally starting to build infrastructure and think “enterprise”, so enterprise tools like Exchange haven’t even entered the picture yet. In some ways, now is the time to decide whether we fully embrace a Windows ecosystem or move to a much more open system with all the advantages and disadvantages that might carry.

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Chris Dawson is a freelance writer and consultant with years of experience in educational technology and web-based systems. In 2011, he became the Vice President of Marketing for WizIQ, Inc., a virtual classroom and learning network SaaS provider.

Disclosure

Christopher Dawson

Christopher Dawson is the Vice President of Marketing for WizIQ, Inc., by day and a freelance writer and educational technology consultant by night. Well, most of his colleagues at WizIQ are based in India, so really he's working with them whenever he can stay awake. He has worked for his local school district as a teacher and technology director, for the Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health, and for Biogen, Inc. (now Biogen-IDEC, Inc.). He has also consulted with STATNet and Cytyc Corporation and retains close ties with X2 Development Corporation (now owned by Follett Software, the supplier of the student information system he administered for several years). Follett is paying him a monthly honorarium to act as a presenter for their "SIS Voices for Student Achievement" community (he produces occasional blog posts and hosts a monthly webinar on the use of student information systems to inform data-driven instruction and school-wide change. He regularly purchases and/or recommends Dell hardware. This is because Dell makes good hardware and has truly committed itself to education in innovative ways, particularly with their "Connected Classroom" initiative. It isn't because he has dealings with the company through his role at WizIQ (which he does) or because they have provided him with long-term loans of a variety of equipment for in-depth testing (which they have). Intel (reference designer for the Classmate PCs he has implemented in his local schools) has provided him with long-term loans of Classmate PCs for testing, as have Dell and Lenovo with their educational offerings. He may report on any of these companies as his experiences with them have direct bearing on educational technology; positive reports are not necessarily an endorsement and he receives no direct financial compensation from these companies or any others. Intel paid all expenses for his attendance at the 2009 Intel Classmate PC Ecosystem Summit which he attended as the sole representative of the technology press. He was invited to attend in 2010 but his wife would have killed him if he spent 3 days in Vegas geeking out and left her home alone with a new baby. Acer provided him with a 50% discount on an Aspire One netbook in early 2009 after he tested it for 30 days through their educational seed program. He liked the netbook at the time but it has since broken and sits unused in his office. Canonical sent him Ubuntu lanyards, t-shirts, and mousepads for his kids. He stole one of the lanyards and proudly hangs his keys from it and occasionally features his 8-year old wearing an oversized Ubuntu t-shirt on his Facebook profile. Gunnar Optiks sent him a pair of computer glasses to evaluate for a holiday gift guide. He is wearing them now as he types this because they never asked for them back and they rock out loud. Seriously - they work brilliantly and make it much easier to spend 20 hours a day staring at an LCD. If they ever asked for them back, he would fork over the $99 and buy a pair. Microsoft gave him 2 free copies of Office 2010 professional, a desktop clock, and a useless book on Office 2010 when he attended the launch of Office/Sharepoint 2010. He occasionally uses the SharePoint lanyard they gave him instead of the Ubuntu lanyard for his keys, but feels dirty afterwards. Adobe provided him with a pre-release version of the CS5 Master Collection for evaluation and ultimately provided a full, licensed copy for ongoing testing of educational applications of this admittedly expensive software. Like the Gunnars, if the license expires or they come out with CS6, he'd actually go out and buy it himself. Which is saying something, because he's actually pretty cheap. Any other companies wishing to send him cool things to evaluate, wear, or otherwise adorn his kids are more than welcome to; he promises to disclose it here if he keeps any of the stuff. Finally, because WizIQ is a virtual classroom and learning network provider, Chris, as VP of Marketing, frequently interacts with, seeks out deals with, and directly or indirectly competes with a whole lot of LMS, SIS, and other Education 2.0 companies. In general, he'll limit his reporting about these companies to news that does not impact his relationship with them or with WizIQ. If he reports on them, it's because what they are doing is newsworthy or worth the attention of his readers and not because he's trying to broker some deal, damage competition, or otherwise advance his position in his day job. LMS and SIS companies, along with other online learning communities, are a pretty important part of Ed Tech. If he stops reporting on them completely, there won't be a whole lot left. He'll be sure to call out any overt conflicts of interest if they are unavoidable. Finally, Follett Software Company pays him a little tiny honorarium every month to present on their SIS Voices webinars and to write the occasional blog or discussion thread for them. Since Follett recently bought X2 (maker of an awesome web-based SIS that Chris just happened to have used, served in advisory groups for, and frequently reported on), this is probably also worth disclosing.

