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Dell's Throttlegate: Is a defect turning a 2.2GHz CPU into 100MHz?

By | December 1, 2009, 8:32am PST

Summary: A growing number of users on Web message boards have been complaining about “inexplicably aggressive” throttling policies on Dell Latitude E6500 and E6400 laptops.

A growing number of users on Web message boards have been complaining about “inexplicably aggressive” throttling policies on Dell Latitude E6500 and E6400 laptops.

According to a Slashdot reader, the throttling is restricting CPUs to less than 5 percent of theoretical maximums at room temperature.

From NotebookReview.com forums:

My E6400 has been suffering overheating problems with the current hot weather (over 30C degrees). When the machine overheats it begun to throttle to 75% then to 35%. Once it reached 35% the machine is extremely slow (much slower than normal 35% in power saving mode), it like the machine is put in the safe mode and it won’t recover once the temperatures drops i.e. ACPI, & cpu =40’s & NVS160 = 60’s. The only thing fix the problem is to shutdown the machine & wait for few minutes and restarting the machine. Anyone have had experienced similar problem? I am suspecting the ACPI is triggering the machine to throttle.
I was able to replicate the problem and here is the temperatures the machine begun throttling
ACPI = 78C, Core 0 = 61C, Core 2= 72C, NVS 160 = 80C HDD = 45C
P8400 -> core speed = 1600MHz, multiplier = x6 bus speed = 266 MHz, FSB =1064MHz
BIOS = A11

Another from the same forum:

Dell has aggressive CPU throttling in the BIOS. I have an Inspiron 6400 w/ Core 2 Duo 1.83ghz. In XP, Vista, and 7, it would throttle way the heck down and not turn the fan all the way up. Because the fan was annoying. It would go down to around 200mhz.

From forums on Dell’s own site:

We initially suspected RAM when our issues started. But the memory that came stock with the laptops (Elpida) passed all tests we put it through. For good measure we got a 2nd brand from Dell (Hynix) with the same results. During our 20th test or so we had a system lockup outside of the Windows OS (in Symantec Ghost). This gave us enough leverage to request 10 new machines for testing (which were from a different manufacturing date). The machines that came had Samsung memory and didn’t crash after several days of burn in. We swapped out the new memory with some of our crashing laptops. Then, likewise, put the crashing laptop memory into the new chassis. The crashing laptops became stable and the new chassis started crashing; Voila!  As laptops are requested, they are manufactured in another country, then shipped as part of Dell’s Just In Time distribution method. To wit, whatever memory was in the bin to go into the laptop is what we got stuck with.

According to reader postings, the issue can be triggered by playing a video or performing another processor-intensive task.

After being banned from the Dell Forums for revealing “non-public information,” (No ban! See official Dell comment in TalkBack) one user published a 59-page report (.pdf; link currently broken) explaining and diagnosing the throttling problem in detail.

Dell hasn’t indicated any widespread problems — for now, it looks isolated but could carry potential to be a broader problem — but some users are hoping for a proper recall.

Have you experienced these issues with your Dell Latitude E6500 or E6400 laptop?

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Andrew J. Nusca is editor of ZDNet and SmartPlanet.

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Andrew Nusca

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Andrew Nusca

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Andrew J. Nusca is an editor for ZDNet and SmartPlanet. As a journalist based in New York City, he has written for Popular Mechanics and Men's Vogue and his byline has appeared in New York magazine, The Huffington Post, New York Daily News, Editor & Publisher, New York Press and many others. He also writes The Editorialiste, a media criticism blog.

He is a New York University graduate and former news editor and columnist of the Washington Square News. He is a graduate of the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism. He has been named "Howard Kurtz, Jr." by film critic John Lichman despite having no relation to him. He lives in his native Philadelphia with his wife, cat and Boston Terrier.

