Teacher should be fired for Facebook comment, judge rules

By | November 15, 2011, 2:20pm PST

Summary: A judge has told a first-grade teacher she should be fired for posting on Facebook that she felt like a warden overseeing future criminals. Her lawyer plans to appeal the ruling.

Administrative Law Judge Ellen Bass has ruled Jennifer O’Brien, a first-grade teacher at School 21 in Paterson, New Jersey, should lose her tenured job, because of a Facebook comment she made about her students. O’Brien has been on administrative leave since March, which is when she posted her status update saying “I’m not a teacher — I’m a warden for future criminals!” She claimed she wrote it out of exasperation after several students disrupted her lessons, one pupil hit her, and another stole money from her.

Bass said O’Brien “demonstrated a complete lack of sensitivity to the world in which her students live” and called her conduct “inexcusable.” O’Brien’s lawyer, Nancy Oxfeld, says the teacher will appeal the ruling, according to CBS News. The state education commissioner has 45 days to accept, reject, or modify the judge’s decision regarding O’Brien.

Like many before her, O’Brien thought she was updating her Facebook status privately. She had 333 friends who could have seen it – some of them did, and a fraction of those forwarded it on to others. This resulted in a “significant” number of parents arriving at the school, demanding their children be pulled from her class.

“The reason why she was suspended was because the incident created serious problems at the school that impeded the functioning of the building,” board president Theodore Best said in a statement at the time. “You can’t simply fire someone for what they have on a Facebook page; but if that spills over and affects the classroom then you can take action.”

O’Brien then refused to make any public statements, but her lawyer did speak on her behalf, saying that any comments that the teacher had made on Facebook were done on her own time and to her friends. “My feeling is that if you’re concerned about children, you’re concerned about what goes on in the classroom, not about policing your employee’s private comments to others,” Oxfeld said in a statement.

See also:

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Topics

Emil Protalinski has covered the tech industry for five years for multiple publications.

Disclosure

Emil Protalinski

Emil has nothing to disclose.

Biography

Emil Protalinski

Emil Protalinski has covered the tech industry for five years for multiple publications, including Neowin for two years and Ars Technica for three years. He has written 1,000s of articles for both, with a particular focus on scrutinizing Microsoft products and services. Recently, Emil has expanded his coverage to non-Microsoft technologies, including the social networking giant Facebook.

68
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

Actually , this one is simple - the school board is wrong
davesuff 2nd Apr
It wasn't the action of the teacher that created this incident, it was the action of "a fraction of those forwarded it on to others ". The board simply cannot penalize her for the actions of others. Take all of the emotion and whether she was right or wrong to express her opinion out of it. Simply stated, the "incident" that caused the issue was not an action that she undertook. Let's see if they can fire the ones that forwarded it....
Seriously? For that? Think of the amount of chaos that your average six year old causes. Now multiply that by 30. It was a statement of exasperation. When my little sister breaks or loses something, when I say "I'm gonna kill her", I don't actually think about harming her.
@Aerowind

+1
The world is becoming more ridiculous by the day.
@Frenz9 Since I am not a teacher, tenured or not, I feel quite comfortable in saying that if this depiction is accurate then the ALJ should be the one losing the job. You have to be sensitive to the world the kids grow up in? So assault and theft are now acceptable? Really?

So this teacher is losing a tenured position over this? If she was a teacher for one of my numerous children I would be backing her up.
@Aerowind Agreed, especially if her students are actually future career criminals. The enraged parents are probably the source of the problem, hence why they were so mad. I take it that the truth hurts?

There are so many failed scrubs who end up being parents... Poor children.
@Aerowind +1

Administrative Law Judge Ellen Bass went way too far down the slippery slope with this ruling.
@Skippy99 ALJ Ellen Bass should be fired. I'm pretty sure she doesn't have tenure, either.
@Skippy99 Agreed. So she get's in trouble for speaking the truth? What happened to free speech that our judicial system is supposed to be upholding? You couldn't pay me enough to teach public school. Note to other teachers...don't friend students, parents of students, co-workers, or administrators in FaceBook.
People need to be less hyper sensitive. If she made that comment about a particular student, by name that would be one thing, but a general statement?