Biography

Christopher Dawson

Christopher Dawson grew up in Seattle, back in the days of pre-antitrust Microsoft, coffeeshops owned by something other than Starbucks, and really loud, inarticulate music. He escaped to the right coast in the early 90's and received a degree in Information Systems from Johns Hopkins University. While there, he began a career in health and educational information systems, with a focus on clinical trials and related statistical programming and database modeling. This focus led him to several positions at Johns Hopkins, a couple-year stint in private industry, teaching high school math and technology, and 2 years as the technology director for his local school district. Most recently, he started his own consulting business and is now the Vice President of Marketing for WizIQ, Inc., a virtual classroom and learning network provider. He lives with his wife, five kids (yes, 5), 2 dogs, and a hateful cat in a small town in north-central Massachusetts. Although he is no longer teaching, his roles with WizIQ and ZDNet allow him to continue helping students and teachers add value to education with technology rather than merely adding to the bottom line.

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In NH, embarking upon a Linux project in our school
K12TechDir 16th Dec 2008
I read these articles with interest, but it will take me awhile to go through all of the comments! I'm Technology Director in a K-8 district/school of 600 students in New Hampshire, and we just received a 1-to-1 grant for our 4th grade. We will be implementing Linux netbooks for ~63 students in about a month! During this pilot project, I hope to answer so many of the above questions about integrating Linux, and work through many of these implementation issues ... we are a very solid Windows shop thus far, although we use many open source desktop apps with our students.

Twitter: altonNH
Skype: altonPM
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Compiz Fusion's magnifier plugins and ADA compliance
Grayson Peddie Updated - 1st Dec 2008
I've done a test in using a magnifier and enhanced desktop zoom plug-in in Compiz Fusion and it lacked support for input tracking. For example, run openOffice and zoom in until you don't see an insertion point. Now, try to write a document. No input tracking? Then try ZoomText for Windows (free evaluation version). That supports input tracking. While ZoomText does have a screen reader, you can use Orca under Linux, which I believe this to be ADA compliant.

ZoomText is ADA-compliant, while Compiz Fusion is just eye-candy, and unfortunately, I don't think it's ADA compliant for the visually impaired. Thus, under Linux, there's no integration with Compiz Fusion's magnifier/enhanced desktop zoom plugin in Compiz Fusion and Orca. In contrast, when it comes to Windows Windows. Freedom Scientific's JAWS for Windows can interoperate with AiSquared's ZoomText, but it's not that useful unless a visually impaired uses a Braille display (Google it).

I might try to get use to a screen reader without a magnifier, but I'm hearing impaired. I wish I could afford a Braille display, to suppliment with my hearing impairment under Linux (Ubuntu 8.10), but I can't. Too expensive. sad

Don't forget to take a look at the two videos posted in the AiSquared's website.
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Contributr
Excellent eval
mrdatahs 1st Dec 2008
Thanks for the feedback...I've looked for decent FOSS speech recognition software for a number of kids with motor skill issues who should be able to dictate their work (especially on our state standardized tests) - no luck there either.

It's built into Vista...

Hmmm.

Chris
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But ...
MisterMiester Updated - 2nd Dec 2008
It's built into Vista...