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RE: Dell's Throttlegate: Is a defect turning a 2.2GHz CPU into 100MHz?
mikelanday 7th Dec 2009
IMO, in the absence of reliable survey statistics, much reportage of poor reliability of Dell or any other brand of machine is anecdotal. For example, I'm now in my 8th year of working on this Dell Inspiron 8200, and have experienced no problems. Of course, I've just been lucky! Maybe I won't be next time. Mike Landay
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Just return it and get another computer from a vendor that does not sell junk. Ie: not Dell.
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Dell = Junk
ctbw 1st Dec 2009
Well, I for one don't believe Dell is junk.

Have you had some really horrible experience with Dell? For me, Dell is no worse than other computers in the marketplace.

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Not always.
edwards.wb 1st Dec 2009
And in this case they're having issues with a relatively new product line which is not unheard of from any vendor. Every manufacturer that I can think of has had their flops, and dell has had a lot in the past. Recently I've seen a lot of improvements made in the quality of Dell's products and the technical issues that they're having don't, to me, sound indicative of poor build quality and more like faulty parts from the component manufacturer.
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and please dont even speak about aopen,acer,emachine, lenovo crap. and the rest .... dell is not better nor worst that any other company .... there precision series is quite good.
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Amen on eMachines and HP...
Raymond Danner 5th Dec 2009
Quebec-french stated:
i had bad experience with dell , hp , ibm , apple and please dont even speak about aopen,acer,emachine, lenovo crap. and the rest .... dell is not better nor worst that any other company .... there precision series is quite good.

Have a HP laptop that suddenly decided it didn't have a HDD or optical drive (rendering it little more than a paperweight) and the eMachines desktop I'm currently working with has one panel off it, and has performed beautifully since I took said panel off, despite everything being absolutely clean before I left the panel off. (So far, at over 2 days continuously running, and no hiccups or sleepiness on the part of the machine. Granted, BOINC runs the CPU at 100% all the time, but that's never fazed a machine of mine before...)

What's totally puzzling is that the hardware sensors on the eMachines are all in the normal temperature ranges, yet with the panel on, it goes randomly into sleep mode and won't come out unless you unplug it from all power sources and leave it until the power light quits flashing.

Working on getting a new computer, but money's tight. So much so that I wonder sometimes whether I can cover my bills. And it is interfering in my ability to do my work, so my job's endangered, too. Thanks, eMachines and HP! Way to go!
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One of the extended warranty companies issued a report on laptop reliability (charts in article link below) and Dell came in right in the middle of the pack.

http://www.thisllwork.com/2009/11/warranty_co_discloses_laptop_failure_rate.html
I am glad this was posted! I have had an E6400 since June, and have experienced issues with it slowing down. I knew the system could vary the proc speed, but I didn't really know how to check what it was at when it was acting slow. I had my Win7 set to High Performance, and that didn't seem to matter.
It has been a problem since day-one on my Dell M1730.
It happens whether running XP/Vista/Win7 in 32 or 64-
bit version.

I have to interrupt my Windows boot and start windows
with "Disable Driver Signature Enforcement" set, so I
can run Rightmark's free CPU Clock utility and force
the machine to not throttle down the CPU. It's the
only way to stop it from happening.

I realize that this solution is potentially dangerous,
but we keep our office at 70-F 24/7 so overheating is
not a problem. I've tried to talk to Dell about this
to no avail. I'll never buy a Dell laptop again and
BTW, I'm the CIO for my company.
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Don't buy Dell
itguy08 1st Dec 2009
"I'll never buy a Dell laptop again and
BTW, I'm the CIO for my company. "

Smart move. Never, ever buy Dell.
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Never Buy Dell?
ctbw 1st Dec 2009
OK. What would YOU buy itguy08? Looks to me like Dell offers at least as good a product as others at a competitive price.
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Never Buy Dell??
Novis_z 1st Dec 2009
I've owned 10 or 12 Dell computers over the years, including 2 laptops, and never had a problem. Right now I'm using 2 desktops and 1 laptop. My experience and that of my friends who use Dell has been great. On what do you base your statement itguy08?
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An engineer who worked for me nine years ago was a consultant for Rational. As Rational consultants, he and his wife had experience with all laptop makes. The worst by far were Dells. In his team of five, they had four laptops catch fire during normal operation in one year.