If you look for fault you will find it.
@Paul Krueger And I bet the parents of the kids who hit her and stole from her didn't give a flip and didn't ask to have the kids removed from her class...

A lot of parents seem to forget what parenting actually entails...
Agreed. 'Looking for fault' is another way to say 'picking a fight'. The teacher may have been wrong for saying that, but the teacher ALSO made that very statement in what she considered to be a somewhat private venue. (Her private post on Facebook). That she has to be punished because one of her many friends is too stupid to respect her privacy is just plain outrageous and stupid. (This is why I prefer G+, where one can just lock re-sharing)

The judge went too far, and I hope the person who has the authority to actually fire the teacher thinks about that and realizes the situation.
I've seen classes like hers here in Calif. and there is nothing the teachers can do about the disruption, violence and assault. The kids who make these classes, and the schools, a living nightmare, are protected by their social status, and teachers are punished for saying anything. And on top of all that, if the teachers don't show sufficient progress in the "No Child Left Behind" challenge, they are punished. No one involved in Govt. or the school system (or liberal America) has the guts to admit that certain children are unteachable, and that they severly inhibit the ability of others in those classes/schools to learn. In California, if you can afford it, you move your kids out of public schools, and away from the physical and emotional trouble, as soon as you can, if you don't your kids risk almost certain failure and death at the hands of the monsters.
@Steve@...
Watch were you're swinging that broad brush partner. The public schools my kid goes to her in CA are great....and they are in an extremely poor area too.

Your general hate for public education clouds your view.
0 Votes
+ -
@toadlife
Statement condemning something are most often viewed using a broad brush; get over it. Unless a person is named it is a broad brush. Notice you as well are swinging a broad brush, partner. You say "your general hate for public education clouds your view". How do you know he hates public education or that his view is clouded; it is an assumption on your part. Maybe he is speaking from personal experience; "Partner".

I know many teachers in CA that have the same complaints, frustrations, and feelings. The stories they tell will shock you. When students know they can get away with misbehaving they misbehave with impunity. Sometimes taking out their anger physically on the teacher. The teacher cannot even defend themselves striking back without getting in trouble.

The teacher is not a baby sitter, warden, the police, and the like. When a child is disruptive get rid of the child not the teacher. Parents and children need to take responsibility for their behavior.

It is the job of the teacher to teach, it is the child's responsibility to learn. If they do not learn then when they get out of school the real world will be very cruel for them. Oh-well..
@BubbaJones: You may, indeed, know many teachers in CA who are frustrated with their lot in class. I know several in IL, as well. But that doesn't invalidate toadlife's comment. I happen to agree with Steve@ that we have gone far too far to include students who are misbehaving in class, and with the amount of weight external activities carry against the curricular time-on-task that we imagine (and expect that) our children are experiencing. I know of school policies that allow students to turn in make-up work at any point in the class for full credit, schools where teachers are required to allow suspended students to make up any missed assignments, including laboratories, for full credit (turning the suspension into a vacation), and schools where every other week is an early out or an in-school special activity, shortening the time of every class period of the day. Seriously? Every other week? Half days off every month? And the politicians want our kids to go to school on Saturdays. How about actually making them go to school for the full time during the current school year? That would be a good start.

As for the teacher, you would think that with all the publicity of people 'outed' for one thing or another on Facebook that the message would sink in that this is, after all is said and done, not email, but a public forum. There is no privacy. But she shouldn't be fired. Disciplined, yes. But a mistake of this magnitude isn't firing material. It was a stupid move on her part, not an intentionally hurtful one. I think the judge was over the top on this one.
Watch were you're swinging that broad brush partner. The public schools my kid goes to her in CA are great....and they are in an extremely poor area too.

Well that's your school. Not every school out there is like your school there, padnah....

Your general hate for public education clouds your view.

Yeah well they clearly failed in this case. I hope that teacher sues the brains out of that school.
@Steve@... No one unteachable. The problem usually is that the system does not suit the children.

In many cases, not all, many of the kids would respond and work better in smaller classes, groups of 5 or 10, some may need 1 to 1 lessons to get back on track.

No one is unteachable it more about the resources we are willing to allocate to teach them and for some kids the resources we do allocate are not enough.
When I read the title, I was thinking about the case where a teacher posted about specific students (with names) and talked about their grades.