... it seems to work only with other Microsoft products:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sVQlphmqsU

Hmmm ... wink
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a microsoft solution vs. an OSS solution?


wouldn't that be moot, if that is the case.


I understand your purpose for posting it, and it's a great point but to have speech input is a great thing no matter if there is some (mostly irrelevant) limitation on product support.
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Well ...
MisterMiester 2nd Dec 2008
Isn't this a comparison between a microsoft solution vs. an OSS solution?

Last time I checked OpenOffice was an OSS solution while Microsoft Office is not. Did I miss something here? wink
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What did I miss?
xuniL_z 2nd Dec 2008
I thought we were talking about speech recognition, which Vista supports quite nicely.
:)


Word and Excel at education discounts are very reasonable. Access would be a great touch if it could be afforded as well.


Too many people use excel for things Access does much more easily.


The young lads and lasses should have a leg up heading toward that cold reality that faces them post public school.


I don't dislike OSS solutions, I just know the windows environment, along with other MS software, still provides more functionality where it's needed and great integration between products that is not easily duplicated in a fragmented environment.


I have a 5 year old Son and I would also think Chris might be interested in the parents and children's thoughts on this matter as well. After all, it's their education at stake here.


My Son, given the choice, would go for Vista in a heartbeat. He loves the beautiful UI and now he can't get enough of "Tinker", a game that came in via Vista Ultimate updates (Finally, something came in besides more dreamscene content! I will say, the Vista ultimate extras has been a joke).


It's a great little logic game with a robot you must guide to a given destination on a playing surface with many challenges. Even for adults it can be challenging at higher levels. This little game alone shows how far Vista has taken Windows graphics.
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You missed the lock-in ...
MisterMiester 2nd Dec 2008
I thought we were talking about speech recognition, which Vista supports quite nicely. :)

No one is complaining about the speech recognition in Vista. I even believe this is a nice feature that should be included in Gnome or KDE.

My complaint is that Microsoft's speech recognition only seems to have compatibility with Microsoft products, but not with others. This is by design since the input from the keyboard/mouse or through the intermediate layer of the speech software should do the exact same thing. I asked a family member who develops speech recognition software for commercial applications about this and he came to the same conclusion.

Now what this means is that any other software not designed by Microsoft may or may not work properly which rules out other software that the school uses for ADA. So speech recognition in Vista is not an option if the school can't use its other software. That's what you missed.
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ADA issues
Roger Ramjet 2nd Dec 2008
In terms of ADA, my biggest pet peeve with *NIX is the incomplete "Mousekeys" mappings. Let me explain. Windoze offers Mousekeys so you can use the keypad to move the cursor. You can switch between the Mousekeys and "ordinary" keypad by clicking on the NumLock key. This action does not work in *NIX Mousekeys - you have to do a SHIFT-NumLock. This is a deal-breaker for handicapped people playing games as it takes too long to do the 2 key combo instead of a quick one key. I was quite miffed at the lack of response from the FOSS community - as this SHOULD be a "simple fix".

Speech recognition is also a black spot for *NIX. As much as IBM harps on its commitment to Linux, it stopped developing ViaVoice for Linux (it still makes it for Windoze). That was the only viable speechrec program for *NIX (I have searched for an alternative project and have found ... nothing).

Personally, my best friend of 31 years was a quadriplegic - so I have years of experience with the handicapped to computer interface. Sadly he died this last June. It's a real shame that Linux could never get its act together to help him.
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The real "deal breaker"
kozmcrae 2nd Dec 2008
Is idiots like you spewing incomplete information about Linux. What the hell do you know about Linux? What are your qualifications for advising on it? And how much did your friends helper applications cost?

Linux, via KDE, has built in keyboard configuration and with it a disabled person can press the shift key and then the numlock key and the input will be simultaneous. How do I know this? Because my friend is disabled and can hardly type at all so I set this up for him. He gets along much better with Linux than with the Vista I replaced it with. He was a victim of the "Vista Ready" scam.
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What do I know about Linux?
Roger Ramjet 2nd Dec 2008
I guess you really DON'T know me. I have over 20 years of UNIX and Linux administration experience. Most people would lump me in to the ABMer crowd, but I try to be objective . . .