Eight years ago, I joined a company that uses all Dell computers. Failures are common and cause significant loss of work time. I myself have had two hard drive failures out of three Dell work laptops. In my circle of 14 closest friends, all have had at least one hard drive failure on their Dell work laptop.
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please explain a bit further
Quebec-french 1st Dec 2009
what series where they ... pro stuff or for home idiot ... that is where the difference.

when you buy if you go for cheap home user machine dont expect a super machine .... you paid 495$ for a computer .... if you get the pro machine at 1500$ ok now you got a monster with high quality part
in less than 2yrs, it is OPTIPLEX GX620.
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please explain a bit further
phintz@... 4th Dec 2009
I agree you can not take a home user PC and try to cram it full of work based ethics and expect it to run 100%. Dig deeper in the pockets of the corperate fund for a buisness PC you might save money. I.Tees. should know this, if they don't maybe your in the wrong line of work.
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For desktops, I could not give a ****. Desktops are easy to fix, and I swim in a sea of generic parts.
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I agree on this!
Raymond Danner 5th Dec 2009
Toshiba seems to make laptops that take significant load and shrug it off, without heating up significantly. My fianc?e's Toshiba, for example, has its memory maxed out, is running Vista Home Premium, and has yet to get warm enough to be more than noticeable, despite not using a cooler mat. My HP, when it was working, got hot enough just in idle to require a cooler mat... suggesting that the HP's parts are getting way, way too hot too soon. Heck, I've had to use gloves to take the battery out of the HP, it was so hot, and that's in a room that's kept at 72F at most. Something's amiss in HP-land, I expect.

But I agree: Buying Dell is a nightmare, but more because of their India-based tech-centers than anything else. Two and a half hours on the phone for them to finally tell me the high filter was disabling the optical drives? Come on! The high and low filters in the registry would be the first thing I'd check, since it's the most likely culprit and easily fixed!
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My M1730 is fine
jdbukis@... 1st Dec 2009
Its not a common problem so I wouldnt right of dell especialy as sagar, clevo and alienware (although there dell owned) among others have problems too.

Ok its a desktop but HP have had systems with far worse problems.
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Apple's dirty little secret
snordha1@... 1st Dec 2009
I worked for a company that had a very CPU intensive video application - it could run the processor near 100% for minutes at a time. Brand new MacBook Pros would overheat in 5-10 minutes at room temp. My older Dell M90 did OK in the New Mexico desert running the same application.
We have switched over to Inspiron 6500s as our standard laptop. (BTW: Before this turns into a Dell bashing war... Been buying Dell business class hardware at other companys for 7+ years, never a problem) We got complaint that they were slower than our older machines. Checking the BIOS we found that by default the hard drive is set to quiet mode instead of performance. That helped, but it still slows down over time for our power users. So I suspect its the same problem in this article. We'll watch for updates.
Our company has THOUSANDS of Dell laptops -- that's the corporate standard. I've had 3 or 4 different models in the last 12 years, and the only problem I ever had was a bad fan on one. If I were to buy a personal laptop, Dell would be on the short list of who to buy from.

On the other hand, we do our own support, so we don't have to deal with Dell's awful offshore support too often.
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Thats Friggin Amazing!!!
nz_helpdeskguy 1st Dec 2009
"your company has THOUSANDS of Dell laptops" & only ONE failed with a fan?


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You don't read too well, do you?
JohnnyMac64 Updated - 2nd Dec 2009
"I've had 3 or 4 different models in the last 12 years, and the only problem I ever had was a bad fan on one."

He was referring to the 3 or 4 he's used over the last 12 years. Not the 1000's owned overall by his company.

BTW, my company uses only Dell laptops & hardware and they have proven very durable and reliable over the years. We are very happy with their hardware as well as their excellent support. We purchase what used to be considered their "Gold" support and the few problems we've had are always resolved quickly and hardware is replaced the next day if needed. You do get what you pay for.
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This problem is Related to a dirty cpu fan and not the problem with the software. why dont you guys try to open and CLEAN INSIDE the laptop and you`ll see how easy to FIX the problem??????

