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Enterprise Alley

Dennis Howlett & Zack Whittaker

Would you flip to Microsoft?

By | November 7, 2008, 10:41am PST

Summary: The announcement of BizSpark didn’t get a huge amount of attention and I’m not surprised. After 24 years of running Wintel based systems I flipped to Mac and have never missed anything Microsoft offered. OK - I’m an edge case that wants to run as much as I can in the Internet cloud but as [...]

The announcement of BizSpark didn’t get a huge amount of attention and I’m not surprised. After 24 years of running Wintel based systems I flipped to Mac and have never missed anything Microsoft offered. OK - I’m an edge case that wants to run as much as I can in the Internet cloud but as someone who has invested in startups the last couple of years I can confidently say that no-one I personally know is building on the Microsoft stack. That’s not to say they don’t exist.

I recently spoke with ThoughtFarmer. They’re betting that organizations wanting to replace intranets will be more willing to do so if the offering is built on Microsoft technology. I see the wisdom in that (more on ThoughtFarmer next week.) Despite all the column inches that open source, Mac, Ubuntu and the like generate, the fact remains that Microsoft still ‘owns’ the enterprise. That may not matter for departmental solutions owned by users or those deployed over the Internet but it sure as heck matters internally. Especially if that means support.

Mike Arrington declares Microsoft’s BizSpark initiative as ‘brilliant’ and when you look at it, that’s easy to understand:

What startups get: a free, tech-supported alternative to open source software. Microsoft gets to train a new crop of engineers on their software and services, and lock these guys in after three years when fees start to be charged. Brilliant.

The question for startup developers is whether they trust Microsoft not to gouge them when the deal expires or before they’ve hit enough revenue to afford the services.Most of the folk I know give a collective shrug but then I only know a fraction of 1% of those in the developer community. As Jason Harris said on CMS Newsire:

In many cases, running Microsoft software doesn’t even enter the minds of those building solutions in a start-up environment.

It will be interesting to revisit this in say a year and see how Microsoft is doing. In the meantime, if you’re a startup, would you go for BizSpark?

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RE: Would you flip to Microsoft?
misszeroone@... 13th Nov 2008
never
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Nope...
Linux User 147560 7th Nov 2008
happy in the land of Open Source and true freedom. devil
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What does it matter?
GuidingLight 7th Nov 2008
why so intent on what people use? Microsoft, Linux, Apple, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

If a company feels that this solution or that solution is best for them, who are we to argue?

We lose no money if we are wrong
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RE: What does it matter? What?
n0neXn0ne Updated - 7th Nov 2008
"We lose no money if we are wrong "



Ask LSE.



^o^


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update
Spiritusindomit@... 10th Nov 2008
Was a result of catastrophic failure in the power grid at the LSE.

Nice try on that one. I can't see holding a software company responsible if you haven't bothered to update your power filtration system in the past 20 years, and you fry your hardware.
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RE: Would you flip to Microsoft?
Loverock Davidson 7th Nov 2008
Why wouldn't you? It would only make sense to go with a well trusted brand named solutions provider like Microsoft. The amount of time and money spent on R&D that they do alone is well worth it since they provide solid products and services. Only one, maybe two other companies could match them on that.
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Now if they'd only....
storm14k 7th Nov 2008
...use that R&D time to make products that work.
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They did (NT)
Loverock Davidson 7th Nov 2008
.{}.
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yes it work with virus spam and the rest
Quebec-french 7th Nov 2008
thx but no thx
On the other hand look at OSS. Now, that's crap.
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Well...
zkiwi Updated - 7th Nov 2008
It depends on if Microsoft wants to hijack your technology or not. BlueJ almost had that happen to them, and the Stacker disk compression people most certainly did.

Now if they don't (or they're not going to) hijack your tech, then there's not a problem.

Perhaps startups would do well to look at how their partnerships etc might go if they go wrong before entering into them. Due diligence, that sort of thing.
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really?
jk_10 7th Nov 2008
all blogger or journalists say they are using mac, really? i just don't see how many freaks out there using mac.

no matter how hard you try, mac still stinks as hell.

i am tired of this, say something real.
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Open Source strikes again!
kozmcrae 7th Nov 2008
The next time Microsoft offers your company a great deal on software and training, thank Open Source.
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And....
Joe_Raby 7th Nov 2008
Since Microsoft competes with a lower TCO especially when including support costs, thank enterprise Open Source vendors.
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RE: And.... ?
n0neXn0ne Updated - 7th Nov 2008
"Since Microsoft competes with a lower TCO especially when including support costs,..."



"Linux TCO: Less Than Half The Cost of Windows"

"The cost of running Linux is roughly 40% that of Microsoft Windows ... Most of the savings with Linux come from software licensing fees ..."