My friend could use 1 finger to interact with his keyboard. In real-time games like Ultima Online it would be necessary to switch from movement (keypad) to targeting (cursor) mode - and those monsters come up fast! On Windoze it was a single click of NumLock to make it work. On Linux, it was a 2-key combo which took too long (his error rate for hunting and pecking was significant). It also necessitated that he use ShiftKey - which he did.

What I said is factually true - whether you like it or not is not a consideration.
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Gee, that's great.
kozmcrae 2nd Dec 2008
So tell me Linux guru, why didn't you know it was possible to press two keys consecutively and have them read simultaneously?

Now, how much did your friend have to pay for the pleasure of playing his game?
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The great guru
Roger Ramjet 2nd Dec 2008
[So tell me Linux guru, why didn't you know it was possible to press two keys consecutively and have them read simultaneously?]

When a man has only 1 trapezius muscle working and has to look down at the keyboard to hunt for the shift key to press with his only finger - and then press the NumLock key - it can take seconds. That is not hardly simultaneous. I guess you haven't had the experience of working with someone handicapped. It teaches you patience.

[Now, how much did your friend have to pay for the pleasure of playing his game?]

He had to run it in Windoze, so the price was much too high.
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eh? Single key numlock works for me
deaf_e_kate 2nd Dec 2008
I'm using KDE 3.5 on Opensuse 10.3 and i don't need to press the shift key with numlock.
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Roger...
ajole 2nd Dec 2008
This isn't about online gaming...it would seem to all work far better for education than it does for gaming.

But it is sad that "they" can't get it together. Maybe you could work on that as a tribute to your friend?
Voice recognition can be a hit or a miss, though. But yeah, I think it's necessary for those with motor skill issues.

By the way, did you check out the videos in AiSquared's website?
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Ubuntu has landscape ...
MisterMiester Updated - 2nd Dec 2008
... for multiple deployment of desktops and servers:

http://www.ubuntu.com/news/landscape-system-management-tool

This is a web-based tool that allows the functionality of group policy, package management, systems updates, etc. It's available for free with Canonical's subscription service. happy

Edit:

You can register for a 60 day free trial period.
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Contributr
Nice...
mrdatahs 2nd Dec 2008
Thanks for the link - I'll check it out.

Chris
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So let me see if I've got this straight.
ye Updated - 2nd Dec 2008
One of the reasons cited for switching to Linux is to save money. And the solution you're suggesting to replace base functionality of Windows requires you to buy annual support at a cost of $250($900)/desktop? How is this saving money?
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You can buy it seperately if you want ...
MisterMiester Updated - 2nd Dec 2008
but if you need paid support, as many large companies do, you can purchase support from Canonical. Also you forgot per seat license fees and CALS to access terminal services. Lets compare Apples to Apples shall we. grin
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The topic was AD, not TS.
ye 2nd Dec 2008
Also you forgot per seat license fees and CALS to access terminal services. Lets compare Apples to Apples shall we.

You would be well advised to follow your own advice.
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Hmmm ...
MisterMiester 2nd Dec 2008
So let me get this straight, you want to narrow the topic to AD because it suits your argument? Sorry that's not the way life works. TOS is an important factor to determine the which environment to use. Isn't that what Microsoft has been saying for years?

You would be well advised to follow your own advice.

You know as well as I do that Chris uses terminal services and CALs are needed for Microsoft clients but not for Linux clients. Next time come back with something that has a little more substance, mkay? wink
And that was:

This is a web-based tool that allows the functionality of group policy, package management, systems updates, etc."
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No you can't backtrack ...
MisterMiester Updated - 2nd Dec 2008
Let's start with your first reply post:

One of the reasons cited for switching to Linux is to save money. And the solution you're suggesting to replace base functionality of Windows requires you to buy annual support at a cost of $250($900)/desktop? How is this saving money?