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/late6500/en/index.htm
This cannot be just a case of 'dirty dirty fan'.
do all dell laptops have the same bios based throttle mechanism or is it just hte intel based ones? i received an amd bsaed lappy soem itme ago and it doesnt have thease problems, even when max loading both the cpu and the gpu (great what you can d owith rendering programs) gotta say its more likly down to the poor quality cpu's coupled with not so compatible dimms a problem that was common in the p11/p111 era
I think eventually they will need to recall all of these laptops because of this issue.
I have a Dell workstation that is over 10 years old still running normally but recently I have seen many issues with newer Dells so their design and quality is not up to par what it used to be which is a pity.
B less expensive to distribute memory than shipping laptops.
The proof is in the pudding. I'm on my eighth Dell. One desktop and the rest laptops. Five of them are still in use - oldest one in use is from 2005, newest one in use is from October 2009. Dell equipment and support is superior to HP, Sony, NEC, Lenovo, Acer, Asus, Gateway, the list goes on and on..... Quality, reliability, consistency - unequaled in the crowded PC clone wars.
- A Computer Scientist
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Dell Response
Dell-Bill B 1st Dec 2009
Official response below. The user who composed the 59 page pdf was NOT banned.

We?re aware of concerns raised in this post. At this point, our teams are looking into the details. When we have more information to share, we?ll update customers via a post on Dell?s blog, Direct2Dell.

Bill B
Dell Social Media and Community
This might simply be an incident related to this model. I
have personally never had any problems with Dell
Notebooks. As an IT person with a prominent manufacturing
company, my department has around 25 notebooks running
around, plus my kids 1545'(x2).
I have a few words for you, DOA iMac, Leaking G5, Aweful wifi reception on second-to-newest macbooks. I do not own a dell, and I have never been fond of them, but just for you select few...

EDIT: I forgot to mention Gates was satan, Linus Torvalds is our savior, and if you agree to the Windows EULA, you will forever be Bill's towel boy in hell.
I'm the helpdesk manager of a firm with approximately 1.000 Dell PCs. Desktops and laptops. They are stable, typically run 10 years without any problems and Dells corporate service is very fine. I have tried HP and IBM/Lenovo, but they are to difficult to deal with. Too bad Dell has got problems with this series, but I can in no way recognize your bad experience. Regards, Arne R
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Dell solution is nonsense!
pikeman666 2nd Dec 2009
Parts is parts!
If you need a "special flavor" of a JEDEC-standard part, you've got BIG TROUBLE with your design.
This is BS - plain and simple!
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agree completely
pikeman666 2nd Dec 2009
I bought a cheapo Toshiba with Vista basic and added some memory and still was braced for the worst.
Never happened! It has run perfectly and I've had no trouble with Vista Basic either. The younger daughter bought herself a higher-end model and has used the heck out of it under some pretty rough conditions for three years now with zero issues other than some malware and trojans off the web.
Toshiba is good stuff.
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Surprised nobody has blamed Obama...
jasonp@... 4th Dec 2009
After all, what we're really talking about here is rationing of CPU cycles. What's next, pulling the plug on Grandma's PC?
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Not even funny...
Raymond Danner 5th Dec 2009
jasonp scribbled:
Surprised nobody has blamed Obama...
After all, what we're really talking about here is rationing of CPU cycles. What's next, pulling the plug on Grandma's PC?


This is so far from funny (or on-topic) that it adds nothing to the discussion. The problem is a defect in Dell's BIOS (or ACPI policies?) that is creating problems for many. One computer manufacturer, not all. I honestly don't see the humor in it.
IMO, in the absence of reliable survey statistics, much reportage of poor reliability of Dell or any other brand of machine is anecdotal. For example, I'm now in my 8th year of working on this Dell Inspiron 8200, and have experienced no problems. Of course, I've just been lucky! Maybe I won't be next time. Mike Landay

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