But a teacher saying that she feels like "a warden overseeing future criminals" is in no way anything bad enough to consider as a reason to terminate the employment of the person. With the way kids behave today (because the parents don't teach their kids any kind of control and defend them when they do something wrong), the statement was probably appropiate. If parents didn't like it, then they should learn to educate their kids better.

Education STARTS AT HOME. Teachers are not getting paid enough to put up with spoiled brats and their lazy parents.
@wackoae

"Education starts at home". I couldn't agree more!
@lapland_lapin
Unfortunately, in many homes education never starts. Teachers have tremendous responsibility and no authority anymore. They can't discipline kids and the kids know it. The parents are too busy with their own lives and expect the schools to take care of everything.
@wackoae ( Your absolutely RIGHT ) Teachers are really just overpaid babysitters who endure kids hitting,spitting, cursing, stolen from and LIED on ( Meaning made up stories of abuse, either sexual or physical, and have no recourse other than take it or get fired. There isn;t enough money to pay me to do it. I would beat the **** out of about half of them
@wackoae

Do I hear you. My neighbor was a public school teacher for 15 years, and she finally quit, and got a position with a private school. The classroom behaviors are night and day, she tells me.

At the public school, kids could not control themselves, acting out, throwing temper tantrums and, generally acting like brats.

At the private school, misbehavior is not tolerated; and repeat offenders are not allowed to return at the beginning of the next school year. (IOW - expelled at the end of the year.)

The public school problems boil down, according to her are:

1) meddling politicians at all levels of government, from both sides of the political spectrum;
2) teacher's unions that refuse to recognize that there are bad teachers, who need to really work in another career;
3) parents who do not give a f--- (for whatever reason);
4) having kids that:
a) have mental issues that interfere with learning, or
b) that do not want to be in school, and consequently are not motivated to learn;
disrupting the learning experience for the rest of the class. I believe that for 4a) the `PC term` is called mainstreaming.

Since she has made the switch, she is a far less stressed person than she used to be. Twice, the local school system begged her to return, twice she told them to go to h---. Her response: "The bulls--- I have to put up with is not worth what you are willing to pay me." Teaching can be a joy, when you have motivated kids.
It was unprofessional, exasperated or not. I agree with the judge, its inexcusable.

Her name is not Lisa Lampanelli anyway, she had no business saying those things.
@TheFilipinoFlash

since she's a teacher, she's not allowed to "vent"?
@TheFilipinoFlash
You've got to be kidding? You are part of the problem. Everyone today is a little pansy that can't handle a little criticism and unfortunately can't write, read, or do math or science today because teachers aren't even allowed to fail students anymore.
@TheFilipinoFlash

It was foolish but certainly not 'unprofessional' to post the comment.
A lot of kids are out of control.A lot of parents don't discipline their kids at home and expect the teachers to do so.That is the sentient I get from a lot of teachers I have talked to. The difference is she posted on Facebook. Sounds like the judge is really overacting here.
@AaronHZ
Her comments were funny. Why can't anybody just take it for the ironic humor that it was. Kids today need better discipline and parenting before they take abuses upon those attempting to educate them. Dr Spock and his poor methods for raising a generation of spoiled brats is now being passed to future generations, and society is picking up the tab.
The judge is right from his point of view. From my point of view, the teach is indirectly asking for help. If the judge is really interested in justice I would make a visit to her class and see from my self how I can help support her in doing her job which is teaching. I see her as honest and expressing her frustration could be nobody is listening or taking a step to help her teach. Go into the class and see what you can do to help. Punishing is easy doing her job might not be so easy.
The parents showing up demanding their kids come out of her class are the real problem. The principal even said that disruption is what caused him to act, not her comments. Unfortunately, most school boards cave to the whims of angry parents in a heartbeat so teachers often get left out in the cold when it comes to that. Parents vs teachers ... parents almost always win, even if they're wrong.
0 Votes
+ -
Inappropriate? Maybe. But ...
lapland_lapin 16th Nov
We all say stupid things when we're exasperated - and children can be some of the most difficult testers of our patience. Perhaps she should have kept her mouth shut ... but as far as I can tell, there was no malice or threat contained within her comment. Shouldn't she be able to vent her frustration harmlessly on her own facebook?