It was not discussed in my original post about any issues with the TCO of Windows or Linux. You can't make a statement like this and then decide you want to limit the scope to certain issues. You and only you brought this into the discussion

So tell me about support costs, licensing, and CALs for Windows Clients? grin
Your post I responded to was addressing AD functionality. That's where I'm keeping the topic.
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@ye - What a piece of work you are ...
MisterMiester Updated - 2nd Dec 2008
You bring into the discussion the reason for switching to Linux are lower cost, then complain when TCO issues for Windows and Linux are discussed. You set the framework and when you're called on this you immediately backpedal and try to frame the argument that somehow I'm changing the parameters?

If you can't be an adult and answer the questions about TCO with Linux and Windows then I believe this thread is over. In the future don't bring into the conversation issues of TCO if you can't or are just unwilling to discuss them.
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Oh no, nothing like that at all.
kozmcrae 2nd Dec 2008
You see the Windows support costs are $1200 - $1500. How do I know? I don't, I just made it up. Just like you did.
http://www.ubuntu.com/support/paid

You see unlike ABMers I actually base my information on facts and not speculation/conjecture/pulling things out of my A**
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Now do we see?
rbettencourt@... 2nd Dec 2008
This is what i have been telling people for a long time now. Linux cost money if you are a business. Sure it might save you money in the begining but then you need to add up the support cost. The fact is whoever develops a Linux OS are doing so as a job in which they get paid. Without money flowing in Linux would not be around. sure there are people who tinker and giver there stuff away for free (some ask for donations??)

The big problem with Linux is support from hardware vendors. If we really want Linux to be a bigger part we need to make all these hardware guys support Linux by making drivers and supportting their products on any flavor of Linux. Only then will companies strive to replace windows. We need a better option not a free option.
1- You can write your own application and offer to sell the support services (it doesn't have to be OpenSource for this, for example this is what Microsoft does).
2- You can take an OpenSource application, modify it and offer to sell the support services.
3- You can take the software and bundle it with hardware and sell it as an appliance.
4- You can gather several applications and bundle them and then sell the CD or DVD.
5- You can gather several applications and integrate them and then sell the CD, DVD or download, and/or sell the support.
6- You can give away the software and ask people to donate.
7- Others...

The thing is, it takes a lot more work to do the first than the others, and therefor your upfront costs are higher. In order to make money you either need to sell at a high cost or sell many copies.
The second method, one of the more common ones for Linux, has much lower upfront costs, since most of the development costs are not there and the base of coders is enormous. While it's true that there are costs to Linux, and it still is a relatively new OS to most people*, the fact is that for some organizations Linux can be less expensive. If you already have a serious investment in Microsoft, it may not make sense to change. However, the thing to remember is that Microsoft has a very high cost to exit, once you start going down that path it's more and more difficult to get off of it. If you know you will have to do a major technology refresh in the near future and are considering those costs, then Linux can be a less expensive alternative. But it won't work for everyone, and I think that Chris' list makes a good starting point for analysis.
I would highly recommend that anyone considering this kind of migration to do a Kepner-Tregoe type exercise before proceeding. But I would also recommend that people who haven't considered it should do it as well, because the numbers might surprise you. There is a reason most governments are taking more and more interest in OpenSource.




*(I've worked with HP-UX since 1989, WinNT since 1992, and Linux since 1998 so please no cracks about this)
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windows vista business critical support 24/7 is ?398+vat = ?457.70 = $672.95 PER INCIDENT !!!!!!!!!!!! but if you ain't in a hurry you can get an email/9-5 phone support for a cheap $67.63. per.incident. So HOW DOES windows save me money?????????????

http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?acty=ProductList&ctl=productlist&wf=PID&trl=PID~ProductList&x=13&y=9&ln=en-gb&prid=10840&gprid=436696

I would say this is saving money alright.
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Assistive technologies in Ubuntu
pjotr123 Updated - 2nd Dec 2008
In Ubuntu, you can use "assistive technologies" for people with a disability.

System - Preferences - Assistive technologies

Note: this has nothing to do with Compiz fusion, which is indeed only eye candy (as mr. Grayson Peddie has already rightly observed).

In fact, I think Compiz is best turned off when using assistive technologies:
System - Preferences - Appearance - Visual effects: none

Canonical has put attention for disabilities in it's mission statement, in the core philosophical ideals:
http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy
(number 3)

Greeting, Pjotr.
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Contributr
Perfect
mrdatahs 2nd Dec 2008
I'll poke around with this some more, too...
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Besides, what's a magnifier plug-in (in Compiz Fusion) without support for input tracking for the visually impaired?

Or, a better question is, what's ZoomText for Windows without support for input tracking?
As I wrote, Compiz has nothing to do with Assistive technologies, at least as far as I know.

Therefore, you shouldn't confuse the functionality of the two, though they may both offer magnifying possibilities.

Compiz is better turned off anyway, as it may hamper the workings of the assistive technologies.
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A few solutions
AndyCee Updated - 2nd Dec 2008
For Active directory, consider installing OpenLikewise (available in the repos) or Enterprise Likewise. I'm not personally familiar with the software, but I know LDAP and AD work together if you like to get your hands dirty.

For synchronisation there are a ton of options, but I haven't used more than rsync myself, which is probably not what you're looking for.
I think that you have to first look at cost of ownership free versus mega bucks. Plus you will only change if you have the heart to give Micro$oft the boot and are willing to give it a chance. As far apps are concerned you can get everything in Linux that you can get with Windos it is just going out and looking for them, did you not have to look for the programs that you needed in Windos when you first got Windos. Everyone is afraid of change no matter what the change is
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Sorry . . .
JLHenry 2nd Dec 2008
I gotta agree with ye, and a couple of others on this one. There ARE some programs that have no Linux equivalent.

As was stated above, voice recognition is lacking in Linux, but built in to Vista. Financial software for Linux (Particularly Business software) is practically non-existent. And specialized software (Such as church management software, as well as stuff like Bus routing software) simply isn't there. That's one of the reasons I recommended to my church that they get a Vista machine to replace the Antique I donated to them years ago.

And this isn't about "Change". Change for Change's sake is about the dumbest thing I've heard yet. It's about what is the best computing solution for Chris' School system. That may be Vista. It may be OSX, It might be Linux. But whatever it is, the solution will come about because it's the RIGHT solution for them, not because someone decided it was time for a change.
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Specialized Tasks
LadyGray 2nd Dec 2008
My husband is a diehard Mac user, but now has gone entirely to using PC's with Windows OS. Why? Because he does embedded programming, and all the development tools are only written for Windows.

A computer is a tool, not a political statement.

It may be a point of contention that Microsoft is making a gazillion dollars a year, but the bottom line is that Bill Gates saw a need and filled it.

And the point of this series of articles is to examine the finer points of doing a conversion to Linux, rather than a discussion of which operating system is better than another. Some of the broad statements of being afraid of change are not enlightening in terms of what this discussion is about.
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Thank you.
JLHenry 2nd Dec 2008
Don't think I'm running sown Linux, either. I use, and happen to like Both Ubuntu and PCLinuxOS (although Ubuntu is the only thing I currently have as part of a dual boot). It's just that in reality, there are quite a few things that the Linux community hasn't addressed yet. They will get there, and some of the problems might go away as/if Web-based solutions catch on.

But in a discussion of this type, having someone come along and tell us that you "shouldn't be afraid of change", tells me that he/she/it doesn't understand the conversation.
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The actual transition isn't as hard as any of you are making out. I swear Windows users are worse then the Israelites whining about leeks and onions.

A kiosk for Windows only software is a lot easier and cheaper than trying to frame apps across the network. Unless you have one Holy Grail application that's Windows only that everyone needs access to. I've never seen that, but I'm sure there's a setup so messed up it exists somewhere.