^o^


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Ah yes...
zkiwi 7th Nov 2008
TCO spasms into being once more. Free plus support clearly must be much more expensive than licenses for the OS, clients, and also support. Yeah right.

Especially as there was that study reported in zdnet a while back where Microsoft itself concluded that an OSS solution cost about the same as a Microsoft solution. Ah well...
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Every time TCO comes up
LiquidLearner 7th Nov 2008
I fail to see anyone explain how Linux offers a comperable solution to Exchange, Sharepoint and Active Directory. So it's pretty hard to quantify TCO when you get so much more, right?

If I pay less, I get less. I suppose that's a good strategy for Linux to play off. Let me know how that goes down.
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RE: TCO comes up, TCO goes down
n0neXn0ne Updated - 8th Nov 2008
"I fail to see anyone explain how Linux offers a comperable solution to Exchange, Sharepoint and Active Directory."

...

If I pay less, I get less."



It's called do more with less. You just named three servers, does one really need three server if they can do it with one.



In the final analysis all you are paying for are licenses for 3 servers.



^o^


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So...
zkiwi 8th Nov 2008
Why did the Microsoft sponsored study have such a radical shift from "Windows is cheaper" to "It's all about the same"?

As far as Exchange, Sharepoint and Active Directory go, they are hardly compelling bits of code, and they are not cheap in any sense of the word.
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It must be the "Victim" complex
Ole Man 11th Nov 2008
If several sheep are selected for shearing/slaughter every time they are fed, pretty soon they will run in the opposite direction when they see the feedsack.

Having developed the complex, they then run when they are offered a free meal without fear of reprisal, and hurl insults of baaaaaaaa at the shepherd.
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Obviously not.
peter_erskine@... 7th Nov 2008
Companies I'm prepared to deal with are dedicated to providing quality and value. Microsoft do neither - their ethos and obsession is to regard every customer as a cash cow. Microsoft HAS to get money out of the customer even when they have little or nothing to give in return.
The other reason is that technology should be controlled, it should not be not controlling you.
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Is it deemed "cool" to say you own a Mac in the US?

Because in Europe, not so much...
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It's gotten that way...
LiquidLearner 7th Nov 2008
Only the cool kids have Macs. Which is why we get the blogs like "Name something 7 does that Mac doesn't already" and "Would you flip off to MS". It's pretty funny really.

Although I know people who have done both. I've had clients try a Mac and couldn't wait to go back to Windows. Of course, they passed it down to their kid who then got to be "cool" having a Mac so it all worked out in the end.
nt
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Uncool
dahowlett@... 8th Nov 2008
I must be uncool then as I am based in Spain. But seriously, I was making the point that I had switched and see no reason to go back.
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RE: Uncool
richdave 10th Nov 2008
Use what works for you.
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It would be short sighted to choose Microsoft
hamobu-22333136139518773481685514128812 7th Nov 2008
Why go with Microsoft when microsoft could up the fees down the line? Are developers really that short sighted?
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How do you know??
bcarpent1228@... 7th Nov 2008
You make it sound like Microsoft is the only company (in the world?) that adjusts fees after an extended period.

Which commercial company doesn't adjust prices, fees, etc. - so maybe developers would be "short sighted" choosing anything?????
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That is why you go with open source
hamobu-22333136139518773481685514128812 8th Nov 2008
Choosing Microsoft's free service over open source is like canceling plumbing and relying on free water from Avian knowing that they will eventually start charging you their bottled water prices.
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RE: Would you flip to Microsoft?
thjoey@... 8th Nov 2008
Why wouldn't you flip to Microsoft? Why go Mac? So you can pay $3000 more for a graphic design comp that has inferior parts? or search for support for programs? or pay 3 times more for IT support? In this economy keeping cost down is everything I price both mac and pc for start ups and over the life of the system you save THOUSANDS with a Microsoft platform...and thats the bottom line
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defend your position.
lostarchitect 8th Nov 2008
which parts are "inferior"?
why would one have to "search for support for programs"?
why would one have to pay "3 times more" for IT support?
how would one save "thousands" with microsoft?

i have never experienced any of these issues.
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He can't
Kaiwai 8th Nov 2008
He can't defend his position - because the guy is an idiot.
Expensive? he is probably one of those idiots who go out
and price up Mac Pro's for desktop computers (what the
hell is wrong with iMac and MacBook?)

"search for support programmes' - what 'support
programmes'?

'3 times more' - compared to Microsoft and virtually rapes
and pillages every company who has a contract?

lostarchitect, what you're seeing from the guy you replied
to is fear - his little monopoly as being a MCSE is gradually
slipping away. People are seeing him for the clueless twitt
he really is. This economic cycle is going to be deep and
painful - the first people to leave are the intellectual light
weights in the IT world. The last cycle it was so-called 'web
developers' who were booted off, this cycle it is going to
be so-called 'computer experts' with vendor certificates
who are going to be booted off next.
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RE: defend your position.
richdave 10th Nov 2008
... i have never experienced any of these issues...

Could it be at all possible that there are some who have more experience than you?
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RE: Would you flip to Microsoft?
linuser 8th Nov 2008
Nope. I'll tell you why I moved to Ubuntu:

1. It's free and easy to use.
2. I receive a new, free OS upgrade (and new application versions where applicable) every 6 months (versus several years with Windows...which do not include new, free application updates).
3. The update manager continually updates EVERYTHING I have installed on my machine (not just Microsoft stuff, in the case of Windows).
4. It boots and runs faster than any Windows machines I have ever owned.
5. I do not have to buy and upgrade additional spyware and virus programs like I did with Windows.
6. I don't have to continually defrag the harddrive.
7. The system requirements (memory, disk, CPU, electricity usage) are lighter and thus less expensive than say Windows Vista, so the same machine can last me much longer and be less expensive to operate (and I can even resurrect old hardware that doesn't run Windows well anymore).
8. All the key productivity applications (OpenOffice, GIMP, etc.) are included free (versus hundreds of dollars for Microsoft Office, etc.).
9. Any additional programs I use are free and available in a central location (the package manager).
10. I can usually install/run the rare Windows-only program I might need (none so far) using Wine or Crossover Office.
11. Different desktop environments are available (GNOME, KDE, XFCE, etc.), if I want/need something different.
12. The Ubuntu support community is awesome, if I do have a problem.
13. It is starting to be offered pre-installed on new Dell, Toshiba, HP (customized version of Ubuntu) and Sylvania machines, so I don't even have to install it anymore.
as long as the product they bought is simplifying their work and offering them more value added benefits. Just ask the Mac fanboys.
How about frugal and smart? Mac fanboys are running an emasculated, gutted OS, compared to Linux, and they are very happy and proud. To each his/her/its own.
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HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
james_p 8th Nov 2008
Hell No.
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RE: Would you flip to Microsoft?
Brent R Brian 9th Nov 2008
Happy with Fedora, no flipping back, I have a full time job, and I don't want to be a Microsoft admin after hours.
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Why do I care what they run?
Brent R Brian 9th Nov 2008
Gee. Why would I care ....

I get very few calls from Linux users, just the newbies.
I get no calls from Mac users, newbies or not.
I get fed up with calls from Microsoft users.

Hum.
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I did years ago!
no nonsense 9th Nov 2008
from of course unix and linux!
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liar...
Narg 10th Nov 2008
Dennis, you are a liar.
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Switch back to Microsoft?
bricar2 10th Nov 2008
Under two conditions:

1) The whole OS is rewritten under a UNIX base
2) Microsoft designs its own hardware in-house ( a la Apple).
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The whole OS is rewritten. . .
CodeCurmudgeon 10th Nov 2008
"The whole OS is rewritten under a UNIX base"

That is the simplest way for Microsoft to get an OS which works, doesn't blow up and is reasonably secure.

Put a Windows front end over Free BSD, and you might have a vaguely decent OS.

Of course, all the legacy apps that Windows sort-of-kind-of runs would be toast. But then accommodating those old piece of s*** applications is a very large part of why Windows security has so many holes in it anyway. . .
0 Votes
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I had a Samsung with Windows Mobile. Very difficult to use
and I didn't like the interface. It was having a desktop on my
phone and, quite frankly, I need something faster and
simpler to use, yet still lets me read email, take and send
pictures, and play music.
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RE: Would you flip to Microsoft?
jestewart1 10th Nov 2008
What, and renter the stoneage world of virus's and spyware!
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Obviously not a developer...
Spiritusindomit@... 10th Nov 2008
Microsoft is not in the business of catering 100% to the consumer. The reason microsoft's business offerings are impressive is the support you get with them, both in tools, professional help, reliable publications and their massive online catalog of resources that cover absolutely everything in every last one of their products down to bytecode.

With mac development you get to shell out for xcode, no support, a small development community, a handful of o'reilly books and a massive api blackbox for which you have no reference.

Like I said, it's obvious you aren't a developer.
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Developers versus Users
Ole Man 11th Nov 2008
Developers should be wary because they know they will most likely be ripped off by Microsoft (the Devil is in the details, and verified by history), and Users should be wary because they know for CERTAIN they will be ripped off by Microsoft (the Devil is in the EULA, and verified by history).

So what's the diff? Unless you happen to be an MCSE or an MSMVP and flying the flag and bowing in obeisance to the primary source of your livelihood.
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Mac is painful
no nonsense 11th Nov 2008
A fear back, I also have to use Mac for about three months. Mac was so terrible to use. You know what happened when I finished day's work?

Pain in my arms and neck!
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RE: Would you flip to Microsoft?
misszeroone@... 13th Nov 2008
never

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