I'm glad that parents are committed and proactively interested in their children. That's great. But taking out their frustration on a teacher for a benign facebook comment? Give me a break.
@lapland_lapin

I agree with your statements but if the parents were proactively interested in their children they would be more well behaved and would definitely not be hitting or stealing. To me this is just reactive parenting raising a big fuss in the hopes they will get some publicity or monetary gain.

I work IT in a school district and see crap like that all the time. Students getting bad grades because they are lazy the parent is blaming the teacher.

I literally had a student steal 6 laptops and was stupid enough to bring one of them back to the school to use and he was caught using it after it was reported missing months ago. The father actually filed a lawsuit against the school claiming that the method I used to trace the laptop across our Wireless Access Points to determine where the laptop was located in the building was a form of entrapment and that his child was set up. What makes it even more sad is some of the school's administrative staff went right to kissing the father's behind and apologizing and if it wasn't for the Police pretty much outlining the law about how he stole enough equipment to be considered grand theft the school district may have let the father win. The point is schools are afraid to lay down the rules like they used to do in the past because or corrupt judicial system lets people get away with bogus lawsuits and claims.

There was a time when Parents seem to give a crap and today those parents seem to be too few and far in between.
@bobiroc
Are we absolutely sure the statement about theft and hitting her is not reactionary as well? I understand your incident but that sounds like high school and we are talking about 6 year olds. Any teacher who cannot handle first graders needs to retire.
@thekman58 - I want to see you try it... It is a lot harder than you think. Especially in the early grades. The hardest job in education. Trust me on that one.
@thekman58

Work a few days in the educational system and see if you can still make that statement. While I deal with High School Kids my wife works in a grade school and I have plenty of family and friends in the school system and it doesn't matter if they are 6 or 16. Some kids are just plain out bad. The only common denominator seems to be is you can tell the parents that care about their kids and the ones that expect the educational system to raise them because they are too busy with their own lives. The problem is the same parents are the first to cry wolf and defend their child when it is the child that needs the discipline and correction.
@bobiroc
"Corrupt" judicial system hahaha!!! This is what you get with a "LIBERAL" judicial system. The word is "LIBERAL" !!!!!!
Having worked with young children as a youth sports coach, I can honestly say that there is no such thing as a bad or unteachable first grader. If she's having problems maintaining control, then it usually means that they are not being kep busy or engaged. This is usually a result of too many kids in the classroom or the teacher not being properly prepared. As schools cut budgets to stay afloat, classroom sizes are typically over 30 kids per classroom with no assistants.

I'm sure that the teacher was frustrated and should probably not be fired as she did not say anything inflammatory regarding any specific kid and what she DID say was not bad. Her problems is that once parents started talking about it, she lost all credibility with them. She would not be able to hold a parent-teacher conference and look them in the face without them wondering if she thinks THEIR child is a criminal.

Again the power of social media rears it's ugly head! Message here is don't post anything online that you don't want EVERYONE to read!
0 Votes
+ -
You forget
Dr_Zinj 16th Nov
@tdogg219
youth sports coaches have the advantage that their charges are more likely to want to be there than kids in a classroom. Additionally, how many parents to you have at your practices who either help, or their presence keeps little Johnny or Suzie behaving?

My wife is a school teacher, and a pretty damn good one. And even she has classes with little monsters like that.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: little monsters like that.
fatman65536 Updated - 16th Nov
@Dr_Zinj

I went to school during in the 60's; first in a Catholic grade school, then a Chicago public high school. Back then, you did not mouth off to the nuns; otherwise, you got a triangular drafting scale used on your knuckles. And, my fingers still bother me on cold days from those few whacks. Even in the high school, one could get spanked.

But not anymore!!! These days, if you even threaten to spank a kid, the 'self righteous' will crawl out from under their rocks and label you as a 'child abuser'. Spare the rod,... and all of that nonsense.

A neighborhood punk assaulted a 82 year old woman trying to steal her purse after she cashed her monthly social security check. In the process, she was thrown down in the parking lot, and she broke her hip. Once out of the hospital, she was unable to take care of herself, which required that she end up in a nursing home. Six months later, she dies from a blood clot.

This punk is 18, a high school dropout, and had a lengthy juvenile record. Since she died as a direct result of those injuries from the purse snatching; and that death occurred within a year; this punk now faces manslaughter charges. His parents were told many times that he was going to be a problem if they did not discipline him; and it looks like the taxpayers will end up footing the bill for his jail stay.