Set up a kiosk to satisfy the whiners and I'll lay odds it hardly ever gets used.

The real cost savings of having Linux desktops fall into two categories: License costs and ongoing maintenance. Specifically anti-virus subscriptions and CALS for network-centric software. I'm always amused how Windows users overlook the ongoing fees, like the license cost is the only difference.

Even replacing a few commodity desktops with Ubuntu or another Linux flavor will save you big money. And it will save you a lot of work. It's a lot less work to admin 10 Linux boxes than 10 Windows boxes. And I can access all our Linux desktops without getting up and we haven't spent a dime on management software.

My opinion, based on real world experience, is that most Windows users cling to it because it's what they know. Windows admins are entrenched in a lot of companies and will implement OSS poorly or in ways guaranteed to cost more. Most IT departments don't think about platform independence when they pick software and end up locking their business processes to a particular platform.

The money we save goes toward paying salaries, a very important expense right now. At least when I walk in here, I know I'm not going to have to fight with the technology, or bend my way of doing business to accommodate Redmond. People come in and spend their days making progress instead of working on PC's.
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I'm not even gonna . . .
JLHenry 2nd Dec 2008
respond to this, except to say -

HEY ye!!! They're coming after me for whining about converting to Linux!!!!


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
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That's kind of a loaded statement
Breetai 2nd Dec 2008
"voice recognition is lacking in Linux, but built in to Vista."

Nice, if voice recognition is suppose to be a big deal in Vista as features no wonder it's got such a bad wrap. It still sucks.
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Sucky VR is better than . . .
JLHenry 2nd Dec 2008
No Voice Recognition at all . . . Particularly when you have to deal with ADA regs.
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Specialty software
over2sd 5th Dec 2008
The thing most people forget (or willfully ignore) is that the Linux community has a good track record for building things that are needed. I remember when XFree86 was a fairly pointless yawn ("Okay, so I have a GUI. Now what?"), but now, users can choose from a KDE environment, a Gnome environment, or a lightweight or minimalist window manager (such as IceWM or Blackbox, respectively). I remember when OpenOffice had trouble with many MS-Office formats; now it opens all but the very latest version (and no, I don't consider that a big issue... if your company runs MS-Windows, you're still likely to have a lot of staff or clients who run last year's version), and they make import/export filters quickly to match the new formats. I remember when there really WERE no games more graphically advanced than text adventures and simple board games. Now, there's simutrans and a whole host of MMOs that run natively on Linux. I remember a lot of these things.
But the most interesting thing to remember is that almost all of these weren't that long ago. Most of the things I've mentioned came about in the last five, some in the last three, years.
So, give the community some time, try a dual-boot for a while, and if you're a programmer, you could write the next thing that Linux couldn't do this year.

Now, I'll grant that that won't be feasible for a school district or church running specialty software, but I'm sure that if (and I doubt this) there isn't any bus routing or church management software for Linux today, there will be in a year or two. It's probably already being coded.
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Please try to stay on-topic
Yagotta B. Kidding 2nd Dec 2008
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Food for Thought
NASyoBusiness 2nd Dec 2008
Chris,

Here are a few additional thoughts on the matter of moving to an OSS based solution for your school district.

To begin with, when it comes to cost, Microsoft makes it very easy for an educational institution to stay with their software. Open Licensing for Education can get schools a copy of Exchange 2007 enterprise for less than $500; CALS for server or Exchange run around $30 each; Office costs about $30 to $50 per license. Of course, the more an organization buys, the cheaper the pricing. Software assurance also provides some built in technical support offerings and upgrade protection.

I mention these prices, assuming open licensing for education, for a couple of reasons. First, there is a large existing ecosystem of applications, support, and trained and certified support people who are used to installing, managing, and working with software in the Microsoft ecosystem. The functionality and suggested applications of Microsoft products is well documented, and because of the large support and compatibility infrastructure, quantified and certified help is easy to find. Many of the other products available in the Microsoft ecosystem are also well documented and well tested. In addition, a large majority of the user population is familiar with the operation and utilization of products built upon the Microsoft ecosystem.

Second, because of the free form and open nature of the open source software environment, there is no unified development API, no unified support structure and few documented and certified support people. In order to get these kinds of assurances of functionality, support, and compatibility, it often means moving to one of the big open source product and service providers that offer proprietary addons and professional level support services. Firms such as Red Hat, Novell, Canonical, Sun, Xandros, and Mandriva come to mind. The professional level educational priced offerings that these companies offer are in the same price range as Microsoft's open education licensing. In addition, since most of the computer technicians in the USA are Microsoft centric, an organization may need to spend additional dollars in the first few years, and when staff changes, to get the level of functionality needed because the staff are not as familiar with the open source or *nix based solution as they are with the Microsoft based offering.

In addition, as the architect of a school system's IT system, you need to think about what happens to the network if you leave/die/quit. Will the next hire be able to continue operations? Will that person have the necessary skills to navigate a wide-ranging and disparate OSS system that may not be completely documented? These are important things to think about.

I have seen two school corporations in a rural midwest state have trouble because their OSS guru technical staff person left. When the corporations went to replace these people, they could only afford someone with Microsoft skills, and in the end, those organizations lost data, functionality, and time re-creating the network infrastructure because the OSS networks had been pieced together out of various free offerings that did not have business level support, assured compatibility, or professional grade documentation. The Microsoft centric replacements, who were the only available replacements for the money in the budget, couldn't make heads or tails of the hodge podge of services, scripts, and other assembled disparate parts that the OSS gurus had been able to assemble in to a working whole.
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WOW!
ericesque 2nd Dec 2008
This was exactly my line of thought. I refreshed the screen and your post was new and saved me a lot of time typing.

I agree whole heartedly (as I write this post from Ubuntu). Even for a one user system such as mine, I feel I spend a great deal of time using 'hackish' methods to maintain my system. I've often thought to myself that there is next to chance --should my system break-- that I could ever get back to this point from a fresh install. I know that's what backups are for, but there are such things as catastrophes.

But to further the point, if I developed the current state of this machine and would be unable to restore it myself, what chance would someone else have in that task? Now scale this to a school's IT infrastructure and you have a real mess on your hands.

I think there is a place for FOSS in our schools. But I'm afraid that I would have to call it irresponsible to convert a school system to linux unless you can guarantee the next person who comes along will be able to maintain the infrastructure without your guidance.
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Well, it was food for thought..
TedKraan 2nd Dec 2008
An OSS person left.. and as replacement they could only find a windows n00b for the same budget, since a new OSS would be too expensive.

This leads, using deduction to:

A: The original OSS person was heavily underpaid.
B: The IT budget changed.
C: The HR department fails at finding good IT personal?
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Funny!
ajole 2nd Dec 2008
You said "A: The original OSS person was heavily underpaid.":

This is education, nearly everybody is underpaid!
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What do you mean . . .
JLHenry 2nd Dec 2008
NEARLY everybody wink ?!? In smaller districts like Chris', and the one my daughter goes to, even the upper level jobs don't pay all that well, and the Board of Education members have day jobs (one is a Science teacher in another district, but lives in ours).

This is one of the biggest failings of our country. We can't seem to wrap our noggins around the concept that Education is important, and needs to be funded properly.
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I read these articles with interest, but it will take me awhile to go through all of the comments! I'm Technology Director in a K-8 district/school of 600 students in New Hampshire, and we just received a 1-to-1 grant for our 4th grade. We will be implementing Linux netbooks for ~63 students in about a month! During this pilot project, I hope to answer so many of the above questions about integrating Linux, and work through many of these implementation issues ... we are a very solid Windows shop thus far, although we use many open source desktop apps with our students.

Twitter: altonNH
Skype: altonPM

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