Rotten, good for nothing POS.
Seems like stories like this have been happening ever since social network sites came onto the scene nearly a decade ago. However, this probably exemplifies that people still lack awareness on the potential harms of using social media. Since this woman???s Facebook profile was only visible to 333 of her friends, she probably felt more comfortable being candid, but clearly that was a false sense of security. Regardless of whether you think she should be fired or not, there definitely needs to be more awareness on social media and how it effects your professional life. http://www.mosaictec.com
This is just insane. I understand that Facebook is NOT truly private bu it should still be treated that way when it comes to what is said on there. That being said there are some circumstances where concern should be raised like if she was to name specific names or say something that could be considered a threat on one of the students.

If I were that teacher I would provide the judge with her class roster of names and say "Here is a list of some potential people that you may see come before you in the future"

All I know is if I was to be disruptive, hit a teacher, or steal from them I would have been in deep deep trouble from my parents and they would be the ones apologizing to the teacher on my behalf. This world is going to h3ll in a handbasket if you ask me.
0 Votes
+ -
Huh!
The JUDGE should get a swift kick in the nards! The teacher is entitled to her opinions as much as anyone else and if the judge doesn't like it maybe he should sit on the bench in one of the former Soviet Bloc countries.
People we are talking about first graders, 6 year olds.
This is the lowest level of students after kindergarten and she can't handle them?
For someone with a ???so called??? tenured position that in itself is unacceptable.
@thekman58

And you have experience working with a room full of children I take it? 6 year olds can be just as nasty of kids or adults of any age. They talk back, they do malicious things like hit and steal and the teacher is powerless to do anything because now schools fear any minor thing that can result in bad press or a lawsuit. There was a time if a student acted up the school could do something about it. Now if a kid acts up and is given any form of punishment they run the risk of Mommy or Daddy suing and our corrupt judicial system lets it happen.
0 Votes
+ -
Ridiculous...
Naryan 16th Nov
She is COMPLETELY within her rights to say that, especially after dealing with that. Sure, don't send the kids to prison, but don't FIRE HER for TALKING about it.

Judge is a power mad d***head.
I have to wonder if the teacher complained about having to watch over a bunch of future "tea party wackos" or some other similar comment if we would be having this discussion or if the judge would have ruled the same way. Call me a cynic, but I don't really think so.
0 Votes
+ -
Kneejerk Reactions
dougr.adams@... 16th Nov
Just goes to show you that even Judges are guilty of kneejerk reactions to something as trivial as a Facebook comment to her friends. Seems like freedom of speech is going out the window in our country, when a comment on Facebook ends up in the courts!
0 Votes
+ -
Unreal
elwissg 16th Nov
You know the old saying,"If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all," Well, it definitely applies here. Lesson for the day for this first grade teacher.
She should sue the parents of the thieving student for theft, and the parents of the attacking child for assault and battery.
Administrative Law Judge Ellen Bass needs to be disbarred and banned from ever holding another government position. She clearly violated Jennifer O???Brien???s 1st amendment rights.

O???Brien has the right of expectation of privacy among her friends. Those who forwarded her comments violated that right. This seems to be a frequent occurrence among Facebook users, as well as users of other social media sites; and is a sign of ignorant, rude, and thoughtless people. Their names should be posted in billboard sized print as being untrustworthy.

O???Brien needs to be immediately reinstated in her job. None of her comments fall into the realm of libel, as they were not directed to specific individuals (at least according to the article.) Not to mention that her statements were 100% true. Disruptive students, violent students, and larcenous students all qualify perfectly for the description of future criminals.

But of course this judge and the parents are too stupid to what really needs to be done, and that is to address the unacceptable behavior OF THE STUDENTS!
Give the teachers back their wooden paddles and " Let ;em GO !!!!
It wasn't the action of the teacher that created this incident, it was the action of "a fraction of those forwarded it on to others ". The board simply cannot penalize her for the actions of others. Take all of the emotion and whether she was right or wrong to express her opinion out of it. Simply stated, the "incident" that caused the issue was not an action that she undertook. Let's see if they can fire the ones that forwarded it....

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix